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used to. say. good luck getting the game started. in the in the second to the end. hello and welcome to cross talk i'm literally dealt with the arrival of spring occupy wall street protesters are coming out of their winter hibernation with plans for we knew demonstrations six months after the movement was born what has been accomplished if anything and what lies ahead for this undefined induced knit community of protest from. the us and campaign.

to cross-talk the six month anniversary of the occupy wall street demonstrations i'm joined by bernie dean zennie in washington she's a spokesperson for now d.c. in new york we have any sector he is a journalist author and independent filmmaker and also in new york we have charles cook he's a writer for the national review all right folks this is crossfire going to and you can jump in any time you want bernie dean bernie and if i can ask you go to you first what has been accomplished in the last six months with the occupy wall street movement i think. that people have appropriated their activism they've they've really come out and decided to actualize their thoughts and feelings about what's going on in america about the injustice about the disparity of income and power i think pretty much people have come to really find their voice and find their ability to effect change

ok charles i mean obviously there's been a lot of demonstrations in the last six months and there's been a lot of commentary about it positive and negative as it meant anything is it true in strands lated into anything beyond just a lot of noise. i think. if it had it would of course bother me because i don't agree with their aims but that's a separate question from whether it has or not. from what i saw i saw that awful lot of time down is because the park and covering this in in across new york and what i saw was people who were previously disparate in thinking. what they think coming into one place rather than people who hadn't been involved in politics before suddenly rising up against the status quo i think you're w t o protestors and your environmentalists and your radicals all came and sat in one place i don't think people came out of their houses and said now i must do something about this

as they did in say the civil rights movement ok danny what do you think about that . who first of all mike check thank you for having me on it look you know of course there's been a big change in the conversation at least in the media and in many other sectors of our society just i think yesterday r.t. reported that wall street firms are admitting at least in a recent survey that their p.r. that their image is now terrible thanks to the assaults and the criticisms play occupy wall street six months ago the congress was discussing deficits and cutting all sorts of programs there was no other voice being heard occupy wall street raise the question of economic inequality and the growing gap. in that area and that issue has now rebounded just yesterday in new york chinese danny but only because of the area no mystery with what so what what's changed ok the bonuses are still being paid well so you are going to know you will make you

a lifetime of money you what's the difference. your view of you know making social changes now like taking an alkie seltzer tablet where you put it in a glass of water it fizzes up and you know thirty seconds later you feel better this is about building a movement for change trying to organize people across political lines charles would have to acknowledge that well excuse me charles i was is a cardiac i've written a book called occupy and it's about in part bringing together all of them just because one point it has brought together people who consider themselves and his socialists libertarians and even democrats and and a sprinkle of republicans it's not you know it's not movement that has a coherent idiology like the ones in the former soviet union or in the republican. party ok charles you want to. look if you have suppose you have a young child. first suppose you have yankees fans all over new york and then it's

much it's game day and they come to the stadium and they sit together and then they go home you wouldn't say oh look at this massive american grassroots new yankees fan base you'd say look all of the people who believe that the yankees should win how are suddenly in the same place and now they're going home again there's a big difference between this american radical groups assembling and a movement being built comprises people who are going to affect real change i think you're confusing the lighting that's ok bernadino when you jump in they're going to categorically reject i i really need to jump in here i category categorically reject that that way of thinking what's happening i actually wasn't a comedy park for six weeks i slept in my car and i went to occupy wall street it's true i have had. i don't know what you want to call progressive. for many years

but. and there are people that have come out of their houses there are people that said oh my gosh i felt hopeless and now i don't feel hopeless there were there were activists like me who felt hopeless and said oh my god thank god thank god finally finally they've come and come together and have decided to give voice it's true there were a lot of activists that all came together many different groups who came who also came but by and large the activists that i saw the main organizers of occupy wall street they're all twenty five years old they're all twenty five years old to anything here in the news they well i that's that's just the way i i care about ok and i want to ask is really my problem let me ask you let me have a problem with your view ok go ahead danielle go grant go ahead you don't really understand the problem i have with with. my problem i have with charles first of

all a people have not gone home this movement is growing and it will grow more but beyond that. change this not happen necessarily only through the traditional political formats we've had in our country the experience of civil the civil rights movement the antiwar movement massive expressions of outrage with injustice that they did lead to changes and i think occupy wall street will as well i think it's too early you know for you to be quite so you know i want to ask you a question so charles can respond to it i mean the occupy wall street when you get involved in this election year i mean you can get behind candidates i mean i'm not i'm trying to be contrarian on purpose here because you have some kind of critical mass but now it has to be translated into the change you're talking about and i don't see that i mean just camping out to not creating change danny first i'm going to birdie and then charles can i do i have it go ahead. hold

on i want to hear from you to it and i'll be happy to i happy to give you my time right now if you feel a need or urgently respond and let me go ask you cook a burning team that was a real gentleman there and danny go ahead burn again. the idea that we're just camping out there is just so wrong it's just such a blatant. up of everything that has come together i have spoken to people that never thought that anything was possible to be done and then when he occupies care and all over the country and all over the world we're like oh my god there is something that can be done the power of the people really is greater than the people in power as while gunning. down as my experience and seen i haven't seen i haven't seen a movement that in six weeks charles led to demonstrate and protest and over

a thousand cities across the world even time magazine no friend of protest movements put the protesters as the person of the year because of the you know way in which you know this movement has resonated with so many people even if it hasn't articulated every demand in every premise of what the activists want this is a work in progress and it is progressing and to sit on the sidelines and snicker at it as if it's having done this and haven't done that really does that at this service and sort of is a denial function of cynicism as well as being unduly snarky at an early stage ok charles i mean if you want to respond to that i mean i'm i'm trying to be contrarian on purpose ok as i like protest i think it's very good but it is certain point there has to be a critical mass to achieve something and that's why i'm pushing the envelope here i mean you get involved in the elections there's a protest or

a protest i'm getting just trying to be contrarian you're probably against it charles go right ahead. firstly i like process too but i don't think all protest is inherently good and i think you have to have a point secondly this idea that the right is being snarky towards this is you know you had a lot of this from the president that it's somehow cynical to oppose big government plans or views that differ from your own in terms of occupy wall street. time magazine it's slightly misleading to say they gave it to the occupy wall street they gave it to the protester a nebulous an abstract form in large part because of the arab spring where people are actually fighting for something which is serious and important and has a name but the idea that this is comparable to the american civil rights movement i think i think the phrase massive protest was used this was not a massive protest and this civil rights movement was marked out because after having protested there was the civil rights act and then a series of pieces of legislation which changed the country how the civil rights

act purely consisted of marches it wouldn't actually done anything and the difference here is that no one has achieved in. levy's meetings the. airlines can honestly starting to civil rights movement let me finish here i was part of the civil rights movement now let me let me have my say now here for a minute i was part of the civil rights movement you know if these movements were not you know considered you know to be in some way dangerous you wouldn't have over six thousand arrests in new york city you would have the militarization of the police department the surveillance appearances because really the coordination of surveillance by all these cities this is a this is a movement that has freaked out other people in power it's freaked out mayor bloomberg who's a wall street guy and for good reason because the demands it's making for more economic justice and fairness is an issue that has not been raised by our mass

media has not been raised by the national review and has really been given the. kind of coverage it this serves charles taylor on another story writes about this guy and i was really going to write some great national he writes about social mobility and inequality of income in almost every issue i suggest you pick up a copy it just doesn't come to the same saw from our conclusions that occupy wall street house all right gentlemen and lady i'm going to jump in here we go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the potential new wave of the occupy wall street protests today with our team. still.

wealthy british scientists. market trying to. find out what's really happening to the global economy

with mike's concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into a report on our cheap. download the official see how to make a show. called touch from the choose our. life on the go. video on demand tease my old costs and says feeds now in the palm of your. pushing. the can. still. come across talk on you a little too much we're talking about the plans for a new demonstration. to go to

a slim. ok burn again and i go back to you in washington i think one of the most interesting slogans or ideas that come out of the demonstrations of the last six months is the ninety nine percent versus one percent and it's actually a cool idea and i think it really makes people stand up and listen about what kind of economy the united states has in the. world in general but how much longer can you push that without getting results because one can be contrarian and a little cynical and say that's the only thing this movement can agree upon without any specific action because any specific action will divide the movement go ahead. i i i can only disagree with on the standing right there that i'm well that the ninety nine percent of the one percent is actually quoted by howard zinn in the people's people's history of the united states which he actually got from our writing that was from the progressive movement around one thousand nine hundred six the ninety nine percent of the one percent was identified then that the beginning

of the progressive movement at the last century. the you know that's a great mean but i think there are some people in the one percent that i know there are some people in the one percent that agree with us they agree with our goals they agree with that the the injustice of income disparity. what we really want is we want people to pay attention and to rise up which is happened i have talked to people on the street let me give you one good example i was in i'm staying in fairfax virginia i spoke to i was like the ace hardware and i said oh i just he said what are you doing here from cincinnati and i said well an occupier he goes oh my goodness now this is a guy that works in the ace hardware he gave me a card his card and said please let me put up some protesters because i told him that we were having the national our compassion of washington people would be coming in from all over the country this is a car that works with ace hardware i stop i have people stop me all the time when i see buttons and they say thank you for doing what you're doing people have come out of their homes people have felt hopeless and now they think ok well maybe there's

hope and i think you know all the people in charles now because again being contrarian drives if it's ninety nine percent then just vote the bums out and change the laws simple well the ninety nine and one percent is actually extremely good slogan or it could have come from madison avenue it's unfortunately it's not true as many slogans great slogans are firstly because most of the country if you look at this it doesn't even know what occupy wall street is and secondly because reports are that they don't agree with them and i'd say ninety percent are clearly living in some sort of marxist false consciousness bernadino actually destroyed her own argument extremely world a big. has she pointed out that this comes from howard zinn originally night in new six in the original progressive movement these are the things that people have been saying on the left and in liberal or progressive circles for almost a hundred years this is not a new idea and every time they've tried to push it they've lost they will continue to lose there's nothing magic about the last ten years the last five years this is

a general socialistic way of seeing the world that doesn't tally in america ok danny what do you think about that socialistic way of looking at the world i mean you don't have to be a socialist to see any quality. charles you know the most people are criticizing not the socialism of the movement but it's anarchy as i'm the anarchist. that are part of it you know it's interesting that fox network i'm sure your favorite t.v. channel is now doing a show called sons of anarchy you know to dramatize all of this there is no socialist goals you know a call for justice you know if you think calls for justice are only being raised by socialists then i wonder why you are in a socialist because we need more justice in our society i think you're going to wear it with just to even from your own point of view ok charlie is not injustice i want children to survive which are also reply one fairly on charles by and large

putting out the words in front of justice you can just say social justice what is not socialistic i want to redistribute wealth nationalize various industries what is not socialistic about that well what's wrong with it i don't want to know charles nobody except you nobody except you is raise the question of nationalization i don't think that is your view on this been like anywhere else among the in the national review you're still fighting the last true war charles a you know. it's not true wealth you tell me then if massive unemployment which exists in this country homelessness which is growing school systems that are for. apart social service agencies the can't get funding and can't serve the public is not an indication of an economic crime and crisis in our society that people in a society which supposedly believes in equality supposedly believes in fairness and upward mobility we see the reverse going on right now and you don't see it maybe

because you are from you know some dark corner of of england but i see it and i think many people in america see it and express it just today the new york times for example on another issue is showing that sixty nine percent of the public opposes staying in afghanistan and fighting these wars there's a tremendous amount of disaffection and dissatisfaction in this country for they only one reason i didn't you can't label it because i was in washington i want to go back to ok fine you can mobilize people and get people to protest but what about the rhetorical process i mean is this something you want to stay away from or do you want to win brace because if you are the ninety nine percent then do the math go ahead thirty. the i you know i i don't really think that voting at this point is makes a difference only because the we here we have actually a one party system it's called the business party and we have two factions the

democrats and the republicans and you know everything everything comes and all the nice united made up that are they what happened happened ok charles what i mean i wonder i was brings up a good point i don't go i just respond i even here let's then i don't know i just respond because i was a very interesting point go ahead ok let's suppose for the sake of argument this is not true for me but let's just suppose for the sake of argument that in that you're right and it's a one party system with two wings called the business party why is it how can these two statements both be true there is one party for which almost everyone votes and the ninety nine percent are unhappy with it bernie don't you want to reply i think i think people feel like. i i i this well i have come to understand in this way i felt like we really don't have a choice because on an individual basis we can't really change a system but as

a group as people coming together as we the people we can make change and we can make a difference that's right when you know we don't hey i was really a choice we don't have a viable socialist we don't even have a viable libertarian party i mean how do you know if i am libertarian i think. well you know it doesn't matter we invariably build your oval to make even the salient serve different oh ok danny jump in go ahead you know it's very it's very difficult as charles knows very well for any third party movements to organize and get on the ballot and in fact what republicans are trying to do in many parts of our countries to get people off the ballot by using these phony voter id fraud laws all right. it is a real easy show no no this is something this is not even a debate about how does his eyes in their mind or in these in the this whole rank you. it's not if it was so it was it was so you know putting

down minorities than the head of the n.a.c. people would not have had to go to geneva to the united nations human rights council to protest against what's happening in the united states the fact is that parties get get rich you know get very bureaucratic and autocratic and it's difficult and the incumbents tend to rule money is dominating our political process everybody knows it everybody sees it with the super pacs with billionaires and millionaires basically dominating a campaign finance and so many parts of the country so this country more more more resembles the kind of old guard key that people in russia are protesting against where. these during the ninety's and i mean maybe during the one nine hundred ninety s. when it was run by oligarchs grant can i say something you're going to throw out the arms if you're going to throw out problems and means i can tell you that i spoke with an axe packer recently and he called what we have in america kleptocracy

i thought that i thought that was albert i was pretty over the top and he said no he said every single day they are stealing from you ok charles charles what can you tell you i do there is nothing i want to change gears here charles you're dismissive of this movement the occupy wall street movement why is there protest that in the boys and very obvious that there is there is a lot of anger in the united states i mean obviously it already has anyone better to do you know charles you know i think. i think there is a legitimate. about what happened with the banks do you remember this is not just a left wing phenomenon the tea party was formed in in response and interestingly immediately in response to the back by a bank where they didn't wait two years and use it as a hook the tea party quite rightly asked many in occupy have said that this is a country based on free market principles and that was a clear undermining all of them now if there are arguments on both sides i'm going

to go for it because i understand through first of all that's not true excuse me that's not true you know the tea party has its origins in a rant by the sky rick centrality on c n b c and what he was complaining about is the possibility that there might be a bailout for people who are about to lose their homes that's what he was mobilizing people against the idea that somebody who has a mortgage somehow is going to get a special deal and not have to pay the banks back he wasn't really indorsing or embracing a populous position the tea party's been funded by the koch brothers it's funded by billionaires it's run by republican politicians that there is let's let's be honest the valley this movement is not the movement is is run by the people in it in a democratic manner you know it may not be as efficient as you would like you know but it is a growing movement and it's a movement that's the bating its principles and is standing up for very good principles in terms of american justice and the whole history of a move or

a journey to end it in a sense for the. sake of fairness charles i will give you the last word twenty seconds go ahead. you know full well but that is also nonsense about the tea party the tea party is against other berries in the degree to which its policies are anti the buyout but it is against big government and yes of course there are now groups funding as there have been with occupy wall street but the tea party and occupy wall street have the same father they just have fundamentally different plans one which is to restore the republican the other wishes to overthrow of on a very interesting point thank you very much joe for a very interesting debate many thanks to my guest today in washington and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember crosstalk. if you. want to.

get on sometimes you see a story and it seems so for like sleep you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry welcome to the big. news today violence is once again flared up. and these are the images the world has seen from the streets of canada. trying to look for asians to rule the day.

it'll it'll lift. limitless. but. the arab. nation is free if education free and sunshine.