hello and of a good evening from moscow if you just joined us it's half past eleven pm moscow time my name's kevin zero in these are the top stories from r.t. it's syria's opposition that's now being called on to stop the violence as president assad signs up to the un backed peace plan but it's fear the factions are too divided. five the world's fastest growing economies are hammering out an alternative to the dominance of the i.m.f. or the world bank as they meet in india. and britain is in a petrol panic with fuel stations running dry as motorists get in a spin over

a potential tanker driver strike that's despite no interest or election being called yet. just ahead crosstalk of people looking at whether the occupy wall street protest movement achieved anything over the past six months. please. liz. liz. take a. listen to. a low in welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle with the arrival of spring occupy wall street protesters are coming out of their winter hibernation with plans to renewed demonstrations six months after the movement was born what has been

accomplished if anything and what lies ahead for this undefined in the loose knit community of protesters. slim can still slim. cross-talk the six month anniversary of the occupy wall street demonstrations i'm joined by bernard and many in washington she's a spokesperson for now d.c. in new york we have any sector he is a journalist author and independent filmmaker al also in new york we have charles cook he's a writer for the national review all right folks this is crossfire going to as you can jump in anytime you want bernie dean verde and if i can ask you go to you first what has been accomplished in the last six months with the occupy wall street movement. i think with many copulations that people have self appropriated their activism they they've really come out and decided to actualize their thoughts and feelings about what's going on in america about the

injustice about the disparity of income and power i think pretty much people have come to really find their voice and find their ability to. ok charles i mean obviously there's been a lot of demonstrations in the last six months and there's been a lot of commentary about it positive and negative as it meant anything is it true in strands lead it into anything beyond just a lot of noise i don't think. if it had it would of course bother me because i don't agree with their aims but that's a separate question from whether it has or not. from what i saw i saw an awful lot of time and zuccotti park covering this in across new york and what i saw was people who were previously disparate in thinking what they think coming into one place rather than people who hadn't been involved in politics before suddenly rising up against the status quo i think you'll w.t.

protesters and your environmentalists and your radicals all came and sat in one place i don't think people came out of their houses and said now i must do something about this as they did in say the civil rights movement ok danny what do you think about that. well first of all mike check thank you for having me on it look you know of course there's been a big change in the conversation at least in the media and in many other sectors of our society just i think yes they are reported that wall street firms are admitting at least in a recent survey that their p.r. that their image is now terrible thanks to the assaults and the criticisms by occupy wall street six months ago the congress was discussing deficits and cutting all sorts of programs there was no other voice being heard occupy wall street raise the question of economic inequality and the growing gap in in that area and that

issue has now rebounded just in new york times gani been made because of the area and oh i would agree with you but what so what what's changed ok the bonuses are still being paid well so. do i turn if you want me you what's the difference. your view of you know making social changes now like taking an alpha seltzer tablet where you put it in a glass of water if this is you know thirty seconds later you feel better this is about building a movement for change trying to organize people across political lines and charles would have to acknowledge that well excuse me charles i was is a cardiac i've written a book called occupy and it's about in part bringing together all of them just because one point it has brought together people who consider themselves anarchists socialists libertarians even democrats and a sprinkle of republicans it's not you know it's not a movement that has a coherent idiology like the ones in the former soviet union or in the republican.

party ok charles you want to know. if you have suppose you have you know just. trolls first suppose you have yankees fans all over new york and then it's much it's game day and they come to the stadium and they sit together and then they go home you wouldn't say oh look at this massive american grassroots new yankees fan base you'd say look all of the people who believe that the yankees should win how are suddenly in the same place and now they've gone home again there's a big difference between disparate american radical groups assembling and a movement being built that comprises people who are going to affect real change i think you're confusing the lighting that's ok bernadine you want to jump in there go categorically reject i really need to jump in here i can record clerical if you reject that that way of seeing what's happening i actually wasn't

a party part for six weeks i slept in my car and i went to occupy wall street it's true i have had. i don't know what you want to call him progressive. for many years but. there are people who did come out of their houses there are people that said oh my gosh i felt hopeless and now i don't feel hopeless there were there were activists like me who thought hopeless and said oh my god thank god thank god finally finally they've come and come together and have decided to give voice it's true there were a lot of activists that all came together many different groups who came who also came but by and large the activists that i saw the main organizers of occupy wall street they're all twenty five years old they're all twenty five years old when you think it is news they well i bet that's just the way i i care about ok but i want

to do is my problem let me ask let me ask is a problem with your view ok go ahead. go ahead and go ahead you one reason i'm saying the problem i have with with. my problem i have with charles first of all a people have not gone home this movement is growing and it will grow more but beyond that. change those not happened necessarily only through the traditional political formats we've had in our country the experience of civil the civil rights movement the antiwar movement massive expressions of outrage with injustice that did lead to changes and i think occupy wall street will as well i think it's too early you know for you to be quite you know i want to ask you a question so charles can respond to it i mean the occupy wall street nobody's going to get involved in this election year i mean you could get behind candidates i mean i'm not i'm trying to be contrarian on purpose here because you have some kind of critical mass but now it has to be translated into the change you're

talking about and i don't see that i mean just camping out cannot creating change danny first i'm going to burn again and then charles could i drive it go ahead. hold on i want to hear from you too and i'll be happy to i happy to give you my time right now if you feel the need to respond and let me go ask you a bernstein that was of general gentlemen there and danny go ahead bernie. the the idea that we're just camping out is just so wrong it's just such a blatant dismissal of everything that has come together i have spoken to people that never thought that anything was possible to be done and then when he occupies care that all over the country and all over the world were like oh my god there is something that can be done the power of the people really is

greater than the people in power as while go. damn and my experience i am insane i haven't seen i haven't seen a movement that in six weeks charles led to demonstrations and protests and over a thousand cities across the world even time magazine no friend of protest movements put the protesters as the person of the year because of the you know way in which you know this movement has resonated with so many people even if it hasn't articulated every demand in every premise of what the activists want this is a work in progress and it is progressing and to sit on the sidelines and snicker at it as if it's a have it done this and haven't done that really does that a dis service and sort of is a denial function of cynicism as well as being unduly snarky at an early stage ok charles i mean if you want to respond to that i mean i'm trying to be

contrarian on purpose ok as i like protests i think it's very good but it is certain point there has to be a critical mass to achieve something and that's why i'm pushing the envelope here i mean you get involved in the elections there's a protest for protests i'm going i'm just trying to be contrarian you're probably against it charles go right ahead. firstly i like process too but i don't think all protest is inherently good and i think it has to have a point secondly this idea that the right is being snarky towards this is you know you hear a lot of this from the president that it's somehow cynical to oppose pretty government plans or views that differ from your own in terms of occupy wall street. time magazine it's slightly misleading to say they gave it to the occupy wall street they gave it to the protester enablers in abstract form in large part because of the arab spring where people are actually fighting for something which is serious and important and has a name but the idea that this is comparable to the american civil rights movement i

think i think the phrase massive protest was used this was not a massive protest and this of all rights movement was marked out because after having protested there was the civil rights act and then a series of pieces of legislation which changed the country how the civil rights like purely consisted of marches it wouldn't actually done anything and the difference here is that no one has achieved in order to reach our lives anythings the. there is currently four years a civil rights movement can i let me finish here i was part of the civil rights movement let me let me have my say now here for a minute i was part of the civil rights movement you know if these movements were not you know considered you know to be in some way dangerous you wouldn't have over six thousand arrests in new york city you would have the militarization of the police department the surveillance of course is not only the coordination of surveillance by all these cities this is a this is a movement that has freaked out the people in power its freaked out mayor bloomberg

who's a wall street guy and for good reason because the demands it's making for more economic justice and fairness is an issue that has not been raised by our mass media has not been raised by the national review and has really been given. kind of coverage of the service charles you don't really want to know what we're going to write about this guy and you're already going to write some great national he writes about social mobility and inequality of income in almost every issue i suggest you pick up a copy it just doesn't come to the same saw from our conclusions that occupy wall street house all right gentlemen and lady i'm going to jump in here we go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the potential new wave of the occupy wall street protests today with r.t. . and.

wealthy british scientists. sometimes rise. markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy for no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to gaza report on our chief.

welcome back to crossfire can you imagine we're talking about the plans for renewed demonstrations. in egypt. ok bernard being allowed to go back to you in washington i think one of the most interesting slogans or ideas that come out of the demonstrations of the last six months is the ninety nine percent versus one percent and it's actually a cool idea and i think it really makes people stand up and listen about what kind of economy the united states has in the western world in general but how much longer can you push that without getting results because one can be contrarian and a little cynical and say that's the only thing this movement can agree upon without any specific action because any specific action will divide the movement go ahead.

i i i can only disagree with on the thing that i said going well that the ninety nine percent of the one percent is actually quoted by howard zinn people so people's history of the united states which he actually got from writing that was from the progressive movement around one thousand nine hundred sixty or ninety nine percent in the one percent was identified then i think beginning of the progressive movement at the last century. the you know that's a great mean but i think there are some people in the one percent that i know there are some people who are in the one percent that agree with us they agree with our goals they agree with the of the injustice of income disparity what we really want is we want people to pay attention and to rise up which is happened i have talked to people on the street let me give you one good example i was in i'm seeing in fairfax virginia i spoke to i was that the ace hardware and i said oh i just he said what are you doing here from cincinnati and i said well an occupier he goes oh

my goodness now this is a guy that works in the ace hardware he gave me a card his card and said please let me put up some protesters because i told him that we were having the national articulation of washington people would be coming in from all over the country this is a guy that works with ace hardware i saw i had people stop me all the time when i see buttons and they say thank you for doing what you're doing people have come out of their homes people have felt hopeless and now they feel hill maybe there's hope and i you know all the people in charleston are because again be contrarian travels if it's ninety nine percent but just vote the bums out and change the laws simple well the ninety nine and one percent is actually extremely good slogan it could have come from madison avenue. unfortunately it's not true as many slogans great slogans aren't firstly because most of the country if you look at it is it doesn't even know what occupy wall street is and secondly because the reports are that they don't agree with them and ninety nine percent are clearly living in some sort of marxist false consciousness but energy and actually destroyed her own argument

extremely well good. she pointed out that this comes from howard zinn and originally night in the sticks in the original progressive movement these are the things that people have been saying on the left and in liberal progressive circles for almost a hundred years this is not a new idea and every time they've tried to push it they've lost they will continue to lose there's nothing magic about the last ten years the last five years this is a general socialistic way of seeing the world that doesn't tally in america ok danny what do you think about that socialistic way of looking at the world i mean you don't have to be a socialist to see any quality. charles you know the most people are criticizing not the socialism of the movement but it's anarchy ism the anarchists. that are part of it you know it's interesting that fox network i'm sure your favorite t.v. channel is now doing a show called sons of anarchy you know to dramatize all of this there's been no socialist goals but you know calls for justice you know if you think all calls for

justice are only being raised by socialists then i wonder why you aren't a socialist because we need more justice in our society i think you agree where is with me just even from your own point of view ok charlie brown injustice i want you to certify but you're also replying one fairly i'm charles bryan large putting other words in front of justice you can't just say socialist what is not socialistic i want to redistribute wealth nationalize barry's industry and what is not socialistic about that well what's wrong with it either i know charles nobody except you nobody except you is raise the question of nationalization i don't think that is you nor your husband i think there is a monkey in the national review you're still fighting the last true war charles the you know. it's not true wealth you tell me then if massive unemployment which exists in this country homelessness which is growing school systems that are for.

apart social service agencies that can't get funding and can't serve the public is not an indication of an economic crime and crisis in our society that people in a society which supposedly believes in equality supposedly believes in fairness and upward mobility we see the reverse going on right now and you don't see it maybe because you're from you know some dark corner of of england but i see it and i think many people in america see it and express it just today the new york times for example on another issue is showing that sixty nine percent of the public opposes staying in afghanistan and fighting these wars there's a tremendous amount of disaffection and this satisfaction ok in this country for illegally one reason i do can't label. in washington i want to go back to ok fine you can mobilize people and get people to protest but what about the electoral process i mean is this something you want to stay away from or do you want to

embrace because if you are the ninety nine percent then do the math go ahead pretty . the i you know i i don't really think that voting at this point is makes a difference only because the we here we have actually a one party system it's called the business party and we have two factions the democrats and the republicans and you know everything everything comes and all and i said i may have that are going to go what happened happen ok try hard enough when you rise brings up a good point i don't go there just like charles responding i even here let's let our audience and i just respond because i was a very interesting point go ahead ok let's suppose for the sake of argument this is not true for a moment let's just suppose for the sake of argument going to do that you're right it's a one party system with two wings called the business party why is it how can these two statements both be true there is one party for which almost everyone votes and

the ninety nine percent are unhappy with. the one reply i think i think people feel like listening to stories i i i this what i have come to understand is this is a i felt like we really don't have a choice because on an individual basis we can't really change the system but there's a group as people coming together as we the people we can make change and we can make a difference the fact that you know we don't have really a choice we don't have a viable socialist we don't even have a viable libertarian party i mean nobody there are white and libertarian i'd be at . well you know it doesn't matter we're very hard to hear over to be given this is the world ok danny jump in go ahead you know it's very it's it's very difficult as charles knows very well for any third party movements to organize and get on the ballot and fact what the republicans are trying to do in many parts of our

countries to get people off the ballot by using these phony voter id fraud laws all right it. is a real easy show no no this is something this is not even a debate about this is i think as a mine are and there's a need to surround you. it's not if it was so what it was if it was so you know putting the minorities in the head of the n.a.c. people would not have had to go to geneva to the united nations human rights council to protest against what's happening in the united states the fact is that parties get get rich you know get very bureaucratic and autocratic and it's difficult and they become good stand to rule money is dominating our political process everybody knows it everybody sees it with these super pacs with billionaires and millionaires basically dominating campaign finance and so many parts of the country so this country more and more resembles the kind of oligarch e that people in russia protesting against. this during the ninety's ninety's

baby during the one nine hundred ninety s. when it was run by oligarchs when i say front they are going to if we're going to throw out poms if we're going to throw out problems and meanings i can tell you that i spoke with an ex backer recently and he called what we have in america kleptocracy i thought that i thought that was out i was pretty over the top and he said no he said every single day they are stealing from me ok charles charles if i know you i hear you i want to change gears here charles you're dismissive of this movement the occupy wall street movement why is there protest in the employees and you very obviously there is there is a lot of anger in the united states i mean obviously it is anyone better to do you know charles you know i think. i think that there is a legitimate. about what happened with the banks remember this is not just

a left wing phenomenon the tea party was formed in in response and interesting the immediately in response to the part by a bank that i didn't wait two years and use it as a hook if the party quite rightly asked it was a million occupiers have said that this is a country based on free market principles and that was a clear undermining of them now it is there are arguments on both sides i'm going to go for the understand who first of all that's not true excuse me that's not true you know the tea party has its origins in a rant by this guy rick santorum really on c n b c and what he was complaining about is the possibility that there might be a bailout for people who are about to lose their homes that's what he was mobilizing people against the idea that somebody who has a mortgage somehow is going to get a special deal and not have to pay the banks back he wasn't really indorsing or embracing a populist position the tea party's been funded by the koch brothers it's funded by billionaires it's run by republican politicians that larry let's let's be honest

the valley this movement is not the movement is is run by the people in it in a democratic manner you know it may not be as efficient as you would like you know but it is a growing movement and it's a movement that's the bating its principles and is standing up for very good principles in terms of american justice and the whole history of move in the n.s.a.'s the disequilibrium the sake of fairness charles i'm going to be the last word twenty seconds go ahead. you know full well that that is also known since about the tea party the tea party is against varies in the degree to which its policies are anti the buyout but it is against big government and yes of course there are now groups funding as that happened with occupy wall street but the tea party and occupy wall street have the same father they just have fundamentally different plans one which is to restore the republican the other wishes to overthrow a very interesting point thank you very much joe for

a very interesting debate many thanks to my guest today in washington and in new york and thanks or viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember crosstalk.