but the digits of both that the larger numerals beyond those five digits will continue to count just like the odometer in a car. the you talk about these small cycles within the larger cycles i forget the name that you attach to them. that run the last one began around three thousand b.c. do i have that right. yeah i mean it's essentially the maya kept track of days months of periods of three hundred sixty days sort of a solar year twenty times that and four hundred times that they also kept track of eight thousand. year periods that eight thousand year period essentially comes to an end up fairly soon and. that's the digit that will increase what's known as the peak to. when is

a total of thirteen four hundred year periods comes to an end on december twenty first is there any correlation it seems like that's almost the period of time from from the time that biblical scholars of those words go in the same sentence in this context say the world began you know the adam and eve story began or something like that you know somewhere between five and eight thousand years ago do you think that there's. you know is there an astral astronomical correlate here that other people in other religions and other cultures were observing. you know to tell the truth we don't actually know why the maya calendar starts when it starts mainly because the my themselves didn't start writing down the calendar with this notation until the night bach tunes so i mean eight bach to really so that you have eight four

hundred year periods that have passed without anyone writing these things down and then for the first time you get to look at it they're already into the eight hundred year period and all of the writings that we get from them from the classic my period fit within the eight nine into very few into that and bach tunes so it's really about an eight hundred year period that we get their writing in so why they chose that day we don't actually know other than to say in a very basic sense when you start a calendar system it's very important for that system to reach back into time beyond the point where anyone can remember because otherwise you're faced with the question you can't just start on day one for example again it's a new calendar today today is day one because someone is bound to ask me what

happened yesterday and i say oh that was right then ok let's say today is day two and they said no what happened last week all right fine that's day negative six you can't really work that hasn't the french tried to do with the french revolution and what paul plot tried to do by resetting his calendar to day zero and you're right it didn't work out so well for the want to quit a quick question i had just at their set so back far back in the past that no one could ever possibly know. just a very quick question do you think it's possible because we just have a minute left here it is possible the people who are constantly predicting the end of the world from the crazy minister that we had just a few weeks ago to saint john. that they're really projecting their own concern about their own mortality on to the on of the world canvas. certainly i mean that's all predictions to the end of the world are essentially a lose lose prediction when either it's the end of the worlds and no one knows you're right because the world is ending or you're wrong and the world goes on and

you're just the latest person to predict the end of the world so as times go bad for people in various societies we tend to look for reasons for earth it's a sign of something greater perhaps something big happened trying to make sense and you're right dr since arnold thanks thanks so much for being with us i appreciate your joining us tonight happy to be here now everything you know about the end of the world and the mayan prophecies is right. right wing politicians and their banks their buddies have dealt the same terrible hand of michigan as they have to greece when it comes to economic troubles the

united states hasn't quite reached the disaster scenario the greece finds itself in the greek economy is contracting while the u.s. economy is growing the unemployment rate in greece is eighteen point eight percent in the u.s. it's officially eight and a half percent what a lot better shape than they are economically at least but when it comes to democracy in many cases we're actually worse off than greece the financial times is reporting today that greece's finance ministers the top the lead story greek fury a plan for you controlled by the greeks greece's finance minister angrily rejected a plan by the european union to put in place a budget commissioner to oversee how the greeks prepare their next budget basically the e.u. is telling greece that if they want more bailout funds then they're going to have to let some unelected technocrat come in who has the power to veto tax and spending decisions made by the democratically elected greek government as in we can't trust

you guys draw on your own country so we'll do it for you now is the germans who proposed this plan the greek finance minister said no way arguing it would improperly forces country to choose between financial ins assistance and national dignity greece has been through a lot including watching their prime minister be forced out of office by european technocrats last year and be replaced by a bank but where they draw the line is giving up the right to set their own budget to determine their own priorities as a nation and not let some budget commissioner come in and tell them what they can do what they can't do unfortunately the same can't be said about the united states . those budget commissioners that the greek finance minister rejected they're already in place in michigan thanks to a radical right wing financial managers law passed by michigan's republican governor rick snyder last year he now has the power to put in place crony buddies

if he is to take over cities in michigan that he deems are in a financial emergency the so-called emergency financial managers are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and have in norma's power they could fire local elected officials they can break contracts especially union contracts they can sell off the city's assets like hand over a public park to a trans national corporation to build a chemical factory or a condo or in the case of benton harbor michigan a city on lake michigan or a ninety acres lake michigan waterfront park a part of the commons that's enjoyed by mostly low income kids in a minority neighborhood has been sold off by want to governor snyder's financial dictators to real estate developers want to build a golf course resort for affluent white neighbors across the river to enjoy and worse these republican crony dictators can completely redo local budgets without any input by local elected officials just like what the greeks are afraid of so far rick snyder has put four cities in michigan under the control of his republican

crony buddies ben harbor a course pontiac in flint and michigan's biggest city detroit is next on the list to be taken over and looted i asked a few michiganders on my show earlier this month what life is like in that state under the financial managers life was horrible this is a state takeover of the city of detroit flint been harbor. does not count it's not in void i mean we voted for our mayor we voted for city council we voted for city commissioners and now our vote doesn't count what's it like to live under tyranny what's it like to live under a dictatorship how about no police officers. how about limited firefighters how about taking streetlights out of cities so that people are in the dark from five pm to roughly about eight zero how about living with low morale in despair it's despair and it's come to the states of america as the york times columnist ross

douthat pointed out last year when technocrats began taking over in europe democracy may be nice in theory but in a time of crisis is the technocrats who really get to call the shots this is just one component of how the ruling elite the banks toure's the transnational c.e.o.'s and the politicians they all are keeping power in america despite crashing our entire economy a few years ago we need to say enough is enough democracy can withstand a crisis in fact it's really the only way we're going to get out of this crisis it's time to trust we the people to make our own decisions again and not protect the crabs the dictators and the tools of the global banking system who want to take us back to the dark days of feudalism before american democracy change the game that's it for the big picture tonight for more information or to see any segment of our show check out our website at thom hartmann dot com and don't forget democracy begins with you show up get active participate your it will see them.

more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. china operations are on the day.

welcome to the lone show where you get the real headlines with the mercy or can you live in washington d.c. it's not going to take a look back at what happened in oakland this weekend as more than four hundred people were arrested and occupy actions so is the beginning of more showdowns with police or is this just a one off then secretary defense leon panetta gave an interview to sixty minutes the aired this weekend so we're going to break down some of his words and we're going to take a look at other foreign policy goings on turns out we're still flying drones over iraq and afghan president hamid karzai is planning on meeting with the taliban and

saudi arabia so we'll see if that's his way of shutting the u.s. negotiations a guitar and a greek debt deal has been stalled once again get more details on what this could mean for the u.s. for artie's war and lyster host of the capital account we're going to all that and more few tonight including it as of happy hour but first take a look at the mainstream media has decided to miss. it so this past weekend sixty minutes aired an interview with secretary of defense leon panetta now it was a good sit down with the former cia director that covered a pretty wide range of topics some of them highly important if you ask me how the mainstream media however didn't really pay all that much attention to what he said and in fact i'm pretty sure that c.n.n. was the only network that even bothered following up on some of the secretary statements this morning from what we saw and for some reason their take away was that the following line of panetta as was really wild and shocking. beyond that is creating some international buzz he says he remains convinced that someone in

pakistan's government must have known that osama bin laden was hiding in that country what do you know about the rifts between our country and pakistan and is it getting any better these types of statements from u.s. officials like defense secretary leon panetta certainly won't help especially statements that can't be substantiated certainly a man in his position if he makes a statement like that it's going to create a lot of buzz and that's what's happening in the pentagon backing off from that statement in an effort to mend these very fragile relations. aren't so considering that panetta then reiterated that this wasn't based on any fact this was just his opinion and then the pentagon had to walk it back that's an opinion also it's been repeated about a million times over at this point firstly i would have chosen that as the only clip worth talking about far from it in fact you see one of the most telling parts of this interview with scott pelley was who conducted it was when he decided to ask about the obama administration's killing of anwar lucky the u.s.

citizen who was killed in a drone strike in yemen last year and we found out through various leaks that there was a secret legal memo that justify the president ok in the killing of a u.s. citizen without due process although of course there are memo remain secret and according to other reports it will remain so even when attorney general eric holder gives an address counting the national security efforts of this administration now you guys know how i feel about this that was a sad and scary day for what we know as the constitution and the rule of law in this country and yet with the exception of perhaps scott pelley nobody else in the mainstream media really seems to care all that much so just take a listen to what the secretary defense said when he was questioned about the legality of such a move despite the fact that this person may be a citizen he is first and foremost a target to threaten sort of people and for that reason we can establish a legal basis on which we ought to go after that individual just as we go f. . bin laden just as we go after other terrorists why because their goal is to

kill our people. our and so did you hear what panetta said there despite the fact that a lot he was a u.s. citizen he was first and foremost a terrorist and that's ok to essentially consider him a citizen or it's give you except to essentially not consider him a citizen anymore because his goal is to kill our people now there are a number of issues with that statement that should concern everybody out there let's not forget that the obama administration has never released any of the evidence that they say they have to prove that a lockie was playing an operational role in planning any al qaeda attacks against the u.s. as far as we know a lot he was indeed very vocal in the videos that he posted on you tube but that alone doesn't make you a terrorist so all that we can get from fanatics answer here is that the evidence doesn't matter due process in a courtroom to prove the evidence doesn't matter if the government calls you a terrorist they can kill you and the rest of us are just supposed to take their word for it b.c. if it didn't and there. this person wanted to suddenly raise questions about

whether or not they're terrorists and they were to return to the united states of course they would be entitled to due process that that's something we provide every u.s. citizen and for that matter frankly any terrorist who's a rested we provide due process to that individual as well but if a terrorist is out there on the battlefield and a terrorist is threatening this country that person is an enemy combatant. and when an enemy combatant a whole should go to church. you fire back. all right so here we have numerous other problems that with leon panetta statements he says that if a locket wanted to return to the united states to raise questions about his own terrorist label then he would have been entitled to due process big problem with that logic is something that glenn greenwald also pointed out today at salon dot com is he there were never any charges brought against a lock in a courtroom the only reason that we even found out that was on an assassination list is because it had been leaked not because the administration openly said it so

how are we supposed to return to the us turn yourself in if you don't even know that you're being targeted and if you have no court room to question it tell us also not forget the statement made by panetta that any terrorist arrested is provided due process well that's just false how about so many of the detainees that are still being held at guantanamo bay the president deemed fifty of them on tribal early on many have been cleared and yet are still being held at gitmo and if you want to claim that it's because they were apprehended on a battlefield and not right here in the u.s. then where do you draw the lines for the battlefield this is part of the problem the dangers of this overly expansive global war on terror is that anything can now be deemed a battlefield by the administration i mean here's one more little tidbit for you today you know and v.a. the president signed on december thirty first of last year the one that codified indefinite military detention into law well it's already being applied to legal rationale take the example of a guantanamo havey as case. versus obama now if you go to the la fere blog today

you're going to find the government's legal argument for his attention affirming the author already of the president to detain any person who was part of or substantially supported al qaeda the taliban or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the united states or its coalition partners now that is the language of the n.d.a. so saying that is by no means shocking but just so you know it's already being used so there you have it books not only some blatant missing from. nation coming from the secretary of defense but really poor rationale that essentially says that if we say someone's a terrorist we can kill him and we'll never have to provide the evidence that i'm so happy that scott pelley actually asked him those questions we need more journalists asking those questions but despite everything that was said the complete lack of respect or adherence to the constitution and the laws put in place the promise due process the mainstream media didn't even blink don't stead they chose to miss.

all this weekend oakland once again became the scene of a massive confrontation between occupy protesters and police after an effort to occupy former convention center in the city protesters relator corralled in front of a y.m.c.a. where more than four hundred people were arrested that includes at least six journalists not of thus far now the day once again saw oakland police using flash grenades and rubber bullets but are also reports of vandalism by those in the crowd and today the national park service gave the occupiers here in d.c. a deadline to remove camping supplies although as of yet we haven't seen any massive clashes so it is the action in oakland over the weekend i mean we're back to the events of last fall joining me from oakland is susie cagle freelance journalist and cartoonist who has herself been arrested at the occupy oakland protests there susie thanks so much for joining us again tonight like us i know that you were arrested back in november we spoke to you then i know that you were arrested there on site and then released last night but if we first can step back

and just talk about how it is that all of this exactly happened can you give us some details. sure i live there are reports there that are circulating really jumbled the timeline so it started with my oakland planned move in day to take this i'm used to convention center one hundred hundred year old historic building i am downtown and i'm and take it and use it as a political and community center and i they were thwarted at every turn police clearly knew that this was the goal of the march and they knew just how to walk a crowd of about eleven with thousand i would say between one and two thousand and day when protesters i've pushed down some of that chain link fence in front of the convention center many yards away from police things were thrown many yards away from the police fired tear gas into the crowd and the crowd dispersed.

back to downtown where these sort of skirmish street battles kind of continued and there were flash bang grenades there are less lethal projectiles and all of those those weapons that we became i was so familiar with back in the fall that haven't really seen in a while in outland and as the day wore on. people kind of regrouped for a little while and then i decided to go for a plan b. another building or potentially several buildings that could possibly have been taken for this purpose since they've been guarded from that convention center i and that march only went on for about two hours before police finally i pedaled everyone by the y.m.c.a. surrounded them on all sides i gave notice first order that i could hear and that's where i myself and five other journalists were were

a mistake at all and we were told we were we were being detained along with along with the occupiers so did you did you tell them i'm press did you show them your credentials was a very obvious to the police that they are arresting members of the media. it was incredibly obvious i and i. because i had been through this before just a few months ago i'm certainly more outspoken. than i was last time i demanded a sergeant and still i was handcuffed for forty minutes and i was told that i had to press that is i had my open lease department i issued a press pass and also had a press pass for the freelancers skills that i am a member here in california and i'm my oakland police department has expired four weeks ago the end of two thousand and eleven because they only get them out for a calendar years even though it had for weeks it was already already expired and

they told me because that that. has expired you aren't press tonight or you think that they you know i mean oakland itself has been giving has been given a really hard time the police department there for arresting journalists we've seen a lot of journalists arrest all across the country since the occupy movement really sprang up and just last week we saw on this you know world press freedom index of the u.s. dropped twenty seven spots because of that so you would think that maybe they would be a little bit more careful but so i guess i also have to ask you know who was really making up the crowd yesterday because we've seen in the past too in oakland there were. some cases vandalism there were some so-called black bloc tactics you could see and so you know what was the crowd like yesterday. i think many people i came came prepared for a street battle and many people came prepared with. shields and plastic garbage cans cut in half metal garbage cans corrugated metal and wood shields as

well and many people were amassed and i and many people were fully covered head to toe and many people weren't i it's it's i find it troubling to make really broad generalizations about such a large group of people based on the few that are its rights and are throwing things so what do you think my happen next right because we've seen things simmer down a little bit with the occupy movement we've seen some more targeted actions and yet we're still in the middle of winter only three are here on the east coast i know it's not as cold there in oakland but do you feel like some of this is starting back up we're going to start seeing more of these massive demonstrations maybe even clashes like we saw last fall or was this perhaps just a one off. i think that occupy are right now because they were thwarted on this building and because they they don't you know those those tent camps weren't just

place to stay i mean they were a political center a meeting ground zero and now occupy all of the occupations they don't have that and so i think that building occupations are going to take on a much more important role in the movement in the future and i think that if that's where and that's where occupy really expense resources spends time i think that that could be the next really interesting step even though it's going to be nice outside at least here in california it was a gorgeous day on saturday i think that that's really going to be important for the future. now we get our so see how some of the attitudes are changing marriage in quiet of oakland for example told the protesters to stop using the city as their playground and i found quite interesting headline on the fox nation website today when i was looking at it and they try to tie this to obama's state of the union address and they asked did obama's class warfare rhetoric spark occupy riots in

oakland i don't know what do you think of that. i know that. people occupiers and certainly no fans of obama but i do think that they were proud of the state of the union address and i think that we all heard some occupy influence on it. i i think that. is getting a lot she's getting a lot of heat from people over occupy from both sides of things people who thought that that kick tent camp should never have been established and people who thought that that first tear gas canister should never end problem and the recall campaign against her is actually being led by that more conservative faction so i think that she is trying to work to i have two keys those people more than she is trying to appease people who are i agree about all of the police brutality that we're seeing are it's easy well thanks for joining us and giving us all the details there.

well today here in d.c. all eyes are on the pearson square and freedom plaza to see if the occupy movement makes it through the day to last friday it was announced of the two encampment to be facing eviction today because of unsanitary conditions and increasingly hostile attitude from mary gray congress itself is something we touched upon last week when we discussed our isis committee's hearing on how the candidates been able to stand for so long in a public park officials have now decided to enforce a no camping rule both of the parts so basically that would require all camping materials to be removed and for one side of any temporary structure in the parks to stay open notices of the news policies went up over the weekend and when occupiers brian last tried to remove one from the camp meant he was tasered by d.c. police. the joint. thank you. so much.

he was originally arrested on charges of disorderly conduct but has since been released we see sunday's actions are simply a prequel for tensions at the park today where the media was waiting with cameras rolling all to see what police would do after the new deadline was set and protesters made it clear that they were going to leave and they constructed a tent of dreams around the macpherson square statue. here in the clear city squares a symbolic protest and we're dreaming of a better world and by not letting us sleep they're not letting us dream and that's what the police have ordered us to do we're allowed to stay here but we're not allowed to sleep here but sleeping is an integral part of our protest and so if they're not letting a sleep they're not letting us dream of a better world. occupiers continued their peaceful protest for dancing chanting familiar phrases like this is what democracy looks like right now police have not made a move yet your mood.