in the. poem thanks for joining us the top boss they are karen taraji here's a quick recap of your headlines at syria's opposition now being called on to stop the violence that's president assad signs all to the u.n. backed peace deal the u.s. is pushing for the rebels to unite it's feared the factions are too divided and willing to lay down arms. bringing peace to syria without foreign military intervention is also on the agenda as the leaders of russia china and india are among five of the world's fastest growing economies who are also hammering out an

alternative to the dominance of the i am out of the world bank. one cold war bombast is sweeping america's republican senators who are demanding no concessions for russia which wants guarantees u.s. missiles and won't be aimed its way it's after obama was overheard assuring to meet the needs of more flexibility on arms control issues. coming up next crosstalk with peter lavelle looking out what's ahead for the occupy wall street protest movement just six months before it was boring. please. liz. liz. you can. start. listening

to the words. hello and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle with the arrival of spring occupy wall street protesters are coming out of their winter hibernation with plans for we knew demonstrations six months after the movement was born what has been accomplished if anything and what lies ahead for this undefined in the loose knit community of programs. the slim pickings are slim. to cross-talk a six month anniversary of the occupy wall street demonstrations i'm joined by bernard zennie in washington she's a spokesperson for now d.c. in new york we have danny schechter he is a journalist author and independent filmmaker l. also in new york we have charles koch he's a writer for the national review all right folks this is crossfire that means you can jump in any time you want bernie again if i can ask you go to you first what has been accomplished in the last six months with the occupy wall street movement.

i think what kind of problem is that people have self appropriated their activism they they've really come out and decided to actualize their thoughts and feelings about what's going on in america about the injustice about the disparity of income and power i think pretty much people have have come to really find their voice and find their ability to. ok charles i mean obviously there's been a lot of demonstrations in the last six months and there's been a lot of terry about it positive and negative as it meant anything as it careens translated into anything beyond just a lot of noise i think. if it had it would of course bother me because i don't agree with their aims but that's a separate question from whether it has or not. but from what i saw i saw an awful lot of time down in zuccotti park and covering this in going across new york and

what i saw was people who were previously disparate in thinking. what they think coming into one place rather than people who hadn't been involved in politics before suddenly rising up against the status quo i think it was w t o protestors and your environmentalists and your radicals all came and sat in one place i don't think people came out of their houses and said now i must do something about this as they did in say the civil rights movement ok danny what do you think about that . who first of all i'm like czech thank you for having me on it look you know of course there's been a big change in the conversation at least in the media and in many of the sectors of our society just i think yes they are reported that wall street firms are admitting at least in a recent survey that their p.r. that their image is now terrible thanks to the assaults on the criticisms by occupy

wall street six months ago the congress was discussing deficits and cutting all sorts of programs there was no other voice being heard occupy wall street raise the question of economic inequality and the growing gap in in that area and that issue has now rebounded just yesterday in new york chinese danny but i need because of the marriott oh i'll agree with you but what so what what's changed ok the bonuses are still being paid well for. you i turn if you will you what's the difference. your view of you know making social changes now like taking analogous tablet where you put it in a glass of water if this is up and you know thirty seconds later you feel better this is about building a movement for change trying to organize people across political lines charles would have to acknowledge that well excuse me charles i was is a cardiac of written a book called occupy and it's about in part bringing together or i'm going to let

me just make this one point it has brought together people who consider themselves anarchists socialists libertarians even democrats and a kind of sprinkle of republicans it's not you know it's not a movement that has a coherent idiology like the ones in the former soviet union or in the republican. party ok charles you want to go look if you have suppose you have young kids over first suppose you have yankees fans all over new york and then it's march it's game day and they come to the stadium and they sit together and then they go home you wouldn't say oh look at this massive american grassroots new yankees fan base you'd say look all of the people who believe that the yankees should win how are suddenly in the same place and now they're gone home because there's a big difference between this american radical groups assembling and

a movement being built that comprises people who are going to affect real change i think you're confusing the lighting that's ok bernadino when you jump in there go out categorically reject i really need to jump in here i category clerical if you reject that that way of seeing what's happening i actually wasn't a comedy park for six weeks i slept in my car and i went to occupy wall street it's true i have had. i don't know what you want to call and progressive. for many years but. but there are people that have come out of their houses there are people that said oh my gosh i felt hopeless and now i don't feel hopeless there were there were activists like me who felt hopeless and said oh my god thank god thank god finally finally they've come and come together and have decided to give voice it's true there were a lot of activists that all came together many different groups who came who also

came but by and large the activists that i saw the main organizers of occupy wall street they're all twenty five years old they're all twenty five years old when he thinks he's news they well i that's that's just the way i i care about ok what do you think is my problem did you ask let me ask you such a problem with your view ok go ahead danny. grant go ahead you want to continue the problem i have with with. my problem i have with charles first of all a people have not gone home this movement is growing and it will grow more but beyond that change those not happen necessarily only through the traditional political formats we've had in our country the experience of civil the civil rights movement the antiwar movement massive expressions of outrage with injustice that did lead to changes and i think wall street will as well i think it's too early you

know for you to be quite sure you know i want to ask you a question so charles can respond to it i mean the occupy wall street when you get involved in this election year i mean you can get behind candidates i mean i'm not trying to be contrarian on purpose here because you have some kind of critical mass but now it has to be translated into the change you're talking about and i don't see that i mean just camping out cannot creating change danny first i'm going to birdie and then charles can i do i have it go ahead. hold on you know i want to hear from you to it and i'll be happy to i happy to give you my time right now if you feel a need or urge me to respond and let me go ask do you cook a bernstein that was of general gentlemen there and d'amico had burned again. the the the idea that we're just camping out that is just so wrong it's just such a blatant. missile of everything that has come together i have

spoken to people that never thought that anything was possible to be done and then when he occupies care they're all over the country and all over the world we're like oh my god there is something that can be done the power of the people really is greater than the people in power as wild. game as my experience and seen i haven't seen i haven't seen a movement that in six weeks charles led to demonstrations and protests and over a thousand cities across the world even time magazine no friend of protest movements put the protesters as the person of the year because of the you know way in which you know this movement has resonated with so many people even if it hasn't articulated every demand in every premise of what the activists want this is a work in progress and it is progressing and to sit on the sidelines and snicker at

it as if it's having done this and haven't done that really does it at this service and sort of is a denial function of cynicism as well as being unduly snarky at an early stage ok charles i mean you want to respond to that i mean i'm i'm trying to be contrarian on purpose ok as i like protest i think it's very good but it is certain point there has to be a critical mass to achieve something and that's why i'm pushing the envelope here i mean you get involved in the elections there is a protest for a protest i'm getting just trying to be contrary you're probably against it charles go right ahead. firstly i like protests too but i don't think all protest is inherently good and i think it has to have a point secondly this idea that the right is being snarky towards this is you know you hear a lot of this from the president that it's somehow cynical to oppose big government plans or views that differ from your own in terms of oaky point wall street. time magazine it's slightly misleading to say they gave it to the occupy wall street

they gave it to the protester a nebulous an abstract form in large part because of the arab spring where people are actually fighting for something which is serious and important and has a name but the idea that this is comparable to the american civil rights movement i think i think the phrase massive protest was used this was not a massive protest and this civil rights movement was marked out because after having protested there was the civil rights act and then a series of pieces of legislation which changed the country how the civil rights like purely consisted of marches it wouldn't have actually done anything and the difference here is that no one has achieved in all charges really charles leaves me things that she. can honestly say these are the civil rights movement trying to move me finish here i was part of the civil rights movement let me let me have my say now here for a minute i was part of the civil rights movement you know if these movements were not you know considered you know to be in some way dangerous you wouldn't have over

six thousand arrests in new york city you would have the militarization of the police department the surveillance of the coordination of surveillance by all these cities this is a this is a movement that has freaked out other people in power it's freaked out mayor bloomberg who's a wall street guy and for good reason because of the man's it's making for more economic justice and fairness is an issue that has not been raised by our mass media has not been raised by the national review and has really been given the. kind of coverage it deserves charles going to respond also writes about this when i was going to write some national he writes about social mobility and inequality of income in almost every issue i suggest you pick up a copy it just doesn't come from the same source from our conclusions that occupy wall street house all right gentlemen and lady i'm going to jump in here we're going to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the

potential new wave of the occupy wall street protests today with r.t. . you can see just such. a move. just so.

limitations liquidations three limbs four charges three. major mental three. three. three live the old free broadcast live video for your media project st mediocre gondar t. dot com. live can. listen to. the live welcome back to crossfire can you imagine we're talking about the plans for a new demonstration. live to. live. ok burnaby and i'd like to go back to you in washington i think one of the

most interesting slogans or ideas that come out of the demonstrations of the last six months is the ninety nine percent versus one percent and it's actually a cool idea and i think it really makes people stand up and listen about what kind of economy the united states has in the western world in general but how much longer can you push that without getting results because one can be contrarian and a little cynical and say that's the only thing this movement can agree upon without any specific action because any specific action will divide the movement go ahead. i i can only disagree with almost anything that i said fine what the ninety nine percent of the one percent is actually was quoted by howard zinn people some. people history of the united states which he actually got from my writing that was from the progressive movement around one thousand nine hundred sixty or ninety nine percent of the one percent was identified then at the beginning of the progressive movement at the last century. the you know that's

a great mean but i think there are some people in the one percent that i know there are some people in the one percent that agree with us they agree with our goals they agree with the the injustice of income disparity. what we really want is we want people to pay attention and to rise up which has happened i have talked to people on the street let me give you one good example i was in i'm staying in fairfax virginia i spoke to i was at the ace hardware and i said oh i just he said what are you doing here from cincinnati and i said well i'm an occupier he goes oh my goodness now this is a guy that works in the ace hardware he gave me a card his card and said please let me put up some protesters because i told him that we were having the national archives of washington people would be coming in from all over the country this is a car that works with ace hardware i said i had people stop me all the time when i see buttons and they say thank you for doing what you're doing people have come out of their homes people have felt hopeless and now they feel feel maybe there's hope and i fear you know all the people of charles now because again being contrary

travels if it's ninety nine percent then just vote the bums out and change the laws simple well the ninety nine and one percent is actually extremely good slogan or it could have come from madison avenue it's. unfortunately it's not true as many slogans or slogans aren't firstly because most of the country if you look at this it doesn't even know what occupy wall street is and secondly because the reports are that they don't agree with them and ninety nine percent are clearly living in some sort of marxist false consciousness but energy and actually destroy her own argument extremely well but. she pointed out that this comes from howard zinn and originally nine hundred six in the original progressive movement these are the things that people have been saying on the left and in liberal or progressive circles for almost a hundred years this is not a new idea and every time they've tried to push it they've lost they will continue to lose there's nothing magic about the last ten years the last five years this is a general socialistic way of seeing the world that doesn't tally in america ok

danny what do you think about that socialistic way of looking at the world i mean you don't have to be a socialist to see any quality. charles you know the most people are criticizing not the socialism of the movement but it's anarchists i'm the anarchists. that are part of it you know it's interesting that fox network i'm sure your favorite t.v. channel is now doing a show called sons of anarchy you know to dramatize all of this there is there's been no socialist goals you know calls for justice you know if you think calls for justice are only being raised by socialists then i wonder why you want a socialist because we need more justice in our society i think you are going to even just even from your own point of view ok charlie's line justice i want you to join us here if i go ahead but you're also replying one fairly i'm charles dialogue putting other words in front of justice you can't just say social justice what is

not socialistic about wanting to redistribute wealth nationalize various industries what is not socialistic about that well what's wrong with it either you know charles nobody except you nobody except you is raise the question of nationalization i don't think that is you are doing has been i think there is a monkey in the national review you're still fighting the last true war charles the you know. it's not true well that you tell me then if massive unemployment which exists in this country homelessness which is growing school systems that are for. apart social service agencies that can't get funding and can't serve the public is not an indication of an economic crime and crisis in our society that people in a society which supposedly believes in equality supposedly believes in fairness and upward mobility we see the reverse going on right now and you don't see it maybe because you are from you know some dark corner of of england but i see it and i

think many people in america see it and express it just today the new york times for example on another issue is showing that sixty nine percent of the public opposes staying in afghanistan and fighting these wars there's a tremendous amount of disaffection and this satisfaction ok in this country for a leader we're going to reason i didn't you can't label the result of being in washington i want to go back to ok fine you can mobilize people and get people to protest but what about the electoral process i mean is this something you want to stay away from or do you want to win brace because if you are the ninety nine percent then do the math go ahead pretty. the i you know i i don't really think that voting at this point is makes a difference only because the we here we have actually a one party system it's called the business party and we have two factions the democrats and the republicans and you know everything everything can all and i said

i mean that i don't know what happened happen ok charles what i mean i want to i was brings up a good point i don't go there just like charles respond only i even here let's let our audience know let me just respond because i was a very interesting point go ahead ok let's suppose for the sake of argument this is not true for a member let's just suppose for the sake of argument to do that you're right it is a one party system with two wings called the business party why is it how can these two statements both be true there is one party for which almost everyone votes and the ninety nine percent are unhappy with it but again you want to reply i think i think people feel you are using. i i i this is what i have come to understand is this is who i felt like we really don't have a choice because on an individual basis we can't really change a system but as a group of people coming together as we the people we can make change and we can

make a difference the fact that you know we don't have really a choice we don't have a viable socialist we don't even have a viable libertarian party i mean how do you know if i am libertarian i'd be at. well you know it doesn't matter we're very heartened to hear over to be given the salient thirty different oh ok danny jump in go ahead you know it's very it's it's very difficult as charles knows very well for any third party movements to organize and get on the ballot and in fact what the republicans are trying to do in many parts of our countries to get people off the ballot by using these phony voter id fraud laws all right are causing the result is a real easy show no no this is something this is not even a debate about is his eyes into mine or in these in these all around you. it's not if it was so it was if it was so you know putting down minorities than the head of the n.a.c. people would not have had to go to geneva to the united nations human rights

council to protest against what's happening in the united states the fact is that parties get get rich you know get very bureaucratic and autocratic and it's difficult and the incumbents tend to rule money is dominating our political process everybody knows it everybody sees it with these super pacs with billionaires and millionaires basically dominating a campaign finance and so many parts of the country so this country more more more resembles the kind of all dark e that people in russia are protesting against. during the ninety's ninety's baby during the one nine hundred ninety s. when it was run by oligarchs can i say from player we're going to if we're going to throw out going to throw out thompson and meanings i can tell you that i spoke with an ex banker recently and he called what we have in america kleptocracy i thought that i thought i was out i was pretty well over the top and he said no he said

every single day they are stealing from you ok charles charles we're going to tell you i do see is not only were they change gears here charles you're dismissive of this movement the occupy wall street movement why is there protest in the old boy is any very obviously there is there is a lot of anger and you know it's i mean obviously it will be as anything better to do you know charles go ahead you know i think. i think it's there is a legitimate it's about what happened with the banks if you remember this is not just a left wing phenomenon the tea party was formed in response and interesting the immediately in response to the back by a bank where they didn't wait two years and use it as a hook the tea party quite rightly as it were many in occupy said that this is a country based on free market principles and that was a clear undermining of them now it is there are arguments on both sides i'm going to go for that as i understand rue first of all that's not true excuse me that's

not true you know the tea party has its origins in a rant by describing rick sanchez on c n b c and what he was complaining about is the possibility that there might be a bailout for people who are about to lose their homes that's what he was mobilizing people against the idea that somebody who has a mortgage somehow it's going to get a special deal and not have to pay the banks back he wasn't really indorsing or embracing a populist position the tea party's been funded by the koch brothers it's funded by billionaires it's run by republican politicians that there is let's let's be honest about this movement is not the movement is is run by the people in it in a democratic manner you know it may not be as efficient as you would like you know but it is a growing movement and it's a movement that's the bating its principles and is standing up for very good principles in terms of american justice and the whole history of movement. in a c.s.

the disequilibrium the sake of fairness charles i'm going to be the last word twenty seconds go ahead. you know full well that that is it's a nonsense about the tea party the tea party is against other it varies in the degree to which its. policies are anti the buyout but it is against big government and yes of course there are now groups funding as there have been with occupy wall street but the tea party and occupy wall street have the same father they just have fundamentally different plans one which is to restore the republic the other wishes to overthrow a very interesting point thank you very much joe for a very interesting debate many thanks to my guest today in washington and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here already seeing next time and remember across. the. street.

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