q. . right here you ready to rumble joining me for tonight's big picture rumbalara mike brown field editor of the foundry and the morning belum assistant director of strategic communications at the heritage foundation stuart take up his chief of staff the utility workers union of america and former director of organizing legendary director of organizing for the c.e.o. and author of the book plane bigger than you are a life of organizing and dan bongino republican candidate for the u.s. senate in the great state of maryland the commonwealth was no no it's a state it will take it as a state it's our state yeah it's actually the state i mix them up i'm sorry ok let's start out here. with mitt romney i want to start with health care mitt romney's wife ann has a history of breast cancer and has multiple sclerosis she would be uninsurable right now in the united states if she was not

a quarter billionaire how what what plan do the republicans have for people like ann romney who are not worth a quarter of a billion dollars. well look i'm glad that m.s. is the subject of conversation because there's there's an interesting look if you look at the u.k. if you look at scotland which has a government run health care program the government there said that this new groundbreaking drug to help people with multiple sclerosis would not be approved because the government made a decision that it wasn't cost effective so we could have a health care system like obamacare we're bureaucrats are making decisions for us here what what republicans are offering not what scotland's offer it's. we are just grandmothers called b f u h p which is composed by paul ryan it is a government run program but it's run well because the government doesn't run it but people do when i was a member of the secret service they gave you a booklet and they said you pick your own insurance plan that's not what happens

now in a lot of these government run plans and you know i think the gist of it is that the market has failed that medicine and i would say well let's try it some time there is no free market medicine forty percent of medicine is paid for by the government whereas i don't see where the free market is if you want to so all the free market the free market i think i think it's a canard sixty percent of his apparently the market that really hasn't worked with with health care i mean there's no question about that you know until you know we've got about forty million people without health care. and if the republicans succeed in changing medicare and medicaid people like my father will be kicked out of the his assisted living because he has alzheimer's so there is an effective i do agree that there are effective government run health care plans the v.a. the federal employees their congressional plan over and over medicaid medicare they all work and. we've left forty fifty million people out of the health

care of your mates and am paying for their emergency care in the emergency in the emergency room. the hospital it's called the rest i'm going to sign that there's a market based system right now and we do not have an entirely free market system will eventually no insurance companies would argue with you about that there's no such things for. you say you're going to have a basketball game or a football game of the referee but think about this the next forty million number has been skewed it's really closer to ten million now if you average insurance policies closer to five thousand a year for something like eight so just one person doesn't that say something really bad about this country of course but i'm not saying we should result of a safety net but we're setting a safety net at such a ridiculous high level ridiculously high level it's not a safe it's now turning into a amec and that takes money away from people who really need it you know money is a zero sum game there's only so much to throw around so we're good if we're giving it to families making eighty thousand dollars a year what about people who are really struggling who need it that's not

a safety net and that's what we're doing it's not a zero sum game if there is a lot of money in the united states economy what health care the money and so on we're spending twice as much for health care in this country we're getting half the results absolutely you're absolutely right you look at every other industrialized country in the world they get better health care for less calls and we do but the fordable care act is not the solution to this problem already have back that sounds question what is sure so the republicans do have ideas that conservatives have ideas a mortgage foundation we're still looking heritage foundation propose what's not called obamacare they're here to show how do i need seven and i hear the foundations today is proposing reforms to medicare and medicaid that are going to go bankrupt if the program is not fixed and this point maurice is a republican please let's all get it puts choice in people's hands the same kind of choice that members of congress have which folks don't have today so if you give

people this kind of choice and then you can also in their use have the choice of which for profit company they want and then we did x. players to pay for it and so you don't think people should have any choice at all tom i don't bad you didn't. yes i think we should all go to him choice health care right john shelly's sure it was no choice in the man i think of the provisos not like we're going to. health care. and i would like to dance for different kinds of candidate who would like to move along with the controversy over ticket was drug testing programs down a floor this is started it's going around the country another brilliant idea apparently brought to us by alligator brothers. people who get food stamps should be drug tested to to make sure that they're not or any kind of assistance that you get some states and some people saying well if somebody gets unemployment insurance they need to be drug tested why. why not yet exactly what. it is yours is an invasion of your privacy they're taking our tax dollars which they may need i have

no objection you get to a safe area where you work and have the secret service you're taking our tax dollars and i was drug tested not because they were taking her tax dollars just because i had was running around with a gun right but how do we know tom if we're not taking your tax dollars to support someone who may very well need it that they're not spending the money on drugs i mean it's a very reasonable requirement to take a drug test before you're entitled to taxpayer dollars but happen you all have it both ways where you want what both ways government you want government out of our lives except in the bedroom you want government out of our lives except for drug testing but i'm not asking for government benefits you have to go and ask for them what forces them on you go to ask for here introducing if you're. if you're a victim of this republican recession. you bad you have no choice about an employer yes here's my question about this mike isn't isn't drug addiction a disease. sure look ok drug addiction is

a problem let me go let me let me carry this through but let me just curious there are drug addictions a disease. you know liver cancer is a disease that if somebody if somebody has cancer you treat it if somebody has a drug addiction you treat it you don't say to them we're going to stop giving you food stamps right i don't get this that's exactly right look if somebody is going to the federal government or the state government and saying i want some benefits there's and i am hungry. yes that's how we're going to say we're going to stop feeding you because you have a disease should if i'm a taxpayer that's already overburdened with pain taxes to fund the government i want my money or do i want the other our crew i don't want my money to go to pay for somebody who's a drug addict kids to get fuel are not out where you want your money to go pay for food for somebody who has pneumonia or gold or someone who has already had a matter to how do you know that charities will have her never kept up with the social costs that we've had in the last thirty years we've had. no seriously we've

had declining or flat wages for thirty years i was wondering which is widely i have never in your lives seen you can counter any convenience stores as we're trying to raise one hundred thousand dollars for for a liver transplant for so everybody i grew up poor i ate bologna and cheerios for dinner for many years i lived it see how many worse ways never seen as anybody never seen one of those because that like it's ok if we see if you've seen one of those you've seen a country that systems are failing i'm just curious you know what is in europe what is problem with having a drug that i just i really just want to see why what is the big fear about a drug test for somebody it is a one time if it's really serious unit how zippy is humiliating and how is it humiliating jail's going to hit it too because they broke the law i mean your drugs are illegal in this country most of them i mean i understand what are you against jail as well is this is presumptive result a result of a. somebody if somebody if you know somebody is rocking on the street smokin to

joint yeah arrest them although i think it should be criminalized but still if somebody breaks the law somebody breaks it sort of accurate because the drug test comes back clean what was the punishment they still get the benefits so where was this money was that they had to take a day off well day out of there out a call like all our people take up and as you know we added that's because we humiliated it's. all seem to have you do you like that's right maybe you know as i believe you all are saying this is a disease and drug addiction we should treat cut off their food i have a drug test for my last two jobs and i was not humiliated and i was going to go to work that night stay years had passed and know if i needed ben and i did see the four is here and it's kind of you know you probably enjoy going through airport security too i just know it's all it's all been a big brother has gone way too far and i'm well it's a big government in our lives like that i mean it goes i get to the conservatives love it goes back to the conservative position government out of our lives except

in the bedroom government out of our lives except in. our bloodstream i mean you know if you're going to get them in the house ok a new report by the british newspaper the guardian reports the think thanks to these alec promoted written by wal-mart and the n.r.a. so-called just shoot first was your stand your ground law that the rate of justifiable homicides in assistance to the thousand five is gone up twenty five percent or twenty five percent increase in murders that are not prosecuted the president brady campaign said this research demonstrates a fundamental point stand your ground laws are dangerous on their own as mentality we're also seen homicides justifiable homicides committed by police officers are going up as well that's a whole mentality associated with this and sweeping the country isn't it time for us to pull back from this and stop being the land of the fearful and the trigger happy go back to being the home of the brave. great points but you know this is it's not a new concept to defend yourself if somebody is using lethal force against you it's

under the common law which backyards and others can if somebody comes after you and they're using lethal force then you can respond and it's up people did not really reason was if they need to do that it's up to a jury to decide whether somebody went in there as somebody to get it to the jury which means you have to have an arrest of the prosecutor and right now that's not happening and i don't i don't know how anybody. can look at this trayvon disaster in florida and not realize how. stand your ground laws are there was horrible and it's one of many examples i have a bit of a police officer and a secret service agent for sixteen years i've seen it from both sides again having been on both sides of the equation haven't responded to muggings i guess i happen to agree i don't understand you asking people to be prey and when you start to talk to folks in baltimore city good folks they're there in relatively high crime areas

i mean what are you asking to run first and if you can't get away then what if when you when you really can't make it any further then you are allowed to turn around and defend yourself i don't understand you with a gun control laws do nothing to keep criminals from taking guns it's not like gun control laws i'm talking about a lot of the right socially shoot first as soon as your friends shoot first one that's not its size it's as if you're in reasonable fear for your life you were allowed to get off it's a back now again what are you asking them to do and why was that zimmerman prosecuted why is he walking around a little bit i've been on the show about this it is a horrible case it's a i said on the show we still don't know what they did something so it's not it's not by itself it's a tragedy i agree to this stand your ground laws i think because we don't know the facts of the case yet no one does we can try it on the show the stand your ground laws are completely separate entities these things was repaired some more guns from the n.r.a. and to diminish the the liability that wal-mart was in and that's why these notes were we got to wrap it over though i'm certain they were thank you very we'll be

back actually coming up there's a controversy surrounding the masters golf tournaments is going to need tension both president obama and mitt romney will be added after the great. fun fun fun fun . think you understand it and the. other part of it and realize that everything is.

part of the big picture. for.

what about the night big picture rubble joining me tonight mike brown field editor of the foundry and with the morning bell system director of strategic communications at the heritage foundation stuart a couple chief of staff utility workers union of america former director of organizing the f.l. cion author of the book plane bigger than you are a life in organizing and dan bongino republican candidate for the u.s. senate from the great state of maryland let's continue the biggest hole golf tour of the year the masters started this week and the talk isn't so much about tiger woods it's about whether or not women should be allowed to be members of the augusta national golf club they're not they can't they can't show up in fact for

the last eighty years one of the traditions with the masters is that the c.e.o. of the biggest companies in america i.b.m. has been one of them for thirty forty fifty years is always invited to sit in a place of prominence the c.e.o. of i.b.m. right now is a woman and the master's hopes have not yet released whether or not they're going to invite her it pretty bizarre both the president and mitt romney say women should be allowed to join a private club but i guess that if i was in charge i would say absolutely so you want the government to force this quiet the problem is that we have something called free association and it's a right protected under the first amendment and you don't want we may not agree with the decision of what a private club wants to do but it's that it's. that right there we have under under the bill of rights that said i'm wondering why anybody's talking about an issue like this when we have eight points universe discriminating against women when we have eight point two percent unemployment and thirteen million people out of work

but i say well it's pretty mind that we can and should and will do so discuss and have this those books for you so see asian was created to allow inclusion not exclusion and i don't know how anybody anybody today could make any argument that a woman should be excluded from any private club how in the world is that right look what happens that. people play god people make deals people make business deals people get promoted people kiss each other's butts you know it's it is a way of it is a way of life in corporate america and if you deny women the opportunity to play there or to be part of it you are in fact not only establishing but strengthening the glass ceiling is just wrong i'm a male and i can't get into a gossip because i don't have the connections warren buffett can but his secretary who we seem so concerned about she can't get in so what is super serious is what do

you want to do you have the government come in and say this is what you as a private organization must be you are but no no no but the woman c.e.o. who's the head of i.b.m. who is just as rich as any other man and just as qualified can't get but what's the solution but well you know liberty it is. this commission against thomas all of my favorite economists as a couple of great sayings in a lot of his books reeses you know discrimination is usually painful for the company that discriminates you know if you discriminate against women then you know i think government coercion is not the answer but you know you're free to make dumb decisions it's a terrible decision i think that's their freedom and liberty to do that but you have freedom make decisions until it reaches the point. of what the point. mine the point of it rather immature for you to make sure you're free to make your own decisions until you shout fire in a crowded theater you're free to make dumb decisions until you beat your kids you're free to make dumb decisions to do

a whole lot of things until they are isn't isn't augusta. assuming that there's an argument to be made for private clubs discriminating in ways that might or might not be legal let's just assume that for against women or against any group that they happen to you know whatever. isn't there an argument to be made though that because augusta is seen in every living room in america because because they make millions and millions of dollars are being nationally televised that they're not a private club anymore that they are basically a public space well and therefore should not be allowed as a young bat i'm really ashamed of billy payne who as you know ran the ninety six olympics in atlanta i'm surprised in the same day that it billy payne this is the old south. in augusta and it's time to be rid of the old south last fire course last question quickly or mitt romney is down eighteen points to

president obama when it comes to female voters if the numbers stay that way president wins in a landslide so will bit romney have to pick a female running mate to close the gap and if so who might he pick thoughts sarah pay with the. effort to keep it leaves out there today nikki haley that of south carolina i think he has the pace well he doesn't have to you know but if you do and you know i think there's a lot you talk they talk about how an around the is agree and advocate invoice campaign that can help help mitt romney in the campaign he can pick of them he can take her just being out there still take care of the ground force or maybe ok i think it's going to nikki haley but if he if he decides to go that way she would be what sarah palin show to see so it could help us in the south they see might trouble him mike brown fields through the story and you know thank you very much thank you to some guys.

this year republicans are going to lie all the way to the november election why because the line works in fact mitt romney is already like here's what romney said this wednesday about president obama's medicare reforms three and a half years later he has failed to enact or even propose a serious plan to solve the intelligent crisis. instead he has taken a series of steps that end medicare as we know it. he is the only president to ever cut five hundred billion dollars from medicare that's a serious ally's he didn't end medicare as we know it in fact he strengthened it and he didn't cut five hundred billion from medicare he instead cut down on the waste fraud and abuse in medicare including stopping one hundred thirty six billion dollars in corporate welfare to private health insurance companies to administer

medicare advantage programs and now thanks to that cut medicare medicare advantage is running far more efficiently covering more seniors and lower premiums and here's the thing about that law if president obama were to give a speech tomorrow regarding refuting that lie in the law i actually becomes more effective as the washington point post pointed out back in two thousand and eight a series of new experiments show that misinformation can exercise a ghostly influence on people's minds after it has been debunked even among people who recognize it as misinformation in some cases correcting misinformation serves to increase the power of bad information duke and georgia state university political scientists brendan nyhan and jason reifler did a series of experiments on how effective political liars are it took two groups of people gave both groups the bush administration's claims about weapons of mass destruction in iraq then they gave just one group of people evidence proving that

the bush administration was lying about the w m d questions here's what the scientists found out when told about the bush claims of w m d's thirty four percent of conservatives believed iraq had nukes but in the second group which had heard the refuting evidence the proof that it was a lie the number of people who believed the lie actually jumped up to sixty four percent of conservatives who believe that iraq had w m d's basically the live became more effective when it was debunked scientists call this the backfire effect and they noticed the same results when they gave conservatives claims from the bush administration. it tax cuts for the rich will increase government revenue the number of people believing bush nearly doubled when they also heard evidence from real economists refuting bush's arguments that tax cuts increase revenue the washington post sums up the conclusions of the experiments writing republicans might be especially prone to backfire effect because conservatives may have more

rigid views than liberals upon hearing a refutation conservatives might argue back against the refutation in their minds thereby strengthening their belief in the misinformation i had to write for did not see the same back for effect where liberals were given misinformation and a refutation so when bush lied to take the nation to war in iraq those who try to push back against that lie only made the lie more strongly believed by conservatives that might explain why john mccain based so much of his presidential campaign why back in two thousand and eight they were crowded national committee counted one hundred seventy five major lives by the mccain palin campaign and c.n.n. did a report asking whether or not mccain and sarah palin were literally lying their way into the white house. but you will mistruths half truths stretching the truth telling the truth whatever it is it has both democrats and republicans questioning

what's going on inside the mccain campaign their opponents have gone so far as to say that john mccain and sarah palin are lying their way into the white house. john mccain's lies nearly one in the white house which is saying a lot considering he was coming from party with george w. bush would run into the ground he was committed to a very unpopular war he had picked a vice president who was woefully unqualified and he was running up against one of the most gifted politicians of our time who outspending on t.v. three to one yet he still nearly won and this year with mitt romney most likely to spend a billion dollars thanks to the super pacs made possible by the supreme court citizens united decision those lies will be even more effective if the president tries to push back on them with facts he could lose so what's to be done well as the science shows you can't get in the mud and wrestle facts with conservative liars because the liars win the hearts of their base instead what you do is you call out the

liars as liars that's what franklin roosevelt did back in one nine hundred thirty six calling out the liars in the republican party who were trying to destroy the new deal. and you. can bet. it ain't. the thing. we. we believe in all the time. we really baby. some. night oh wait a minute frank is doing. what.

we do. we will get him and then. doing our will not cause any body any. roosevelt won reelection that year anyone again four years later and again four years later you see the only way you beat liars is to call them out as liars that's it for the big pictures forget democracy begins when you get out there and get active when you start playing out some of these lies you know the media's not doing right every sunday morning you can see this you see on the news how many people were pushing back on mitt romney for saying that rock obama wants to end medicare as we know how true that was the paul ryan budget that mitt romney signed and so we need to get out there and what it is you know forget acting your it soonish with.

first. of.

all.