and you are with archie and our special coverage of russia's presidential election with almost ninety percent of the ballots counted flood in europe region is in the lead with nearly sixty five percent of the vote is that years to rival the communist party's going to be zyuganov as a little over seventy percent to other contenders said dave miron of and of lucky me of shit enough ski have accepted their defeat the communist party's candidate get out the suit gone off condemned sunday's vote as not legitimate fair or.

your special coverage of russia's presidential election here on our t.v. continues we will be bringing you updates in the hours ahead but for now it's a debate time and a special election edition of our t's crossed. live . in the spirit. below in welcome to a special edition of cross talk i'm peter lavelle decision two thousand and twelve russians have gone to the polls and chosen a new president how is this campaign change politics in russia what does it say about the voters and what does the future hold for the political opposition. led.

to the slim. ok to cross-talk first results of the election i'm joined by eric wahlberg in toronto he's an author and journalist and writes about russian affairs and weekly in cairo in brussels we have gilbert doctorow he's an independent scholar and author of great post cold war american thinkers on international relations also here in the studio with me is yon hell of a he is a managing partner of the law firm hell of a klein and who served and author of all his art on democratic competition all right gentlemen crosstalk rosen effect it means you can jump in anytime you want yeah and hell of it you've been writing about russian politics for a long time how is this campaign change the the climate environment of russian politics. well i think we have seen a very big change in russian politics because political has come alive again.

first when putin came to power in two thousand there was so huge crisis we should managed and everybody was more or less that my dream and what he was doing so there was no discussion. for it for just a second. during medvedev spreads it instead there came so i mean issues came up but there was no dialogue from the out of sight to see the other side from the other side who's the other side well that's a very difficult question because in this presidential elections we have actually seen two campaigns. sametime two races one has been the russian presidential elections for president if five candidates and the second half has been attempting to create a presidential elections to diligent them and hear a lot of people would say not to go to eric about that a lot of people are trying to give them eyes to not necessarily the election that hasn't happened in as we're sitting here right now we don't know sixty three percent of the vote i mean did western media get it wrong or did the russians get

it right well i think that putin benefited very much from the last three months it's very reminds me of what's been happening in egypt where the. where the riots in december in january who knows who actually was responsible they ended up. pushing people towards a more conservative position and that meant the moderate muslim brotherhood benefited greatly because they were provoked and just the same idea that is going to so many different words i mean at the silent majority came out and voted is that what you're saying. yes and also people were voting for what they saw as their interest and in both cases i think it's people are worried about stability and are worried about corruption and i think that this will make or break the next four years if it has put its center stage to go against corruption we now have

transparent elections we've got the same thing happening in egypt the muslim brotherhood and the salahi's say we've had enough of this corruption and we also now have transparent elections so i think it's very interesting to compare the two cases ok and i think going out to brussels to gilbert doctorow gilbert i mean how do you see this election here because i watched western media very closely and they did try to discredit this election and the russian people in the process because they actually went to the polls turnout is very very good and they made their voice clear how were they going to western media to deal with this now. well i don't think that the level of plurality of london reporting will make any difference on the reporting in the western media they have already prepared themselves well in advance and within the context of an ongoing and heated up information war between russia and the west it's a war that's not of russia's choosing but it's being imposed and i think the most recent example of how this plays out came the. yesterday and the day before

yesterday when six of the leading editors in chief of the world daily newspapers in toronto in tokyo in frankfurt and paris were invited to two. country. for what should have been a trauma offensive and then there are the transcripts of their meeting made it plain that none of them prepare themselves for the meeting except the japanese and they came exactly to hector and to lecture or put it on the marker see the that the newspaper articles which followed and particularly the one in toronto was simply a plus teach of every ounce i russian stereotype that's been in the air for the last twenty years ok young you work with a situation like that there's no way that the russian elections are going to find a fair play in the world media you know you were scoffing at that were agreeing

with what we just heard there imus harry agreeing in the in the idea that it was the west. or wanting to teach democracy to russians because in fact with. as little interesting in development of any democracy in russia as the were in finding in papers of mass destruction in iraq walt aim to weaken the target country. ok eric i mean i think it's interesting and i don't want to i don't want to dismiss the opposition here the liberal opposition because i think they enrich the election i think we have a political conversation in russia now that we didn't have for lo plus twelve years i think it's very healthy i mean there is turning into a cot hey i'm here to there's a competition coming here of ideas which is very very important for russia and i think it advances its democracy. yes it's very good the the debate that's taking place now and i think again if i can make

a parallel with egypt. you know that there were. n.g.o.s arrests americans were arrested and they only left a few days ago the egyptians and this united egyptians across the spectrum from the mubarak. great through to the army and the muslim brotherhood and even the liberal opposition who were fed up with the attempts to bring democracy to egypt because people realize that's not the goal the goal is to keep egypt part of the american empire as subsidiary and a weak element and the same is what the west is trying to do with russia i make the point in my book postmodern imperialism that these countries like europe the european union japan all these countries are subservient they're called the so-called post-modern states they no longer neutered they no longer have foreign policies they do with the u.s. asked them to do and russia was supposed to become part of this club this

subservient club and join egypt join let the poland and it's refused to do that and so anything that happens in the russian elections no matter if putin got an honest eighty percent that would just be scoffed at and dismissed because russia is not playing by the scenario that the u.s. has for the world today given what you think about the russians not russia's not playing by the rules go ahead gilbert jump in i want to put a date on the phenomenon that we just called him a date is february two thousand and seven and that was the speech live with them president through the community security council i remember it well that is what he said of the policies which verd largely are repeated in his february twenty seventh . paper. in a changing world. so there is a considerable consistency there is also enormous consistency in the u.s.

led response to it which is the information war that i mentioned a few minutes ago it's precisely contesting the north pole the world over us dominated new order that is led by one man cleverly were put in and so the the western response was very personalized ok you turn from time magazine man of the year to two so are putting in a matter of months i hate it you know it's very interesting i mean i always find western media look at it russia is being very simplistic here but if you listen to the oppositions a lot they have some interesting ideas about political reform here and the political elite here is responding to them i mean there is a dialogue going on here but you don't hear that in western media because it makes it more complicated doesn't it well i don't think that the western governments are interested in developing development of democracy in russia but what is the really horrible thing is that the western media really think because they are not at all

interested in looking at the issues they have a very strong anti putin and therefore anti russian my gender and the only discuss the issues that are in favor of this and i put imagined what it means so they don't want to listen to the russian people because either the russian people been lied to or they're fools i mean it doesn't make any sense to me well the russian people for western media are false. show total disrespect for for the russian people and their choices ok eric it's really interesting to me is that even the political opposition in russia mit's that vladimir putin is the most popular politician so how do why doesn't that translate into more logical coverage of russia you think. well it follows the this is the fact that the media in the west it's an embedded media player very much like the media that went into iraq following the

american invasion and the you can't get into the mainstream media unless you play by the rules of empire this is the great tragedy of the collapse of the soviet union before that there was a more lively mainstream media in the west where there was an opposition to the empire the empire had to respond there was dialogue the empire has no dialogue it talks to itself now and it it's got a cheering gallery which the globe toronto and new york times these are all cheering cheerleaders it's very sad to see that and it's very interesting for me as journalists the where i get coverage and where i can publish it's on the internet or it's on in an arab english language paper where i have more freedom of expression than i do in the mainstream media it's very sad that there's no dialogue going ok before we go to the break here do you think anyone's going to cause a lot of your putin and congratulate him from the west. formally yes that's that's

protocol but don't look for substance in those good rituals ok with you on what you think about god before we go to break yeah i don't know about the protocol but i don't think that even if they even want to do it for a protocol because the west that if the governments and the so-called n.g.o.s which argues pressure groups and the western media they are very disappointed with the election of the russian the choice of the russian people all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the outcome of the presidential election here in washington state party.

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other such luck i'm here all the time it all comes to mind you were talking about russia's new president. lists lead the to the lists the plugs. go back to you in brussels what do you expect in the next six years the next ministration. well peter i don't think i have to guess too hard because i've spent the last few days reading these seven papers to a glimmer putin published in the various russian newspapers and a lot over the last month you got one hundred fifty pages in which he outlines his vision of the problems that said let's ask the challenges facing the new new administration and sets out some very specific and very well thought out proposals this is a unique situation it's just very very sad that the western public being guided or

misguided by its media is totally unaware that mr putin stands for anything. he certainly does and i found it fascinating to see what he was proposing to borrow in terms of best practices from europe from germany in particular in areas of educational policy in areas of health care i found the best thing to see his interest in borrowing the best of the soviet tradition in the area of high culture and bringing it into the digital age so the man had the man and his team because it's clearly a team that produced there was one hundred fifty pages have done a great deal of thinking about where they want to take russia erica thanks to you this is the first i'm glad i'm here putin has ever done something like this and running for president this was his third attempt i think the opposition played a role in that in mixing the conversation that i've used before about having a dialogue you think that has something to do with his seven papers that came out.

most definitely i think that. it might my impression is i don't know if this is true or not that he was a little bit lazy towards the end of his first presidency and i think this dialogue that has been forced upon him or maybe he maybe he actually provoked it i have a sense that he wants to see the electoral process after him to be open transparent and he wants to have a stimulating political environment so i think that the dialogue with the opposition has been very good and i think it's also very positive that the communists have increased their support people are looking back to the soviet heritage they see there's a lot of very good. qualities in terms of culture in terms of social welfare and i think these will now be part of his domestic policy if i could just say a word about his foreign policy i think this will be very important. to us is pushing very hard to try and use hard power to how the world and meeting its

agenda whereas russia no longer has this ability and instead it's working with people with other countries there is dialogue again it's not the empire shouting at people it's. a lot or all. situation now where russia is working with other countries china in the as c.e.o. with the eurasian union that's coming in the international criminal court to kyoto protocols this is the way to build your allies and to have influence i think russia is much more influential now than the u.s. because of its use of suck out i want to talk about foreign policy will get more on you think the opposition is going to want to talk to putin over the next six years . i don't think so and i'll write one because they're maximalist in their approach rule. first of all we had a problem with the definition of what's the open issue opposition but i would call

the opposition now this people who organized the protests and they are not interested in any kind of day and go debate didn't think gauge in one they had only one message and that they were trying to convince the word that the russian elections where fraud and would be fraudulent and they're trying to convince the putin his repressive authoritarian person which is not at all ok eric i think it's very interesting is that if the opposition doesn't want to talk to putin who to you can just co-opt their agenda very easily. well well i think it's not just the dissidents it's looks to me a little bit like the situation in late soviet period where you have a small core of very loud dissidents that are supported by the west they get all the press and they get perhaps even funding from the west i don't think that's the only opposition i again i go back to the communists there are strong opposition

force and i think that putin is going to co-opt some of their agenda and even the liberals to the extent that they want to clean up the economic system and to cut down on corruption i think those are elements of the opposition's agenda that i see will be co-opted i hope so i think this will make or break points presidency can he make advances in the correction of the past twenty years gilbert look like you want to jump in there go ahead go ahead cliques go ahead a little bit more complex when we're talking about co-opting the positions of the opposition in a way these these positions move into supported by the fair enough by the government team you don't come out with a legislative program to restore self-government through restore the election direct election of governors and mayors. related matters that were the

reasons and the cake of the non-systemic opposition you don't come out with those from one day to the next they clearly were in the desk drawers of of officials in the kremlin a young you know this is a very likely civil awakening present clearly anticipated by those in power yet you in your green yes i agree and if i also come back to your initial question what i wait for and who can presidency first i have to ask you to do the first part of his presidency was. not up to. democracy has its in with but keep you cool we're after a criminal. total anarchy and he very systematically and pragmatically. created the fundaments of democracy in twelve years which is a hundred year seen in twelve years hundred years of western experience in ten twelve years now putin can go forward and i think that these elections we are today

tomorrow we were we call through to a modern russia and putin can then start really to be the modern reformer that he always wanted to be ok eric you know one of the things that people here can i go ahead jump in your head ok i just wanted to add the point about. actually direct elections of the governor is i think this is something that is only now possible without creating more chaos because when you had the very strong oligarchy the direct election of powerful officials in the regions would have created a situation of disintegration and creating five times and it's so it's a really turn to reintroduce this governor ridge through elections who requires a strong control over the very very powerful all the guards that are still play you know you know eric you know you're a journalist can you answer

a question for me why don't more people know that in the general public there was a very good explanation why the electoral process was changed in russia why has media of ways maybe assistant failing if it's about the interventions or foreign elections go ahead. well it's because it's the same very much the same situation in the west there are strong economic forces that control it's a poly arche it's not a democracy in the united states or in canada it's a it's an economic elite that changes should reshuffles the deck a little bit among themselves and keep people happy by having regular elections that look transparent but there really is no democracy there it's money that controls the entire economic process in especially in the u.s. and with the elections and i think this is what the u.s. wanted to see happen in russia and putin put a stop to this thank god. is the key of the yeltsin years and i

think the the attempts now and this is again going back to egypt the revolution that happened in egypt very much because it became. kind of mimicking a parody of the u.s. system where you have a tiny economically powerful elite that just controls all the political system so i think that this is a very important point that the media cannot pick up on because the media is part of it it's a cheerleader for the poly arche ok gilbert how is the west going to deal with putin at the end of the program i asked if anyone is going to gradually putin i mean russia is a force to be reckoned with i mean you can't ignore it on the international stage you do if you do you do apparel and i agree with you life will go on they will continue to have a stable relationship but the pursuer is not a good one he's clearly not the united states and sclerosis allies wanted.

very we'll have to learn who in the world if they wanted russia and never got my head around that a communist or nationalist. ok john you want to jump in go ahead you're on they wanted anybody else but him because. if we're going to have to call mr then i would have come in in power he would have been there for one or two years and then it from break up again so you just want of the russia and a weak person and for russia they run out of now i'm going to see where the rest of the count goes many thanks my guest today in brussels toronto and here in the studio and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the phoenix time and remember. the k.k.k. . story. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then he lives something

else and you hear sees some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom hardy welcome to the big picture.

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