welcome back to crossfire computers about to mind you were talking about the oil embargo to be imposed on iran. ok i'd like to go back to john in iowa i mean we hear in mainstream media and politicians like to use the term carrot and stick as if iran is a donkey or something like that but this carrot and stick approach has never worked it hasn't worked for thirty years why do you think it's going to work now oh it won't work this is just the way that western diplomats talk to justify not taking effective action in syria so john when we hear it would be what would be effective actually going to war is that effective i think that's going to have to happen look my would want to bring the hidden even out of the well by doing something spectacularly destructive to enemies of islam and this is what motivates him but you know this is a guy it's not like the old soviet leadership who for all their misdeeds were at

least atheist so they believe that a nuclear war and death was an end in failure and many things dying in a nuclear war for allah will get him to paradise what incentive do you have to bring to bear on him what carrot can you offer him to compare with us so you have to be prepared to stop his military efforts if i can say to him i think there's something wrong and dangerous ok nater go ahead please do. then he has never said that he wants to die in a nuclear attack this is absolutely not true this is the kind of thing we heard from the ill informed irresponsible republican nominees like michele bachmann he said they was going to use nuclear tipped missiles to hit israel he has never said that even if he says that what the sixteen words that they quote it is he's not in charge he's not the one who makes the decisions and isn't it interesting that when he says those things they believe him when he says we don't have nuclear bombs we don't believe it so we just selectively cherry pick what we want. that it really should have no look he says listen he says i'm going to writers or any sense

doesn't and you can evolve why don't you marry him he later on he wants to wipe out israel which is what for a country that has a tad anybody now we only drop to the most harmful nation this kind of rhetoric this kind of rhetoric is not good for israel israel is a very strong country and it doesn't need this bibi netanyahu who looks at his kind of information that rhetoric to get reelected he being serious indeed now the people you know want to get out and like you are going to go and i'm sorry for you because it's interesting to me go ahead john jump in no because what i understood as an obvious lesson obvious why he would a law i of pro working on nuclear weapons until he has them even a ten year old child can figure that out he obviously wants to destroy issue when he was mayor of toronto and you think that he's lying about that and you sure of the law do you not me saying for domestic consumption it doesn't go into the ways that we want to charge up the military so you don't charge and you know his predecessor as president also said well why you want to know my god this is what

you want to do and when they launch you want to use well you go to sleep until they've got their ready you have to be an idiot to fall for that ok. you want to reply maybe you want to use the propaganda tool if you if you want to use the propaganda to cause threatening remarks about a country learn about it find out more about it you have never been to iran you don't speak farsi you don't even know. the cook the safeguard agreement of iran of united nation you cannot just open your mouth and say whatever you want when you haven't even studied the country isn't that irresponsible if you could teach a course really how to teach it how can you talk about it if you and other people like you decide to talk about iran and attacking iran find out more about it learn study it read about comprehensive health care agreement and i'm forty five pages not only you haven't read it i think many of the republican candidates haven't read it and they keep talking about it they don't even know what they're talking about spend the time to learn and then attack i think that's the best way john do you

want one reply to that or we'll move on may i make the comment going to jump in there go ahead. well the. relation between oil and iran's nuclear program all this story is out of all of the nuclear program the question is there is a flaw in the arguments of the united states european union and the global community about the iranians you have a weapon why the pressure on iran at a time when is there in the box stand and or could also have nuclear weapons before you put pressure on the air you will have to have even stand that it's not double stand that is before you put pressure on iran then to try to parents who it is that to relinquish its nuclear weapons or india or pakistan or north korea so we are talking here about the nuclear program.

needs a new clear out of power for electricity generation to be able to say of oil for export about a wise it will be. degraded and why and how to explore it out of oil but the iranians are among averse to. getting nuclear weapons so the question is if you put pressure on you and i put this am but i shout on isn't it on. stand. and then you can tilt ok i go back to john and i do i hear one of the things i think is really dangerous here and on both sides ok is the ratcheting up of rhetoric because when certain politicians and countries say that you know this is a red line when you know if you go over this annoy and both sides are doing the revolutionary guards ok also saying that in iran again i'm going back to you know the ratcheting up of tension here major thinks that there's

a certain point where we can keep it simmering i'm very dubious about that because there is absolutely no goodwill between the united states and iran we could have a tipping point here in the rhetoric that we hear coming out of western countries and out of iran is extremely dangerous. well i mean it depends how you look at it and if you think about dealings with hitler again as a good example if the west set red lines and then didn't inforce them according to our station of the rhineland and eventually they set a red line they had to defend with poland from a much weaker position than they would have been even a year and a half earlier so when there's a regime you're trying to contain you must not do certain things or does them you take action otherwise you let them do whatever they like and obviously that this is a recipe for getting stomped so yeah i will and i prefer to avoid war but there are things worse than war ok i mean mater what countries around planning to invade if we use the hitler example. absolutely there is no comparing iran with hitler it's this honest to the loss of millions of jews it was not is

a hollow that is going to sort of those who are your lawyer this is you have to learn to organise one pro israel again i figured i would have to do the quiet so he can least do it is this use of comparison he has been they have been used in israeli government by bibi netanyahu when the individuals like you are with other guest this is wrong this is discrediting all those jews that died in world war two and it's comparing something that is really not comparable he has said negative things about israel and i think going back to what your guest from london said once you go and criticize israel especially the regime then the wrath of the united states will come upon you with all its tools covert all over it sanctions and that's what the problem is that's what the difference between iran and those other countries are none of them have criticized israel and that's the price you pay now i'm not saying good or bad this is the decision that they don't and government has made that is the price you pay because you get at senate approval of

a bill with one hundred to zero how often does that happen and of course it was part of the military bill but at the same time it shows that if you fool around and you criticize israel does what you did so they have to deal with it and that's what the problem is it going to what you said peter. i mean as you know hard to push john you want to reply matter of saying israel anyway it's a matter of saying they should israel is going to be wiped off the bat that's not criticizing theirs i don't want to shout has denied the holocaust is that important terrorist group problems or as you know you are liable he was not in charge like that governor and gentlemen gentlemen i have no i don't i'm joking here trying to jump in now ok let me say let me if i can go to you in london one of the things that's interesting is the i.m.f. is estimated that if the if this oil gambit is played out what the european union wants to do and what iran will do in retaliation or even before is that we could see as a thirty percent oil increase in the price of oil going up and i mean in these troubled times is it really worthwhile to do that when we have the eurozone that is

tipping into recession obama's chances of pulling off a reelection if that is the price of gasoline goes up again i mean isn't this a really playing for playing with fire at a very bad time. no it was not a lot of playing with fire and i thought and it was a simple symbolic political decision to stop importing iranian oil it will have no effect on iran on the contrary it will have effect on the global economy as a whole because that rhetoric could skelly it and we saw today that the price of oil has gone up by one dollar when iran and now says that it will not go into export orders because the european union. think very clearly that if there is any escalation or any sign of real escalation i project the price of oil could go to one fifty or one seventy dollars particularly if iran feels that it will be

prevented from selling it's only and it tries to block this fleet of water was the price could go one fifty to one seventy dollars and who will be the biggest loser it is due and i could stay it's because it is the biggest you result of oil it imports twelve to fourteen million barrels a day and the second one the global economy as a whole the global economy is in the area recession the orsa decision since the thirty's any increase significant increases in the oil price will mean that the global economy will not be able to recover very quickly from the war still he says it a recession it is in now ok john ramos out of time is it's worth trying to negotiate with or you just finish with negotiations or should we still give it a try because the iranians say they want to talk still what you think twenty seconds yeah they said they want to talk but they won't stop working on their

nuclear program i think it's time we start building nuclear reactors to lessen our dependence on middle eastern oil back obama just cancel a major pipeline from canada that would have helped america develop energy independence here make planned space missions an iranian regime cannot be dealt with except for only right. very interesting discussion thank you very much many thanks my guest today in our london and in irvine and thanks to our viewers for watching us to see you next time and remember cross top rules. and. could you take three days for charges free arrangement free.

free. free. free brokers clothing videos for your media projects. are going to washington d.c. and this is the big picture you need to know this according to article two section four of the united states constitution the president vice president and all civil officers of the united states should be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of treason bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors you understand that a president can be impeached and he's convicted of treason bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors any other attempt to remove the president from office

absent of those crimes would not be an impeachment instead it would be acquitted. and her multi-millionaire republican lobbyist grover norquist stage right this guy's famous for corralling nearly every single republican in congress together to sign his pledge against raising taxes at the end of last week in an interview with the right wing national journal grover norquist called for the impeachment of president obama not for treason for bribery or for high crimes and misdemeanors not for any real impeachable offense but only because the president might raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires back to where they were during the clinton ministration to thirty nine percent as norquist said obama can sit there and let all the tax cuts lapse and then the republicans will have enough votes in the senate and twenty fourteen to impeach again grover norquist is calling for the impeachment of the president of the united states just for making millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share in taxes making millionaires and billionaires pay

just thirty nine percent in taxes instead of thirty five percent taxes so one of two things is going on here either norquist in the oligarchy works for are comparing raising taxes by a mere three to four percent to treason against america or norquist and the oligarchy he works for are telegraphing their plans to stage a corporate coup against president obama as soon as they get enough votes in the senate to kick him out of office i'm frankly not sure which is more frightening but if it is indeed the latter and norquist is calling for a coup it wouldn't be the first time in our nation's history and something when such an attempt was made against the white house by the super rich. this is general smedley butler in the one nine hundred thirty s. he was one of the most famous retired marine generals in america he rallied the bonus army on the steps of the white house all the way down to the potomac he was well liked among the veterans in one nine hundred thirty four butler was approached by a banker in manhattan a guy by the name of gerald mcguire there was

a plot in the works to throw franklin roosevelt out of office the newspapers called it the business plot mcguire wanted butler to lead an army of a half million men to march into d.c. and they were going to assemble in elkridge maryland and march to d.c. they were going to replace the elected president with a new fascistic or corporate run dictatorship mcguire knew the butler was the right guy veterans adored him they'd listen to him mcguire told butler that some of the wealthiest of people in america were putting up three million bucks and that was back in the days when three million bucks was like three billion in today's dollars and dupont remington we're going to supply the armament arms and ammunition he told mr butler or general butler this was really happening and it was supposed to go down the following year nine hundred thirty five just before the next election a couple of members of congress samuel dick steen john mccormick caught wind of it and they called butler to testify before a closed hearing with the house un-american activities committee in that hearing

butler completely blew the whistle the plot was abandoned and a year or two later here's what he told the american people about. here before the congressional committee was representation of the american people i'm sure you know to carry what i knew of activity which i believe might lead to an attempt to set up a fascist dictatorship the upshot of the whole thing was that i was supposed to lead an organization of five hundred thousand men which would be able to take over the functions of government. now butler's congressional testimony in that testimony he said that mcguire had told him that franklin roosevelt would eventually cave in to this coup because well quote you know the president is weak he will come right along with us he was born in this class that is the very wealthy and he was he was raised in this class and he will come back he will run true to form in the end he will come around as to why this needed to happen butler said about mcguire he did

not give me the name of it but he said it would all be made public a society to maintain the constitution and so forth they had a lot of talk this time about maintaining the constitution i said i don't see the constitution's in any danger and i asked him again why are you doing this thing names were named in the hearings the rockefeller's the melons the morgans the du ponts the remingtons but they all denied it and since these were some of the wealthiest most powerful people in the united states the whole plot was swept under the rug but all the documents are out there we almost had a corporatist revolution in america and that was when the elite were reacting to truly revolutionary change i mean roosevelt was actually putting major new regulations on the banks he had jacked the top income tax rate up from twenty five percent to sixty three percent he was he this is the wagner act allowed for unions is pushing for unions the whole new deal social security the rich definitely had something to worry about today however it's about

a minor tax increase today's oligarchy have an edge contacted our erik prince at blackwater to march on d.c. at least as far as we know but thanks to the supreme court they don't need to they can now buy our elections lol again majorities in congress and stage a much quieter coup the kind of coup the grover norquist seems to be calling for it's looks like the business plot has returned i'll have more on this on another side of this story in tonight's daily take. so why is it that of the time of extreme hardship for the majority of americans of forty nine million people in poverty and half of all americans belonging to the working poor it's the super rich who think they're the ones under attack it's the super which with multi millionaire lobbyist like grover norquist who want to impeach the president over a tiny tax increase is the super rich who yell socialism when the president calls

for an end oil subsidies or more regulations on wall street we seem to be living in a bizarre alternative universe universe where the super rich with the help of the republican party in a few we're democrats have become the true victims of the great bush depression so how did this come about joining me now is a man who's extensively studied this exact issue thomas frank is an author journalist and columnist for harper's magazine whose new book is pity the billionaire are times swindle and the unlikely comeback of the right thomas welcome it's great to be here tom good to see you again. this this is really quite extraordinary the militant malt multimillionaire lobbyist grover norquist. calling for the impeachment of the president because he and his rich buddies are the victim yes that's right president we're all a see that's exactly right that's the word that's if that's what they are i don't know if they think something like that sincerely but there's a nuff of that kind of stuff out there in the culture that i'm able to create

a whole book called pity the billionaire about this you know this phenomenon this is a complete inversion of your usual sort of hard times symbolism ok so do they believe it and are they trying to sell it to average working people and our average working people by and they do believe this goes back to the very beginning of the tea party movement the very beginning of the obama administration they believe that they are the producer class or the job creator class if you will and that the rest of america is essentially some sort of parasites it's this is the all the symbolism from the one nine hundred thirty s. sort of reversed but otherwise it seems exactly the same it's actually old frank capra movie or something well it's actually the narrative that was shrug yeah that you going to really is that's right you've got this is this wealthy brother and sister who inherited their money from their parents and the railroad and all the workers are parasites one of the characters in atlas shrugged actually says at one point in the book that the that the rich the tycoons the captains of industry are

the greatest victims of society you know because society dares to tax them and to make them obey all these laws and that sort of thing on this is this is the book is it eric cantor or of there's a whole bunch of republicans that i mean they are all their staff and that's right i mean it might be paul ryan it's what all right if that's who it was who's most famous for this. compared to spasso generations of the super rich i mean we've we've ever since i think the first person actually have a net worth of over a million dollars in today's dollars and seven hundred ninety most of the really rich left during the revolutionary war is jimmy carter well it's not really only good but compared to past generations of the super rich are today's rich with its you know they're on it they're on a kind of one nine hundred centuries. we've rediscovered the heights of you know the great days of the vanderbilt's and the ghouls of the robber yeah that's exactly right that's the old term for it by the way and one of the sort of many like strange little themes of pity the billionaire people trying to debunk the idea of the robber barons in fact those people were you know wonderful job creators. in

their day i've had i've had libertarians on the show say you know all we need to fix america is to go back to the seventy's so this is their moment this is their moment i'm going to tell you why i mean this is we sit here and talk about this it is happening before our eyes there's no doubt that this is happening that this stuff is going on the question that i tried to answer and pity the billionaire is why how did they do it and what i finally came up with was instead of doing this sort of heavy handed thing like the smedley butler the coup attempt in the thirty's and various other things that the that the ultra rich tried in the one nine hundred thirty s. all of which failed you know that's their nightmare decade what they're doing this time around is they are deliberately mimicking the other side they're acting like the voters are me out there you know the tea party march on washington in twenty nine they're acting like the you know like huey long they're you know one of the funnier things that a little bits of evidence that i found when i was writing pretty to be in there was this discussion board where various conservatives were talking about the song

brother can you spare a dime and they saw this song as a protest against franklin roosevelt kidding. and it's and it was a joke an area where did john rockefeller's appeal. here and really shiny. the while. the great depression led to a revolution called the new deal. why has this great depression or small depression not yet led to a revolution or is it possible that we voted for one in two thousand and eight and we said we didn't get it yet now and that's why we got so many because look it's two things one first of all is that the right got there first with the most money and they set up a fake populist movement and they they they did a real good job mimicking the real deal you talk about the libertarians that you have on your show they did it let's have it till they did a really good deal building a fake mass movement a fake populist movement and then the other side of the coin is that look the democrats totally dropped the ball they let the victory of two thousand and eight slip through their fingers there's just no there's no doubt about it this was

a populist moment and their idea was to do you know clinton to you know it to triangulate come to some kind of grand bargain you know do all the things that democrats did in the one nine hundred ninety s. they did not seem to understand that this was that this was a replay of the one nine hundred thirty s. kind of situation and they completely missed it let's let's let's hope they catch it the next two they need they don't they're screwed i mean i'm with you thomas thanks so much for being with it's my pleasure as always your new book i'm looking forward to reading your writing is brilliant always really is very kind of things. and coming up later tonight the occupy movement squared off with police this weekend in oakland and washington what happened and how does it affect the movement's efforts going forward also the california state legislature voted friday on a single payer health care or medicare for all bill how they will go where there are any surprises and what does the result mean for similar efforts around the nation and mortgage giant freddie mac. is betting on your economic failure what are we doing and how did

a once public agency turn into a monster. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right. i think from a beautiful point well. we never got that that says they're going to keep you safe get ready because you give them your freedoms.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harkin welcomes a big. mass

arrests chemical weapons and nationwide solidarity the occupy wall street movement has what's the big story is the big story of the weekend and so too was how hundreds of americans were screwed out of their constitutional rights to free speech and assembly more than four hundred members of the occupy movement were arrested saturday in downtown oakland as riot police used flash bang grenades chemical weapons and less lethal rubber coated steel bullets cracking down on an attempt to occupy a long abandoned city building an unknown number of patriots were hospitalized with injuries after the assault by oakland police at least four journalists were arrested the most since mayor bloomberg midnight raid on zuccotti park last november all in all it was an ugly day in oakland saturday but the nationwide

occupy wall street movement rebounded on sunday with solidarity marches across the nation within just twenty four hours marches were nice and least twenty seven cities in america from denver to to boston. new york city unfortunately many of these peaceful marches also ended in a rests and in washington d.c. today the nation's oldest and largest remaining occupations are in danger themselves of being a victim at the behest of republicans in congress like former criminal darryl the national park service told demonstrators have been occupying two spaces in downtown d.c. for months but they have until noon today to remove any camping gear or face immediate arrest deadline came and went without a vision when the sun goes down in the ban on sleeping goes into effect things could get ugly for the latest on all these coast to coast events and what the state of the occupy movement is after a tumultuous weekend i'm joined from oakland by susie cagle freelance journalist and contributor to the guardian and here in our d.c. studios ben zucker participant the occupy d.c.

and eric latke latke also participant with occupy d.c. and the author of the book twenty forty four the problem isn't big brother it's big brother inc welcome to all three of you glad to have you with us susie if i may start with you what happened in oakland over the weekend and what was the problem primary cause for. occupy oakland was that was trying to take over and be ended city owned building the kaiser article i am one hundred year old building and police clearly knew that that's where protesters wanted to go they wanted to take of the things you create a political and community center out of kind of replacement where the tent camps use you need to occupy and i at least just we're not going to allow that day i am and they resigned it with its dad's tear gas when less lethal projectiles went flash bang grenades and i have your mission is that when all day until that mass arrest action around seven pm so here in the san francisco chronicle today the.