that's a good run of three point seven you could leave the rest for yourselves or go for seventy percent they just refresh and upload the roche and also get six point nine percent commission thanks for coming to give usual for which is appreciated all programs for people who don't freeze to death leaves the courtroom issue it surely michael also orders just froze got full of myself you're watching live coverage of russia's presidential election from the heart of the russian capital and we're going to continue to bring you updates from all our correspondents but next next is a live i dissent of crosstalk stay with us we'll be back at the top of the hour. means of protection could be used. in global supremacy. between two thousand and five and two thousand and nine u.s.

spent fifteen billion dollars in the praise t.v. for the entire program there we are dealing with right now here in two thousand and eleven is another hundred fifty billion dollars that's larger than the country's entire military budgets on things because the best for the state. keep the story. hello and welcome to a special edition of crossfire computer all about decision two thousand and twelve russians have gone to the polls and chosen a new president how is this campaign change politics in russia what does it say about the voters and what does the future hold for the political opposition. live. in the streets slim. ok to cross talk

first results of the election i'm joined by eric wahlberg in toronto he's an author and journalist and writes about russian affairs and weekly in cairo also here in the studio with me is yon hell of a key is a managing partner of the law firm hell of a klein and and author of all his art on democratic competition all right gentlemen crosstalk rosen if i could means you can jump in anytime you want on hell of it you've been writing about russian politics for a long time how is this campaign change the the climate environment of russian politics. well i think we have seen a very big change in russian politics because political has come alive again. first when we came to power in two thousand there was so huge crisis we should managed and everybody was more or less the negre meant what he was doing so there was no discussion. for a four to

a second term during medvedev spreads he didn't say there came so i mean issues came up but there was no dialogue from the other side when he was the other side from the other side the other side well that's a very difficult question because in this presidential elections we have actually seen two campaigns. sametime two races one has been the russian presidential elections forth between the five candidates and the second half has been a campaign to discredit the presidential elections to do you lead to meet them and hear a lot of people thing i'd like to go to eric about that a lot of people are trying to give us some eyes not necessarily the election that hasn't happened and as we're sitting here right now who deny sixty three percent of the vote i mean did western media get it wrong or did the russians get it right well i think that putin benefited very much from the last three months it's very

reminds me of what's been happening in egypt where the. where the riots in december and january who knows who actually was responsible they ended up . pushing people towards a more conservative position and that meant the moderate muslim brotherhood benefited greatly because they were provoked and just the same idea i mean i just put it in different words i mean at the silent majority came out and voted is that what you're saying. yes and also people were voting for what they saw as their interests and in both cases i think it's people are worried about stability and are worried about corruption and i think that this will make or break the next four years if it has put its center stage to go against corruption we now have transparent elections we've got the same thing happening in egypt the muslim brotherhood and the salahi's say we've had enough of this corruption and we also

now have transparent elections so i think it's very interesting to compare the two cases ok and i go now to brussels to goober doctorow gilbert i mean how do you see this election here because i watched western media very closely and they did try to discredit this election and the russian people in the process because they actually went to the polls turnout is very very good and they made their voice clear how were they going to vote for me to deal with this now. well i don't think the level of plurality of loading reporting will make any difference on the reporting in the western media they have already prepared themselves well in advance and within the context of an ongoing and heated up information war between russia and the west it's a war that's not of russia's choosing but it's being imposed and i think the most recent example of how this plays out came the. yesterday and the day before yesterday when six of the leading editors in chief of world

daily newspapers in toronto in tokyo in frankfurt and paris were invited to do. country. for what should have been a charm offensive and then there are the transcripts of their meeting made it plain that none of them prepare themselves for the meeting except the japanese and they came exactly to hector and to lecture. and on democracy the the the newspaper articles which followed and particularly the one in toronto was simply a plus teach of every anti russian stereotype that's been in the air for the last twenty years in crayon you are going to situation like that there's no way that the russian elections are going to find a fair play in the world media you know you were scoffing at that were agreeing with what we just heard there you know i'm a fairy agreeing the end and the idea that it was the west if they are working to teach a democracy to russia it's because because in fact it with if i sleep interesting

in development of any democracy in russia as anywhere in finding a pavements of mass destruction in iraq wolf in two we can target countries. ok eric i mean i think it's interesting and i don't want to i don't want to dismiss the opposition here the liberal opposition because i think they enrich the election i think we have a political conversation in russia now that we didn't have for a lot of last twelve years i think it's very healthy i mean there is turning into a car hey i'm here to do there's a competition coming here of ideas which is very very important for russia and i think it advances its democracy. yes it's very good the. debate that's taking place now and i think again if i can make a parallel with egypt. you know that there were. n.g.o.s arrests americans were arrested and they only left a few days ago the egyptians and this united egyptians across the spectrum from the

mubarak i do right through to the army and the muslim brotherhood and even the liberal opposition were fed up with the attempts to bring democracy to egypt because people realize that's not the goal the goal is to keep egypt part of the american empire as a subsidiary and a weak element and the same is what the west is trying to do with russia i make the point in my book postmodern imperialism that these countries like europe the european union japan all these countries are subservient they're called the so-called post-modern states they no longer neuter they no longer have foreign policies they do with the u.s. asked them to do and russia was supposed to become part of this club this subservient club and join egypt join. poland and it's refused to do that and so anything that happens in the russian elections in

a matter of putting god in honest eighty percent that would just be scoffed at and dismissed because. russia is not playing by the scenario that the u.s. has for the world today given what do you think about russia's not russia's not playing by the rules go ahead gilbert jump in i want to put a date on the phenomenon that we just called out of a date is february two thousand and seven and that was the speech but i didn't put in the president through the new nick security as i remember it well that is that is what he sent over policies which verd largely are repeated in his february twenty seventh. paper on. russia in a changing world. so there is a considerable consistency there and there's also enormous consistency in the u.s. led response to it which is the information war that i mentioned a few minutes ago is precisely contesting the more the poll the world or the u.s. dominated new order that is led by one man likely were put in and

so the the western response was very personalized ok and he turned from time magazine man of the year to through sar putin in a matter of months he hates it you know it's very interesting i think i always find western media looks at it russia is being very simplistic here but if you listen to the oppositions a lot they have some interesting ideas about political reform here and of the political elite here is responding to them i mean there is a dialogue going on here but you don't hear that in western media because it makes it more complicated doesn't it well i don't think that the western governments are interested in developing development of democracy in russia but what is the really horrible thing is that the western media really think because they are not at all interested in looking at the issues they have a very strong and and therefore anti russian again and the only discuss the

issues that are in favor of this and i could imagine well i mean they don't want to listen to the russian people because they're either the russian people been lied to or they're fools i mean it doesn't make any sense to me well the russian people for western media are fools they show told police respect for for the russian people and their choices ok eric it's really interesting to me is that even the political opposition in russia ignatz that vladimir putin is the most popular politician so how do why doesn't that translate into more logical coverage of russia you think. well it's follows the this is the fact that the media in the west it's an embedded media and they're very much like the immediate went into iraq following the american invasion and the you can't get into the mainstream media unless you play by the rules of empire this is the great tragedy of the collapse of the soviet union before that there was a more lively mainstream media in the west where there was an opposition to the

empire the empire had to respond there was dialogue the empire has no dialogue it talks to itself now and it it's got a cheering gallery which the globe trotting new york times these are all cheering cheerleaders it's very sad to see that and it's very interesting for me as a journalist the where i get coverage and where i can publish it it's on the internet or it's on. the english language paper and where i where i have more freedom of expression then i do in the mainstream media it's very sad that there's no dialogue going ok before we go to the break here do you think anyone's going to compliment putin and congratulate him from the west. formally yes that's that's protocol but don't look for substance in those questions ok with you on what you think about that before we go to the break yeah i don't know about the protocol but

i don't think that they voted they don't want to do it for a protocol because the west that if the governments and the so-called n.g.o.s which are these pressure groups and the western media they are very disappointed with the elections of the russian the choice of the russian people all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after the actual break we'll continue our discussion on the outcome of the presidential election here in russia state parties. can still. vote for president our team of the five running for the kremlin top job candidate liberal democrat mother here's your little speech by far which is most boisterous bully politician. on the record at sixty five. he's on his fifth presidential

campaign honeymoon ten percent of the votes in two thousand and eight his campaign slogan is little escape or it'll be worse. for the presidency a two year drive against corruption in job smuggling in russia vera food and housing prices controversy cost campaign trauma's is included free vodka and free underwear. is infamous for racist remarks and fighting with opponents known abroad for securing parliamentary immunity for the un britain says poisoned alexander litvinenko coups eventually lection two thousand and twelve on forty. live slaves technology innovation all the list of elements from around russia we've got the future covered . live pissed still

listening to. the listener all the time you know all about your mind you were talking about russia's new president. live pictures live. not go back to you in brussels what do you expect in the next six years the next putin administration. well peter i don't think i have to guess too hard because i've spent the last few days reading the seven papers. published in the various russian newspapers and a lot over the last month we got one hundred fifty pages in which he outlines his vision of the problems that said the task the challenges facing the new the new administration and sets out some very specific and very well thought out proposals this is a unique situation it's just very very sad that the western public being guided or

misguided by its media is totally unaware that mr putin stands for anything. he certainly does and i found it fascinating to see what he was proposing to borrow in terms of best practices from europe from germany in particular in areas of educational policy in areas of health care i found the best thing to see his interest in borrowing the best of soviet tradition in the area of high culture and bring it into the digital age so the man has the man and his team because it's clearly a team that produced those one hundred fifty pages have done a great deal of thinking about where they want to take russia air to find go to you know this is the first i'm glad i'm here putin has ever done something like this and running for president this was his third attempt i think the opposition played a role in that in mixing the conversation that i've used before about having a dialogue you think that has something to do with his seven papers that came out.

most definitely i think that. my impression profs and i don't know if this is true or not that he was a little bit lazy towards the end of his first presidency and i think this dialogue that has been forced upon him or maybe he maybe he actually provoked it i have a sense that he wants to see the electoral process after him to be open transparent and he wants to have a stimulating political environment so i think that the dialogue with the opposition has been very good and i think it's also very positive that the communist seven crease their support people are looking back to the soviet heritage they see there's a lot of very good. qualities in terms of culture in terms of social welfare and i think these will now be part of his domestic policy and i could just say a word about his foreign policy i think this will be very important to us is

pushing very hard to try and use hard power to how the world and meeting its agenda whereas russia no longer has this ability and instead it's working with people with other countries there is dialogue again it's not the empire shouting at people it's a multilateral. situation now where russia is working with other countries china in the c.e.o. with the eurasian union that's coming in the international criminal court to kyoto protocols this is the way to build your allies and to have influence i think russia is much more influential now than the u.s. because of its use of suck out i want to talk about for a post little bit more what you can do you think the opposition is going to want to talk to putin over the next six years i don't think so and i don't want to be because they're maximalist in their approach. first of all we had a problem with the definition of what still finished opposition but i would call

the opposition now this people who organized the protests and they are not interested in any kind of guy in dialogue or debate and they didn't think gates in iran they had only one message and that they were trying to convince the word that the russian elections where fraud and would be fraudulent and they're trying to convince to put in his press able to return. personally which is not at all erica i think it's very interesting is that if the opposition doesn't want to talk to putin who to you can just co-opt their agenda very easily. well well i think that it's not just the dissidents it's looks to me a little bit like the situation in this late soviet period where you have a small core of very loud dissidents that are supported by the west they get all the press and get perhaps even funding from the west i don't think that's the only opposition i again i go back to the communists there are

a strong opposition force and i think that putin is going to co-opt some of their agenda and even the liberals to the extent that they want to clean up the economic system and to cut down on corruption i think those are elements of the opposition's agenda that i see will be co-opted i hope so i think this will make or break points presidency can he make advances in the corruption of the past twenty years gilbert look like you want to jump in there go ahead go ahead works had a little bit more complex when we're talking about co-opting the positions of the opposition in a way these are these positions we're already into supported by the fairness by the government team you don't come out with a legislative program to restore self-government through restore the election direct election of governors and mayors. related matters those were the

reasons and the cake of the non-systemic opposition you don't come up with those from one day to the next they clearly were in the dust drawers of of officials in the kremlin a young this. civil awakening doesn't clearly anticipated by those in power yet you in your green yes i agree and if i also would come back to your initial question what i wait for him to have who can presidency first to have to answer to the first part of his presidency was and he to quote were not at the. democracy as they say in whist but he could call were asked to a criminal under total anarchy and he very systematically and pragmatically. created the fundaments of democracy in twelve years which is a hundred years seen in twelve years a hundred years of us western experience in ten twelve years now putin can go

forward and i think that these elections we are today tomorrow we were we call through to a modern russia and putin can then start really to be the modern reformer that he always wanted to be ok eric you know one of the things that people here can i go ahead jump in your head ok i just wanted to add the point about we knew in the elections direct elections of the governors i think this is something that is only now possible without creating more chaos because when you had the very strong oligarchy the direct election of powerful officials in the regions would have created a situation of disintegration and of creating five times and. so it's a really turn to reintroduce this governor ridge a relection so requires a strong control over the very very powerful all the guards that are so you know

you know eric you know you're a journalist can you answer a question for me why don't more people know that in the general public there was a very good explanation why the electoral process was changed in russia why his media of ways maybe assistant chief failing if it's about wars or interventions or foreign elections go ahead. well it's because it's the same very much the same situation in the west there are strong economic forces that control it's a poly arche it's not a democracy in the united states or in canada it's a it's an economic elite that changes we shuffle the deck a little bit among themselves and keep people happy by having regular elections that look transparent but there really is no democracy there it's money that controls the entire economic process in especially in the u.s. and with the elections and i think this is what the u.s. wanted to see happen in russia and putin put a stop to this thank god. it is the key of the yeltsin years and i

think the the attempts now and this is again going back to egypt the revolution that happened in egypt very much because it became. kind of mimicking a parody of the u.s. system where you have a tiny economically powerful elite that just controls all the political system so i think that this is a very important point that the media cannot pick up on because the media is part of it it's a cheerleader for the poly arche ok gilbert how is the west going to deal with putin at the end of the program i asked if anyone is going to gradually putin i mean russia is a force to be reckoned with i mean you can't ignore it on the international stage you do if you do you do apparel and i agree with you life will go on they will continue to have a stable relationship but the answer is not a good one he's clearly not the united states and its closest allies wanted. they

will have to learn who in the world if they wanted russia and never got my head around that a communist or nationalist. ok dion you want to jump in go ahead you're on they would meet anybody else but not putin because. if the economy took a minister then i would have come in in power he would have been there for one or two years and then you break up again so you just want of the russian and a weak person and pressure all right let me stay with you here the qualification all right your job a don't want this cross on the only week president go ahead jump in or they want to be a legitimate president of the red van there. gilbert jump in they wanted someone like me did well i agree completely with your appraisal unfortunately in the in the summit in november two thousand and ten with sarkozy america. it was clear that the advantage of was precisely the kind of president that these

people like they could push him around but the gradient is anywhere how do you how will leave deal with the situation i think it will big their wombs and they will be very nice to the tree for next year and then they will see what will be the next chance to poke. poke in the russians take ok you know what if i go back to you i think we shouldn't diminish the role that mr medvedev played as president i mean he he did exactly was a very popular president and he pushed through a lot of reforms through though you know he's passed the baton back to the man where he got it from mr putin. guber go ahead. there was a difficult to pick you up to pick up. eric did you hear that what i said it. yes well i was initially hopeful with me then there but i'm sorry i have to disagree

that i think the reforms that he was trying to push did not really get oh ok well we've run out of time gentlemen to see where the rest of the count goes many thanks my guest today in brussels toronto and here in the studio and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the phoenix time and remember prost awful. story. of the. world. science technology innovation all the lives developments around russia we've got the future covered.

i don't.