another war and they still hate marriage equality more on those topics and more rights big picture rubble also inside still we take a global power shift is taking place right under our feet i will shift global economic power for you this is the u.s. is standing in the world. are you ready to rumble joining me for tonight's big picture rubble chris solomon conservative activist richard a follower democratic strategist and advocacy director for the young democrats of america and jack the republican strategist with the young republican national federation all right let's get to it ok topic number one afghanistan president obama officially apologized this week for the burning of korans with members of the u.s. military at the at a base in afghanistan an apology that eerily sounds like one that was given by president bush

a little earlier also with regard to the syria years that well. maybe . maybe the president yesterday had a regularly scheduled secure video teleconference with prime minister maliki he opened. the meeting but i believe it was either the first or the second issue that the president brought out and to tell prime minister maliki he had heard about the incident when where the qur'an was desecrated and he apologized for that in the sense that he said that we take it very seriously we were concerned about their reaction we wanted them to know that the president knew that this was wrong and that the commanders in the field had. publicly reprimanded the soldier and removed him from iraq. so you know meanwhile we've got conservative commentators calling the president the current president weak for doing what that former president just did which is apologizing for burning the koran and on top of that our warning afghanistan has produced more than just apologies to death and and created

a nation of nomads half a million people have had to flee their homes in afghanistan as a result of the war these are all noncombatants so i'm talking about civilians the new report just came out from amnesty international yesterday twenty two displaced children froze to death just last month in kabul and that's just what we know about in kabul the war in afghanistan is the longest in the history of the united states longer than world war two and you know very few americans understand the horrors of war the generations that were drafted in actually large swaths of the american public saw war the vietnam generation are aging the world war two generation are dying. why i know what all this how horrible all this is why this steady drumbeat for war with iran why why the more you know is this just you know ginned up for or is this politics is what's. the people not get how horrible war is i think chris i

think they do but i think they're also worried about iran getting nuclear weapon and and thrusting us into a war that could you know kill millions upon millions of people i mean we're not looking for a war we're trying to prevent one and iran is the country that's looking for one right now has one north korea has one china has one multiple and none of them are starting wars with the you know most most defense analysts i've seen say we're iran wants to get one so that we won't we won't do them to do what we did to iraq. not because they want to come after us i mean we have we have forty four military bases around iran they've got none around us to the best of my knowledge and richard agree with you tom i think the truth of the matter is is that what the iranians are probably afraid of as a republican becoming presently united states because they know the first and they will do is launch an attack against iran and the simple fact is whether or not we decide whether we agree or disagree with the government structures in iran whether or not we like the president we don't like a lot of foreign brother but the key is to you know through diplomacy to try to solve this and that's what we've seen from president obama and secretary clinton

they reached out to their they which is their nato allies which are to the u.n. security council alan said let's come to some agreement here in our sanctions and we need to continue doing sanctions until we can sort of find some sort of middle ground with iran. well i mean if you think about it this way i think it's preposterous or pushing a drumbeat for war on iran i mean there's definitely a concern about them getting a nuclear weapon i think it's legitimate the i.a.e.a. has given a report recently that says they are working to acquire the means with which to produce one or that they well that's a different question you say north korea has one china has and pakistan has one if we had only one or what among among other winners but if you had it within our druthers we would prefer that they didn't have one quite frankly i think we're concerned about north korea north korea has intentions against its neighbor pakistan and it's very very concerning for us they were thinking if iran does get a bomb they want to swap a bomb with saudi arabia so they don't build one themselves they just have one of their own nuclear proliferation could expand throughout the middle east that's

a very touchy region for us not just us but for the whole world actually because of the wars we've had there but the dynamics the economy because of oil and everything else so the fact the matter is whether or not iran wants to have one it can get one they really shouldn't happen they're going to need a serious you know non debate non nonpartisan question here how do we best produce not for a player of proliferation or i mean you know ronald reagan one of the gorbachev and said let's let's take it to zero and he. he was condemned for that by many conservatives in the united states but i thought it was brilliant i thought back to what richard said was that you know we need more diplomacy well obama's been president for three years and the report just came out that they're advancing their nuclear program so obviously the diplomacy that we've had for three years hasn't done very well and we know what iran's stated purpose is and that is to wipe israel off the map i don't think that's a wrong purpose of me it's the president of iran the problem is not the people of iran's purpose to wipe israel off the map i think the person that's elected office

right now aren't going to press the button the president is going to press the button and that and that phrase is out of context you know. there's still a debate about whether that was even an accurate translation and he has never stated that a second time and that was that was like four years ago and and the the debate about the translation was whether he said that the map of israel. is not the an accurate map in other words the they shouldn't be controlling the west bank territories he has never said that israel has no right to exist the medina shock when he does that a lot of wagon doodle things but he's never said that to the best of my knowledge correctly jack of all he may not have but the but the ayatollah as who really do run the country do you express that viewpoint and i think there's a serious concern there that they would try to do something like that you know you think about it right now between them and syrian their allies of hezbollah and hamas they have tens of thousands of rockets pointed at jerusalem and all

throughout israel so if israel does something to qana that israel has nuclear weapons i mean any of those people are going to mess with israel they're not going to a country anymore and this brings back a question here as to whether or not iran's going to act as a rational actor or not and i think there's a lot of analysts and i think respected ones on both sides of the aisle with think that you know they would not just unilaterally attack israel because it says well could counter strike and eliminate thirty million of their own people. are they just posturing who knows but the fact the matter is there are ways we can prevent them from getting nuclear weapons. senator mark kirk recently put an amendment on the national defense authorization act the pass one hundred to zero unanimously putting sanctions on the bank of iran that would prevent financial institutions from dealing with them and if they do we cut off from our markets and our access to capital and stuff like that which you have to go through for stuff like that makes me you know i frankly i remember when bill clinton sanctions against saddam hussein and. half a million children died as a result you know there's there's

a provision in that that amendment actually that says for humanitarian efforts they can provide things for that and there's also a provision that gives you i say so you can't you can't send in anything that might be a w m d n a lot of those kids who died died because we couldn't import quarrying in and they couldn't they couldn't purify the water systems i mean i just think the whole thing the whole the whole the whole process of belligerence if iran is trying to get a nuclear weapon is because they're if they feel insecure if they feel insecure it's because there's people over here who are doing this and it's if we stop doing that maybe it will maybe we can ramp it down a bit and i mean that's exactly it tom the fact is that you know we have every republican candidate talking about who's going to the first one to launch a weapon in iran when they get elected they have members of the house opposite of the same thing with the people of iran are like well oh my god we think they're going to attack us so we're going to try to create some deterrence major to solve that i mean the key thing here about all the people the whole newco up in the in the world is that the reason why nobody ever struck and we have the mutually assured destruction one person strike the other person strikes iran understand that if they get

a nuclear weapon they cannot use it i think of the every every nuclear act that we've seen in the past i think fifty years have never use a nuclear weapon because they know that once they see us except for us. they know they will get they will be attacked back i mean i think the question i think what the broader point is that what we can do as a world to solve this you know the whole idea of political is work with our international allies to create more treaties that maybe we can ratify the common or the test ban treaty that we stop testing equipment to cut on our development on. the reason why the c.t.t. doesn't have the real reason why doesn't have all authority because we have not ratified it yet i mean that's a step in the right direction maybe we can not pull out of the n.p.t. is george w. bush did i mean there's so many things that we can do to solve and then you know going to war against iran or you know giving ridiculous sanctions and yet in the midst of this here's what rudy giuliani had to say about this i believe it was today it might have been yesterday afternoon. as obama's made just much more complicated by being such a weekly would be dollar to. a couple much the most likely russia letter now the

president's weekly i mean this is this is the kind of rhetoric that's going to make iran's say oh yeah we don't need a nuclear weapon when we feel safe well i mean you're is this guy was right and there's a grand is that a rational actor and that the only reason they're developing safer sauce assumption well that's not the assumption that a lot of people hold and you're assuming that. i mean to assume that their rational act what have they done to nationally by us well with that kind of rhetoric i would i mean to tell him i'm sure they're going to be asking nuclear weapons yesterday george the worst of the bush in his speech in his state of the union address and what second year he said there's an axis of evil three nations iraq iran and north korea north korea immediately got a nuke iran iraq immediately got invaded in iran. which one do we want to. you look at these countries as if they're all the garden of eden look at how they i'm not saying well in their own people i'm not i mean how can they be rational

actors whether they there's a long way should we be invaded in somalia should we be invading burma's you know what he wants to invade we just want to protect ourselves that's all we want to do what i think we're doing and i think that's what president obama's doing the whole battlegroup to the straits of hormuz to say you know if you decide to block this we will take you out we have nuclear submarines there we have battleships there we have preparing for war no wonder no obama obama i was obama is using the military might of the military to say hey listen it's a deterrence matter you bring our ships they're like oh well they brought their ships or that means if there is an option to go to war we can do that the president also is that every options on the table he's never taken an option off the table republicans on the other hand to take every other option off the table besides going to war with jacques thirty seconds your thoughts on this although not at all republican candidate none of the republican candidates are saying we're going to go and just invade iran that's preposterous yes and what's not happening well bill doesn't have that as ron paul everybody else so they want to invade iraq you know

what they didn't say they said they want to go to war with the wrong date and say they want to strike roberts and saddam is going to worry about it i think is what people. that's different than going to war with them for what they're going to try to somewhere in the senate is not going to work with them really i don't know if we go to war with libya or obama you say i think so people in the strait of hormuz i mean he's being belligerent this point i'm not saying he's weak on this and i don't . but you know what you thought america we were going to bomb them at the same time that those on the table and i ask you some have to talk about because there are many in government as well there's repercussions if they do that ok more rubble right after the break that. you just put a picture of me when i was like nine years old until she told the truth. i may confess and i am a total get of friends that i love traveling hip hop music and pretty.

but it was kind of a yesterday. i'm very proud of the world without you she has played. the. guitar sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harvey welcome to the big picture.

welcome back to our rumble chris allman is with us richard a follower and jack to sick and let's get back to it many people want to jeb bush to run for the republican nomination for president i mean back in two thousand or ninety nine i guess the republicans actually wanted him to run for president and

karl rove got away and in shoved his brother in there and but any other these see him as a possibility for a brokered convention job and he made an interesting statement about the rhetoric being used by republican presidential front runners this campaign season when he was asked about the rhetoric being used he told the crowd dallas it's a little troubling sometimes when people are appealing to people's fears and emotions rather than trying to get them to look over the horizon for a broader perspective and that's kind of where we are end of quote in speaking of his own republican party so is the republican party through three questions let me just toss this out is the republican party basically if party of fear mongers as jeb bush seems to be implied did jeb just throw everybody under the bus by saying that they are or did he just put himself in the driver's seat and just a postscript to that since one nine hundred fifty two when prescott bush was elected to the senate there have been fifteen republican presidential tickets in

that in that time other than two thousand and eight anybody know how many did not have a nixon dollar bush on them. and nixon dole or bush right ok one nine hundred sixty four goldwater miller that's it and in fact there's been a bush on the presidential ticket eighty eighty four eighty ninety two two thousand two thousand and four is it going to happen in two thousand and twelve. i think it's unlikely i think that governor bush was making a statement based on his perception of the dynamics of the race right now he's a man who constantly govern with a positive vision i was very optimistic about where you want to take the country was reflecting his poll numbers he was most popular governor in the country when he left i think you make an excellent candidate if he was entering the race but he decided not to for whatever reason i don't think his career is done i would like to add to that though that there was also a clinton on the ticket for many of those years as well so it's really a dynasty between the two i think at this point no hillary was never on the presidential ticket she ran in a primary but i'm talking about the actual ticket these are these are the actual

tickets it's pretty amazing but bill clinton run a couple times. so. interesting observations about it what are your thoughts richard you know i i think the governor is right he's also the governor of my home state and he was governor when i was in the state and he's correct on this you know the republican rhetoric has just gotten out of control they think the best way to win election is to create fear and to put people on their emotions if you notice from last night's debate or was the night before debate either way the day that happened this week in arizona they only said the word jobs ten times in the whole debate. any times so they spent a whole time talking about social issues to rise emotions or to spend the whole time finding ways to create fears about iran or afghanistan instead of talking about the issues that are really basic americans job and bringing the paycheck home and you know i think part of the problem with there was john king he starts off the debate talking about contraception in the whole crowd blues that is an issue that

the obama administration created yes we republicans need to talk of. their vision for the one on a great story had that all. kind of preceded president obama including president well yes but he's the one who brought it up in this election cycle i'm not talking about what's going on in the states and of course medicaid pays for that for low income women most people are already covered by their health insurance so why did he come in and demand that all insurance companies cover something that if you're poor you get through medicaid or the millions of dollars we give to planned parenthood which is not for abortions we all know it's for contraception so i guess planned parenthood should be willing to give up all their funding for contraception because now insurance is going to cover it for free and those women who don't get it from their insurance will get it from medicaid so everybody's covered that that's that's my concern about the republican ticket is that kind of rhetoric chris why is there not room not to pick on you but i think that particular one those kind of things come out of the words of out of the mouths of my own that there's

a lot of women in america who look at that go on wait a minute you know why should contraception if i need penicillin my pharmacy you know it's covered under my pharmacy benefits if i need something for it to think it's covered under my pharmacy benefits but if i want to get birth control pills and start covered what's magical. for about ninety percent of women who have . health insurance through their employer that are you know not those that are covered by the church they already get it for low income women which people say we're not covering it is covered by medicaid in every state what about planned parenthood we're finding those people who maybe are in the gap already so this is an artificial problem created or an artificial issue created by the obama administration but let's get not talk about that not be like john king and get into issues like jobs when you have a moderator who's not asking the questions about what's really important it's hard for the debaters they try but to bring up some of these issues that are really

important to the american people he never asked about gas prices one of the. issues that is so important to so many people as we're seeing gas nearing four dollars a gallon and the moderator never brought it up so there's another blame the fact that they didn't talk about jobs on the money in the debate we're going to you know they talk about what you're asking about yes that is that is what you want to know how do you get out on the stump and i want you i will give you the argument that john king did open up the gate and talk about contraception but back to bay that went on for about twenty five minutes where they all tried to bait each other on who was more conservative on contraception so i mean that's the moderate as well that the candidates want to continue to take the debate on and talk about who is more conservative who doesn't want the women to have their birth control but it's an old political trick i mean all you have to do is watch any sunday morning news show the question a is asked question b. is answer to the fall editions don't necessarily have to answer the question that

was it in fact actually during that debate. was it mitt romney went off on something and john king said that was the question i asked and he said i'll give you the answer i want to give you that it was just all of the things that is they want to give an answer on jobs and that's what it boils down to because they don't have an answer for jobs ok well. jack you think they got in answer on jobs i thought is the ripple effects the what is the republican answer on jobs well there's a lot of ways to approach this i mean tax cuts for rich people that would be helpful it didn't seem to work over the last ten years we've had fifty thousand factories close and ten in ten years and you're going to blame that on tax cuts if the start of these started when the tax cuts those companies had to reduce corporate income tax rate i think they'd be doing a lot other than they would be today and it's just not the tax rate that effective and there's a lot of a lot of pressure is nothing in taxes general electric's tax income tax form when they said that it was nineteen and a half feet high when they printed out the right zero i've told you this before i'm

for reform the tax code from top to bottom and by doing so you'll get more revenue coming in have a fair rate for. playable that's one of the reasons just proposed are you with him for that what do you propose he proposed dropping the top corporate tax rate from thirty five to twenty eight percent and closing up the loopholes so that there are no more corporations who pay nothing profitable corporations who pay nothing in income taxes i prefer if you would drop down to fifteen percent but if that's exactly what you want to do which i highly doubt i'd like to see the legislative language romney's calling for twenty five percent but be a great start let's get that bill out there let's if that's what it says let's get it up let's not go for over the president we are close it's been a busy week it's been another busy week in the fight for marriage equality in america yesterday maryland all but became the eighth state to legalize same sex marriage there waiting for governor o'malley to sign it he might have even by now i don't know however this comes just days after new jersey governor chris christie vetoed same sex marriage bill that passed both houses of the new jersey legislature so it appears that we got this patter one step forward two steps back or maybe one

step back in two steps forward frank i think it's more the latter how long he's going to be before americans look back on this debate the with the same kind of shame and horror that we look back on the miseducation debates in the one nine hundred fifty s. . that's preposterous i don't think so i think i see it actually as asserting rights it's a civil rights issue if you want to look at their way that's fine ok i look at things like this i believe in the tenth amendment i'm a tenth amendment person i think that states have the right to decide what they want for each state so you think the voting rights act and sixty five is wrong and no i don't. but that was also not something that was done in a state by state basis because it wouldn't pass on a state by state basis as well that's fine you just take your time a push it through it's not a civil rights issue that way just isn't the same thing because there's a lot more of a sort of social construct between the right of a man and a woman to be married versus two people so is what you're saying that people don't choose their skin color but they do choose their their their their sexual

preference i don't say that well if they're born with if in both cases if people are born with it how is it anything other than a civil rights issue. well we look at this way a maryland i believe has civil unions. and gay marriage no right and that you know they could form families which is what the argument on the left is let them form family let them part form permanent family as a civil unions did that but that wasn't enough it's like if you have an apple and an orange you hold up the orange this is an orange or a hold of my orange i say this is an apple and you say no not in words no no it's not marriage is between a man and a woman you can have civil unions for gay couples but a marriage in the dictionary is defined as a union between a man whom they want to take a leave of very definition and chris christie only vetoed it because he said this isn't if this is a modern war scenario i mean abraham married his wife or his sister does that you know if you want to go biblical on me but it and david had many wives but

the point of there is over fourteen thousand laws state federal laws that include the word marriage and all of them have to do with the inheritance rights of visitation they have to do with legal contracts would people get married we want we want people to be married we think that long term relationships as a society are good and healthy thing and whether kids are involved or not good long term relationships people having the rights of visitation people having the you know the rights at the end of life to make decisions that's that's a good and healthy thing just like we want to encourage people. corporations we give them advantages because we want business why you know why not marriage equality which i haven't heard from you on you know i look at it this way and i see it as a situation where the state's job in a marriage is to protect the legality of the states not to uphold the religious portion of the weight of the marriage so if you're in a state where there is gay marriage if a church is not to marry to people to matter to women that's fine that's the

church's call but they should be allowed the right to have a marriage have the legal parts of a marriage that they should have i think this is i think he's right exactly i think that is the in my mind at least the common ground here the common ground is that if two people love each other no matter if man or woman. a couple years ago or twenty years ago african-american man and a white woman can get married in a lot of states some miseducation laws that are exactly in sixty five i think so the point of them all the story is i think if your churches agrees with that and that's fine then a gay couple will get married at your church but if you know the over the overall protection of law the protection of property and inheritance and seeing the love on their stick in the hospital they should have the right to do that and there's a long history of this by the way the catholic church for a long time wouldn't recognize the marriage of somebody who'd been divorced knew you couldn't be catholic thirty years ago forty years ago things have changed. but may have changed but it's not present to the church to change the church's rules may say i don't want this state to go i know i agree i agree but i'm. jack you are

i fully agree with richard actually i think a very big difference ok so we'll leave it at that we'll come back with another topic or just say more rumble right after the break we'll be right back. and. we just put a picture of me when i was like nine years old and she told the truth. i think i'm going to get a highly. bratman hip hop music and. he was kind of a yesterday. i'm very proud of the world without you as a place. you

know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture. for. a.

while go back to the rubble chris all in richard a fall or jack do sick let's get back to it we were just we were just talking about the year about i find this amazing that the oscars are saying two and this is not political i just curious what you all think about this the oscars are saying that you know every year it's like. a show to see which woman can show how much of her body i mean it's not like they're not in the costumes right or they're not into outrageous but then sasha baron cohen baron cohen wants to show up dressed like a dictator and they're like oh you can't do that once and once you once opie those might promote his movie which is the us now it's all about.