really know what. all the time to read will toward which way it was. but. evidently a real marriage will last four hundred thousand. jobs were lost in america's. earth big you begin which should be going to really. release you continued in a row. already and was. a miracle wanted to really destroy america really one of them. preferably a rear. also it's much more open. but i was just going to say i want to before we get to our talk i want to still go back to i know you were talking earlier about them aside and we thought last we can invent investigation by n.b.c. news that revealed those killings of iranian nuclear scientists were carried out by

israel's mossad along with the help of the iranian dissident group the emmy kay i want to play for a second something that mohammad lara johnny said he's a senior aide to iran's supreme leader ayatollah ali khamenei and i'll get your reaction we'll talk about it come through the close allies of the companies like united thank you zain is involved. in margaret who still has an obligation to prevent. to push not to do. like. the united nations with this man who is a nuisance so what do you think about this he says that you know if the united states knows that israel is carrying this out they have an obligation to take action. ok i absolutely do but only in international waters clear u.s. law is clear if you are a legitimate charity it's in the york times wrote about this same you remember star

astonishing i wrote a quarter to you ok it is absolutely astonishing new york times we charge will start with attacks like this. i have no doubt. there are a lot i imagine cie is so important to it and they use proxies any key or other if you regime forces in a really big coteries i mean this goes on all of her. we are out of time but i want to thank you so much to a lot of interesting things to talk about important also to get that different perspective than what we're seeing in a lot of the headlines in the mainstream media even one minute writer and host on the progressive radio news hour. so i don't archie is a scene that's become all too familiar on the streets of south of the past few months riots have broken out yet again for the government cost a new round of austerity measures but is the new plan enough to keep greece afloat

and what does this mean for global markets. and. what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions to create. who can you trust know what. is your view of the global reach and where are we cutting state controlled capital score.

when nobody dares to ask we do our t. question more. well it was a make it or break it decision in greece earlier today about by the parliament there on whether to approve yet another round of austerity measures and therefore pave the way for the eurozone finance ministers to move forward on a bailout plan for greece and the greek parliament did approve the austerity plan in a one hundred ninety nine to seventy four vote and included in that plan fifteen thousand public sector job cuts the lowering of the minimum wage from seven hundred fifty one euro's a month to six hundred euros a month and several other cuts also in government spending wages and pensions that are sure to have a major impact on the people there now this is it was seen as a necessity for the country to avoid default. on its debt but thousands in greece are fed up with what the austerity measures have already done to their lives than there are economy and the nation made sure that anger was known.

to the police actually estimated eighty thousand protesters turned up in the streets to protest they said more than forty buildings on fire and hurled rocks and firearms bombs that police who in turn used tear gas and arrested dozens of people the passage of the plan was seen as a major step forward but the approval of a second package will not be decided in tell at least one thing i nance ministers are scheduled to come together for a meeting now a lot of people of course keeping their eyes on what will be happening the next few days in greece and talk about what a few of these big decisions mean let's go to the capital account producer dmitri to finance dmitri you have spent some time in greece i know that we spoke to you several months ago when these protests were sort of at their height what do you imagine the people of greece that are out there protesting right now what are they trying to what message are they trying to send. i don't i don't know i couldn't possibly hope that's true i think that there's

a lot of rage that's one of the things that is clear and you said you've seen numbers when i was there and also pictures from these protests where you see. again people of all different ages different demographics men women and old people young people and they're just all incensed enraged because you have these politicians in the middle of parliament who are doing. the bidding of of the their masters and what they want to do which is why would they want. so this wednesday from what i understand there's a meeting some of the ers and finance ministers going to be getting together and approve of simming that this bailout is approved. what do you think i mean is it one of those situations where it's going to get worse before it gets better or is this kind of the beginning of you know good things to come well there in the fifth year it's a fifth year of a recession so. call it they're actually call it depression but that's where the person is if you're five years of recession no one knows when it's going to get better if i was speaking as some kind of financial analyst i would tell you no it

won't get better until you default on the debt because investors won't commit to catching falling daggers and that's what if you're investing in a depressed environment where there is such a huge debt overhang and there is no end to when the economy can recover as far as interest payments things like that then you're not going to make an investment because the bottom isn't in that's what i would say so i think that there won't be a bottom until there is a larger resolution and that resolution i think you it's what greek people mean when they say they're waiting for a bang and we're in for an explosion whether that is in a political assassination whether that's actually something that's very important because saturday on sunday a huge mass of people were gathered around a very wealthy area about and around the former prime minister's home prime minister from the ninety's they were screaming traitor and you know if they were taking him more of the police force that were there that we could before that the privy president of the republic the current president had his house in order. clearly some tensions between governments past and present and the people that are actually to imagine that you had that here in the united states some of the

president's window i forget was a few months ago and he tracked the guy down with the right few weeks or something i think it was less yeah it was even less than a big truck and that immediately they want to talk about this to me today i mean you have plenty of people on your show on the capital account who have varying opinions about what's being done in greece to deal with this nothing seems to be easy or pleasant in terms of this i interviewed peter schiff in the last hour he said you know what these cuts didn't even come close to going far enough the people of greece just agree they say their lives have been disrupted so much and the thought of having even more cutbacks. themes just unimaginable to them what are some of the people that you have on your show say in terms of what's been done over the last few months to deal with the current greater crisis what's more complicated i mean what. peter peter is correct in that greece suffers i don't think even knows how bad it is resurface from a humongous public sector that has been a drain on the economy because it's it's a it's basically

a piggy bank for politicians or for everyone else who and all the way down the line and that's how it's been even since the time of the ottoman empire there's been this ingrained mentality and kind of this idea of patronage in the political system so it's not something you but it certainly was much worse after the so greeks have been many greeks especially in the private sector jobs they've been trying to change for a very long period of time however the way that these changes are being impacted now they're not productive it's one thing to cut the public sector and to reform the government but that's not what's happening here what we're seeing here is just just slashing costs as much as possible with no real sense of of creating a sustainable economic environment but one of the biggest complaints from before in terms of you know how greece got here in the first place is a lot of people seem to think it was an option whether or not to fight to pay taxes will this change in the future i mean will there be a better regulatory system for those kind of you know the wealthier the one percent of priests who got to avoid you know within

a similar situation in what we see in other countries like the u.s. so greece that's another thing so again if this is a cultural social thing and it's very difficult to change it there's a huge problem as far as tax evasion but that's all the way down the line the system is structured so that in greece everything is illegal but everything's allowed. you can go you know i had actually a friend here that i showed a picture of the camping site no camping the sign said no camping it was full of camping you know people camping so they just the way this inside has been organized after all this period of time for you it's not as simple as people just evading taxes and that's the problem any again if people are paying taxes in greece that money would just come right through the kleptocrats of the government so it isn't that simple it's a culture that has had a very difficult time ruling itself a nation. greece is historically as a people very old as a nation state it's very new and it has kind of been pushed into these european model let's take it out of greece move it in terms of the dealings with the

eurozone in the last several months how they're dealing with greece greece is. in the eyes of many the biggest problem but it's also the first problem we're starting to see major issues with countries like portugal and italy do you think this is going to be the model sort of the way things were dealt with in terms of you know applying it to those other problem countries so we already have problems in those countries and no i agree i think so i think that if there is a commitment to take the bondholders who made bad deals there the business of a bank is to do due diligence their job is to lend money that's their business and they take the gains and they also take losses and they have to accept their losses and i won't accept their losses and this is this is the medicine we want to put on the cover than you can experience you have from portugal in other places all right and of course we know that you'll be keeping an eye on for us then helping us kind of break down what it all means capital account producer to meet your famous thanks so much as well that's going to do it for now but for more on the stories we covered go to our t.v. dot com slash usa he said also check out our youtube page we post all of our

interviews in our segments there it's you tube dot com slash r t america and of course you should follow me on twitter you can find me at christine for sound. it was the same up charge if i told her wonderful. to be sorry no shortage of austerity and the slashing of pleasure it's a misreading of the welfare state generate jobs and returns to.

the. church. shift.

hello and welcome across town people about in these hard times there's no shortage of a spirit in the slashing of budgets mistreating of the welfare state generate jobs and returns to prosperity and is the pursuit of austerity catering to the democratic. crosstalk austerity measures around the world i'm joined by people meldrum in london she is president and founder of principal alice asset management also in london we have fragged his cause philippe is he is a senior lecturer in international business at the university of kent and in new york we cross to dimitri poppy dimitrios he's the executive vice president of bard

college my focus is rostock rose and if i can use you can jump in anytime you want dimitri if i go to you first the new york can i stared to bring back prosperity because we have unemployment is a rate increase particularly in the eurozone and the prospects for employment are pretty bleak how can you have prosperity when there's so much unemployment and people would say austerity creates unemployment because of the loss of jobs in the public sector. well up linus terry the. climbing moment or a decline in economy is not the right medicine clearly asperity can only. when there is an increase in demand an increase in demand if he doesn't come from the private sector you need to come from public sector so therefore when one talks about us if you want to not be as general suggested just there if you can bring

prosperity clearly you are in an employment rate of over eight point three percent as it is in the united states cannot happen by itself on the back of private markets unless the the forecasts are sorry but the economy actually will grow but growth doesn't come automatically and we have seen that in europe as well where there would be in the southern tier southern economies in europe or even in some of the northern climates france. and also germany is actually experiencing some declining trends ok people what do you think about that i mean i mean we see our sturdy it with a vengeance in europe and we can go through southern europe are all the way up to germany the french are be experiencing it as well how can it is this the right formula and dimitri says it's not right for me and to bring us back to prosperity because a lot more and more people are just being a misery. yeah well i think look bottom line is it's really interesting people

won't agree to us territory or comply with us terry if things are getting better you kind of need to be and bad times to get people to understand how serious a debt problem is and that it needs to be addressed i mean nobody was interested in addressing the debt problem during the boom it's only during the bust the people start to understand why but it is true that austerity doesn't alone create price prosperity what does create prosperity are small entrepreneurs and this is really important two thirds of the net new jobs in all industrialized economies are created by companies that employ less than fifty people now when government is shrinking this actually does create some opportunities for the private sector and new york city recently announced that they can't afford to keep the public buildings clean anymore so they privatized their contracts so some private company got a five million dollar contract i'm all for that but it doesn't create prosperity overnight no and doesn't create prosperity by itself definitely not it's what creates it is

innovation and change but the fact is that when you have spent and you earn you can make your way back to prosperity until you fix your debt problem that's one of the reasons we can't fix that problem by adding more debt to it it just pushes the problem into the future so it's not the key to growth it doesn't make growth happen but you also can't have sustainable growth if you don't do it ok if breakthroughs goes well you think about that what is to formulate and we're designed sturdy play in all of this here dmitri things we're doing at the wrong time it's very very interesting observation what do you think. well i think i think both speakers had some points were very very important yes dimitri made the point about growth and obviously we need to always remember that that is not just an absolute number is basically as a proportion of the gross national product of its country and then i think people mention one word which is really really crucial which is innovation i think what

we're seeing though at the moment and the main problem that we're seeing at the moment is the austerity is not equally distributed amongst the different parts of the population so effectively you get some people paying more than others without necessarily deserving than and the other thing is you you you apply what's there if you're is on telly and this is going back to what people said about innovation you apply austerity resignedly you achieve nothing and the government will still need to build infrastructure the government will still need to educate people because that's that's the basic role of the government and this is how through the upgrade of human capital you can actually create people that small and medium enterprises can then employ and innovate and create new knowledge and take the economy forward so i think the problem is not as simple as you know we need to spend more money or we need to allow small in these small or medium enterprises to to blow i think what we're lacking at the moment is two things these fair distribution of austerity

measures that's one and the second thing is this that i think that action weeds i don't see hardening in anywhere in the world at the moment we all talking about cuts which is fine yes we need to sense all governments need to send a signal to the different markets financial markets primarily who look like they don't need the world at the moment but on the other hand you need to think how you spend your money in a more effect even more efficient way in where you spend your money is the key question that we need to address i think it's a key question we go back to dimitri's that's apparently ok people go ahead but that's a political decision that's very interesting that's a political decision not necessarily for the common sense go ahead. but that is the point that all these decisions are just and that's why i want to follow on from the comment to say look austerity is one way in which a state defaults and the real issue here is the burden of debt is so we normalize the human beings can't bear the pain of paying it off so one of the ways in which a default can occur well you can do the argentine style will just never pay back

then you don't have to do us terry or you can do with the greeks are doing which is will pay him back but a little later and a little less that's the haircut option we're going to see a lot of that in europe the third is austerity the state defaults on you the citizen makes you pay more taxes makes you work harder makes you retire later all that stuff doesn't pick up your rubbish anymore the fourth option is inflation and that's what the u.k. is doing and i would argue that's how the u.s. is going to get involved on its debt ultimately and then the last option is devaluation which you may or may not be able to do depending on the situation but the point is a sterrett is only one way of achieving a default and so is correct you have to think where does the burden of pain fall on the citizens depending on each of these choices and that is a political decision i mean if you want to jump in there go ahead. but you know yes i think or stated these a very loaded word and i think it's very difficult for us to determine how to

define a stereotype clearly horizontals therapy is not the appropriate measure to apply it one has to determine why is it that we were brought to the position to apply those territories you know as stated in the united states is different i was in a green c.-h. or greece does not have its own currency only in the united states it has its own its own currency so there is one k.'s to be made greece could default the united states cannot be forged so there is a difference between between those two also when we're allowed to increase we have to find actually why and how did increase it's not easy to suggest that somehow or other since all the countries in the euro zone where allowed to world the banks were allowed to borrow at the very low interest rates and pileup. on government debt which was then

a little bit higher so they can make their profits this is not all going to turn out and say well we allowed this to happen but now it's time that the party's over and therefore the population has to pay for the ok to do it regularly it makes it a go back to london frankly because and what's really interesting here is that the greek situation of postal votes like going on in the united states is that the greeks have just lost their sovereignty i mean like it or not it's berlin in frankfurt and brussels they're managing their economy in the end they this is something that's really a stark departure from what people thought the european union is supposed to be about go ahead the the problem the problem is that germany and france are not managing the greek economy they're just managing the greek beds and over the last over the last couple of days i haven't heard anything about how we can return the. economy can grow we're still looking at very some very deep recession figures for the greek economy for the rest of the year last night the indication was that the

economy will sink another five percent until the end of this year and someone made the scenario about the return into growth in twenty thirteen which i don't necessarily see happening and the just being the case in that germany and france are going to create this new fund where all the money that they're giving to greece are going to go in order to pay the the. basically the greek debt of instead of money being spent on the economy itself develop the infrastructure it's not managing the greek economy there's nothing and that's i think i might say i might be provocative here but that's always the recipe if you're even allowed a monetary fund. if you get people saying go to you i mean that's what i mean you're right you should go ahead metering them go to the break go ahead you yes i think i think you should know that greece does not have an industrial base it is basically a consolidation economy so you're absolutely correct your hundred thirty billion euros are going to be used to actually rule over the bed of the really exists and

therefore it will really do anything in terms of a growth establishing a growth path for the greek economy to grow so you're right and garage and thirteen is a pure fantasy to expect that greece is going to grow it is not possible for griese to actually search through actually develop roads and surpluses so they can actually service instead the debt is going to be very high and it's not going to be solved with this new bailout plan that people find out even more rain or a paper before i'd like you before we go to the break here remit paying off the debt let's be clear it's paying banks ok and this is they're getting a primary residence and this is in this saving the banks a banking system i mean that the average person in the right has nothing to do with the average person in athens. correct and that is why won't be enough for greece to default they have to actually exit the euro and get control of the cards seeing all right we're going to go to ensure all right we're going to go to

a short break here and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on austerity stayed with our g. p c. significantly. so. it's. just. the forget. the solar technology innovation and sold in

belem in some of the rounds are we going to the future are covered. in the. same. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then he lives something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything is ok you don't know i'm sorry to. tell me the official policy allocation to your body so i called touch from the i.q. sounds to. life on the go.

under the. keys in my old clothes. says feet now in the palm of your. shoes. called. the. lead live. to talk a little about the magic we're talking about austerity in troubled times. keep. me in new york and i to go to you i'd like to read a quote from angela merkel she said in this crisis we have reached a whole new level of cooperation we have arrived at a sort of european home affairs europe is domestic policy that's a remarkable statement because that's that that's

a very incredible political statement because we're talking about fiscal and political union to the max now because greece has lost its sovereignty at law it's lost its economic decision making ability and if trends continue others call small countries within the euro zone will also follow suit. this may be a remarkable political statement but not any inspiring state because i think that with one talks about it fiscal union or one has to be able to understand what this means the united states of europe need to be thought there's a guy that states of america you know this is america has a central fiscal fiscal agent that's called the united states treasury that does not exist in europe what exists the euro is that every country cannot have a budget deficit above the three percent and to paint all.