these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. showing corporations rule today. tonight in our t.v. freedom of the press for all except those who publish inconvenient truths and independent reporters behind bars in yemen at the personal request of the u.s. president an exclusive look at this case and of why you probably never heard of it until today. and nearly a decade after its inception the international critical to the criminal court has a limited first verdict but you know what we're not going to talk about that we are going to talk about drone war secrecy and transparency all in honor of sunshine a week. plus the brits may have burned washington back anything in twelve but

these days the two countries are burning with love with one another but these friends with benefits may be sharing more than goodwill some nasty practices like secrecy torture spying and shady extraditions going to read examine the u.s. and u.k. special relationship. anything it's wednesday march fourteenth five pm here in washington d.c. i'm lucy cough and open you're watching our t.v. . well in honor of sunshine week we're dedicating today shows to the issues of government secrecy transparency justice and the rule of law we're going to look at how transparency doesn't necessarily seem to apply to a growing a list of u.s. activities whether it's secret prisons torture drone wars the white house approach seems to be is stay silent and to make damn sure that others do to those who blow the whistle on wrongdoing well they suffer dire consequences in courts and of

course there's always the fourth estate the media but even here the watchdogs are often drowned out by the lapdogs and for this journalists unfortunately themselves are to blame the us record on press freedom may be somewhat questionable but it's certainly not in dire crisis yet i mean it's not like journalists are regularly rounded up and thrown behind bars for doing their jobs right it wasn't just a few weeks ago that jay carney reassured us about the president's commitment to quote aggressive journalism abroad now i bring these questions up because they're at the core of the case of build a law how dare she and independent a yemeni reporter who's been languishing behind bars at the personal request of president barack obama has respected for his coverage of the war on terror he has interviewed al qaeda leaders including ones the u.s. has been hunting and he was also the first to detail the u.s. role in bombings that killed many civilians including children back in two thousand and nine and while he was imprisoned on terror charges he was pardoned after

a national outcry so why does the u.s. want this guy behind bars well for the answer and for the broader war of secrecy i'm joined by scott horton he's a contributing editor of harper's magazine and scott welcome to the program started change things up on the last minute but let's talk about this piece and before we get to the actual drone war what's the biggest significance in your view of this case why why would the hue us be interested in keeping some journalist in yemen of all places behind bars. well it appears that the obama administration places great value on keeping its deal with yemen secret and he was working on the ground in in yemen doing in fact exceptional work in revealing what was going on he was tracking the presence of american military and covert operatives there he was also traveling to the sites of many of these strikes interviewing people who witnessed

whether the kurds and in fact are tracking down in interviewing are more a lark even if he was the last person to speak to him before it was revealed that even that this muslim cleric who was born in new mexico was himself a target so really there was no journalist working in yemen who was doing a more thorough job of exposing the truth and sclera that the u.s. didn't like this the u.s. was very unhappy about the u.s. money keep a curtain drawn over everything and they were very angry at him for telling the truth or sensually revealing what was going on and in your view is this something that sort of an isolated unfortunate incident or or do you see any sort of trend with actual efforts by this administration to sort of silence those who criticize. paris saying or sensitive information like drone warfare. well actually it

links back to a number of incidents of the kurds in the prior administration when when don rumsfeld was running the pentagon he took a very aggressive posture against journalists on the battlefield who are reporting news that he didn't like and there were in fact the. pulitzer prize winning photographer for the a.p. camera man for c.b.s. two reporters for reuters a number of reporters for al-jazeera were swept up and arrested held in a couple of cases for a year or longer in u.s. detention accused of being in cahoots with with terrorists because of what they reported and every case these accusations were alternately proved to be absolutely bogus and without any basis in fact and the journalist had to be released but

nevertheless the acts the act of seizing him in prison in the journalist sent a clear message to the press corps and it was a message that would have focused always on the local hire journalists never someone who came from europe of the united states but someone who was hard locally and of course because of the danger of about a field the situation is very difficult for media organizations to operate in places like yemen iraq or afghanistan without relying very heavily on local so this was an effort to to silence effectively major press organizations and i have to ask i mean because if we look at cases of american reporters being are imprisoned by broad for example the two american journalists for current who are north korea there's also the case of oksana five everyone who has detained in iran for a for quite a while back a huge media story here in the u.s. out why do you think these cases especially the the cmin case how that really got

much attention here. well they haven't up to this point i mean i think you know jeremy scahill has written a really fabulous piece on this that's just appeared in the nation and the stirring up some attention to it but in general you're right and in general i think it tracks the white house in official government reporting so i think we have a lot of people in the media here who are really reluctant ever to cross the administration on its characterization of the situation then you know i found that when i was studying the situation in iraq i was really shocked how even media organizations that were being victimized would nevertheless faithfully report every completely erroneous and the the outrageous statement they came out of the pentagon about their own fellow workers and then the when. you know when the truth finally came out after trial and we got acquittals and release ordered this figure it is

a very minor in consequential press story unlike the original arrest in the government charges so i think there's a structural problem here in the way the news is related well and that really plays into coverage of the new type of warfare these covert drone wars because you know you sort of talked about. the mainstream press parroting the pentagon point of view but one of the things that this yemeni reporter uncovered for example was the u.s. role in the bombings in two thousand and nine that actually ended up killing several civilians twenty something i think twenty one children the u.s. media coverage during that time was you know yemeni drones or yemeni attacks kill militants right so let's let's let's switch the conversation let's broaden it out and talk a little bit about our treatment in the press of the new covert drone warfare and how that me be having blowback if that's ok for the united states. well

i think one thing that's really remarkable is that inside the united states if you look at this reporting of attacks the american media reports pretty much what the intelligence community wants them to report and that's have line may be we get a little bit from the scene coming a little bit later but the but that's not reported heavily so you know generally if we look at the grown more impacts them for instance there's been better more comprehensive and more timely reporting about what's happened there inside of pakistan than in the united states now what's the reason for this the reason is that. the administration believes or takes the position that the drone war is covert so therefore it can't be the sky and therefore it doesn't want the issue official statement so it's only these not for attribution briefings they get out

there and the american media falls in place behind that or as the media in pakistan or you know people like this a prison reporter in yemen you know didn't play that game they went out and dealt with things the hard way they went to the villages they interviewed people of a snow day snap photographs and so forth and they reported the actual facts and it's clear that you know the truth in this case is in the enemy the end of the day there's there's an internal war going on in washington to hear the cia in order to maintain control this program has to keep covert action it's not covert action it becomes a military projects and cia has a huge vested interest in keeping everything secret in quotes well i mean the question comes to mind is who the secrecy is supposed to pull because it's not like folks on the ground in yemen or in pakistan truly believe that this isn't happening they physically visually see the results if the american public that seems to suffer and at the end of the day it's this kind of covert warfare that's not only

a better recruiting tool for al qaeda than anything for an independent journalist can publish in yemen could ever be it just seems like it's defeating our own interests. well that's that's exactly right i mean there's no question the question from whom is this being kept the secret it's not being kept the secret from the people who are targeted they know all about it and they know there's nothing they can do about it effectively it's not being kept secret from the people in pakistan or yemen they know about it it's only been kept the secret from the people in the united states to avoid this whole issue and all the legal and ethical questions about drones to avoid that becoming a political question in the united states all right well scott i really want to thank you for your time we always appreciate having you on and we change things around at the last minute there so thank you so much as always for your insight all . input scott horton contributing editor for harper's magazine

all right well you just heard scott talk about the article by jeremy scahill in the nation magazine about the situation in yemen and president obama's personal interference to keep this independent journalism behind bars while jeremy joined me just about a half an hour i go we talked about the story and i first asked him why the world superpower the united states would have a vested interest in keeping some independent journalist in yemen behind bars so here's your nice take on. well the united states has been waging a covert war in yemen for a number of years in fact president obama really escalated back over or the first bombing of yemen that we know the president obama authorized was on december seventeenth two thousand and nine and the way it was reported in the press was that it was a yemeni strike and that thirty four al qaida members were killed in that strike and because of this journalist that's a lot higher going to the same taking photographs that are sending them to media

outlets but ultimately the amnesty international the world learned that it back to the u.s. bombing because they were promised a cluster bomb neither of which seven has been its arsenal and of course after the hider revealed that we've been learning through the wiki leaks cables that general david petraeus about the time was the commander had conspired with president ali abdullah saleh of yemen to cover up the u.s. role in those strikes in fact the yemeni official said. the trip will continue to lie the bombs are ours and not yours so i think that was the first incident that really put that in the kind of journalist washington's radar it is their target ok but at the same time you know this isn't a case of some pentagon bureaucrats sort of reaching out there and trying to suppress information this is the president of the united states himself intervening and in this case i mean. for someone who is not familiar necessarily with

a story that went to lead people to think that this kind of thing done something really bad what evidence that's that the u.s. have and requiring that he remains behind bars so what i believe the hider with famous for in yemen was doing interviews with people that were on the u.s. hit with the leaders of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and also with the u.s. that it's been named anwar losey course would a fascinated last september in a u.s. drone strike in yemen abu either interviewed anwar lockett number of times. in fact he was the first journalist to interview him after the fort hood shooting where major nidal hassan gunned down more than a dozen of his fellow soldiers and for good practice and in fact if you read the transcript or you watch the interview below hyder did it without moral rocking it's a very critical interview it reads like an interview over the objective journalist who is pressing the rocky with hard questions in fact one of the pieces of evidence

and you can't really call it back with a lot he was only convicted in the court of public opinion never inquired but one of the things that was cited by the prolix fascination punditry were comments that a lot he had made probably well either praising the dollhouse killing of these soldiers i bring that up because i believe either was well known in the international press corps he has worked with the washington post had been cited by the new york times at a.b.c. news as about high experts and so what i think the white house was concerned about is like a lock you they want to silence him i think that they were concerned that this was a guy who was telling al qaeda side of the story and they wanted to shut down and what's what's most outrageous for me as a as an american journalist is the role of the u.s. because what happened to see is that i believe either was tried in a secret court in yemen that international legal organization perspective illegal it doesn't ensure due process it was set up to go after journalists who criticize

the regime he had fabricated evidence produced against them he did not present a defense because he did not recognize the legitimacy of the court and human rights watch and other organizations criticize that court he gets convicted he was a great charge with some crimes that carries the death penalty because everyone in yemen knew the whole thing was a sham and a setup he got a relatively light sentence five years out of the us dollar the president damages that approach by very important figures in in yemen among the tribal leaders who really run the show there and they said you've got to release this guy. so it's always says ok i've got a partner he has the pardon prepared ready to sign it it leaks out to the yemenis pressed then i would go a call i get the phone call from john brennan or one of obama's advisors or president obama himself and president obama said we're very concerned about the release of this guy we don't know the full extent of what happened that phone call but the white house and apartment got to interview the state department admitted obama the fact that the u.s. wanted to stay in jail until the pardon was rescinded and he continues to rot away

in a prison after having been convicted in a kangaroo court and if he's in prison because barack obama wants him in prison i mean it sounds outrageous jeremy and the question comes to mind is why we haven't heard about this earlier i mean we remember what happened when every man in the primary concern was struck fantasising really wasn't present in iran it was a huge media outcry and laura ling and euna lee and north korea a huge media outcry why are we not hearing about this here in the u.s. especially in light of the fact that the committee to protect journalists and amnesty international major groups have spoken out about this why isn't the media covering it here i think part of it has to do with the sort of institutional racism that is really come to the fore if his name was you know william kennedy and he was a light bad and good but arrested these charges instead of being a girl either a muslim journalist i think part of it is just the fact working with nature of his that you identity but yet he had he from or from the board of the i think that

a lot of journalists are afraid to speak out in behalf of someone. being profiled haida or being al qaida or person you know i've talked with numerous people journalists former state department officials people who do below the hider i think this is complete nonsense that his journalism if anything was that was the number one reason why we have anything at all about either me arabian peninsula and so i think it's a combination of racism and the fact that people are too. right now of speaking out of defense of anyone accused of these kinds of terrorist related charges look at look at how wrong it took for that one possible prisoner to get any kind of representation from human rights groups only the better for constitutional rights and the u.k. group or pre-u. with their just a fad was how to preserve early on everyone else was terrified of perfectly but it's clear that we're and it's particularly shameful of media outlets that used to

either get their scoop to be completely silent about one person but they have a have an obligation to this man to speak out on his behalf and demand answers from the white house well we'll see i guess if the congress picks up it all after today and actually stand peace but you know another thing i have to ask is do you think it is this an isolated incident or is this something that could be the beginning perhaps of a crackdown on more than just brown guy any again and can journalists like yourself like myself like other instead of reporters get that trend well you know i mean i think that his case is an extreme one where you have a journalist actually being railroaded and then locked away in prison what i'm more concerned about for american journalists purpose journalists particularly american journalists is that in this culture where the ministration is going after whistleblowers in an unprecedented way we all have an obligation to protect our sources i have to say that i myself am really nervous about the safety of some of the people that i thought to be the thing that they're going to go to the office of

safety legally because this administration has been going after well for blowers and so as a journalist to cover special security i'm talking about all the time with people that work in the intelligence and the military community it is that shockwave through that community and so we as journalists have to be really sort of vigilant in protecting our sources jim rising from the new york times for him and they're going after him right now because of this case involving thomas drake alleged as a week or other journalists are paid. i think breathless subpoena people twitter accounts of being subpoenaed so i think there's a general climate of fear that that exists now in the world especially for the journalism it's more i'm more concerned about sources that i am journalist being prosecuted right now i'm concerned about the fate of what the role is talking to journalists and the effect that that's going to have on a democratic society when people can speak out of wrongdoing you know involving the government without fear of very very serious punishment

a just seems really ironic to me because we're going to you know there's this case of us going after this guy essentially because their argument is he's somehow boosting terrorism against the united states whereas as you've covered yemen our drone strikes our policy is there are specific actions that the u.s. is conducting right now that is in fact fueling terrorist sentiment against the u.s. and prospects i mean that's that's a great point about. here i think we have a sort of captures the whole hip hop the big cock receive this all is that you have people like. the former bush counterterrorism adviser at grand isle governor of the congress the former governor persuade your former head of progress thirty howard dean the former government governor and a very prominent democrat these guys are all being advocates right now for the any case that the department terrorists that they start with as if it is a terrorist group and they're all working for them to try to get them lifted off of

this terrorism with so there are allowed to walk around advocating for a group that the state department identified a terrorist but i believe the hydrogen this journal with the jasmine you committed the crime of exposing the u.s. bombing that killed civilians and interviewing someone one of. them that the u.s. wanted to i wouldn't have wanted to assassinate and he just blocks away in prison so the message there is that there are good terrorists and bad terrorists and if you're official at the. a credit to republican party you're allowed to advocate for people that are state park that doesn't pay the terrorists if you're a journalist you're not allowed to interview them that's chilling that it has still been seen in yemen among journalists journalists are terrified right now to interview these people and they're ultimately it hurts the u.s. counterterrorism effort because you need to understand the power of the. people that you claim to be fighting or you're never going to be able to address the problem say you're fighting to survive out so a medic even for

a conventional you know if you accept the framework of this global so-called war on terror and you're a supporter of these drone strikes you have just taken away one of your best opportunities to gather intelligence on the ground by putting in jail at a level higher fat well it's an outrageous case jeremy i know you're not the only one who's been covering it but we'll see how the story plays out and hopefully get some much needed attention right here in the u.s. thank you so much for your time is off always have a shammy scale journalist for the nation and the author flatwater. well british british forces may have torched washington d.c. back in eight hundred twelve but it's safe to say that the leaders of the two countries are burning with a love for one another two centuries later the british prime minister david cameron is in town today it's part of a three day visit to to reaffirm the so-called special relationship between the u.s. and the u.k. now apparently this entails watching a basketball game with the president munching on a hot dogs and later this evening

a glitzy state dinner reception now there will be no expense spared presumably but guess what the wine list this secret happy transparency week everyone now sadly it looks like secrecy fever has taken hold across the pond as well an act of accountability for abuses committed in the name of counter terrorism is rubbing off on the u.k. cameron's government is moving to expand the use of controversial secret hearings in national security cases all in order to keep a lid on torture committed at the hands of americans separately but still importantly the use of british intelligence in code words and u.s. drone strikes in pakistan is now the subject of a new lawsuit by the civilian victims of those attacks and it's almost like the two countries are mirroring mirroring one another's bad habits and that of the good ones that make them united in democracy right well that's a good journalist and author of one ton a mole files and the worthington joins me a little earlier from london to talk about this and we discussed the special

relationship between the u.s. and the u.k. and i asked them whether it seemed to him like they've just been working in lock step take a look. i think it's strange really i mean you know ever since nine eleven the war on terror began first of all we had you know a labor prime minister cozying up with a republican president now we've got a democratic president cozying up with a conservative prime minister it doesn't seem to make much difference maybe all it demonstrates is how interchangeable these people become certainly there are you know pretty terrible reasons for a farmer and cameron to be close but you know they're both deeply involved in this horrible war that has gone on longer than any war that anyone can remember. that should have ended long ago they're also you know they were but the country's at least were you know were hand in hand shoulder to shoulder with each other in countering terrorism and there is the involvement in torture and rendition in the

darkest days of the war on terror and as i think you were hearing from my colleague jason just before and of course the obama administration has not wanted to open up about what took place in those years and the camera no ministration here having initially appeared to favor transparency has no clout as well and i want to talk sort of about how folks in the u.k. see this i mean today do they see their own governments as complicit in sort of this growing us mention in secrecy and in clampdowns on the absence of information or did they see this as evidence of the u.k. for example being beholden perhaps to the u.s. . well you know i would hope that in terms of accountability people in this country are aware that we have. demonstrably examples of an independent judiciary that actually exposed the complicity in torture of of the previous labor government and you know that people will see that the attempts by the cameron led government

to impose greater secrecy across the board in british courts is a dangerous obstacle to truth seeking and accountability and that i hope the british people are sufficiently aware of the importance of keeping a check on our elected leaders will be combative you know and i hope so and we have certainly you know enough of an independent media probing these issues for example something that i think people will be concerned about i mean i've started talking may have an independent media but there is one case it's not a torture case by by any means a copyright case but richard old wire was you know young kid u.k. citizen who was in file ation of the u.s. copyright laws and is now being extradited to the u.s. but the u.k. for violating those copyright laws we're looking at photos of him right now i mean

it would seem a based on your independent press over in the u.k. that this kind of thing is an outrage. well i think people are very concerned about various issues to do with the actual addition treaty and i'm very glad that you asked me about that because you know we we believe that to some extent this may take part in some kind of discussions between the two leaders alone you know i can see that it will be given precedence by either of them the extradition treaty that the u.k. has with the u.s. . you know this terrible one sided affair whereby nothing really needs to be put forward in the way of evidence for the british to have to hand people over for prosecution in the united states and what keeps happening over and over again and the fundamental problem is that if these are people who have committed some kind of crime in exactly where they are then those things should be dealt with there and the extradition treaty just seems overload is or is that is actually removing

people unnecessarily and dangerously i think from the from the place where they they actually should be and i mean it's not just the case of this young man that you're talking about well course that's very very relevant it's now but we have other issues like that like barbara where for example was a young man who has spent eight years in a british jail without charge or trial pending his intended extradition to the united states you know these are these are terrible issues but as i say i'm not convinced they're going to be discussed much the same as i'm not convinced that all but david cameron will raise the issue of shaka armor who is the last british resident in guantanamo who neither the u.s. government wants to hold. and the british government wants him back he's been five years this has been going on the u.s. doesn't want him the british wants him back. but on the writings on the archive one tunnel are. hardened and have either fam.