tonight on r t sixteen afghan civilians dead and so many more unanswered questions aside from the who and how of this tragedy americans want to know why bly is the u.s. still in afghanistan after so many years when troops will finally leave we'll speak to journalist neil say about his experience in the region. and another question mark in america's eyes syria what to do and whether we should intervene and today's u.n. security council meeting didn't bring much more clarity to that question we'll bring you the latest from new york. plus the national defense authorization act is supposed to do what its title suggests looks can be deceiving the bill could

actually take away more freedoms than a guarantees and now a team of authors activists politicians and professors are trying to stop the law in its tracks we'll tell you how the news starts now. while there is major fallout today after a shooting rampage in afghanistan u.s. officials say a u.s. soldier acted alone when he left his base saturday night walked more than a mile and then broke into three separate homes killing sixteen civilians including nine children and three women it happened in superbad village in the pen we just sort of khandahar a place called by many the birthplace of the taliban witnesses say after the shootings the man gathered some of the bodies and then set them on fire before returning to his base and turning himself in and that man is now in custody according to u.s. officials he's a staff sergeant based at the joint base lewis mccord in washington state he's

married with two children and had already served three tours in iraq and had been in afghanistan since december as you can imagine this incident has been a major setback in u.s. afghan relations already on extremely shaky ground after last month's incident in. u.s. soldiers burned several copies of the qur'an and which not which muslims consider the holiest of books and also a direct word from god the incident over the weekend has raised questions about the psychological impact on u.s. troops the u.s. justice system and the war in afghanistan itself we want to look a little deeper into this and to help me do that i'm joined by journalist and writer neal say neal i want to start actually to something that you wrote i know you've spent a lot of time in afghanistan so i want to put this up on the screen something you wrote during your time there you said describing some of the people you were around you said there were men who enjoyed it demolishing afghan houses men who shot dogs in the face the pair who have grace like lovers once tenderly drawing the blade of his knife along the pale smooth skin of his friend's throat where the guy had left

the others tired legs open and mock rape him and there were several men who had boasted of plans to murder her ex-wives and former girlfriend then neil i read this and i thought this is not human this is not men following their human instincts these are men in the wild talk to me about this behavior and where you think it comes from well i think these these guys are covering the wars in iraq and afghanistan on and off since two thousand and six this is the first group of soldiers i've ever been with who really made me a little bit nervous in terms of what they seem capable of and i can't really say where the roots of their behavior were what they might have come from back in their homes united states but i do know that several of them had been through two wars in iraq and afghanistan previously so i think that a lot of what you're seeing here is this the cycle a young man through these wars that are in that have no way around that they're really they're not so they're sort of we call upon them to be warriors but then we also ask them to show remarkable restraint and win the hearts and minds of the

enemy and you can't switch people's aggression on and off and expect it to work every time and i think that's possibly what we're seeing in afghanistan now and i think it's interesting too because a lot of the behavior that you witnessed that you wrote about witnessing was not. necessarily soldiers or marines breaking the law but it was certainly stuff as you said it was antiseptic all too willing to campaign out of the hearts and minds talk about the impact that you think it had that a lot of times journalists only cover these events when they're actually illegal but we don't hear a lot of the stories that you tell about this behavior you know it's really tough with limited space and limited attention spans you can't go into these stories most of the time unless there's a crime scene unless there's sort of it's after the fact and there's some kind of reaction to it and you can't go into the story well nobody a lot of the publications i've worked for in the past they're not you know you're there to cover a specific thing usually so unless it rises to the occasion of

a big event or a crime or something that seems really heinous it's just sort of the everyday conduct of the war and how much of that that we ever see in american media this is one of my great criticisms of the american media is that they tend to focus on the big stuff or the really boring stuff but we don't have a good sense of what it's like every day and the sort of cyclical violence the sort of small aggression that the men and women face every day over there after all your time that you spent there what was your reaction when you first heard about this incident over the weekend when i was with a friend of mine who was actually in the air force and he told me about it and it made me a little bit nauseous to hear this and it just it sort of breaks my heart to into pieces first for the afghan civilians obviously but also for the for this the sergeant's family and for the men and women who are doing or trying not to be there and they're trying really trying hard to do something else and to win the hearts

and minds and do the right thing this one soldier's action as the potential to be the defining moment of the end of the war and i don't think anyone wants that and i think that we saw that too with the qur'an burnings last month this is a couple guys who did this it was very. ignorant of them to do and many of their you know fellow soldiers were murdered there were at least four american soldiers about thirty five afghan civilians who were murdered in the riots in the aftermath of this do you think that when the when this is happening that they're thinking about the results of these actions i mean i can't begin to speculate what was going on this guy's going to be speaking about the reactions i think you would have. or the consequences would you probably have been thinking about his family and his two kids if indeed he does have three children i don't think that he was doing it because of course it's it's pretty clear that when this sort of thing happens people are not absolutely let's talk about sort of the the reaction by top

officials in the u.s. certainly they vowed a full investigation they found that that the person or people involved in this will be held responsible. and yet we see examples sort of like we saw i think was just a couple of months ago staff sergeant frank wuterich from marine was let off basically let off the hook he got maybe a lowering in his rank after reading an attack in iraq i believe it was in which twenty four afghan civilians died. this is discussed in iraq and in these villages despite the fact that they don't have you know twenty four hour cable news networks they find out that that their friends and family are killed and that the people responsible for that are not brought to justice. what do you think about you know how they might react to this i mean some of them have said president obama should hand that soldier over and let the afghans deal with. yeah well i don't i'm certain that about that i'm not going to happen but i do think that in some ways it's it has greater potential for damage in afghanistan because of the way that people are

not necessarily linked into their own information systems they they're not going to be able to find out about this on their own so they're going to hear it through a strange sort of tribal and local village rumor mill and when they go to the mosque on friday and hear from the the mullahs who knows what kind of story this is going to be spun into so it could take. just monstrous proportions that i actually i'm surprised we haven't really seen any of it yet so maybe it's just the way that news travels in afghanistan maybe we won't see terrible riots for a week or two but you're youngsters no way to predict how this will play out. what about the u.s. afghan relations certainly are already there has been a major effort a lot of work put into dealing with the transition that that's going to take place in twenty fourteen you know when u.s. combat troops to stretch will to leave how does this. you know play a role and that after. it's it's just going to really threw a wrench in the system and i think that already the afghans and the americans had

a lot of trouble arguing over the fine details of which are all and even handing over control of the prisons and things like this so i'm not sure what this will what kind of pressure this will bring on the karzai but it certainly puts the americans on the back foot in terms of what they're going to be able to ask for and expect from their allies and if they have to spend a whole lot of time dealing with the fallout and putting out little fires and dealing with riots they're not going to be able to do the other things that are really the crux of the mission and anything that you want to kind of talk about real quick we're almost out of time but just in your experience in afghanistan that that surprised you. well i was i guess my first thoughts are that there are so many soldiers and marines and other american service people who don't do this kind of thing my heart really goes out to them because now they're going to have to deal with the consequences of the actions of one man who really has as nested up for

them and that's what i've been thinking about today and hearing from people who are still on the ground there is that now they have to deal with that whatever wave comes they have to be ready certainly it will be interesting to keep our eyes on that region to see what happens journalist and writer we'll say thanks so much for joining us here in studio today. still ahead on r g squaring off over syria like the united nations isn't as unified as its title suggests as officials meet in new york to discuss the ongoing unrest in the middle east we'll bring you the very latest. on what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decision to break through it so that you can make who can you try no one. with a global mission where we had to take control of capitalism is clear that when nobody dearest. yeah we do. question more.

counseling i'm. also not in new york where russian foreign minister sergei lavrov met with secretary of state hillary clinton today the central topic to their talk talks what to do about the situation in syria russia of course along with china have already vetoed previous attempts by the u.s. and the u.n. security council to try to pave the way to bring down the government of bashar al assad letters leaders excuse me from both russia and china say they're simply following international law and they want to try to help the region come up with a diplomatic solution earlier i spoke with our correspondent on

a saucer churkin i asked her if today's meetings had brought us any closer to an agreement on syria and here's her take. russian foreign minister sergei lavrov and his counterparts at the united nations got together for a security council meeting really a rare occasion when foreign ministers descend upon the united nations to hold talks because everybody acknowledges that the seriousness of the situation on the ground in syria and fortunately from what we know as for the last several months the diplomatic community has not been able to reach a consensus in terms of what to do on the ground as we know of course the united states and the western countries have been calling for regime change on the ground they have been saying that it's important for assad to step down just to to for there to be a solution but russia of course has been saying that this is no way the international community's business and really what's important is for the rest of the world including the u.s. to acknowledge the fact that opposition groups are in fact armed forces and they

include forces even like al qaida so certainly russia says regime change will not be a solution and what's important is avoiding a libyan scenario so to the talks continued as the russian foreign minister said it was an important juncture to keep talking but still no compromise and russia believes that unless there is one compromise found it's going to be very hard to move forward and i think one of the arguments from the other side what is the u.s. saying in terms of this need to be involved this need to see the assad regime fall . well you are you know kind of traditionally believe that regime change is a way to find a solution to a crisis but unfortunately history has shown that that is not the case and sometimes regime change can bring even further violence and a situation that is even worse for the syrian people but the united states continues to say that. the world has to stand up for the syrian people and standing up for the syrian people means backing the position of the united states and its

counterparts but that is something that the u.s. keeps saying and they're saying that really the bloodshed will be on the hands of russia and china because the world's conscience really this is the time when it's affected and this is the time to act so really there is a do a big misunderstanding there in some ways that the u.s. thinks this is the appropriate thing to do we know that the words intervention have not been said out loud yet at least not openly but there have certainly been reports that this is something that's being considered and you know we're going to have to wait and see how this develops whether the diplomats find a joint solution or somebody will start acting unilaterally i think it's important that you ation to take a look at this it wasn't too long ago that we saw the u.s. and russia working together on things like the start treaty. but as you say you know now there is something or pointing going on and there is sort of this notion that the u.s. wants to blame russia for getting in the way for the violence continuing in syria i

did you sense that energy did you sense a sort of. weird mood between. clinton. well you know there's definitely been some tension in the official positions of course of the two countries and i'm sure that kind of energy continues to exist and so there is still no solution everybody came to new york in hopes to kind of move forward but that has not happened importantly russia however said that you know it's the finger pointing and blaming people can continue for as long as other countries want but the fact of the matter is that one country and this particular case russia cannot find or you know be responsible for a specific solution and the russian foreign minister was very clear about this earlier today take a listen to what he said it's not all innocent people say that everything depends on which i would love to see such a situation for the russian federation and the world the fears and the like i would

also like to know to hold that the united states can magically resolve the newbie's crisis the arab israeli conflict or. stop the drug trafficking from afghanistan but we all understand that today's problems of the world cannot be resolved by the desire for its evil and systems even action by one country illegally. and russia's position christine is very clear sergei lavrov was meeting with his arab league counterparts the day before coming to new york and they agreed on five key principles of what should come next those things include a halt of violence and a ceasefire both sides of the conflict something that the west still refuses to recognize creating a strong monitoring mechanism providing full support to coffee and don's mission on the ground as well as humanitarian aid to all syrians involved in the conflict and really the unacceptability of outside intervention and this is something that's key

because we're going to have to wait and see whether countries including the west in the west will be able to refrain from such an intervention all right artie correspond on a theater up to date with these meetings and for much well this year twenty twelve started off with a brand new law of the land after the signature of president barack obama on a piece of legislation called the national defense authorization act and cia among other things gives the united states military the power to legally detain suspects indefinitely without charge or trial and that includes american citizens so basically the due process clause in the constitution gets to be ignored or not with the trash and the language of the bill which targets not only terrorists but also associated forces coalition partners and those who quote substantially support terrorists and that kind of language offers no exemptions for journalists or many other people so we wanted to take a look at this lawsuit that's challenging the legality of the n.d.a. specifically the authorization for use of military force aspects of it one of the

plaintiffs in the lawsuit is chris hedges a former middle east bureau chief for the new york times and a columnist currently with truthdig he also wrote the book death of the liberal class and earlier i had him on the show and asked him what he hopes to achieve with this lawsuit. well if nothing else to raise public awareness i think it's clearly unconstitutional certainly the lawyers for ancora mayor who are bringing the case believe it is unconstitutional whether we will get a hearing we will find out soon to be in court in the southern just record in new york on the twenty ninth if i am ruled as a credible plaintiff then we can go forward in the first thing the lawyers do ten tend to do is to file an injunction because the law went into effect earlier this month that is a decimation of the most basic civil liberties that americans have taken for granted it overturns two hundred years of domestic law which has prohibited the

military from functioning as a police force and as you pointed out when you began it removes due process for anybody who is deemed not just a terrorist but to have contact with these associated forces that's not a term that's defined it's nebulous it's quite a frightening piece of legislation i know and someone like you who's worked. over many years working as a middle east correspondent i know you've met with one of these terrorist groups you spoken to members of hamas and the palestinian liberation organization. are you concerned at all that you could be you know charged for guilt by association. well yes precisely we went through the state department list of terrorist organizations and i have had direct and personal contact with leaders who are members of seventeen of those groups as you pointed out hamas jihad.

for the new york times based in paris after nine eleven and was in mosques interviewing clerics and figures some of whom are now in prison. who were have been charged as being members or leaders of al qaida yes when the state department or the government the white house dislikes reporting that we do this happened to me when i covered the civil war in el salvador under the reagan administration or even in the balkans or the middle east they tend to shoot the messenger or attempt to shoot the messenger and i have been you know in a dinner at the homes of dr ranty see a new user on two of the leaders of hamas who were later killed by the israelis in targeted assassinations and as you know again as you said there is no exemption for journalists because of the amorphous nature of the language it is

a very short step for those of us who do have direct contact with these individuals and with these groups to be branded as accomplices and we are seeing now with the use of the espionage act on the part of the obama administration six cases and since the espionage act was passed in one thousand nine hundred seventeen by woodrow wilson between then and the obama administration only three cases only were only three uses of it none of those cases went to the supreme court certainly one of the cases maybe bradley manning maybe sterling maybe another will reach the supreme court i think it's widely assumed that the court will uphold the use of the espionage act to process. people who have spoken to the press and given what is considered secret classified information to the press at that point we have a de facto official secret act we shut down any anything but the official

narrative the official version of events so when you put what's happening within the court system and the espionage act with the n.d.a. the national defense authorization accords this latest incarnation of the n.d.a. it really. is a giant step towards. a kind of corporate fascism and it will put more than a chill because anybody who leaks essentially can be sent to prison for life and part of the you know one of the biggest criticisms of course is that it can impact american citizens which is new the president president obama issued a signing statement that said it would not be used on american citizens why isn't this good enough. well because it has no legal standing and dianne feinstein had proposed when she discovered u.s. citizens indeed could be caught up in this dragnet essentially extraordinary rendition on the streets of american cities and not only sent to military

facilities but sent to these offshore penal colonies abroad. that they insert into the language that u.s. citizens would not be subject to this kind of treatment and that was rejected by both the obama white house and the democratic party so we know from leaks out of carl levin's office he was the democratic senator who co-sponsored the bill with john mccain that all of the disputes of the white house were never over whether or not u.s. citizens would be deprived of due process over who would decide which citizens were going to be subject to that treatment and which citizens would be exempt the white house wanted that authority they got it once they got it they signed the bill and you know something i find really interesting is as unprecedented as this law is a lot of people have never even heard of that and you know those who have for the most part don't think court and i think i read between two and nine percent think

it's a good law how did this come brody and how did it how is it that so many people still have no idea that this is a lot. well this is just part of the failure of the corporate media. you know at this point because it has bipartisan support because the acceptable range of political discussion in this country runs as dorothy parker once said of. katharine hepburn's emotional range as an actress from a to b. you know anybody who raises these kinds of issues here is automatically pushed outside of the mainstream and let's remember that obama signed this on new year's eve i mean he signed it at a moment when most americans attention were focused elsewhere and there has been official spin by both the white house and the democratic party including this signing statement that mask what this kind of legislation what this bill can actually do and it's not a long bill i mean most if you're interested you should go read it it's it's pretty

clear cut and pretty frightening if not bad technical to pull up and kind of get through chris that while i have you here i want to switch gears for just for a second and talk about what happened over the weekend in afghanistan sixteen civilians killed most of them women and children and that was apparently a u.s. soldier acting alone as a former middle east correspondent as the many with a lot of experience here i just want to get your reaction when you first found out about this. well that's what happens in war you know the thing is when you're fighting the kind of war they're fighting in afghanistan you essentially have an elusive enemy an enemy you rarely see attacks are carried out by improvised explosive devices or ambushes where people the knelt the assailants knelt back into the landscape and this creates what the psychiatrist robert jay lifton calls atrocity producing situations so when you have casualties taken within a unit and you have an inability of no target to strike back against it becomes

a very short step to just branding everybody even women and children as the enemy and taking out acts of vengeance against them this is something that we saw repeatedly in vietnam and i think that this is an incident that illustrates the frustrations that u.s. military personnel face and let's not mince words the fact that we are losing the war in afghanistan and one wishes that the pentagon and the political leaders of the united states said sat down and read the ten year history of the red army's attempt to occupy afghanistan we might have learned something yeah certainly interesting that you create your perspective on this and the national defense authorization act be keep us posted i think you said you'll be in court at the end of the month will definitely keep our eyes out for what happens there bill it's a prize winning author and columnist for truthdig chris hedges in our new york studios but switch over to the european debt crisis and take a look at the impact of austerity measures in greece and we've told you for months

now about the high unemployment rates there are showing you pictures of the violent protests in the street that is our to correspondent martin reports there are other very dark are facts. curriculum brucey threatens to throw herself from her office window in downtown athens she and her husband have had their salaries cut out of debts and a mortgage they can't pay and now they've just learned their jobs are under threat she was eventually talked down after many hours on the ledge. this is where ron barassi worked with this organization trying to provide housing support for people on low incomes or they did until two weeks ago when the government announced this place was closing all the seven hundred staff here could lose their jobs because of frantic meetings in corridors and offices distressed workers try to find out what will happen to them or their based organization has been going strong for sixty

years and it's not fair to send their money to other departments they want to take our money to cover other holes they want to take money for other necessities put all our families will be all employees if we could save greece ok but there's no way that money will fill the gap with the odds so stacked against them some desperate greeks even contemplate ending it all. and this is the only phone line in the country that's dedicated to stopping them line ten eighteen is greece's single volunteer run charity suicide prevention line in two thousand and eleven calls here doubled calls like one the telenor picked up from a mother standing on the fifth floor of a building threatening to jump she had a family member and sowed with it was handicapped and received the benefit and this benefit then it was about a book out and she was about to close her top and said there's nothing so what can i do to help me what can i do to help myself so they don't have the suffering will

the charity to is short of money its volunteers unsure of their future although many greeks grudgingly accept the need for austerity they're adamant that m.p. should combine compassion with the cuts. now the funding is threatened because this was the one thing it's like for people like this with a problem of the mother in the household everyone agrees that greece's road to recovery will be long and painful but greater and greater numbers of greeks worry that the debt the country is in. could cost their families much more than just money. well that's going to do it for now but for the stories we covered good r.t. dot com slash usa they'll find stories we don't really have time to get to on the show today our web team wrote about an artist wrote an article about a u.n. official now u.n. investigation into the treatment of private first class bradley manning the findings were haunting the investigation.