please. please. let's just say. slug. the c c.

c. slump can you see the sun the be the sun hello and welcome to a special edition of crossfire computable decision two thousand and twelve russians have gone to the polls and chosen a new president how is this campaign change politics in russia what does it say about the voters and what does the future hold for the political opposition slept the biggest celebrity. to cross talk first results of the election i'm joined by eric wahlberg in toronto he's an author and journalist and writes about russian affairs and weekly in cairo in brussels we have gilbert doctorow he's an independent scholar and author of great post cold war american thinkers. in international relations also here in the

studio with me is yon hella big he is the managing partner of the law firm hell decline and use of and author of always art on democratic competition all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. you've been writing about russian politics for a long time how is this campaign change the climate of environment of russian politics. well i think we have seen a very big change in russian politics because politics has come alive again. first when putin came to power in two thousand there was so huge crisis which he managed and everybody was more or less the negre meant what he was doing so there was no discussion. for it for just a second. during various presidency there came some issues came up but there was no dialogue from the out of sight when he was the other side from the other side who's the other side well that's

a very difficult question because in this presidential elections we have actually seen two campaigns same same time two races one has been the russian presidential elections forth between the five candidates and the second has been a campaign to discredit the presidential elections due diligence them and here a lot of people would say and i'm going to go to eric about that a lot of people are trying to give us some eyes to not necessarily the election but has been happening as we're sitting here right now we don't know sixty three percent of the vote i mean the western media get it wrong or do the russians get it right well i think that putin benefited very much from the last three months it's very reminds me of what's been happening in egypt where the. where the riots in december and january who knows who actually was responsible they ended up. pushing people

towards a more conservative position and that meant the mother muslim brotherhood benefited greatly because they were provoked and just the same idea that is going to do it in different words i mean at the silent majority came out and voted is that what you're saying. yes and also people were voting for what they saw as their interest and in both cases i think it's people are worried about stability and are worried about corruption and i think that this will make or break the next four years if putin has put it center stage to go against corruption we now have transparent elections we've got the same thing happening in egypt the muslim brotherhood and the salahi's say we've had enough of this corruption and we also now have transparent elections so i think it's very interesting to compare the two cases ok and i go now to brussels to gilbert doctorow gilbert i mean how do you see this election here because i watched western media very closely and they did try to discredit this election and the russian people in the process because they actually

went to the polls turnout is very very good and they made their voice clear how were they going to western media to deal with this now. well i don't think the level of plurality of london reports in will make any difference on the reporting in the western media they've already prepared themselves well in advance and within the context of an ongoing and heated out information war between russia and the west it's a war that's not of russia's choosing but it's being imposed and i think the most recent example of how this plays out came the. yesterday and the day before yesterday when six of the leading editors in chief of the world daily newspapers in toronto in tokyo in frankfurt and paris were invited to two. country thus up for what should have been

a trauma offensive and then there are the transcripts of their meeting made it plain that none of them prepare themselves for the meeting except the japanese and they came exactly to hector and to lecture. on democracy the the the newspaper articles which followed and particularly the one in toronto was simply a plus teach of every chance i russians there that's been in the air for the last twenty years ok and you work with a situation like that there's no way that the russian elections are going to find a fair play in the world media you were scoffing at or agreeing with what we just heard there. agreeing and i think the idea that there was the west. working to teach a democracy to russia because in fact with. as little interesting in development of a new democracy in russia as they were in finding a paperless of mass destruction in iraq walled in to weaken the target

country. ok eric i mean i think it's interesting and i don't want to i don't want to dismiss the opposition here the liberal opposition because i think they enrich the election i think we have a political conversation in russia now that we didn't have for a lot of last twelve years and i think it's very healthy i mean there is turning into a car hey i'm here to do there's a competition coming here of ideas which is very very important for russian i think it advances its democracy. yes it's very good the this is the debate that's taking place now and i think again if i can make the parallel with each of. you know that there were. n.g.o.s arrests americans were arrested and they only left a few days ago the egyptians and this united egyptians across the spectrum from the mubarak i. right through to the army and the muslim brotherhood and even the liberal opposition were fed up with the attempts to bring democracy to egypt

because people realize that's not the goal the goal is to keep egypt part of the american empire as a subsidiary and a weak element and the same is what the west is trying to do with russia i make the point in my book postmodern imperialism that these countries like europe the european union japan all these countries are subservient they're called the so-called post-modern states they no longer neutered they no longer have foreign policies they do with the u.s. asked them to do and russia was supposed to become part of this club this subservient club and join egypt join let the poland and its refused to do that and so anything that happens in the russian elections in a matter of god an honest eighty percent that would just be scoffed at and dismissed because it russia is not playing by the scenario that the u.s. has for the world today given what you think about russia's not russia's not

playing by the rules go ahead gilbert jump in i want to put a date on the phenomenon that we just called him a date is february two thousand and seven and that was the the speech live with him and put event president through the munich security conference i remember it well. that is what he said of the policies which verd largely are repeated in his february twenty seventh. paper. in a changing world. so there is a considerable consistency there is also enormous consistency in the u.s. led response to it which is the information war that i mentioned a few minutes ago with precisely contesting the world of the us dominated new order that is led by one man played with the reporter and so the the western response was very personalized ok and he turned from time magazine man of the year to through sar putin in

a matter of months and you know it's you know it's very interesting i think i always find western media looks it russia is being very simplistic here but if you listen to the oppositions a lot they have some interesting ideas about political reform here and the political leaders responded to them i mean there is a dialogue going on here but you don't hear that in western media because it makes it more complicated doesn't it well i don't think that the western governments are interested in developing development of democracy in russia but what is a really horrible thing is that the western media really think because they are not at all interested in looking at the issues they have a very strong and and therefore anti russian. and the only discuss the issues that they are in favor of this and they put an agenda well i mean it's a they don't want to listen to the russian people because either the russian people been lied to they're fools i mean it doesn't make any sense to me well the russian

people for western media are false. show total disrespect for russian people and their choices ok eric it's really interesting to me is that even the political opposition in russia is mit's that vladimir putin is the most popular politician so how do why doesn't that translate into more logical coverage of russia you think. well it follows the this is the fact that the media in the west it's an embedded media here very much like the media that went into iraq following the american invasion and the you can't get into the mainstream media unless you play by the rules of empire this is the great tragedy of the collapse of the soviet union before that there was a more lively mainstream media in the west where there was an opposition to the empire the empire had to respond there was dialogue the empire has no dialogue it talks to itself now and. it's got a cheering gallery which the globe toronto and new york times these are all

cheering cheerleaders it's very sad to see that and it's very interesting for me as journalists the where i get coverage and where i can publish it it's on the internet or it's on in an arab english language paper where i where i have more freedom of expression then i do in the mainstream media it's very sad that there's no dialogue going ok do you prefer before we go to the break or do you think anyone's going to compliment putin and congratulate him from the west. formerly yes that's that's protocol. don't look for substance on those good wishes ok with you on what you think about that before we go to break yeah i don't know about the protocol but i don't think that they even want to do it for a protocol because the worst that if the government and the so-called n.g.o.s we try to use pressure groups and the western media they are very disappointed with

the elections of. the choice of the russian people all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the outcome of the presidential election here in washington state.

i'm sure all of our got a story are out about this crazy lady with a convertible that hunks of times. i was on death row for nineteen years. love life that. has these people. it is necessary to punish everything. but it needs to be done nobody wants to be linked to the nazis but the historical antecedents of the american death penalty today come in large part from the nazis and the sad part is they take this gets their way and they execute him and i won't be allowed to touch him until after he's dead he's my only time i leave the house. and he keeps telling me they can't hear me and they are. blocked. but i still honk

everytime i go by. i won't be there i will not witness the feeling my friend. came. to mind you were talking about the issues you present. to you in brussels what do you expect in the next six years the next putin administration. well peter i don't think i have to guess too hard because i've spent the last few days reading the seven papers of living reports and published in

the various russian newspapers and a lot over the last month he got one hundred fifty pages in which he outlines his vision of the problems which had the task the challenges facing the new new administration and sets out some very specific and very well thought out proposals this is a unique situation it's just very very sad that the western public being guided or misguided by its media is totally unaware that mr putin stands for anything. he certainly does and i found it fascinating to see what he was proposing to borrow in terms of best practices from europe from germany in particular and areas of educational policy in areas of health care and i found a festering to see his interest in borrowing the best of soviet tradition in the area of high culture and bringing it into the digital age so the man has the man his team because it's clearly

a team that produced those hundred fifty pages have done a great deal of thinking about where they want to take russian air to find out to you this is the first time flight amir putin has ever done something like this and running for president this was his third attempt i think the opposition played a role in that in mixing the the conversation that i've used before about having a dialogue you think that that has something to do with his seven papers that came out. most definitely i think that. it might my impression process is i don't know if this is true or not that he was a little bit lazy towards the end of his first presidency and i think this dialogue that has been forced upon him or maybe he may be actually provoked it i have a sense that he wants to see the electoral process after him to be open transparent and he wants to have a stimulating political environment so i think that the dialogue with the opposition has been very good and i think it's also very positive that the

communists and increase their support people are looking back to the soviet heritage they see there's a lot of very good. qualities in terms of culture in terms of social welfare and i think these will now be part of his domestic policy if i could just say a word about his foreign policy i think this will be very important the u.s. is pushing very hard to try and use hard power to how the world into meeting its agenda whereas russia no longer has this ability and instead it's working with people with other countries there is dialogue again it's not the empire shouting at people it's a multilateral. situation now where russia is working with other countries china in the c.e.o. with the eurasian union that's coming in the international criminal court to kyoto protocols this is the way to build your allies and to have influence i think russia

is much more influential now than the u.s. because of its use of salt i want to talk about foreign plus a little bit more iran you think the opposition is going to want to talk to putin over the next six years. i don't think so and i don't want to because they're maximalist in their approach rule. first of all we had a problem with the definition of what's the open opposition what i would call the opposition now this people who organized the protests and they are not interested in any kind of day in dialogue or debate and they didn't engage in one they had only one message and that they were trying to convince the words that the russian elections where fraud and would be fraudulent and they're trying to convince that putin is a repressed able to return. person which is not at all ok i think it's very interesting is that if the opposition doesn't want to talk to putin putin can just call up their agenda very easily. well well i think it's not just the this it in

its looks to me a little bit like a situation innocently soviet period where you have a small core of very loud dissidents that are supported by the west they can't all the press and that get perhaps even funding from the west i don't think that's the only opposition i again i go back to the communists there are strong opposition force and i think that putin is going to co-opt some of their agenda and even the liberals to the extent that they want to clean up the economic system and to cut down on corruption i think those are elements of the positions agenda that i see will be co-opted nice i hope so i think this will make or break points presidency can he make a dent in the corruption of the past twenty years gilbert look like you want to jump in there go ahead go ahead works go ahead a little bit more complex when we're talking about co-opting the positions of the

opposition in a way these are these positions we're already into supported by the fair enough by the government team you don't come out with a legislative program to restore self-government to restore the election direct election of governors and mayors. and. related matters those were the reasons and the cake of the non-systemic opposition you don't come out with those from one day to the next they clearly were in the best drawers of of officials in the kremlin ok yeah this is a very likely civil awakening because it clearly anticipated by those in power yet you don't you agree yes i agree and if i also would come back to your initial question what i wait for and the kind of putin presidency first to have to answer to that the first part of his presidency was. not just

a. democracy is a interest but he took over after a criminal an r.p. total anarchy and he very systematically and pragmatically. created the fundaments of democracy in twelve years which is a hundred year seen in twelve years hundred years of us western experience in ten twelve years now putin playing go forward and i think these elections we are today tomorrow we were we call through to a modern russia and putin and then start really to be the modern reformer that he always wanted to be ok eric you know one of the things that people here going to jump in go ahead ok i just wanted to add the point about new in the election direct elections of the governors i think this is something that is only now possible without creating more chaos because when you had the very strong oligarchy

the direct election of powerful officials in the regions would have created a situation of disintegration and of creating five times and it's so it's a really to reintroduce this governor ridge through elections and requires a strong control over the very very powerful oligarchy that are still in play you know you know erick you know you're a journalist can you answer a question for me why don't more people know that in the general public there was a very good explanation why the electoral process was changed in russia why has media of ways maybe assistant failing if it's about the interventions or storing the elections go ahead. well it's because it's the same very much the same situation in the west there are strong economic forces that control it's a poly arche it's not a democracy in the united states or in canada it's a it's an economic elite that changes reshuffles the deck

a little bit among themselves and keep people happy by having regular elections that look transparent but there really is no democracy there it's money that controls the entire economic process in specially in the us and with the elections and i think this is what the u.s. wanted to see happen in russia and putin put a stop to this thank god. because the key is the yeltsin years and i think the the attempts now and this is again going back to egypt the revolution happened in egypt very much because it came. kind of mimicking a parody of the u.s. system where you have a tiny economically powerful elite that just controls all the political system so i think that this is a very important point that the media cannot pick up on because the media is part of it it's a cheerleader for the poly arche ok gilbert how is the west going to deal with putin the fate of the program i asked if anyone is going to gradually putin i mean

russia is a force to be reckoned with i mean you can't ignore it on the international stage you do if you do you do it peril and i agree with you life will go on they will continue to have a stable relationship but the atmosphere is not a good one he's clearly not the amount of the united states and its closest allies wanted. to they will have to learn who in the world that they want and russia have never got my head around that a communist or nationalist. ok beyond you want to jump in go ahead john abell need anybody else but not putting because if you focus on him if the coleman is true then i would have a man in power he would have been there for one or two years and then it would break up again so they just want a v russia and a weak person and for russia i'm going to see where the rest of the count goes many thanks my guest today in brussels toronto and here in the studio and banks who are viewers for watching if you see you next time and remember last awful.

story. to a substantial degree and one time or another socialism has spread the shadow of human regimentation over most of the nations of europe and the shadow is encroaching upon all the friends. of the early twenty first century military bases a network of military bases all around the world forms the empire that the united states is trying to put it's a stylish most americans have no idea there are more than a quarter of a million more than two hundred fifty thousand u.s. troops stationed on these bases all around. we don't have foreign bases in america

we don't have any british base we don't have any korean base we don't have any french bases or you know we just all american bases in cross our bases of on it or the noises on the north of those bother us at all because they're all bases but for other people it's almost like a cancer here from space. since the end of world war two the spaces i've been. working here to provide safe and secure environment for everybody. the questions the appeals just get everything you needed.

wealthy british style. time. market finiteness. find out what's really happening to the global economy which might structure for.