market why not. why not what's really happening to the global economy with mike's concert there are no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our. clothes a person of pm here in moscow watching our team with me kevin know it in our top stories that the man who led libya's and see gadhafi uprising exclusively tells our team that too many powers are interested in silencing the colonel also accuses nato of abandoning the country after ousting the old regime. is up to the syrian people kofi annan says it's from then to decide whether president assad stays in highlights that it's unreasonable to seven artificial deadline for the resolution.

also pressure mounts on north korea over its satellite plans as world leaders gather in seoul for a nuclear security summit ahead of the meeting u.s. president barack obama promised to punish canyon if it goes ahead with the launch. next crosstalk. please. liz. can you stick. to the words. alone and welcome the crosstalk i'm peter lavelle invisible children are very visible truths and propaganda the documentary film that went viral on you tube about uganda's child soldiers and a warlord joseph kony has engendered very strong reactions is the film about the

suffering of children or a well orchestrated plan preparing public opinion for still another western military adventure in a foreign country. illegally can. start. to cross that the county two thousand and twelve campaign i'm joined by io johnson in london he is to rector at viewpoint africa and in award winning journalist on african affairs in paris we go to julie alone oh she is head of the africa desk at internet without borders and in washington we go to jendayi frazier she is a distinguished service professor at carnegie mellon university hines college and department of social and decision sciences all right folks this is crossfire going to use you can jump in anytime you want and i often go to you first and wondered what was your reaction to this documentary because i watched it very carefully twice actually for its production value and for its editorial value production

value i'll give it a ten out of ten but for what its message was i was very good pally disturbed by it because i walked away from it not being an expert on africa but i felt it was of a exercise in very sophisticated propaganda that has very has many hidden agendas. yeah no doubt about that as was a slick video i think the makers got it from the mentally wrong when the video seemed to be stopped in a particular time which is about ten years ago. of course and was very very active in uganda and clearly he doctrine of children the the the war itself was physically happening very different from the uganda that we know today which is very much part peace consciousness open for business and some of the scars associated with those crimes i was committed by the coin back then are not apparent today so there was clearly a distinction between what the video was about which was stuck in time stuck in the

past as opposed to what the true reality is we're on the ground so this this distinction was not clearly identified and besides the video did not go to extreme lengths to actually show what uganda was like especially with those victims how many of them have actually grown up many of them are teenagers many of them are young adults the regional says hold especially in northern uganda has changed fundamentally people don't live in can't say anymore and of course the the law the warlord in self was of course i mean self he's his movements and his whereabouts are clearly are known so the media didn't get a holistic approach in terms of tackling the uganda issue and more so i think you failed to look at some of the sensitivities associated with the victims because you're using i want to be here granted that issue about agency and in a second there jenny if i go if you in washington why do you think this film came out now i mean it's very odd i mean you know it's already well known that this footage is what altered least

a decade what is the and why two thousand and twelve can activism end this great tragedy when we don't we just heard that most of the tragic events betrayed in the documentary or in the past are not happening now. well i think it's important to say that invisible children has been engaged on this issue for many years and so this is just a ramping up of their campaign to try to increase public awareness and more importantly to put pressure on public officials to take action so i think this is a continuum that's not. a event that does not link to their past actions and so i think it's just increasing their campaign now clearly they want more action from the obama administration and they got president obama on them and others you know put one hundred military advisors into east africa and central africa to

pursue fields of corn by supporting the regional militaries and i think that this is just their attempt i think it was probably somewhat ok unfortunate in the information that they gave which i agree with i always very out of date ok i'll let you know what they're going to hidden agenda and i'd like to i think there is a hidden agenda and we'll talk about those advisors that when you get to the end of last year but jeff if i can ask you stay with you just before we go to paris i mean were you disturbed by this good guy bad guy bad guy approach of the documentary because ugandan government ten years ago i was most would say we're not good guys in these conflicts ok and i was thinking that i was sorry and that was whitewashed in this documentary well i actually don't think it was about the ugandan government this is not invisible children is an activist group that has been very much focused on joseph koni and so i think it's fine for other groups who have issues with the ugandan government to try to latch on to the success of their video to take attacks

as president was seventy his government but they have a different agenda invisible children has been focused throughout its history all on joseph koni and not dealing with the domestic politics. so i think it's unfair to well it's hard to tell what i think is saying it's fair to say this is information is all ok but i don't think it's i think it's not fair just to give one side of the story because there's a lot of bad character is not one side of the story well it's very and this is only this one is that they must pick ok because they you get me governments it is well well documented the ugandan government committed atrocities as well ten years ago and i did go to paris here julie what do you think it's again all new ok well i mean you can still talk about what happened ten years ago don't why washing history ok julie if i can go to you what do you think of the film i watched what do you think of the film and you wrote a very interesting article about it i mean how what are your reactions to the debate for to come out. yes my reaction i wanted to stress on the point that coney

is a criminal everybody agrees with that and he must be arrested and charged for his crimes but there is a duty of truth for peace all these people who spread mentioned messages on uganda and africa in general because the continent ice change anything or not is the person who first round on criticism were africans who are saying i don't recognize myself in the picture you are depicting and and probably tried to stop what they considered as a lie and probably as a in a tent of propaganda by the coney video and if you three elements the invisible children very questionable transparency and finances the u.s. military a dent in the region which would have been announced in november and. the current state surrounding natural resources in the region you can understand why so many people suspected the video of actually misleading and producing another truth on purpose so i don't really agree with the fact that this was not a single story

a lot of people were out of africans or couldn't myself felt kind of offending and did not recognize themselves in the image depicted side by the short movie and in my opinion we if we have to talk about the u.s. policy in africa in general it has to be to take another step it has to go towards business like i was saying uganda is a country which is looking for business opportunities and that's what we want to foster what that's what you africans like me want to foster of their country and you're going about you in one in every one of the big criticisms that will come out is the agency issues that you need white people the west to come and sort things out in africa how do you respond to that because it's very patronizing this film. it is only comes back to that question of whether it's not about time that african stories are told by africans themselves and it is not their responsibility to make sure they have the media and the exposure opportunities to actually expose the stories in the fashion they would wish so to to to criticize the agency or this

this particular child to enjoy or foundation for what they have done nothing is likely harsh but nonetheless a story nonetheless that they've told in their way a story to expose the people that they thought were doing wrong a story that's actually going to raise huge amounts of exposure for them as a business i'm going to raise millions and millions of dollars into their pockets so i think it's the wrong type of message to be raising money at the expense of those who have actually suffered the most which are the ugandan people who understand me not hate people who have a penny from distant from it's very you know so in fact in general you know not having seen the film exactly jendayi i mean this is very interesting is that we're jewish julie mentioned business but i mean there is these are the filmmakers and their backers are making business for example out of bracelets that solve problems in africa selling bracelets. well no i think their message was really misguided

the idea that you're going to make connie's famous and to put his image on t. shirt with twenty twelve as if he's campaigning for an elected office i think it was truly misguided message and so no i don't think that that's going to solve the problem of the l r a i think it was intended and fact to be an emotional pill to raise awareness to raise funding and to put pressure on american officials and i think that there were many flaws in the in the design of that campaign which i think julian i'll speak very eloquently about that it is the perspective of a westerner essentially invisible children took a global media it had a local message that was focused on an american and western audience it didn't take into consideration how it would impact uganda and the ugandan people or more specifically the victims of the l r a and so i think that it was very poorly

designed from a message point of view but i don't think that we have to impute bad intentions on the part of invisible children i think that they just got their message in completely wrong and they should have had more guidance probably from lance or people ok julian parish very little i'm going to grant. yes yes yes but the invisible children has a responsibility when you take their restaurants believe hundreds of. encouraging people to take action behind their screen and encourage them to take action for a complete kate it issue which is get a criminal in a company kate region you have. a duty of telling the truth you have to be ethical about these because i don't really have an issue that we haven't dealt yet where is the the legal issue what does mean what does get cut. i mean i don't understand what get him means does it mean to kill him that's what i asked in my article does

it mean to kill him or generes and judge him we have to be clear on that and you cannot just tell get kone especially like i was saying to africans who have changed who who are who are really really keen on being careful of what type of message is right about their country and their continent and i am going to get you all right i'm going to jump in here waiting it's also very ok we're going to go to a short break here and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the controversial documentary film state party.

something good for you what is happening on the streets now as you know the after party for a while parts of the south i was right totally disagree i don't think the party began. we're still waiting for the actual resolution. wealthy british scientists. sometimes. don't. like the. markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max cause or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our team. to take you to.

welcome back across town you know what i remind you we're talking about the myths and realities of you can't just children. can't sleep. i want to go back to you in london i'm not a conspiracy theorist i don't like conspiracies but you know at the end of last year we suddenly we hear american advisers being sent into uganda to go chase down this warlord and then this film comes out and and the film the message is there it's you know if the west intervenes you know we have to make of this great effort to get rid of this man and there is there's an implied it must be the west it must be the americans it must mean to europeans and american allies and it's and i'm very sensitive this because you know all of these interventions lately and i can't see one that has worked out very well and i can't see how

a country and uganda and its neighbors could. fare very well with a military intervention there because actually it would make things worse not better. well a lot of people have made a lot of accusations against the charity in question the n.g.o.s question simply because of the way they've been able to raise money internally in the united states but even the ugandan army was on able to to to capture the coin if they were able to resolve the bitter war which they had ten years ago and clearly other neighboring countries are clearly affected and if the united states wants to offer some level of support through do you really only and let me ask you a question you really think that they don't know where he is you believe well of course it's impossible i think the technology is available now they can pinpoint everyone anywhere in the world and i think they probably have

a clue again it's in dense jungle but again the conspiracy about whether the united states wants to use this opportunity to expand africa on across the african continent colonizing africa again these are some of the sentiments i've been established share that i personally think that they probably have are well intended because they don't physically have that much of a presence on in uganda and in this particular instance i think it's just a few hundred american soldiers who are offering missis tents technological support and military capabilities to the ugandan army and then they're going to be able to tell the problems that's facing them ok jenny if i can go to you the american involvement in southeast asia started in the late forty's with some good intentions and a few hundred advisors i'd like to point that out here i mean what kind of footprint is the united states creating here in in uganda. you throw probably a less of a footprint in the united states has in many other regions of the world in most

regions including in europe and so on hundred soldiers as advisors spread across four countries is not a military footprint at all in fact it's doing too little from my perspective and it's primarily a matter of our intelligence is we do have intelligence we have been tracking we've been developing that capability for many many years we have a charlie speakers who help coney's operational security is extremely good he rarely uses the radio and it is not at all easy to track him and we're not that prepared to share that information with a lot of other countries a lot of groups because yours concerned about losing that capacity on and so they are there to give technical assistance to receive any intelligence that we get we get a lot of that from former of the these who have escaped and therefore give more information about how clearly operates in the bush and his forces and how many they are and so

it is not at all easy and there's not really a big military footprint again i say it's doing some little it's not doing too much ok julie what do you think about that you know once you open the gate to sometimes it's hard to get a guest to leave but do you think about it. well i don't share the idea of creating to rich the u.s. might use in coney case to to broaden its its african mission in on the continent but i think really feel that this coney action is counterproductive example of what should be done but the u.s. policy should be like in africa nowadays in my opinion the urgency for the u.s. is to foster business relationship when partnership economy partnership with this growing economy clee growing countries africa is a market of one billion concert potential consumers which could be an opportunity for american companies but also for africans and sell because they believe that by doing business we can also tackle

a lot of issues so when you see that nowadays only two percent of american foreign trade or outflows are going to africa it's only two percent or three hundred billion which is nothing i mean and most of them go to oil and extractive mineral sector with for me it's it's not really relevant compared to the reality of the continent and its interest has a lot of entry and there is a lot of really interesting and that's what i would like to see why it seems to me once again we go back to perceptions i really like it's really hard to say here because again this documentary film makes africa look like a completely hopeless broken down place that just needs to be rescued and julie saying really just the opposite is that you know look at what we can really do and give us a fair chance of doing it to sacramento as counterproductive in our perspective. yes yes on one hundred shows a helpless africa and africa does not that's not capable of addressing his own problems on its own yes but on the other hand it also shows an africa whose clearly understands how your politics works on the stands exactly the inference that the

chinese have on the african continent and the fear that the united states and european allies alike wants to counterbalance that's chinese influence so if the americans are getting involved in this campaign it could be on two fold firstly it could be to can the influence that was once lost one and also true don't forget that uganda like so many other countries that cross the african states are now awash with oil so that in itself could be an incentive and gender when you think about that every centrist thing is that you know this new kind of new neo colonial wave you know the united states western europe china is it turning into a playground for outsiders again in this film again and really it's a so i'm a amazingly sentimental about what the west should do ok and you know in the west doesn't have a good record in africa let's all remember that. well i think the problem the west has a mixed record in africa as africa has a mixed record as history has a mixed record i think that it's too simplistic to suggest that either we're going

to be militarized there either we should do business or we should just do humanitarian issues or maybe we should just promote democracy in fact u.s. policy does all of those things it's a serious policy and it's a robust and holistic policy and we should be doing more i think it is not the uganda situation i just have to say and the support for the regional countries to try to pursue and arrest kone or kill corny as it may be is not about oil that effort has been going on since two thousand and two when the u.s. started sharing intelligence that helped lead to coney been dislodged in fact from northern uganda which is not picked up unfortunately in this film because it is simplistic but i don't think our analysis of u.s. policy should be equally simplistic it is far more complex we're trying to do many things at once and we are trying to develop

a holistic approach for instance dealing with northern uganda and the kone issue we supported the ugandan military with intelligence and capacity night vision goggles cetera we also supported the people of northern uganda especially the charley in terms of the peace process in terms of rehabilitating and reconciling the communities and trying to support former we supported the pre peace talks ultimately joining me now is really if you will from the talks would you prefer would have preferred a documentary and everything you just said should suit you thousand and two you think that would make people more aware which i won on in africa are just going to be sorry i came in or it would be six no i would have it wouldn't be simplistic and not for often i have to say and i'm not trying to paint a broad brush. but allston activists and advocates who are trying to push a single issue will do so on the basis of emotional appeal and on the basis of

a simplistic message excellent reach the majority of people and i think that that is part of their trade it's unfortunate i'm so i'm not saying that the film should have been accurate in terms of the portrayal of uganda today if you want to talk about it historically it should have been clear that it was historical pretrial but instead it presented all the facts as if their courage and that and that and the messaging make kone famous were the two fundamental flaws i think of only twenty two of video but i but i also think from the point of view of looking at us policy that we should not be equally simplistic all they're just trying to chase. after all they're just a militarized reality you. are in for a valid reason to. go go ahead go ahead julie jump in paris. we're just we're not being simplistic we're saying that airports are not made where they should be i mean in my opinion like

a sad it is high time for us is africa other than a simple stock of natural resources it's also. a potential economic potential that should be embraced also so that's what i'm saying we're not being simplistic saying that it's it's a reality idea is really bigger and it is said to chris and for in trade it's going to africa and it's not sufficient i agree and i agree julie. julie i agree with your point but i don't think united states is simply seeing africa as a source of natural resources the united states under the clinton administration passed the after growth and opportunity act which was an act which was to encourage greatly with africa and to create a duty free entrance of african products into the american market but we got to get those products from africa united states is trying to put in place policies for transparency anti-corruption and i think u.s. government doesn't do enough to support american companies and africa but we're

coming right. away but i want you to then we're almost out of time here what is the legacy of this film in your opinion i mean is there we know you people know more or less or the wrong things about africa. well i think people know slightly more about africa to expose this africa for its frailties and its issues which are still tsunami of the continent sadly but i think it puts africa back in the spotlight i mean the numbers of people that have watched the video only celebrates that fact but again it's also shows that africa has to look at itself in the right come to expose its own stories in the fashion i think the wishes of course you can see quite clearly that you've done the things that there's been a little damage to sure potations moving forward which is why they're going to create a campaign now to show exactly what the current situation is uganda is like now to sort of counter this massive exposure which sadly show you a lot of primary home somebody will make

a documentary about the reactions to this documentary many thanks to my guests today in london paris and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the scene next time and remember rostov because. you can't. stand. to listen to. the biggest still. the this is free. education free instruction free the majors three. three. priests the old free volunteers to deal for your media drug c.e.o. don carty john tom.

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