tonight in our t.v. freedom of the press for all except for those who publish and can begin truths an independent reporter is behind bars in yemen at the personal request of the us president accused of terrorism for simply doing his job it's a story you probably never heard of and it's not one that you're likely to forget. and from silencing critics of broader what about those right here at home the us is the land of the free and the home it would seem to have zero transparency the examiner what it is that the u.s. is showing afraid of the public discovering. close friends with benefits doesn't

always work out well for everyone especially in the case of relations between the u.s. and its closest ally but things may be changing soon in terms of the u.k. and we'll explain why and how. evening it is a wednesday march fourteenth four pm here in washington d.c. i'm lucy catherine of and you're watching our team. well in honor of sunshine we are dedicating to shows to the issues of government secrecy transparency justice and the rule of law we're going to look at how transparency doesn't seem to apply to a growing list of us her titties and whether it's secret prisons torture or drone wars and that's just to name a few the white house approach seems to be to stay silent and to make damn sure that others do to as we'll discuss with jason leopold in just a bit those who blow the whistle on government wrongdoing signed off the sire and

suffer pardon me dire consequences and of course there is always the fourth estate but you can hear it with c. and lots dogs are often drowned out by the lap dogs now for this journalist themselves are mostly to blame the us does have a squashing of all record i would say on press freedom but it's not in dire crisis yet i mean it's not like journalists are regularly rounded up and thrown behind bars for doing their jobs right it wasn't just a few weeks ago to jay carney reassured us about the president's commitment to quote aggressive journalism now i bring these questions up because they're at the core of the case of a duel in law so he's an independent yemeni journalist who's been languishing behind bars at the personal request of president barack obama he's respected for his coverage of the war on terror he has interviewed al qaeda leaders including ones that the u.s. has been hunting and he was also the first to detail the u.s. role in bombings that killed yemeni civilians including children back in two thousand and nine and while he was imprisoned on terror charges he was pardoned

after a national outcry so why as to us want him behind bars well the answer of that to that is a subject of a new piece in the nation magazine and by independent journalist jeremy scahill he's also the author of the book blackwater the rise of the world's most powerful mercenary army he joins me from new york jeremy welcome back to the program. why is the world superpower concerned with an independent journalist in yemen. well the united states has been waging a covert war in yemen for a number of years in fact president obama really escalated that koger war the first bombing of yemen that we know that president obama authorized was on december seventeenth two thousand and nine and the way it was reported in the press was that it was a yemeni strike and that thirty four al qaeda members were killed in that strike and because of this journalists are going to the scene taking photographs of the

missile parts and then sending them to media outlets and ultimately to amnesty international the world learned that in fact it was that u.s. bombing because they were tomahawk cruise missiles and cluster bombs neither of which ever has in its arsenal and of course after revealed that. the wiki leaks cables that general david petraeus who have the time was the cent com commander had conspired with president ali abdullah saleh of yemen to cover up the u.s. role in those strikes in fact i guess any official said if sala himself perpetrators will continue to lie and say the bombs are ours and not yours so i think that was the first incident that really put this independent journalist washington's radar into their target sites ok but at the same time you know this isn't the case of some pentagon bureaucrat sort of reaching out there and trying to suppress information this is the president of the united states himself intervening in endless case i mean for someone who's not familiar necessarily with the story

that would it lead people to think that this kind of have done something really bad what evidence this has the u.s. have and requiring that he remains behind bars but it's already a hider was famous for in yemen was doing interviews with people that were on the u.s. hipness the leaders of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and also with a u.s. citizen named anwar locky course was assassinated last september in a u.s. drone strike in yemen hyder interviewed anwar lockett number of times. in fact he was the first hurdle list to interview him after the fort hood shooting where major nidal hassan gunned down more than a dozen of his fellow soldiers in fort hood texas and in fact if you read the transcript or you watch the interview. with admiral rocky it's a very critical interview and it's it reads like an interviewer to check a journalist who was pressing a lockie with hard questions in fact one of the pieces of evidence and you can't really call it that because it's

a lot he was only convicted in the court of public opinion never in court but one of the things that was cited by the pro assassination punditry were comments that how lucky had made kabul the hider praising his sons' killing of these soldiers i bring that up because i will hide or was well known in the international press corps he had worked with the washington post he had been cited by the new york times at a.b.c. news as an al qaeda expert and so what i think the white house was concerned about is like a lockie they want to silence him i think that they were concerned that this was a guy who was telling the side of the story and they wanted it shut down and what's what's most outrageous for me as a as an american journalist is the role of the u.s. because what happened to see is that it was tried in a secret court n.e.m.a. that international legal organizations have said it's illegal and doesn't insure you process it was set up to go after journalists who criticize the regime he had

fabricated evidence produced against him he did not present at defense because he did not recognize the legitimacy of the court and human rights watch and other organizations criticized that court he gets convicted he was by the way charged with some crimes that carry the death penalty because everyone in yemen knew the whole thing was a sham of a setup he got a relatively light sentence five years ali abdullah saleh the president yemen is said approached by a very important figures and in yemen among them tribal leaders who really run the show there and they said you've got to release the. so solace is ok i'm going to pardon him he has the pardon prepared ready to sign it it leaks out to the yemeni press ali abdullah saleh gets a phone call from john brennan or one of obama's advisers for president obama himself and president obama separate very concerned about the release of this guy we don't know the full extent of what happened that phone call with the white house and state department back to interview the state department admit that obama in fact said the u.s. wants him to stay in jail and so the pardon was rescinded and he continues to rot

away in a prison after having been convicted in a kangaroo court and it's he's in prison because barack obama wants a new person i mean it sounds outrageous jeremy and the question comes to mind as to why we haven't heard about this earlier i mean we remember what happened when every man in the american journalist roxana saberi wasn't present to iran it was a huge media outcry laura ling and euna lee in north korea a huge media outcry lie are we not hearing about this here in the u.s. especially in light of the fact that the committee to protect journalists and amnesty international major groups have spoken out about this why isn't that media covering it here i think part of it has to do with the sort of institutional racism that has really come to the fore if his name was you know william smith kennedy and he was a white man and he had been arrested these charges instead of being. a muslim journalist so i think part of it is just the fact of the unfortunate nature of his national identity he's a devotee and he's a muslim but more to the point i think it's that

a lot of journalists are afraid to speak out in behalf of someone that has been accused of being pro-al qaida or being at al qaeda sports person you know i've talked with numerous people journalists who are state department officials people who knew her and they said this is complete nonsense that his journalism if anything it was that was the number one reason why we know anything at all about al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and so i think it's a combination of racism and the fact that. you are terrified right now of speaking out in defense of anyone accused of these kinds of terrorism related charges look at look at how long it took for that one ton of our prisoners to get any kind of representation from human rights groups only the center for constitutional rights and the u.k. group reprieve were here to defend once how to hold prisoners early on everyone else was terrified it's a part of the climate of fear that we're in and it's particularly shameful of media outlets that used. to get their scoops to be completely silent about his

imprisonment they have a they have an obligation to this man to speak out on his behalf and demand answers from the white house well we'll see i guess if the car crash picks up at all after today and after the release of peace but you know another thing i have to ask is do you think that it is this an isolated incident or is this something that could be the beginning perhaps a crack down on more than just some brown guy any damage and could journalists like yourself like myself like other in japan reporters get that and i guess this is a trend well you know i mean i think that his case is an extreme one where you have a kernel was actually being railroaded and then locked away in prison what i'm more concerned about for american journalists report is turn a list of your particular american journalists is that in this culture where this administration is going after whistleblowers in an unprecedented way we all have an obligation to protect our sources i have to say that i myself am really nervous about the safety of some of the people that i talk to not saying that they're going to offer their safety legally because this administration seems intent on going

after this sort lowers and so you know as a journalist that covers national security i'm talking all the time with people that work in the intelligence and the military community dissent stock waves through the community and so we as journalists have to be really sort of vigilant in protecting our sources jim arising from the new york plans for instance they're going after him right now because of this case involving thomas drake you know alleged s. a week or other turtle. sir facing threats of subpoenas people's twitter accounts are being subpoenaed so i think there's a general climate of fear that exists now in the world of national security journalism it's more i'm more concerned about sources that i am journalist being prosecuted right now i'm concerned about the fate of what sort of hours talking to journalists and the effect that that's going to have on how to govern craddock society when people can't speak out wrongdoings you know involving the government without fear of very very serious punishment eva seems really ironic to me because

for her you know there's this case and the u.s. going after this guy essentially because their argument is he's somehow boosting terrorism against the united states whereas as you've covered in yemen are drone strikes our policy is there specific actions of the u.s. as is his conducting right now that is in fact fueling terrorist sentiment against the u.s. a project i mean that's a that's a great point. here and i think we have. sort of captures the whole have caught the big c. of this all is that you have people like. the former bush how terrorism advisor had read well the former governor of the tom ridge the former governor of pennsylvania former head of progress security howard dean the former governor governor of vermont and a very prominent democrat these guys are all being advocates right now for the any case is state department terrorist the state department designated terrorist group they're all working for them to try to get them lifted off of this terrorism list

so they're allowed to walk around advocating for a group that the state department is identified as terrorist but i believe the higher share this journalist in yemen he committed the crime of exposing the u.s. bombing that killed civilians and interviewing someone one of them someone who happens to be a u.s. citizen that the u.s. wanted to be silenced and wanted to assassinate and he gets locked away in prison so the message there is that there are there are sort of good terrorists and bad terrorists and if you're a former of fish. well of the democratic or republican party you're allowed to advocate for people that a state department doesn't need a terrorist but if you're a journalist you're not allowed them but that's chilling that it has shill scene in yemen among journalists journalists are terrified right now to interview these people and their ultimate lead hurts the u.s. counterterrorism effort because you need to understand the mentality of the people that you claim to be fighting or you're never going to be able to address the problem so you're fighting so it's all right though so i think even from

a conventional even if you accept the framework of this global so-called war on terror but you're a supporter of these drone strikes you have just taken away word of your best opportunities to gather intelligence on the ground by putting in jail up a little hotter well it's an outrageous case chairmen are not the only one who's been covering it but we'll see how this story plays out and hopefully get some much needed attention right here in the u.s. thank you so much for your time as off always have a serious journalist for the nation and the author of blackwater right well from silencing critics abroad silencing those right here at home president obama promised transparency when he came into office today is ministration is increasingly regarded as the worst on issues related to freedom of information and of course transparency for a look at how and why this is happening i'm joined by jason leopold he's the lead investigative reporter at truthout hi jason welcome back to the program i want to begin with freedom of information act the senate is meeting today to talk about

freedom of information requests in light of it being sunshine week and all i know that you've. done quite extensive work on this issue there's a lawsuit at hand but talk to me a little bit about how this critical law is finding roadblocks i guess here in the u.s. by those who seek to use it to get information. sure well you know first of all when obama came into office he made these these promises he signed an executive order. promising to usher in a new error of open government transparency eric holder the attorney general. issued some new guidelines in march of two thousand and nine. what people seem to forget or may not even be aware may not be even aware of is that immediately after the administration released these memos these memos on the at the cia and the

justice department's office of legal counsel prepared and used for interrogation and torture the so-called torture memos and that was it the administration had clamped down on releasing anything else from that point on and that was back in april of two thousand and nine what the administration has done is anything that has to do with national security the so-called war on terror past administration abuses such as you know issues revolving around the patriot act this is ministration has contra corps has asserted state secrets to block the release of information. in shortly after these memos were released this administration had promised to release photographs photographs of that would depict the treatment of us or rather prisoners in custody of the united states government military in iraq and afghanistan there was

a huge outcry. and dick cheney and his daughter liz cheney had had to attack the administration for even considering to release those photos so what this administration had done is that they were preparing to go to the supreme courts to basically block the release of the photos because a low a lower court had ruled that they must be were. leased to the a.c.l.u. who had sought them and then they went and ended up working with congress and congress to change the law to be sickly change the freedom of information act that would allow anyone who sought such photographs or videos under the freedom of information act it allowed the secretary of defense to basically say no just this week ok just this week i mean this is. believe was on monday the administration the director of the justice department's office of information policy had got have again gone to congress and basically sought congress's assistance in changing

a lot or adding to a cyber security bill that would more or less and block information that people see under the freedom of information act again this was you know this is due to the fact that the supreme court ruled that such information should be released but there's this fear that if anything comes out it could damage near a security so be it if they're going to great lengths to pull lock any information that would reveal government activity but here's my question in your view you know why come into office and make this that top priority of the administration make this you know a key issue you think you talk about as soon as you literally enter the white house only to go back i mean what changed from obama's intentions to present day. i

think that a largely this has to do with with politics and truly it's nothing more than embarrassment the revelations that would be exposed that would be highlighted exposed from these documents that people would obtain under the freedom of information act would be truly embarrassing for this government it would probably lead to calls for investigation it would show in my opinion some extreme abuses of the of the law that the you know that the law was being abused i mean look if you recall when these justice department memos office of legal counsel memos were released i mean the blowback was. truly reached. you know a heated point where republicans attacked the administration they were accused of.

basically providing the enemy al qaeda with you know our our sources and methods and i think of ministration learned its lesson at that point in a learned its lesson by stating we are not going to release any information on certainly our national security. you know or the war on terror that would. reveal the way the you know the policies that were put into place to you know to to prosecute certain individuals to interrogate certain individuals. you know there there this administrator i think it it believed that it could make some changes but it it learned its lesson and i think that that moment in time when those memos were released that's when everything changed and we saw it happen with the photographs you know and again i just want to join and i'm so sorry i'm going to have you there unfortunately. out of time because i want to get to our next segment that will talk

about how this affects not only the folks here in america but in the u.k. as well so i do want to thank you for your time jason leopold the lead investigative reporter for truthout dot org thank you refusing found ability for the torture and other abuses committed in the name of counter terrorism isn't doesn't just corrode americans legal system it's hurting our allies as well but the u.k. is moving to expand the use of controversial secret hearings in national security cases to help keep a lid on torture committed at the hands of the americans and the use of british intelligence in colbert's u.s. drone strikes in pakistan is the subject of a new lawsuit by the civilian victims of those attacks don't expect any of that to be on the public agenda of today's meetings between president obama and the british prime minister david cameron is in town for a three day visit to reaffirm the so-called special relationship between the two countries this apparently entails watching a basketball game with the president eating hot dogs and later this evening

a glitzy state dinner reception now i would love to tell you what's on the menu but guess what that information is apparently secret too david cameron may be sipping on some expensive chardonnay this evening but no need to rub it in the face of struggling americans amid a recession because the price list for that is deemed secret let's talk a little bit more about the special relationship between the two countries for that i'm joined by investigative journalist and the author of the book one tunnel files and the worthington right across the pond in london and involved come back to the program what is your assessment of the special relationship between the u.s. and the u.k. today really need to prove to the world and to each other that. you know these two leaders are our friends and working lock and step or have have the country's policies proven that are ready. i think it's strange really i mean you know ever since nine eleven and the war on terror began first of all we had you know

a labor prime minister cozying up with a republican president now we've got a democratic president cozying up with a conservative prime minister and it doesn't seem to make much difference maybe all it demonstrates is how interchangeable these people become certainly there are you know pretty terrible reasons for obama and cameron to be close but you know they're both deeply involved in this horrible war that has gone on longer than any war that anyone can remember. that should have ended long ago they're also you know they were the countries at least were you know were hand in hand shoulder to shoulder with each other in countering terrorism and there is the involvement in torture and rendition in the darkest days of the war on terror and as i think you were hearing from my colleague jason just before and of course the obama administration has not wanted to open up about what took place in those years and the camera and only instruction here having initially appeared to favor transparency has now climbed up

as well and i want to talk sort of about how folks in the u.k. see this happening today do they see their own government is complicit in sort of this growing escalation in secrecy and clampdowns on the axis of information or do they see this as evidence of the u.k. for example being beholden perhaps to the u.s. somehow. well you know i would hope that in terms of accountability people in this country are aware that we have. demonstrably examples of an independent judiciary that actually exposed the complicity in torture of the previous labor government and you know that people will see that the attempts by the camera led government to impose greater secrecy across the board in british courts is a dangerous obstacle to truth seeking and accountability and that i hope the british people are sufficiently aware of the importance of keeping

a check on our elected leaders and that there will be combative you know and i hope so and we have certainly you know enough of an independent media probing news issues thirds of the something that i think people will be concerned about well you may have started talking may have an independent media but there is one case it's not a torture case by any means it's a copyright case but richard old wire was you know young kid u.k. citizen who was in file ation of us copyright laws and is now being extradited to the u.s. the u.k. for violating those copyright laws we're looking at photos of him right now i mean it would seem that based on your independent press over in the u.k. that this kind of thing is an outrage. well i think people are very concerned about various issues to do with the extradition treaty and i'm very glad that you asked me about that because you know we believe that to some extent this may take part in

some kind of discussions between the two leaders although you know i can't see that it will be given much precedence by either of them but yeah extradition treaty that the u.k. has with the u.s. . you know this terrible one sided affair whereby nothing really needs to be put forward in the way of evidence for the british to have to hand people over for prosecution in the united states and what keeps happening over and over again and the fundamental problem is that if these are people who have committed some kind of crime if true where they are then those things should be dealt with there and the actual decision treaty just seems overload. is that it's actually removing people unnecessarily and dangerously i think from from the place where they they actually should be dealt with and i mean it's not just the case of this young man that you're talking about lower course that's very very relevant that's not what we have other issues like. for example there's a young man who has spent eight years in

a british jail without charge or trial pending his intended extradition to the united states you know these are these are terrible issues but as i say i'm not convinced they're going to be discussed much the same as i'm not convinced that all david cameron will raise the issue of shaka armor who is the last british resident in guantanamo who neither the u.s. government wants to hold you know and the british government wants it back he's been five years this has been going on the u.s. doesn't want him the british wants him back why is he still have a look only when these guys meet and never discussed it so i wouldn't imagine that some of these you know rather terrible instances of people's lives being ruined unnecessarily i get really the kind of things that are on the agenda while they're busy watching sporting matches. and whenever you're sort of doing it well and unfortunately we're out of time but even if they were on the edge and it looks like we probably won't know about it because of those wonderful secrecy about us here in

the u.s. thank you so much andy we're going to end the author of one tunnel thought unfortunately unfortunately it hasn't for now will be back in about a half an hour but for now stay tuned for the capital account of warren lister i'm lucy catherine of siena. but wealthy british scientists. sometimes see the tight.

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