i am. ok back to the big picture i'm tom hartman coming up in this half hour when president obama won the nobel peace prize he said that we as a people will not be able to eradicate war in our lifetimes is that really true my next guest doesn't think so but talk about a future rooted in peace and just about and as nice daily take fossil fuels are

rooted in the past and so is america's energy policy how is one nation investing in their energy future and when will washington decide to do the same thing. as the rest of the news tragically americans are conditioned to expect war during their lifetimes basically from the day we're born or live century america has been involved over a dozen different wars or conflicts for a period of about fifty three years and ever since reagan invented grenada each new american president has started it is all a war abroad first bush went into iraq clinton went to kosovo second bush went to afghanistan and iraq again and president obama went into libya and continues the so-called war on terror and other places like somalia yemen and pakistan but two decades of seemingly never ending war in america mean that war is inevitable did we

ever live in a society where war was not the norm but instead the exception joining me now to discuss this is john horgan science journalist and director of the center for science writings of stevens's to technology and the author of several books including his latest the end of war john welcome. nice to be here very very pleased to have you with us what did you set out to prove in your book the end of war. well first of all the reason i wrote the book was because i discovered in doing surveys over the past seven or eight years that the basque majority of people eighty or ninety percent of the thousands of people i surveyed are extremely pessimistic about the prospects for humanity overcoming war and militarism once and for all this is all people it's conservatives as well as liberals young old male female think that war is a permanent part of the human condition you mention that barack obama alluded to

this view in his nobel peace prize speech of all places and many people who have this pessimistic view have a belief that science has proved that war is part of human nature that males in particular have some kind of innate three dissed disposition to band together and groups and go out and and kill other people so i decided to write a book to rebut this and other. pseudo scientific views that have led people to have this extremely fatalistic view of workfare you know reading some years ago reading jefferson thomas jefferson's journals he talked about two pieces this one was one hundred years earlier john bradford had the pilgrim founder and warrior had had participated in one of the first wars against the indians and one

of the ngos there was a people what wars and the indians that they had as their elegant allies as i recall was the narragansetts were horrified by european basically genocidal war they they they were so horrified by it that they chose to have nothing to do with us and jefferson noted that the that the iroquois was five nations in the northeast they settled their conflicts by playing games by playing lacrosse they had invented that and. kind of wondered out loud is it possible that the actual nature of man of human kind is not to be warriors is that it does that inform the kind is that is that the kind of thing that you're talking about in and my past being prelude to the future. absolutely there are some very prominent scientists today for some reason of them happen to be at harvard these are scientists like richard wrangham the anthropologist steven pinker the psychologist the great biologist edward wilson

they have been saying that word goes as far back into human prehistory as you can look and even before that all the way to the common ancestor that humans share with chimpanzees but the fact is that real evidence of work there is quite recent war only extends back about ten thousand years ago it did emerge in very simple tribal societies and it spread rapidly around the globe but then you have many cases of societies stopping their fighting and becoming peaceful birch really overnight was what we are to me as a complete refutation of the idea that war is innate and very deeply biologically based you also have examples in modern history of very sophisticated societies becoming peaceful after many many years of waging war sweden and switzerland are two examples another one that i really like is costa rica which

emerged from a very bloody civil war in the one nine hundred forty s. and decided to disband its army which it realized had been a source of internal conflict and bloodshed rather than protecting it from its enemies and costa rica and vested those resources in that had been spent on military funding in education and infrastructure and tourism and now costa rica. regularly ranks among the happiest nations on earth so i think there are lots of pieces of evidence to refute this idea that war is something that is so deeply ingrained in us. that we can never transcend. and in fact again to go back to jefferson a. because he's the he was the first i think american scientist really who was looking at this in seven hundred eighty seven and his correspondence with james

madison when medicine was holding right the constitution he begged him to append a a bill of rights and he wanted one of those to be that during times of peace there would be no standing armies it would be like to wreak it that the army would be done away with and he was he was so certain that this was possible and yet you know it didn't happen how do we bring this guy. i am i am sure that jefferson the founding fathers would be horrified to see the immense size of the military industrial complex that we have in the united states now the united states as you probably know spends as much on weaponry and armies as the rest of the world combined. and it appears that we're you know we're prepared to fight everybody out there and terrorists and we've we've built up this enormous this enormous military and the fact is that then it becomes self-perpetuating we're looking for

enemies we're desperate to try and enemies to justify this enormous spending i'm really hopeful that the united states though which is a big part of the problem of the persistence of militarism in the world and it's been so hard case lately with some courageous imaginative leadership can help lead the rest of the world past war and militarism and help us find solutions to difficult problems like what's happening in syria right now what happened in libya a couple of months ago these are problems that we so often try to solve with force which often makes them. even more intractable we just have to use our imagination to try to find nonviolent solutions to these problems and gradually move away past the era of militarism and i really think it can happen congressman

dennis kucinich some years ago propose that we should have an actual cabinet level department of peace that there should be somebody sitting around that table with the president whenever he meets with his cabinet whose sole job is to say wait a minute has anybody thought about peace we think about that. could idea could send it to somebody i have a lot of admiration for you are branded as a flake if you talk in those terms. as a pacifist who has a naive romantic completely unrealistic picture. of the way things work in international relations but i think it's obvious at this point that war is so counterproductive it's totally irrational as well as being immoral of the cost of war. outweigh any possible benefits the united states regularly harms its moral standing in the world with its drone assassinations and it cements the military so

i think for many reasons we have to find a way past this current era so we'll see john horgan thank you so much for dropping by and for writing this brilliant work my pleasure one of the biggest hurdles in achieving a peaceful society and stopping the gun violence the plagues our nation's streets no case better demonstrates this than the tragic story of young trayvon martin in spasm of national paranoia and promoted by the american legislative exchange council you know the koch brothers alec since the summer of two thousand and five sixteen states have no adopted shoot first laws like the one the florida adopted in two thousand and five this it used to be in america that if you killed somebody you had to demonstrate that you had a reasonable fear that they were going to harm you now you don't have to prove that you can merely assert it little wonder that the st petersburg times founded five years after the law was signed by then governor jeb bush who called it

a good common sense is our crime bill claims of justifiable homicides in florida have more than tripled from just over thirty per year average to more than one hundred twenty. in that time the so-called stand your ground defense was used in ninety three cases involving sixty five deaths in a majority of those cases it actually worked killers got off police and prosecutors across the country have condemned these laws but been ignored by people frightened by watching too many try and t.v. shows and listening to politicians who basically just pander to fear the reality is and we did a show about this a week or two ago the just pulling out all the numbers the reality is that right now america's murder rate is lower than it's been any time in the last half half century it's almost half of the peak that we reached right around the end of the reagan administration the murder rate had gone up consistently through the reagan administration clinton came into office started falling and has been falling ever

since we are safer than we've ever been but fear still sounds and fear combined of the shoot first laws allows people like george zimmerman who had a history of calling nine eleven over forty times in various figures and a semiautomatic pistol allows them to. here's what it sounded like. one screaming outcry when you don't know why i don't know why. i don't. want to play. if you were hurt. i can't stand i don't want to go out there on the prime. yeah i know yeah but if you're. right there's gunshots. he said gunshots yet. the state has now empowered a grand jury to look into the case but only because of the national publicity how many more kids actually minority kids are going to be murdered by frightened men

like zimmerman before these laws that give killers immunity are hispanic. coming up and sides daily take there are two countries one is focused on the future and is investing heavily on the other is attached to the past unable to make the changes in investments need to move ahead which one do you think is america i'll tell you after the break. the faith.

he. says.

your take my take is your chance to send in your questions comments ranson observations about anything we talk about here in the big picture or during my radio show our conference a night came into our viewer rant line from

a caller in tucson arizona suggestion liberals should be killed it's particularly interesting here is that throughout his entire rant he offers not one single specific where he disagrees with me about policy doesn't say things medicare should be about your eyes or iran should be bombed or anything of substance all he does is call names and express hatred i find this fascinating this odd psychology and frankly a bit tragic that the right wing hate machine in america has become so good at producing this sort of twisted hatred he will listen here to scared to totally uninformed you know that goes against anything you have to say. you little people mislead everybody and make it sound like it's david first. all you do is split the country up into different sections. as long as the country is not united democrats liberal describe

a the democrats can run around with their hand out and have all they want to give in to for no. real americans stand united and fix our problems we don't give things away to ourselves of big pat on the back and we don't point the finger at ourselves saying. we're the bad guys. twisted people. progressive should be ashamed of this people. from i take your take if you like your comments and questions heard on this side of the big picture. we want to know your take send us your comments by visiting the tom hartman facebook page by a twitter at tom underscore her or in the chat room on the message boards or through the blog at tom hartman dot com you can also leave a message on our rant line at two to three six fifty three zero six agree disagree

sound off it's all welcome but remember that your comments may be used on the air. just. as the good the bad in the very very valid to marry a silly ugly or good senate democrats senate democrats are again trying to repeal the tax incentives given to big oil senator menendez of new jersey introduced a bill monday that would eliminate incentives for big oil and sent as they call them i call them welfare and use the additional revenue to help fund renewable energy sources the bill would repeal around two billion dollars in big oil welfare and well rates and billions of dollars in profits every year we certainly don't need any more of our money money saved by cutting back on this corporate welfare for the oil industry can be used to invest in a green technology in renewable energy sources that our country desperately need for the senate democrats to push this bill was

a bad ricky santorum campaign eleanore yesterday santorum said this to a crowd of supporters. i don't care what the unemployment rate's going to be doesn't matter to me my campaign doesn't hinge on unemployment rates and growth rates. something more foundation. that's going on here. let me get this right mr santorum wants to be president of a country dealing with a struggling economy yet he doesn't care about one of the biggest issues keeping the economy down millions of people across america are unemployed barely able to get by did a they need someone who is going to get them back to work so they can survive not someone who's going to write them off in some huge anti-gay crusade. we need another reason to see that conservatives are out of touch with america and the very very ugly chicago police two members of a chicago television station were told by an irritable cop on sunday that your first amendment rights can be terminated if you're creating

a scene or whatever. reporters are outside a hospital trying to cover the shooting death of a little girl police officer continue to threaten the reporters with arrest that they didn't leave and eventually detained them although he did let them off the charges journalists all over the nation are increasingly subject to the use of excessive force by police freedom of the press is one of the pillars of this country was built and police trying to crack down on such a fundamental right is very very. it's night i have a tale of two cities actually two countries for you germany germany and the united states one country is preparing for a future in which their children will receive clean air and lead the world's

economy and the other is preparing for a future in which their children will choke on polluted air and fall behind the rest of the world global economy how so. germany just announced a two hundred sixty billion dollar investment a new energy that's eight percent of their g.d.p. with a goal of getting eighty percent of the nation's energy from wind and solar this is the largest investment in energy that germany has made since world war two and they're even making this investment right in the middle of a financial crisis sweeping europe why is germany gets it no nation in the history of the world has ever cut its way to prosperity just look at greece trying to do it failed so germany knows that the only way to get out of his crisis is to grow their way out of it to come out in the end of it a better stronger and wealthier nation through government investments in the future germany is going to build offshore wind farms covering areas six times larger in

this than the size of new york city they're going to put up thousands and thousands of miles of new power lines to modernize their energy grid enough new smart grid power lines that if they were stretched out the simple line would reach from london all the way to baghdad and prompted by the fukushima disaster last year germany is shutting down seventeen nuclear reactors supply about a fifth of all the electricity in their nation and replacing those reactors with the wind farms and solar panels that they're now building german leaders know this is a big gamble and the sacrifices will need to be made to make it work including higher taxes on the wealthy and temporarily higher energy costs for consumers but they're moving forward with a plan anyway or perhaps because because all the madly it's in the best interest of their nation to do so and most importantly is in the best interest of german future generations so the question we should be asking ourselves right now here is

what is the united states going to do to prepare for a future with renewable energy tragically not much. last month president obama put forward a budget that included massive increases in renewable energy to make the united states like germany eighty percent powered by renewables by twenty thirty five that budget unfortunately was declared dead on arrival by republicans in congress and today republican budget chairman paul ryan released his budget that includes massive cuts to existing renewable energy programs calling saying that president obama was recklessly spending on un competitive alternatives. but on competitive alternatives ryan's referring to things like wind and solar which would be cheaper today the nuclear oil or coal it government subsidies for these dangerous including energy sources one way or ryan keeps in place the government subsidies for nuclear oil and coal he only wants to get rid of anything that might encourage solar wind

ryan said his plan would promote policies aimed at real are of all energy as in we don't well burns it's reliable so let's keep investing in it until there's no more left only that will germany will build wind farms the dwarf manhattan republicans in congress are still hell bent on extending the keystone x.l. pipeline to transport last century's energy source fossil fuels across our nation for export out of taxes and each time progressives and president obama push for new investments in green energy they're met with unanimous republican filibusters in the senate an outright rejection in the tea party controlled oil soaked house of representatives calls to invest invest invest are met with calls to drill baby drill and when it's pointed out that these investments are crucial to the prosperities of future generations the conservatives simply say oh we can't afford to make a better world for our kids square on so how the hell can germany which is footing

the bill to bail out the rest of europe afford it the answer is because everyone is working together in germany. as peter terry i'm the c.e.o. of germans second largest private energy company r w e said the german energy transformation is as challenging as the first moon landing it's a huge challenge will be able to master only if everyone works together that's coming from one of germany's biggest coal and oil barons we can only imagine what our nation would be capable of if our coal and oil barons and massey and exxon mobil and chevron were to put aside two thirds for more instant profits cut back on their lobbying for more and more subsidies and actually work with all of us to invest in the future of america since one of our national pride our desire to leave a better planet for our nation to work and nations who to our kids be replaced by

the singular goal of maximizing profits for today's c.e.o.'s the really sad part of this is we had to jump on germany more than thirty years ago and president jimmy carter put solar panels on the white house and introduced a comprehensive energy plan to get america off its addiction to foreign oil and on to renewable energies here's what he told the nation in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight. he's in the midst of the movie it is you who directed a shrinking resources. and i can live we can control the patients to the good in control of we've always been proud of our leadership in the world and now we have achieved it again and give the world a positive example who always been proud of the vision of the people who go we want to give our children graduate with a world richer in possibilities and we have good osu. who they are the ones who was so moved if we were. in that same speech president carter

said that he was passing legislation and he did. that would make sure that america would never import more oil and we had in one nine hundred seventy seven and that by the year two thousand he was put into place legislation to create a national solar banks of the by the year two thousand and twenty percent of all the electricity the united states would be created by solar power and it would have put two years later ronald reagan moved into the white house to put solar panels off the roof of the white house scrapped carter's energy plan we haven't had a national energy policy since the reagan committed our nation to sucking on oil for the next three decades and for thirty years republicans in congress have killed any attempt by democrats to put forward plans for a clean energy future and so today we stand here still choking on pollution still

drilling for more oil still fall in the gulf coast and falling behind nations like germany denmark and china when it comes to new energy investments human history tells a story of empires collapsing and they fail to prepare for a new energy revolution from wood to colder oil to now renewables and without a truly revolutionary investment in new energies the united states will suffer the same fate in the coming years. that's it for the big picture and i don't forget democracy begins with you it begins when you show up when you participate when you contact your member of congress when you walk implies something get out there and get active tag your it will sort of. wealthy british style. it's not like.

markets finally. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to kaiser report on r g.