to a. friday you ready to rumble joining me for tonight's big picture wrangler mike brown field editor of the foundry and the morning belum assistant director of strategic communications at the heritage foundation stuart take up chief of staff the until the workers union of america and former director of organizing legendary director of organizing for the and author of the book plain bigger than you are a life of organizing and then geno republican candidate for the u.s. senate in the great state of maryland it's a commonwealth there's no no it's a state it will take it as a state it's our state yeah it's actually the state i mix them up i'm sorry ok let's start out here. with mitt romney want to start with health care not romney's wife ann has a history of breast cancer and has multiple sclerosis she would be uninsurable right now in the united states if she was not a quarter billionaire how what what plan do the republicans have for people like

ann romney who are not worth a quarter of a billion dollars. well look i'm glad that m.s. is the subject of conversation because there's there's an interesting look if you look at the u.k. if you look at scotland which has a government run health care program the government there said that this new groundbreaking drug to help people with multiple sclerosis would not be approved because the government made a decision that it wasn't cost effective so we could have a health care system like obamacare we're bureaucrats are making decisions for us here what republicans are offering not what scotland's offer it's. we are just going out there it's called the which is proposed by paul ryan it is a government run program but it's run well because the government doesn't run it but people do when i was a member of the secret service they gave you a booklet and they said you pick your own insurance plan that's not what happens now in a lot of these government run plans and you know i think the gist of it is that the

market has failed the medicine and i would say well let's try it some time there is no free market medicine forty percent of medicine is paid for by the government where's i don't see where the free market is if you want to go all the free market the free market i think i think it's a canard sixty percent of his apparently the market that really hasn't worked with with health care i mean there's no question about that you know until you know we've got about forty million people without health care. and if the republican succeed in changing medicare and medicaid people like my father will be kicked out of the his assisted living home because he has all the time or so there is an effective i do agree that there are affected government run health care plans the v.a. the federal employees their congressional plan over and over medicaid medicare they all work and vote but we've left forty fifty million people out of the health

care of your kids area and am paying for their emergency care in the emergency in the emergency room. the hospital it's cost the rest i don't find that there is a market based system right now and we do not have an entirely free market system will eventually the insurance companies would argue with you about there's no such things are so bad that what you say you're going to have a basketball game or a football game with a referee think about it on their forty million numbers been skewed it's really closer to ten million now if the average insurance policy is closer to five thousand a year for something like this one person doesn't that say something really bad about this country of course but i'm not saying we should with his dog a safety net but we're setting a safety net at such a ridiculous i level ridiculously high level it's not a safe it's now turning into a amec and that takes money away from people who really need it you know money's a zero sum game there's only so much to throw around so we're good if we're giving it to families making eighty thousand dollars a year what about people who are really struggling who need it that's not a safety net and that's what we're doing it's not a zero sum game if there's

a lot of money in the united states is not going to help here but money and i mean we're we're spending twice as much for health care in this country we're getting half the results absolutely you're absolutely right you look at every other industrialized country in the world they get better health care for less cost and then what we do but the affordable care act is not the solution to this problem there are going to have back to times question what are you sure of so the republicans do have ideas that conservatives have ideas a mortgage foundation we're still looking heritage foundation propose what's called obamacare the heritage site how do i need seven and i hear the foundations today is proposing reforms to medicare and medicaid that are going to go bankrupt if the program is not fixed and this puts it more easily into as a put option republican point is let's all if we can it puts choice in people's hands the same kind of choice that members of congress have which folks don't have today so if you give people this kind of choice and then you can also in your use

have the choice of which for profit companies they want and then we have x. payers to pay for it so you don't think people should have any choice at all tom i pat you the to. yes i think i do we do we should all of them have choice health care right there john shelly's sure it was no choice in the man i think i would have her body not like we're going to. health care and and i would like to dance for different kinds of you know what i would like to move along with a controversy already it was drug testing programs down a floor this is started it's going around the country and they're brilliant idea apparently brought to us by alec and the koch brothers. people who get food stamps should be drug tested because it's make sure that they're not or any kind of assistance that you get some states and some people saying well if somebody gets unemployment insurance they need to be drug tested why. why not exactly what i mean if you're certain and they should know your privacy they're taking our tax dollars which they may need i have no objection to get into a safe you know when you were going to the secret service you were taking our tax

dollars and i was drug tested so i'm not because you are taking our tax dollars because i had to run around with a gun right but how do we know tom if we're not taking your tax dollars to support someone who may very well need it that they're not spending the money on drugs i mean that's a very reasonable requirement to take a drug test before you're entitled to taxpayer dollars but happen you all have it both ways but you want what both ways government you want government out of our lives except in the bedroom you want government out of our lives except for drug testing but i'm not asking for government benefits you have to go and ask for that no one forces them when you go to ask for introducing them if you're. if you're a victim of this republican recession. you have you have no choice about employers here's my question about this mike isn't isn't drug addiction a disease. sure looked like a drug addict just a probability little i think that here it is true but let me just curious to drug

addictions a disease. liver cancer is a disease that if somebody if somebody has cancer you treat it if somebody has a drug addiction you treat it you don't say to them we're going to stop giving you food stamps right i don't get this that's exactly right look if somebody is going to the federal government or the state government and saying i want some benefits there's and i am hungry and i say as little as attend we're going to say we're going to stop feeding you because you have a disease should if i'm a taxpayer that's already overburdened with paying taxes to fund the government do i want my money yeah there are those fires you i don't want my money to go to pay for somebody who's a drug addict kids to get few are not out where you want your money to go pay for food for somebody who has pneumonia well that's someone who has already had a mouth soup how do you know there are charities we never never catch up with the social costs that we've had in the last thirty years we've had. you know seriously

we've had declining wages for thirty years i'm wondering now how would she have one who have never in your lives seen a can on the counter in a convenience store as we're trying to raise one hundred thousand dollars for for a liver transplant for so everybody i grew up poor i ate bologna and cheerios for dinner for many years i lived to see how many were so he's never seen as anybody never seen one of those because not like it's going to if we see if you've seen one of those you've seen a country that systems are failing i'm just curious to know what is in europe what is happening the drug i just i really dislike to see why what is the big fear about a drug test for somebody it is a lot of time if it's reserve unit how zippy is humiliating and how is it humiliating jail's going to hit it too because they broke the law i mean here drugs are illegal in this country most of them i mean i understand what are you against jail as well is this is presumptive presence there is a native. somebody if somebody if you know somebody is walking down the street small going to joint yeah arrest them although i think it should be criminalized

but still if somebody breaks the law if somebody breaks and it's not accurate because the drug test comes back clean what was the promise made they still get the benefits so where was this but it was that they had to take a day off well on our day out of there out of a cold like all our people to grow up and as you know we had bets that because it's so humiliating hard it's really also you have to do it's right maybe you know. people are saying this is a disease of drug addiction we should treat cut off their food i've had a drug test for my last two jobs and i was not humiliated and i was glad to go to work the next eight years had passed that i know if i needed benefits eighty four is here and it's i find it you know you probably enjoy going through airport security too i just know it's all it's all been a big brother has gone way too far and well it's a big government in our lives like that i mean it goes back i get to the conservatives love it goes back to their conservative position government out of our lives except in the bedroom government out of our lives except. in our

bloodstream i mean you know if you're going to get them in a house ok a new report by the british newspaper the guardian reports the thing to thanks to these alec promoted written by wal-mart and the n.r.a. so-called first was your stand your ground law. the rate of justifiable homicide in the u.s. is since two thousand and five twenty five percent lower twenty five percent increase in murders that are not prosecuted the dan gross president brady campaign said this research demonstrates a fundamental point stand your ground laws are dangerous on their own as mentality we're also seen homicides justifiable homicides committed by police officers are going up as well that's a whole mentality associated with this that's sweeping the country isn't it time for us to pull back from this and stop being the rand of the fearful and trigger happy go back to being the home of the brave. very point you know this is it's not a new concept to defend yourself if somebody is using lethal force against you it's

under the common law which audience vacuity there is a few others can't say if somebody comes after you and they're using lethal force and you can respond and it's up to people to not you're the reason was if it's true that it's up to a jury to decide whether somebody when you have somebody to get it to the jury which means you have to have an arrest of the prosecutor and right now that's not happening and i don't i don't know how anybody. then look at the. trayvon disaster in florida and not realize how dangerous these stand your ground laws are that was horrible and it's one of many examples i have a bit of a police officer and a secret service agent for sixteen years i've seen it from both sides to get having been on both sides of the question haven't responded to muggings again i happen to agree i don't understand you asking people to be prey and when you start to talk to folks in baltimore city good folks they're there in relatively high crime areas i mean what do you ask them to run first if you can't get away then what if when you

when you really can't make it any further then you're allowed to turn around and defend yourself i don't stand with a gun control laws do nothing to keep criminals from taking guns on top of the gun control laws i'm talking about a lot of that very socially shoot first as soon as you're free to shoot first well that's not what it says it says if you're in reasonable fear for your life you were allowed to take it off it's a back now again what are you asking them to do with and why was that zimmerman prosecuted once he was going to realize that i did on the show but that that's as is a horrible case it's a i said on the show we still don't know what because you're all going on it's own so it's not it's a tragedy i agree but this stand your ground laws i think because we don't know the facts of the cation no one knows we can't try it on the show the stand your ground laws are a completely separate entity these the laws were passed to help sell more guns to the n.r.a. and to diminish the the liability that wal-mart was in and that's why the. we got to wrap things up thank you and i will be back actually coming up there's a controversy surrounding the masters golf tournaments is getting the attention of

both president obama and mitt romney a little bit after the word. fuck fuck fuck fuck . see the story. is it you understand it. something else some other part of it and realized everything is all. part of the big picture.

for.

the other back to the night big picture rubble joining me tonight mike brown field editor of the foundry and were the morning bell assistant director of strategic communications at the heritage foundation stuart chief of staff the utility workers union of america former director of organizing the f.l. c.e.o. and author of the book plane bigger than you are a life in organizing and dan bongino republican candidate for the u.s. senate from the great state of maryland let's continue the biggest golf tour of the year the masters started this week and the talk isn't so much about tiger woods it's about whether or not women should be allowed to be members of the augusta national golf club they're not they can't they can't show up in fact for the last eighty years one of the traditions with the masters is that the c.e.o.

of the biggest companies in america i.b.m. has been one of them for thirty forty fifty years is always invited to sit in a place of prominence the c.e.o. of i.b.m. right now is a woman and the masters have not yet released whether or not they're going to invite her it pretty bizarre both the president and mitt romney say women should be allowed to join a private club but he goes that if i was in charge i would say absolutely so you want the government to force this quiet the problem is that we have something called free association and it's a right protected under the first amendment and you don't like we may not agree with the decision of what a private club wants to do but it's that is. that right there we have under under the bill of rights that said i'm wondering why anybody's talking about an issue like this when we have a point he was discriminating against women when we had eight point two percent unemployment and thirteen million people out of work well i certainly know it's awfully pretty mind that we can and should and will do some discuss and have

discussed books for you so see ation was created to allow inclusion not exclusion and i don't know how it anybody anybody today could make any argument that a woman should be excluded from any private club how in the world is that right look what happens that golf clubs people play golf people make deals people make business deals people get promoted people kiss each other's butts you know it's it is a way of it is a way of life in corporate america and if you deny riverman the opportunity to play there or to be part of it you are in fact not only establishing but strengthening glass ceiling is just wrong i'm a male and i can't get into augusta because i don't have the connections warren buffet can but his secretary who we seem so concerned about she can't get in so what do you want to see what is it what do you want to do you have

a government come in and say this is what you as a private organization must and must not be. but the woman c.e.o. who's the head of i.b.m. who is just as rich as any other man and just as qualified can't get that was the solution but well you know liberty it is. thomas all of my favorite economists as a couple of great sayings and a lot of his books reeses you know discrimination is usually painful for the company that discriminates you know if you discriminate against women then you know i think government coercion is not the answer but you know you're free to make dumb decisions it's a terrible decision i think that's their freedom and liberty to do that but you're free to make their own decisions until it reaches the point. of what the point. mine the point here. are you to make sure you're free to make dumb decisions until you shout fire in a crowded theater you're free to make decisions until you beat your kids your freedom a gun decisions to do a whole lot of things until they. isn't isn't augusta. assuming

that there's an argument to be made for private clubs discriminating in ways that might or might not be legal let's just assume that for against women or against any group that they happen to you know people whatever. isn't there an argument to be made though that because augusta is seen in every living room in america because because they make millions and millions of dollars a nationally televised that they're not a private club anymore that they are basically a public space well and therefore should not be allowed to do your own back. i'm really ashamed of billy payne who as you know ran the ninety six olympics in atlanta i'm surprised i'm ashamed that it barely paying this is the old south. in augusta and it's time to be rid of the old south last fire course last question quick fire mitt romney is down eighteen points to president obama when it comes to female voters if the numbers stay that way president wins in

a landslide so will mitt romney have to pick a female running mate to close the gap and if so who might he pick thoughts sarah pailin. if you hate leaves out there today to see ok nikki haley that is south carolina so i think he has the pace but he doesn't have to know but if you do and you know i think there's lots of talk they talk about how ann romney is agree and advocate invoice campaign that can help help mitt romney in the campaign he can pick her though he can take her. being out there it will take care of the problem for so maybe yeah ok i think it's going to be nikki haley the if he if he decides to go that way she would be what sarah palin should see so it could help us here in the south they see my trouble in my own fields through the story and you know thank you very much because you guys.

this year republicans are going to lie all the way to the november election why because line works in fact mitt romney is already lined here's what romney said this wednesday about president obama's medicare reforms. three and a half years later he has failed to enact or even propose a serious plan to solve the a total crisis instead he has taken a series of steps that end medicare as we know it. he is the only president to ever cut five hundred billion dollars from medicare that's a serious allies and he didn't end medicare as we know it in fact he strengthened it and he didn't cut five hundred billion from medicare he instead cut down on the waste fraud and abuse in medicare including stopping one hundred thirty six billion dollars in corporate welfare to private health insurance companies to administer medicare advantage programs and now thanks to that cut medicare advantage is

running far more efficiently covering more seniors and lower premiums and here's the thing about that lie if president obama were to give a speech tomorrow regarding refuting that lie in the law i actually becomes more effective as the washington post pointed out back in two thousand and eight a series of new experiments show that misinformation can exercise a ghostly influence on people's minds after it has been debunked even among people who recognize it as misinformation in some cases correcting misinformation serves to increase the power of bad information duke and georgia state university political scientists brendan nyhan and jason reifler did a series of experiments on how effective political liars are into two groups of people gave both groups the bush administration's claims about weapons of mass destruction in iraq and they gave just one group of people evidence proving that

the bush administration was lying about the w m d claims here's what the scientists found out when told about the bush claims of w m d's thirty four percent of conservatives believed iraq had nukes but in the second group which had heard the refuting evidence the proof that it was a lie the number of people who believed the lie actually jumped up to sixty four percent of conservatives who believe that iraq had w m d's basically the live became more effective when it was debunked scientists call this the backfire effect and they noticed the same results when they gave conservatives claims from the bush administration it's. because for the rich will increase government revenues the number of people believing bush nearly doubled when they also heard evidence from real a crowd of musts refuting bush's arguments that tax cuts increase rather the washington post sums up the conclusions of the experiments writing republicans might be especially prone to backfire in fact because conservatives may have more rigid views than liberals upon hearing

a refutation conservatives might argue back against the refutation in their minds thereby strengthening their belief in the misinformation that i had a rifle or did not see the same back for effect when liberals were given misinformation and a refutation so when bush lied to take the nation to war in iraq those who tried to push back against that lie only made the lied more strongly believed i can service that might explain why john mccain based so much of his presidential campaign on why back in two thousand and eight they were proud of national committee counted one hundred seventy five major lives by the mccain palin campaign and c.n.n. did a report asking whether or not mccain and sarah palin were literally why in their way into the white house paul it but you will mistruths half truths stretching the truth telling the truth whatever it is it has both democrats and republicans questioning what's going on inside the mccain campaign their opponents have gone so

far as to say that john mccain and sarah fail and are lying their way into the white house. john mccain's allies nearly one in the white house which is saying a lot considering he was coming from party the george w. bush had run into the ground he was committed to a very unpopular war he'd pick a vice president who was woefully unqualified and he was running up against one of the most gifted politicians of our time who outspending on t.v. three to one yet he still nearly won and this year with mitt romney most likely to spend a billion dollars thanks to the super pacs made possible by the supreme court citizens united decision those lies will be even more effective if the president tries to push back on them with facts he could lose so what's to be done well as the science shows you can't get in the mud and wrestle facts with conservative liars because the liars win the hearts of their base instead what you do is you call out the liars as liars that's what franklin roosevelt did back in one nine hundred thirty

six calling out the liars in the republican party who were trying to destroy the new deal. and you you. let me make. any big. thing. we didn't. we didn't even know. we only baby. some. like the way the. brain is doing them. we will do. we will be them and.

but doing our will not. anybody any. roosevelt won reelection that year or anyone again four years later and again four years later you see the only way you beat liars is to call them out as liars that's it for the big pictures don't forget the mocker see begins when you get out there and get active when you start pointing out some of these lies you know the media's not doing right every sunday morning you can see this you see on the news how many people were pushing back on mitt romney for saying that barack obama wants to end medicare as we know it not true that was the paul ryan budget that mitt romney signed and so we need to get out there and better to get out there get back ok your it seems with.

all. i've. done.

is easy to. see he. says.