very greek party leaders will gather again to resume talks on a one hundred thirty billion euro new grass keep that comes after a meeting on sunday ended without any deal reached the country's prime minister because part of the u.s. is seeking support for tough reforms as a condition for the bailout to avoid default greece used to secure the package by march. three story factory building has collapsed in eastern pakistan killing one person five people had been called out with one hundred others believed to be trapped under the rubble rescue officials say the structure caved in one on a gas explosion the building used to manufacture pharmaceuticals was a catered in a residential area. in the u.k. queen elizabeth the second is celebrating her diamond jubilee of sixty years and throne she is in the second the british monarch to have reached a milestone after being crowned at the age of twenty five a gun salute is being held in hyde park to mark and celebrations taking place in

poured a banquet a june rather u.k. may be celebrating coming up later this hour on cross talk artie's people of well debates the problem faces issue of scottish independence. well look at the figures and i'm sure i'm sure the viewers will be able to judge the figures from themselves are publicly available but let's let's look at this issue the last four years because it was from the release of course the u.k. only once in the last five years i mean economic. growth is not just a lot of mean lower in scotland than the u.k. average but those those figures are going to the government ok gentlemen i'm going to be one of the reasons why it's me gentlemen let me jump in here david i guess is we're going to see interlopers here ok this is look like these two people should be together and all of the different the. democracy has become a profitable export for one international group it started off as a student movement in serbia but with the backing of the us became

a worldwide brand for revolutions what is this a company investigates. this is the business of selling a lot of sky high heels barely there clothes revolutionary styles exported from the fashion capitals of the world hello i'm out of. my reach and this is the business of selling well revolution it's fashion exporting how to lessons and revolution aided by the democracy capital of the world democracies after all aren't born knowing how to run themselves a decade ago merivale launched the serbian student movement that helped oust president slobodan milosevic. the group was called out for resistance and it bore the now familiar symbol of the clenched fist but behind the spontaneity of the uprisings was a carefully researched strategy guided by the west no boy somalia is

a balkans columnist who's been chronicling the events in serbia since one nine hundred ninety nine the or poor movement itself was just a tiny student organization that it got subverted taken over the operatives then expand it. turned it into a branding empire and ended up basically one ing the ground the grassroots level of the revolution thus turning it into an astro turf war they were run by the anybody which very openly goes in and says our goal is to promote democracy a new york times investigation documented the extent of u.s. assistance according to journalist roger cohen poor was no ramshackle students group but a well oiled movement backed by several million dollars from the us the objective is regime change the objective is to install a government that will execute orders the worst thing about all of this is that it's undermining a concept that enabled the united states to claim moral leadership in the world in

the first place with milosevic gone i've in marriage now spends his time advising activists abroad ever since i've been traveling the world and teaching people how to get rid of their pesky dictators so you come up with these three easy steps so you too can get in on the action and laugh your way to freedom the video was made by students at the school of authentic journalism in mexico for narco news t.v. but ivan has helped develop a video game called a force more powerful and which players can practice scenarios like organizing mass protests and overthrowing dictators today are poor is called canvas and with the help of the internet their methods and symbols are exploited the world over from the color revolutions in georgia and ukraine to venezuela and the arab spring uprisings in egypt william engdahl has written for over thirty years about washington secret geopolitics he's convinced that canvas is not acting alone the instigators of those so-called spontaneous protests was twitter revolts in cairo

and tunisia and so forth have all been pretty organized and should you assume some of the people leaders of the protests have been trained in belgrade in serbia by all poor activists find. for the rest of the people. this thing has the state department u.s. intelligence all over it three easy steps and that's all it takes to overthrow your very own government so this revolution become a commodity a product that could be branded popish mass produced an export of all across the globe well just like ivan's video this too of course is a spoof but the game of regime change is quite real and its unintended consequences can be downright dangerous. for the american taxpayer i think who's getting. the short end of the bargain because there are there are bankrolling people that are going around the world for mentoring astroturf revolutions that are eventually backfiring and they're backfiring all over the place and once the people

find out who is behind this their anger turns to the american government and the american people once we're bus service you can be good. and easy recipe but the aftermath may be the hardest to see catherine of our washington . at that time to cross over to our business desk now but. twenty four minutes past they are you watching business r.t. russia's gazprom has acknowledged reduced gas supplies to european customers over the weekend the firm's deputy head under a cruel goal of knowledge the cows giant had to cut deliveries to some european countries by as much as ten percent and this is against the backdrop of unusually cold weather in europe it boosted fuel demand in some countries to the highest

level in years austria poland and six others claimed last week they were getting below the amount of gas specified in their contracts earlier gazprom blamed the ukraine for taking more fuel from the pipes the guys monopoly now says it's restored supplies and fall but it's still struggling to meet the increased european demand. the current period of profound economic change has some talking about the new world order who will be the winners and losers marcus troil the head of a brazil based think tank the center for business diplomacy offers his verdict that we're in the midst of a transition phase what are the elements in disposition phase that i think will shape the world. very straight very strong state owned enterprises from brazil russia india china a renewed innovative capacity in the us in knowledge intensive sectors they will create new facebook's new google's new microsoft and that is going to be good for

parts of the american economy it will also widen the gap between the nose and the know not the haves and the have nots. and i think we're going to also see a time of sacrifice in europe europe is going to have to have. goals of dynamism being inserted into its economy otherwise it's going to be stalled for a number of years. investors main focus on monday's the talks between greek and european leaders europe is waiting for athens to accept the strict new terms of a bailout deal without a greece is facing a high probability of a default in march and let's see how the markets are reacting now exchange rates first the euro is slightly lower against both the dollar and the russian ruble meanwhile the u.s. currency is gaining to the ruble this hour and now to while it's losing value on strengthening u.s.

dollar and concerns about the european debt crisis which could hinder demand right now light sweet is trading at around ninety seven a poor dollars a barrel while grant is topping one hundred and fourteen dollars and now on to equities asian shares a mixed this hour after hong kong's hang seng had soaked into the negative territory on the forecasts from the i.m.f. it lowers its estimate of china's growth this year asian equities are growing more are growing across the board for most of the trading session on better than expected u.s. unemployment rates released on friday this hour the nikkei is adding more than one percent the hang seng is down around the water percent. and the russian markets are shedding value declining oil is always a factor that russian equities have a hard time overcoming a bit of good news though global funds focused on russia tracked at around half a billion dollars in one week and that's the highest level since last april. now

the biggest movers on the my sex gazprom is in the red amid news over gas supply cut to europe meanwhile the company's says its current output is up thirty percent compared to last year's average bucking the trend is v t v it's just a notch the sour and precious metal producer paul is gold is among the best performers. now speaking out for those who. old it's posting have to gains on the back drop of sliding indices and that's after gaining a whopping thirty five percent on friday with the company's capitalization reaching almost nine billion dollars analysts mention a number of factors among them the possible merger of oil is gold and its russian rival for the metal also the company's expected to buyback around four percent of the chairs from minority shareholders. and that's all we have time for in this edition of business i'll be back in about fifteen minutes i'll see you.

culture is the same us you are going to go one hundred one with the muslim world cup difference in search of national commission and sovereignty this is what many scots say they want a realistic is an independent scotland would be of. welcome

back a second look at the headlines now back to basics the e.u. miles over fresh economic punishment for president assad syrian regime after failing to push through a polarizing win your solution. modern technology to support political activism prime minister putin goes online at his bid to improve russian democracy. wind of change in that fear of the country's russian minority hopes to win an upcoming referendum that could see. then they took language officially recognized as the

latest attempt by the russians to secure their political rights. but next on cross talk of l. asks his guest about scotland's debate over independence and how realistic it would be for the nation to go to learn. it. was. a lonely and welcoming cross-talk i'm peter lavelle in search of national determination and sovereignty this is what many scots say they want how realistic is an independent scotland would it be a viable state or is this all a ploy with the scots looking for a better deal within the e.u. . to cross-talk scotland's potential sovereignty i'm joined by david kopel in denver

he's an adjunct professor of advance constitutional law at denver university in edinburgh we have kenneth gibson he's a scottish national party politician and member of the scottish parliament and in london we crossed to william bayne he is labor m.p. for glasgow north east and shadow minister for scotland tory gentlemen crossed the girls in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but first i'd like to go to david in denver as a constitutionally legally david what kind of case does scotland have to become a sovereign state to have to express its national determination. well they have the same right that people everywhere in the world do which is the the right to rule themselves so if the people of scotland vote in a fair referendum for independence then then that would be their right just as the people of ireland with somewhat more trouble were. recognized as independent and the people of taiwan wife wise have the same rights of self-determination

everyone in the world has the right of self-determination i mean that doesn't mean they gave it doesn't mean they p.s.k. doesn't mean they get myself into a nation that doesn't mean they get self-determination does it well that the nice thing is if you're part of the united kingdom which is a. democratic nation with freedom of the press and lots of tolerance for political dissent you've got a better chance of achieving it than the people of taiwan do or the country that's trying to deny them self-determination is a rather rip aisha's imperialist nasty country that would invade them should they ever actually formally assert their what is there now de facto independence ok william i don't think that you think. assessed that england would invade scotland if and when the looks like it's a matter of time when scotland has a referendum in two thousand and fourteen to have independence what is your attitude towards that would it be a viable state is it legal is it the right thing to do. any state can survive the

question is how you prosper best and my belief is we do that better within the united kingdom there are clear benefits of being part of the united kingdom's financial system provides we know who's going to regulate the banks we have a currency which is stable we have provisions for public spending which are democratic i think there are enormous disadvantages in breaking some of those institutions up just to reform them to create a new currency union which apparently is the policy of the s.n.p. but i think we also share so much history we share welfare state yesterday m.p.'s from across the united kingdom were opposing government cuts to disability benefits to benefits for cancer patients we share the b b c we we have a great influence in the world or pearman and membership of the un security council these are great advantages that mean being part of the union and being part of britain is good for scotland ok ken if i go to you i mean i guess really the glue

the real question for you as a scot is that you know you want independence so that's why it's a good opening close case right i mean we just heard from david about go a self-determination william says that you have a mutual benefit but the scots have a voice so well that they want to go their own way and will they go their own way. we do have a voice and over the next thirty three months we'll be articulating the arguments for independent spirit scholars who in history its own traditions its own culture and we see no reason why scotland cannot be as prosperous an independent nation as for example norway the netherlands denmark so many other countries in europe which are relatively small in terms of population but are democratic have a high quality of life and high standard of living and under the. party after thirteen years of the rule the gap between a twenty percent richest and to a percent purist was a way to stay in the we see diesel i think we can do a better job in scoring will vote on resources and then what's important is that we

will take decisions for ourselves and you know not. so far as we know we know the interests of oversea increased every year go ahead william here kenneth child poverty has increased well examined has been in government it's gone up every single year the economy is growing less of less quickly in scotland in the last four years than the u.k. average and before that when there was a labor administration holiday grew more quickly so i think the picture is a bit more close that's likely issued as a so i mean this is an eating. well look at the figures and i'm sure i'm sure the viewers will be able to judge the figures from themselves they're publicly available but let's let's look at this issue the last four years it was a really soft close the u.k. only once in the last five years of an economic. growth so there's still a lot to be lower in scotland than the u.k. average those figures are going to be the sentiment ok gentlemen i'm going to jump in one of your reasons why so many gentlemen let me jump in here david i guess is was the interest here ok this is look like these two people should be together

because look at all of the different the. well just despite some is some important differences they have what's sort of sad for me as an outsider it is is how much they haven't in common when we heard. professor bain talk about what's what's so great about being part of the united kingdom he talks about the b.b.c. and the welfare state doesn't even mention the great history of great britain as the country that spread freedom in so many places in the world and including saving civilization from hitler both of them are talking about the welfare state and what i think they both fail to realise and they're there are reasonable they're good representatives of the labor party and of the scottish national party which are both more or less socialist parties and have woken up to the fact that they've run out of other people's money and that if they're trying to make this issue about

self-determination for the scottish people about who's going to more effectively fleece a to give money to be what i what i would wish they would both be talking about that is completely new this is an issue of scottish independence and i know the radio show rowing about but don't anyone have what about the people of scotland right now why why is neither of you talking about things that could bring more self-determination to the scottish people right now like letting them elect police boards the health boards have direct votes on self government. to. actually there are no a letter is like they'll have this is going to tell you where i will you to jump in go ahead william in london go ahead ok the key issue i think is growth i mean what we need to collectively as a group of political parties is come up with policies that are going to break away from the sort of get rich quick of capitalism that we've seen in too many countries in the g twenty and across the world in favor of a longer term investment in many ways our economy needs to become rather more like

germany's we need to invest for the long term we are arguing for a state investment bank that would be able to get investment into the green industries and to tourism and to other sectors i think we've got to change our whole model of growth and i think we do that best within the united kingdom rather than going through the expense and the trauma of setting up a separate state so i think that is the key response i would have to david's point i think the way that we will empower the scottish people is to have an economy that works better for them that produces more jobs and more secure more social justice as a result ok ken if there's a big argument it seems to think i'd like to ask you there's a big argument in this there's a big argument in this debate is that the scots have to be cognisant insensitive to the the sensibilities of the of the welsh and of the english of the irish do you think that's fair i mean it's incumbent upon you to convince your fellow members in the union that you want to go on your own way or do you think it's just a matter of a democratic process where you have the right to vote and you vote on independence

. well i think the issue which the united nations recognize is up to scottish people decide their own future but we are the first ones that has tried to reach out to other parts of the need to do in making it clear and independent school and very good friend to england northern ireland and wales and indeed other countries in europe we have no enemies in the world we are not a country that seeks conflict with anyone the great thing about the independence struggle in scotland is there's never even been so much as a nosebleed and i may disagree on many of the points but the argument is done through the democratic process and democratic channels and we want it's going to be independent so that we can attract and with investment but also the difference in really nice he thinks london news best for what's in schools interest we think the people of scotland know best and just as you wouldn't want your next door neighbor taking decisions on your behalf we do one angle and even with the best will in the world to take decisions on behalf of scotland and this remember is an incorporating you know it's not a union of equals scotland is very much a subordinate partner we have less than a tenth of english population and decisions political decisions will be made on

behalf of the majority within you key england and scotland basically if we make those decisions on our selves those decisions will ultimately be better for scotland whether it's a government which is left of center as a professor seems to imagine or indeed one which i believe would one that supports a mixed economy and is more social democratic rather than socialist william why not have two united kingdom as as neighbors ok as equals is you know is can it was pointing out why can't you have that you can still have the same currency if you don't throw it out throw them out of the the pound you have the same queen scotland pays for the defense issues why not equals. well i think that's a false point i mean i think that the key issue is precisely what you mentioned the economy i mean let's consider what alex salmond is proposing here his preference is for a currency union with the united kingdom now we can see across across the sea another

currency in the euro and we know what chancellor merkel last week said that for a proper currency union you need to have fiscal union taxes and spending being coordinated across the different countries within the union you also need fiscal and political union and she also said that you need a common treasury and know what is being discussed today by the n.c.a.a. agrees with this is an easier they want the better willy's base and i think of england well. as things the cd you think should be in charge in europe is that we're saying well let's you know i mean as well i would hope that i would hope that we have more stimulus or speaking as a half of the government and germany and this is an end drawing up the fiscal rules of europe as i hope that francois are all on if he wins the french presidential election this me will do but the reality is that what we've seen in the eurozone are very harsh and fierce fiscal rules and the fact is if alex salmond wins this referendum he would be doing a deal to drop similar fiscal rules with george osborne it doesn't sound much like

independence from a tory tax and spend policy to me nor indeed think it would be for the scottish people. this is no instance because the bank of scotland has been independent the chancellor says nine hundred ninety seven and did it even in previous generations when will file and under still your go independence they will still part of sterling for many years and i found that in general you jump in here gentlemen we're going to go to was short break and after that short break we'll continue or our discussion on the fate of scott stayed with.

but i think. there's. more so you are going to be on new zealand in the early ninety's so you get to them on series if you want to have sex good thanks . the closest has been to the whole bar of screen. where the country's mineral wealth starts its way across the ocean. now our team goes to the area. was named after lenin good looking to a different character to represent itself. for local businesses are striving to build the aviation capital of russia. for the four by fours are made and can be

tested to the limit. welcome to the screech of. russia close up. and. welcome back to the wrong time you know about to remind you we're talking about the independence of scotland. and. ok david if i go back to you in denver and a recent poll gives the the following numbers fifty two percent to thirty two percent english voters favored maximum devolution from scotland or independents a bigger margin of support then the. s.n.p. in scotland itself i mean it's really interesting it seems we're having talking

about it leads right here in many ways a lot of it one and one trend that is really moving in the u.k. is that the english are feeling more english and less british at least that's what some data is showing i mean is it a matter of and leads and institutions that want to keep this together and devoid to what people actually think. well i think that the opinion polls within scotland itself ok fair to show that there's very strong very strong support for even for more devolution more more scottish home rule but probably for independents per say that it only gets about a third of the support of the population which is one of the reasons why. is trying to change the voting rules to have sixteen and seventeen year olds vote but i note that the it is still all about elites in this argument because it's a question of whether you're going to have central planners in london or an edinburgh running the lives of all the people in scotland i noticed that the two other guests didn't want to talk about my suggestion that the scots could have

a much more home rule right now by letting them elect the important officials in their local governments that control their health care and the police both of these gentlemen are also for keeping scotland in the european union which is an institution which has a tremendous democratic deficit it has no legitimacy unlike say the united states constitution where our states joined together to make a true national union that was done by the people themselves acting in the conventions were as in scale the european union has been this project ever since john boehner started back in the olden days of jamming having elites jam it down on the public and they're all the elites have been consistently terrified of allowing referendums how about our scottish national party friend if this scotland achieves independence will you allow the people of scotland to vote on whether to stay in the european union and ask our labor party friend why not let the people of scotland vote on that and why not.