your media projects free media are going to r.t. dot com. this is our teaser russian the presidential election coverage live from moscow and its official it in has been elected president results were announced with more than ninety nine percent of the ballots counted he's managed to secure only sixty four percent of the vote. for and won its praise the election science fair and free after unprecedented measures are taken to ensure transparency a massive network of web cameras were installed at polling stations across russia thousands of observers monitoring the voting. for the opposition claims serious and

that for violations saying they'll be bringing people out onto the streets once again to protest against the results. and independent observers have started the regularity of people turning out to vote at different polling stations several times. the next people are better than his guests discuss international reaction to russia's election in a special edition of the party's debate share crosstalk. and you can say.

hello and welcome to a special edition of crossfire computable decision two thousand and twelve russians have gone to the polls and chosen a new president how is this campaign change politics in russia what does it say about the voters and what does the future hold for the political opposition. can't say. ok crosstalk first results of the election i'm joined by eric wahlberg in toronto he's an author and journalist and writes about russian affairs and weekly in cairo in brussels we have gilbert dakar oh he's an independent scholar and author of great post cold war american thinkers on international relations also here in the studio with me is ian hell of a he is the managing partner of the long from hell of a klein and use of and author of all his art on democratic competition all right

gentlemen cross talk rules and if i mean you can jump in anytime you want yeah on how that you've been writing about russian politics for a long time how is this campaign change the the climate environment of russian politics. well i think we have seen a very big change in russian politics because politico has come alive again. first when putin came to power in two thousand there was so huge crisis we should managed and everybody was more or less the negre meant what he was doing so there was no discussion. for it for just a second. during an event of spritz he didn't see there came so i mean issues came up but there was no dialogue from the out of sight he was the other side from the other side who's the other side well that's a very difficult question because in these presidential elections we have actually seen two campaigns. sametime two races one has been the russian presidential

elections for five candidates and the second has been a campaign to give credit. presidential elections to deal legitimate them and here a lot of people would thing i'd like to go to air about that a lot of people are trying to give them ice not necessarily the election that hasn't happened as we sitting here right now but in a sixty three percent of the vote i mean it western media get it wrong or do the russians get it right well i think that putin benefited very much from the last three months it's really reminds me of what's been happening in egypt where the. where the riots in december and january who knows who actually was responsible they ended up. pushing people towards a more conservative position and that meant the mother of muslim brotherhood benefited greatly because they were provoked and just the same we're going to get in there

are going to be so many different words i mean at the silent majority came out and voted is that what you're saying. yes and also people were voting for what they saw as their interest and in both cases i think it's people are worried about stability and are worried about corruption and i think that this will make or break the next four years if putin has put it center stage to go against corruption we now have transparent elections we've got the same thing happening in egypt the muslim brotherhood and the salahi's say we've had enough of this corruption and we also now have transparent elections so i think it's very interesting to compare the two cases ok and i could go now to brussels to gilbert doctorow gilbert i mean how do you see this election year because i watched western media very closely and they did try to discredit this election and the russian people in the process because they actually went to the polls turnout is very very good and they made their voice clear how were they going to western media to deal with use now. no i don't think

that the level of plurality of ladin reports and will make any difference on the reporting in the western media they have already prepared themselves well in advance and within the context of an ongoing and heated up information war between russia and the west it's a war that's not of russia's choosing but it's being imposed and i think the most recent example of how this plays out came the. yesterday and the day before yesterday when six of the leading editors in chief of the world daily newspapers in toronto in tokyo in frankfurt and paris were invited to two. country. for what should have been a trauma offensive and then there are the transcripts of their meeting made it plain that none of them prepare themselves for the meeting except in japanese and they came exactly to hector and to lecture. and on the marker see the the

the newspaper articles which followed and particularly the one in toronto was simply a plus teach of every anti russian stereotype that's been in the air for the last twenty years ok and you work with a situation like that there's no way that the russian elections are going to find a fair play in the world media you know you were scoffing at or green with what we just heard there you're. agreeing. and the idea that the west. are working to teach a democracy to russia because in fact the with. as little interesting in development of a new democracy in russia as they were in finding a paperless of mass destruction in iraq walled in to weaken the target country. ok eric i mean i think it's interesting and i don't want to i don't want to dismiss the opposition here the liberal opposition because i think they enrich

the election i think we have a political conversation in russia now that we didn't have for a lot of the last twelve years i think it's very healthy i mean there is turning into a car hey i'm here to there's a competition coming here of ideas which is very very important for russian i think it advances its democracy. yes it's very good the the debate that's taking place now and i think again if i can make a parallel with egypt project you know that there were. n.-g. o. arrests americans were arrested and they only left a few days ago the egyptians and this united egyptians across the spectrum from the mubarak. right through to the army and the muslim brotherhood and even the liberal opposition were fed up with the attempts to bring democracy to egypt because people realize that's not the goal the goal is to keep egypt part of the american empire as subsidiary and

a weak element and the same is what the west is trying to do with russia i make the point in my book postmodern imperialism that these countries like europe the european union japan all these countries are subservient they're called the so-called post-modern states they no longer neuter they no longer have foreign policies they do with the u.s. asked them to do and russia was supposed to become part of this club this subservient club and join egypt join. poland and it's refused to do that and so anything that happens in the russian elections no matter of god an honest eighty percent that would just be scoffed at and dismissed because russia is not playing by the scenario that the u.s. has for the world today given what you think about russia's not russia's not playing by the rules go ahead you'll jump in but let's put a date on the phenomenon that we just called out in the date is february two thousand and seven and that was the the speech live

a dinner put and then president through the munich security conference i remember it well. that is what he said of the policies which verge largely are repeated in his february twenty seventh. paper. russia in a changing world. so there is a considerable consistency there is also enormous consistency in the u.s. led response to it which is the information war that i mentioned a few minutes ago it's precisely contesting the more poll the world over us dominated new order that is led by one man cleverly reputed and so the the western response is very personalized ok you will turn from time magazine man of the year to two so are putting it in a matter of months and you hate it you know it's very interesting i mean i always find western media looks it rush is being very simplistic here but if you listen to

the opposition's a lot they have some interesting ideas about political reform here and the political elite here is responded to i mean there is a dialogue going on here but you don't hear that in western media because it makes it more complicated doesn't it well i don't think that the western governments are interested in developing development of democracy in russia but what is a really horrible thing is that the western media really think because they are not at all interested in looking at the issues they have a very strong and a putin and therefore anti russian. and b. only discuss the issues that they are in favor of this anti putting agenda well it means they don't want to listen to the russian people because either the russian people been lied to or they're fools i mean it doesn't make any sense to me well the russian people for western media are false. show total disrespect for the russian people and their choices ok eric it's really interesting to me is

that even the political opposition in russia it myths that vladimir putin is the most popular politician so how do why doesn't that translate into more logical coverage of russia you think. well it follows the this is the fact that the media in the west it's an embedded media here very much like the media that went into iraq calling the american invasion and the you can't get into the mainstream media unless you play by the rules of empire this is the great tragedy of the collapse of the soviet union before that there was a more lively mainstream media in the west where there was an opposition to the empire the empire had to respond there was dialogue the empire has no dialogue it talks to itself now and it it's got a cheering gallery which the globe trotting new york times these are all cheering cheerleaders it's very sad to see that and it's very interesting for me as

journalists the where i get coverage and where i can publish it's on the internet or it's on in an arab english language paper where i where i have more freedom of expression than i do in the mainstream media it's very sad that there's no dialogue going ok do you ever before before we go to the break here do you think anyone's going to call that a mere putin and congratulate him from the west. formerly yes that's that's protocol but don't look for substance in those good wishes ok well young when you think about that before we go to the break yeah i don't know about protocol but i don't think that they even if they even want to do it for a political because the west that if the governments and the so-called n.g.o.s which are use pressure groups and the western media they are very disappointed with the elections of the of the russian the choice of the russian people all right gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the outcome of the presidential election here in russia state party.

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sun. the sun the mammogram it all comes to mind you were talking about russia's new president. slept can't sleep the same. back to you in brussels what do you expect in the next six years the next putin is ministration. well peter i don't think i have to guess too hard because i've spent the last few days reading the seven papers of lemur putin published in the various russian newspapers in the over the last month you got one hundred fifty pages in which he outlines his vision of the problems that said the task of the challenges facing the new the new administration and sets out some very specific and very well thought out proposals this is a unique situation it's just very very sad that the western public being guided or

misguided by its media is totally unaware that mr putin stands for anything. he certainly does and i found it fascinating to see what he was proposing to borrow in terms of best practices from europe from germany in particular and areas of educational policy in areas of health care i found the festering to see his interest in borrowing the best of soviet tradition in the area of high culture and bringing it into the digital age so the man has the man and his team because it's clearly a team that produced those one hundred thirty pages have done a great deal of thinking about where they want to take russia erik i'm going to you know this is the first i'm glad i'm here putin has ever done something like this and running for president this was his third attempt i think the opposition played a role in that in mixing the become in that i've used before about having a dialogue you think that that has something to do with his seven papers that came out. most definitely i think that. it my impression

is that i don't know if this is true or not that he was a little bit lazy towards the end of his first presidency and i think this dialogue that has been forced upon him or maybe he maybe he actually provoked it i have a sense that he wants to see the electoral process after him to be open transparent and he wants to have a stimulating political environment so i think that the dialogue with the opposition has been very good and i think it's also very positive that the communists encrease their support people are looking back to the soviet heritage they see there's a lot of very good. qualities in terms of culture in terms of social welfare and i think these will now be part of his domestic policy if i could just say a word about his foreign policy i think this will be very important to us is pushing very hard to try and use hard power to how the world into meeting its

agenda whereas russia no longer has this ability and instead it's working with people with other countries there is dialogue again it's not the empire shouting at people it's. the lateral. situation now where russia is working with other countries china in the c.e.o. with the eurasian union that's coming in the international criminal court kyoto protocols this is the way to build your allies and to have influence i think russia is much more influential now than the us because of its use of suck out i want to talk about the post little bit more but you don't you think the opposition is going to want to talk to putin over the next six years. i don't think so and because they're maximalist in their approach the rule. first of all we had a problem with the definition of what's the open issue opposition but i would call the opposition now this people who organized the protests and they are not

interested in any kind of day and dialogue going to be they didn't engage in one they had only one message and that they were trying to convince the word that the russian elections where fraud and would be fraudulent and they're trying to convince that putin is a repressive authoritarian person which is not at all ok eric i think it's very interesting is that if the opposition doesn't want to talk to putin putin can just co-opt their agenda very easily. well well i think it's not just the dissidents it's looks to me a little bit like the situation in this late soviet period where you have a small core of very loud dissidents that are supported by the west they get all the press and get perhaps even funding from the west i don't think that's the only opposition i again i go back to the communists there are strong opposition force

and i think that putin is going to co-opt some of their agenda and even the liberals to the extent that they want to clean up the economic system and to cut down on corruption i think those are elements of the opposition's agenda that i see will be co-opted least i hope so i think this will make or break putin's residency can he make a dent in the corruption of the past twenty years ok gilbert a look like you want to jump in there go ahead go ahead works go ahead a little bit more complex when we're talking about co-opting the positions of the opposition in a way these these positions move into supported by the fair enough by the government keep you don't come out with a legislative program to restore self-government to restore the election direct election of governors and mayors. related matters that were the reasons and

the cake of the non-systemic opposition you don't come out with those from one day to the next they clearly were in the desk drawers of of officials in the kremlin a young this very likely civil awakening was that clearly anticipated by those in power yet you and your green yes i agree and if i also would come back to your initial question would i wait for him to kind of who can presidency first i have to ask you to do used to the first part of his presidency was he to quote were not asked to. democracy has to say in whist but he took over after a criminal an european total anarchy and he very systematically and pragmatically. created the fundaments of democracy in twelve years which is a hundred years seen in twelve years hundred years of us western experience in ten twelve years and now to think i'm go forward and i think these selections for today

tomorrow we were recalled to the to a modern russia and putin can then start really to be the modern reformer that he always wanted to be ok eric you know one of the things that people here can i go ahead jump in your head ok i just wanted to add the point about. the election direct elections of the governors i think this is something that is only now possible without creating more chaos because when you had the very strong oligarchy the direct election of powerful officials in the regions would have created a situation of disintegration and of creating five times and it's so it's a really two to reintroduce this governor for direct elections and requires a strong control over the very very powerful all the guards that are still you know you know eric you know you're a journalist can you answer

a question for me why don't more people know that in the general public there was a very good explanation why the electoral process was changed in russia why has media ways maybe assistant failing if it's about the interventions or foreign elections go ahead. well it's because it's the same very much the same situation in the west there are strong economic forces that control it's a poly arche it's not a democracy in the united states or in canada it's a it's an economic elite that changes should we shuffle the deck a little bit among themselves and keep people happy by having regular elections that look transparent but there really is no democracy there it's money that controls the entire economic process in specially in the us and with the elections and i think this is what the u.s. wanted to see happen in russia and putin put a stop to this thank god. is the key of the yeltsin years and i

think the the attempts now and this is again going back to egypt the revolution happened in egypt very much because it became. kind of. a parody of the u.s. system where you have a tiny economically powerful elite that just controls all the political system so i think that this is a very important point that the media cannot pick up on because the media is part of it it's a cheerleader for the poly arche ok gilbert how is the west going to deal with putin at the end of the program i asked if anyone is going to gradually putin i mean russia is a force to be reckoned with i mean you can't ignore it on the international stage you do if you do you do it peril no i agree with you life will go on they will continue to have a stable relationship but the atmosphere is not a good one he's clearly not the man the united states and its closest allies wanted . they will have to learn who in the world that they want in russia that i never

got my head around that a communist or nationalist. ok john you want to jump in go ahead john they wanted anybody else but putting because. if the economy if the coal minister then a would have come in in power he would have been there for one or two years and then it from break up again so day just wants to view russia and a weak person and for russia right out of time gentlemen want to see where the rest of the county goes many thanks my guest today in brussels around tokyo and here in the studio and thanks to our viewers for watching us here already see you next time and remember. to see. the. mission free accreditation free cones for charges free. range

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