and i on our panel will be discussing the buffett rule and for more on these stories that we covered go to you tube dot com slash r t america or r t dot com slash usa you can also follow me on twitter at christine. you. think it's.

a low in welcoming rostock i'm peter lavelle well many people are turning to facebook's timeline to share all kinds of experiences and moments others are concerned about the security and safety of this new interface but there's the new facebook timeline me and who benefits from this new feature. to keep. crosstalk facebook's timeline i'm joined by terry carney in london he is the managing director of sales remedy he is also a business mentor and business developer in seattle we go to we need to run my sauce tracy is the de wayne in and get injured professor of law at the university of washington and in san francisco we have roman cardassian ski he is the c.e.o. and co-founder of news three sixty a personalized news application or a focus is crossed out that means you can jump in anytime you want and for me

started as question let's take a look at timeline what facebook has recently introduced and has caused a great deal of controversy here this is and there's the patroller she's the executive producer of cross talk and this is what they have done here now it's very controversial and some some people have said up to seventy percent of respondents don't like what facebook has done so let's talk about what facebook is doing right and wrong a need to if i can go to you first and in seattle about a week ago i was sitting in starbucks here in moscow and sat down opened up my computer went to facebook and then went to him buy a cup of coffee and by the time i'd come back from buying my coffee i'd been timeline and i wasn't very happy about it i was vaguely aware that it was happening i'm not a big facebook person but i honestly didn't like that i thought it was quite arrogant on the part of facebook i had no fair warning and i didn't know what was going on and as a you know a participant of the facebook experience i thought i was being left out what do you

think about what facebook is doing. well i've written about this and i think it's just again it's intrusive in the sense that people aren't really aware that this is mandatory time lines being rolled out around the world and at some point you're going to be timelines which means that you know not normally when you post on your wall you know you see stuff that's very recent but i mean facebook's been around for years now so timeline makes all of your stuff so those old posts years ago from parties you went to you in the drinks that you had with people you may regret it's now on that wall and it's much more easily searchable so it's really the fact that suddenly there's a virtual diary that's on the web and so you know friends and enemies that may still have access to your page can can easily search and you know in some sense to get dirt on you so the fact that you know the notice wasn't really i think if you start where people are expected in that it's really difficult to opt out if you want to get rid of stuff you're going to now have to spend a lot of time scrubbing your page and deleting stuff that's from years ago so facebook is really putting the burden on its users to deal with this and saying

kind of take it and if you want to clean it up it's your problem ok terry what about that it's free i mean you know facebook is free i mean if you don't like being on it then leave ok it's your page you do what you want with it i mean counterintuitive you're ok i mean why should facebook be responsible for your content well to be honest you know my opinion on the season i'm very focused on a business these markings social media and i actually really embraced timeline and see it as a great possibility of showing the growth of your time on facebook yes there's privacy issues but you know at the end a little. bit of a new area of privacy been taken from us and to be honest i think of it more privacy taken from lee in the bars and restaurants of london have on earth poach. like. oh yeah but to be honest you know my credit card has been cloned twice in london and that was in bars to get no one's ever stolen my identity on facebook

perhaps i'm just not these are born off i don't know ok roman if i go to you in san francisco where you jump in on this i mean it is you're not going to have a well maybe we'll have a time line in a bar one day but that's an interesting difference roman where you jump in on this . yeah i think it's always as always if you have a consumer product and you change something especially if you're as popular as facebook there's going to be backlash and there has been significant backlash against timeline but in terms of you know stuff being more visible i think that's actually positive in the sense that this is all the post that you did back into that five when you were in college or something there were still there it was there were still possible to find them but you were probably not aware that because you didn't see them on a regular basis and now that you're out of your timeline this is something you want to own because you know this is your public face whereas before the wall just used to be what's happening right now with you where you are and what you're doing now you have this history of your life that you want to make sure that it's you know that it's good when people see is you know but officials here image so i think it's

actually it's good they've made it so searchable and so discoverable because now people are going to go back and look at ok what would have published especially since you know before all the privacy before like you have to see ruling a lot of the primary settings that people had back in the day were you know they were not aware aware of what was public and what was friends only so now this is a good way to go back and say ok here's here's my whole life and what i need to call from here what i need to clean up and essentially what this forces people to do is own up to that to what they're posting and you know make sure that their timeline is something that the people want people to see other than words before people would you know malicious people with malicious intent would actually be able to go and find stuff that you were not aware of any it's continue with the way it looks that we need to i mean it went from kind of trying to go to scrapbook ok but you know i just recently got an i phone and i put it instagram on their own what why facebook paid a billion dollars worth of history to me but anyway it's a different republic you know and i did a picture of my little toy terrier and i put it on there but that's not the most

important event of my life it happens to be part of my life the way it looked before it was more prioritized what i thought was important now facebook is telling me what's important and what is important is exactly what i just did yeah go ahead . it's creating new categories too so it's starting to ask you for more personal information about things like major life events like divorces or illnesses things you know medical conditions deaths in your family now those may seem innocuous and again yes the onus is on us to clean up our profile but there are different people and different you know there are teenagers and there are people my age middle aged you know users who are going to have different time and different knowledge of what should and shouldn't be scribed i think the concern there is at the end of the day facebook wants us to put more intimate information in these new categories they're creating because they want to sell that data or they want you know other parties to create applications to use that and that's the part that people still don't fully understand which is that when they're you know signing on or using new kinds of

apps with interfaces that the data is now being provided you know through timeline is going to be pulled and used i've written recently about another trend which is a bit alarming which is that employers are asking for people's access to people's pos word so they can look at their facebook accounts now a timeline makes it a lot easier for them to sort of see a lot of information much more quickly so yeah over time i think users may get used to the fact that they need to scrub they shouldn't provide certain information but it takes time and for facebook to kind of say you got to take it like this and you got to spend hours cleaning up your profile and by the way as you're doing that you're providing us more information there may be employers there may be app developers who are out there you know taking your information and using it in ways you didn't expect you know kerry is this really changing the nature of facebook because it seems like you just accommodating business corporations that want to you know information about you to sell you stuff i mean maybe i'm naive but that's not how i that's not how i looked at facebook up until a few weeks ago ok now i'm

a lot more suspicious so you're an expert on the business model go ahead. it is you know definitely i think where i sit here in in a conversation we're now having about facebook and so on line is the fact that my focus is very much business but i can relate to the personal aspects that are being raised here and i think if i just part jump back to the personal side of it i think facebook is encouraging us to pour more press in some and interesting detail into it and categorizing that data and actually people are interested in nice issue instinct people are noisy so they don't want to see more detail from a business perspective for me i think there's a great opportunity to show the growth of your bees knees build awareness and actually confidence you know you all it says you know it's a great way for a consumer to look back at the growth of a business or product or service ok i mean i can i can't disagree with terry but that's kind of our business i mean but most of facebook are people and if i'm going

to roman on this i mean do you i mean facebook is giving you the reputation of just being a target for people to send you ads right i mean that's not what it was before that's not how it started. well i mean i don't think it is just a target for ads anymore either i mean and just to come back to interesting little bit i mean we are one of the developer and we use the data that you have your facebook profile to give you a lot of value back for your time investment we look at all that you know all the stuff that you like you've posted with your friends with and try to use that information basically to filter news in a way that is very narrow in a way that brings you kind of very relevant news feeds that are exactly what your interests and that's just one of the ways you can use this everybody really there's no one's attention just really sounds extremely magnanimous to me ok but it sounds like you when you want to make a buck here i need to do you want to come in here because i mean people don't join facebook just as a business model i'm sorry they don't need to go if you're trying to i mean did you

go ahead and yeah this is all about let me just say this is all about context right and it's again customization where you're getting you know recommendations about newspaper articles that other people are reading that you might like to read might be a good. business model but i think again it's the issue of there's going to be a lot of unexpected ways in which that information which are being sort of encouraged to post is then used and it surprises you again new recent story which is that this is actually a russian location company i free innovations created called girls around me which is pulling publicly available information both from facebook and another company foursquare where you basically post your locations and created an app called girls around me where if someone was in a neighborhood they suddenly got a map showing them where young women are in bars and restaurants in their neighborhood right which is a kind of creepy right it's like well. yeah but you guys are great i mean if you look at the web page and go look at the web page it says things like

you know looking to hook up or want to one night stand right this is not an innocuous up and so again it's one of those things where you know you post and the consequences maybe. and intended ok kerry could i just jump in. i don't think we should just focus we've you know and probably we are both smiley but areas where you can be drawn to women away every might be there is a lot of positive information to actually resort to. things that we do want to say that are positive to enjoy you know. just the bad side of facebook i don't think it's all bad here ok on that note we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on facebook's stay. in.

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welcoming to pass the time carol to remind you we're talking about how facebook's timeline will change social networks. you can. still. ok and if i go back to you in seattle with this change in facebook you think it's self-defeating because it's so many people are dissatisfied with it can we see another social networking phenomena that will be similar to facebook that will but have the features that facebook used to have because if everyone's going to be so much more careful right now it kind of defeats the purpose of because facebook was a lot of fun and i'm not a big user of it but i liked it but now with all this i have to worry about my security and i should put a picture of me drinking with my friends that was all about being with your friends ok i mean is facebook taking a big risk here. i don't think it is and so i think facebook has made lots of

changes over the years in terms of its privacy policies and the settings and what information can and can't be seen and what they've seen is that you know they are relying on inertia right that you know there may be outrage but at the end of the day it takes effort for us to actually change what's there so i think they're going to see that yes some people will vote with their feet or opt out but a lot of people are going to stay on so that's why again part of this is and i'm not disagreeing with you with the other folks here so yeah part of this is about all of us educating ourselves but also demanding of the businesses that are taking our information to be very transparent about where it's going and for facebook to take some responsibility for that too in terms of privacy issues and third party apps but the other is for you know legislation and regulation is going to be important to hear you know like congress or in other countries parliament should be saying yeah it's not acceptable for employers to have access to that information so there's got to be limits placed i hope there are other business models that come around right linked in is the grown ups version of facebook and some extent for

professional networking so different sites for different different kinds of information i think is what you're going to see it's interesting terry do you do we do can i can i just yeah i was going to say you know we do see you know we just seeing facebook grow up that's all it's still relatively new phenomena go ahead i think. they are the environment you know we look at it from our point of view from the sort of what we do social media boys facebook really is a bit of a possible bit of a fun time these are trying to show not for us the responsibility of the use of to understand with like see and what they actually put into those social networks ok would you come in on that roman because i mean again you know you just it's facebook growing up it's i mean it's the business world and a personal social networking meeting and we should just get used to it. yeah i think i think the biggest challenge here is you know and there are alternatives to

facebook where there's google plus is making a huge push in trying to get people to come over and instead of using facebook try to use their platform but the challenges are the same it's having users realize where they're sharing it's either public or not public and i think that's the biggest problem that people don't have this understanding and oftentimes the prosecutors are obscure oftentimes it's very hard to understand where where where the photo that you're posting is going to go and who's going to see it and i think that the changes are you for the way that is going to go and is that go ahead terry jeffrey go ahead jump in. jump in here just for you cannot let your opinion on that obviously billions of part of the world dark blue fink plays a big part in nice and lots of people very quick to jump into social networks and game volved with facebook so you don't really understand what they're doing when it put information in there and how our own communities and what can be used to you know of. the you know agree on that one go ahead roland really about education yeah

i agree one hundred percent i agree one hundred percent and that's why i think that the regulation and the kind of government involvement should be around educating people because it's impossible to regulate. where it is you know the source facebook to tell you you need to go ahead so anything you have an education has i think again the size of the market here and education is helpful to a point about facebook itself but again it's that third party collection of data where you can expect consumers to anticipate all of the different business models that are developing and we just give you one example which i think is one of the more concerning which is that there's a company called social it's hell and it trawls the web it looks at not only your facebook posts but your tweets and all kinds of things that you're doing and it collects that information and provides it to employers so this isn't even about it when you apply for a job the company itself looking at your facebook page they go to a third party company that's basically collecting. a digital dossier about you even when you've deleted information at least in the us they're subject to

a kind of credit reporting laws but they keep that information for up to seven years so you may have deleted in one context but it's being used to make decisions about you and whether you should be hired or given credit in a completely different context and it's those kinds of things you can't just educate consumers because again i think government and consumers often don't know what those business models are so i do think that there is a role they are learning more regulators to understand and to try to roaming the local users. go ahead yeah so i think i think users have to understand it first i mean because yeah you can you can regulate itself and maybe american companies won't do this right they want a publicly available information or they'll comply when you delete information for a lot of lead from their profiles as well but there's a lot of international companies or don't fall under these watch so i think the user has to understand what he's sharing is going to be public are people going to see that this is just my friends or is this you know all these companies that are trying to to pull me. and with this i was those stories just going really. ok

kerry first in a need to go ahead you know i just i'm hearing both sides here anita and roman and you know i'm very much agreeing with the title of not peace out only use of it now and looking at the personal side of it and i agree with you know that the actual trolling of information building in a character witness affected fully and putting that forward to people you know can control people's lives and we've all put things on there that we should have been drunk in certain places and said certain things in posts and that you know i truly believe it is not the right use of it. you know there is a real responsibility issue and i totally agree that you cannot educate such a large audience it's nearly impossible. and i think about you because again i'm looking at the whole beginnings of facebook it was for your friends and you say things to your friends or you wouldn't see in other places and now we're learning that you have to be careful on facebook as well i get it kind of defeats the purpose of its origins at least. yeah you're right in saying that you know the term

friend you know friend. the business community and the wider public sphere so yeah maybe maybe we need a new term your business associates i don't know so yeah. actually i think the issue of what law applies is another way is going to be a big puzzle for every company right if the data is being used anywhere in the world if i'm going to merican consumer i should have the privacy protections applied to me here but what's interesting is that in the european union actually there is there's going to be a new right to be forgotten which is part of kind of european privacy right so europeans actually have more rights than americans when it comes to privacy in the private sphere and i don't know how facebook is going to deal with that right to be forgotten ok carrie i mean a couple of a couple of months ago i bought a watch it used to be some profanity t.v.

ok i work in television it was kind of a joke and it was on that speech and i put it on there so it's funny with my friends and all of a sudden i started getting all of these. for wristwatches and i didn't want those ads if they all keep flooding on to my page i don't like that. or i do you get used to it right. i don't know i don't think we should get used to it because you know the sign you know acquired ticket for a swiss airline and that's we sail on follows me you know and i've bought the ticket you know go wild on the deal spend my money and then i do disagree with that ain't that really what we're getting there is back to traditional interrupting of you mark t. when really we'd be late believe that social media is all about creating awareness of where your piece needs a person and drawer in the right type of information and people to you and i think leases we don't get really confused in mores of viable and what people use with the

information like go you know i don't like being followed i don't think any of us know except our people we know ok what do you think about that room and how do we avoid that or is it simply impossible i think that it is a little bit disconcerting to realize that you know that all of your actions are being interpreted in the sense of what is the best ad to to show you but i think it's this point it's impossible to go back i think. that it rising while also involved in the past like ten to fifteen years in such a way that i think it would be impossible to predict this at this point and everybody's doing it i mean even even you have to be on facebook to experience this just searching google you know a couple of times and all the ads that you see who are going to slowly start and kind of converge on what you were searching about so i think i think it's kind of usually let's go away oh the world i need to go ahead. but there should be limits again this is what's called behavioral advertising you know you're getting targeted ads that are based on kind of your preferences and what you're doing and when it comes to like wrist watches or you know airplane flights that's one thing but again

when you're getting into areas like pharmaceuticals medicine you know i again target recently it was revealed that they were able to predict based on the vitamins you buy when you're pregnant and start sending you coupons for a hearing before you disclose that you're pregnant so your life you know it so there are ways in which again. so the regulators and governments are starting to look at what are the appropriate limits limits to what they call behavioral advertising because i think there should be again too late to turn back but companies need to be responsible about this thinking carrie and i talk about something i could mention something that i need to mention earlier in the program we have to have a new term beyond friend more important than friend i mean it's a totally new word because then it's like that next level and we go back to the old days for k. or is that just illusory. always great to say let's go back to the old days of enjoy those and we do that in any part of our life but i think the thing here is

you know. lots of people have so-called frames but are not real true friends people very easy to associate yourself with people take a friendship when i don't know that person and i think to a certain degree google plus a saudi to look at this and it has circles that you join which are breaks up where the contact between people and i thought i do think it is time to revisit those who truly are your your call for ins and who are the people that perhaps. subscribing element of facebook from you want to listen to what you're talking about want to have a little view from the outside but not true close friends where you think you're only got ten seconds then the program. yeah i think i think there's definitely something that is you know that i mean that has to be explored i mean there are companies that are doing it like there's a social network that limits your connections to basically hundred fifty people you have to choose the right the right people to interact with and yeah i think i think that there is going to be a lot of these towns in the future as well ok this is all going to end up on our

timeline i'm sure many thanks to my guests today in london seattle and in san francisco and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the phoenix time remember a prostitute rules. and if you. think you want to. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big show.

he. gave. to me.