thanks for being with us tonight this is r.t. from moscow and kevin oh in the top stories mainstream media lash out at the former favorite whistleblower julie dishonest resorting to personal insults softwares interview show debuts here not to say it will be on air again in a couple of minutes. president elect put him a potent picture outgoing leader dimitri medvedev through play sims head of rush's ruling party but it has also given the final kremlin speech. its claim to n.g.o.s are trying to incite foreign intervention in syria the organizations are accused of publishing unconfirmed reports similar to those held provoke international military action in libya. so as promised is julian assange on

r t this time tonight he referees between two guests with very different ideologies coming up just fifteen seconds away. expose the world secrets these documents belong the united states government being attacked by the united states strongly condemned. illegally should pull five hundred days now being detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us . today on the quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. today i am joined by an intellectual superstar.

a former communist dissident now turned so described communist together we call david horowitz a former left wing radical black panther i now a fiery right wing's ionise i want to know what they think about the future of europe and the united states become versation becomes he did you get has to be physically restrained we shout rant thankful calmly about knotty and palestinians black panthers and israelis but out of barmah romney and stalin. david you describe yourself as a conservative and describe yourself as a communist but nonetheless both of you have had a picture of stalin. standing. measuring a don't mess. yeah

right king george washington international shop. i like go ahead david and you tell me what do you mean by conservative and why you have. well look at the picture of stalin it was on my office well with his death and i'm a conservative because he leftists utopians have no idea what human nature hears. and therefore when they get the power they are faced with a big problem which is that people don't go along with their program and so they kill them and put them in gulags and. the problem with the utopian idea is the idea. but for right starting but if the remind me and could maybe be at something marginal level even agree besides the

body mind me of the wreaths they interfere of what i do could probably write better and you know i don't know what to make of what's law is saying when he says that salad is there to remind him of the dangers of totalitarian it. other totalitarian strain on the left or the dangers of. that utopian ideas can lead to because he supports all a totalitarian movements in the world and i can see. you're a supporter of. the closest thing we have to nab season which was you know your utopian idea in the middle east you know you support the palestinians i don't see anything to distinguish the palestinians who want to kill the jews from the next season did you ever visit the west bank. it's going to face in order to do this we

didn't mean it right you were going to say that i knew that everything i do is framed i said and i can tell you what i. am not saying i must emphasize because i find it tasteless they say yes oh what nazis were going to threaten i would go into police guns i agree this is tasteless but saudi police think guns are out of their screwed up but yes i bought snow you know quite well if you know he's not going to saudi arabia i guess that's the way we go wait is that i let you know yet because you are fat and so on is that i need god to see open god this space for hamas to influence them. going to blame the jews for hamas oh my god you see this is what i don't like i have my god let him write a i praise the truth we do not know what i want to know how serious he just might be look at the situation of we mean now you are what you believe you sound

a smuggler and i'm going to goose responsible for this united states that is the party says that i think international left and the democratic party united states that went to war for saddam and against george bush when he went into iraq we should have settled their hands we should not have you know we should have i.q. tied them to something that david i mean this is a having a conversation with basement bush you know this is not going to syria and then we should have stuck into iran but bush came under such that hand. from the from the democrat there's never been such as us edition small bit quiet major american party they all supported the war not all of them but their leadership supported the war they voted in their majority in the senate for the war and then they turned against it and they lied saying that kush lie bush couldn't have lied. about the intelligence because kerry and that whack

a feller and feinstein all the democrats sat on the intelligence committees they had their intelligence then julian in in the work that we do and worth wiki leaks does we are. pushing forward the boundaries of a certain type of liberty it is we say protected by the first amendment that is the liberty to to reveal the truth about the world to protect a story to record me to ference and so on i saw this incredible poster that the u.s. army produced which is a poster of jefferson. say it was a big statue of jefferson saying the cost of liberty is a regions that is the price of liberty and it had a giant interception systems people with guns and the coast guard and people looking out over the sea with with spike losses they had interpreted jefferson's statement which was that to stop

a strong state we must be eternally vigilant into we must have a strong state an aggressive state a surveillance state in order we i think i think it's regrettable that the state is so big that then our defense has to be so big and i actually absolutely regrettable but it's a reality and you know what i'd like to go back to the thing about liberty and equality. of course if people are unequipped if people had an equal counts an equal intelligence. the only way to make them equal is to take away liberty that's the only way you can do it there's no other way so of course there's an inherent conflict between the liberty listen and i look at an idea at least here in contrast what you think i am not for. freedom everything should be made public but i think. i'm not doing these all i'm saying

when the way. the great power structure a certain level of sheep pocket is east. then selectively when simply has to put think of course we are all based call it cost the state power in the sense of saudi we have to do certain things the st louis back you don't know about pete and i agree we have to play this game i know the stupid thing but when obviously this cost east coast thinks like we can least i can play a very positive even though i don't see any they lose that also i lost my way if i disagree if the revolution that you rarely get we have a new revolutionary government yeah new revolutionary government and with you it's managed to get hold of yes and all this going got that government yeah and we were going to publish it i mean i'm sure you were a swinging what i would i would i be worried and you will me i cannot going to he's

going to tokyo you know about the difficult for me to answer this question now when i will be part of the seventy percent of the government i will send you my answer to your poor accepting savior yes. i think i might possibly. years it's going to be ordered liberty and can't be but everybody just thought of that in some sense on the front front of guantanamo bay the slogan is one of down to the bin freedom you know in iraq there is a prison camp camp we pretty. these to me seem to be abuses of the word freedom and i want to know from you do you really think this is a tremendous state that is growing up in the united states is that entirely necessary to combat the rival risk competition the united states has from china

from europe or or is this now a self-feeding system it's you know this is the people are the problem people are the problem they're greedy they lie to intercede they manipulate. you know their egocentric we understand that and people in government i just the same dangerous people with more power so that's why we have the checks and balances and i'm i'm all for you know morse group me and this and that however. we live in a context united states and israel under attack from the international left which is very powerful morley's dictators in south america that somebody seems to get along with. from the islamofascism. and we live in an age when they have nuclear weapons and chemical and biological i think there's going to be

a catastrophe that won't work for everything that happened in the twentieth century in the twenty first because it just burns you don't you see the the creation of an enormous secrecy of your ocracy during each other papers in colvin rotating door contracts like cetera but don't you see that perhaps can be similar to what occurred in the soviet union and we need a strong thirteen any if we eliminate competition but the fact that it look you've got a leftist in the white house and i was brought up and trained by communists who hold political career was in the communist left you have the competition you know and you can have what you think of this monolith and you know the secret that controls everything you have if you prefer to think of it as many mafias and they're all attentive throats and that's what keeps us somewhat safe. or ha but if you you know

first let me state come think without any anti americanism it's countries like russia like russia they haven't shut down the opposition i know asked against their own i know what you mean and i think isn't this the guy who when he made the bush said he meant better i looked into concise and i knew i can trust that guy but he's just that would know what i'm saying is that look a little stupid things that bush didn't say it and i thought it was a good yeah ok let me go so listen i'm unfortunately usually i didn't make much into least kommunist you know that communists like to blow. the through a position to them democracy you must know these companies like to call everyone who opposes them fascist if you did a modest democratic process comfortable using what i'm afraid is that you use the word communist in the slightly seamy lot of weight who ever is

a little bit of critical or american consumer to stop to spend he's a common extent of call you by name calling on these they're only not referring you're not referring to caracal garma yes in one meeting there's one same thing on google and use the gum lines and you have no idea of broccoli drama's background who he actually is if you say that because this is not just about my own well i don't care about saying you guys challenge background was but it needs a spoiler who points i thought some of them as we both know let me go briefly on but don't you think a good number less i think and dismissed as you sure you and if not this is a good thing but don't you think that nonetheless for me the great failure of praise you did for me was that we feast known i wouldn't use the word of i guess you from that sunidhi know i'm intelligent probably thinks that he he's good he's

out of he's the cake was that the united states effectively. com came close to losing the position of unified as the power under boost you united states lost effectively control over latin america and so on and so on and i think and this is not i don't say to some lefties gee who finally got the united states but i think we are entering even tempt we're going to do a very dangerous. weather all of these things that america is somehow the game controller for me over and again i'm not saying this to be any you know what i mean of the strangers yeah it's a dangerous world i agree let's roll you in a you're not as bad listen let's face it and for this many lefties to be let us be off your centrism or whatever european welfare state deem mark then.

if you put it meet me the east european la mar then i think even united states that he wasn't this may be the unique period in few months he sporty after all about the welfare state better so many people leave in such safety. free daum and so on don't make too much fun of who would get anything as far as he always was a disaster spirit europe europe is a cultural thing in part and in significant that's what happened that's what your welfare state it just took you are out of the pot i have had personally i have personal experience with a socialist green paradise of sweden and i can tell you it is nothing like you have a thai thing but the important thing to have the official speaking to them because something has broken down got the suite the swedes have no morals the david striving for the target the striving towards

a better position even if even if that position is liberty it is more liberty but is a striving a direction that people wish to have because they can measure and temper events by the direction of their hopes and ideals have we now abandoned that true religion because religion is their writing in the gap they just say to seize utopian vision that people can't live with a sense most people can't live with the sense that their lives are meaningless that they just you know born in die and are forgotten. so if you're a religious person then there's a divinity who's going to make sort it out in the afterlife there with them sion in the next life if you're not religious you want i would imagine in this life that's what the left is about it is a religious movement and it's not an accident that all things isn't these utopianism whether it's communism or fascism or dances oh to do better.

or what or liberalism. because for you it off people have to want to make things better because you may take a lot of big dishes and make a modest change so you know i'm trying to think of of one network with what you want to do when you want to do what you do is it is a radical means they can have very destructive consequences that are most manifest when you have to get you know when you can't keep them and calls always but when you put in time to keep that in court of course you don't say oh that's right to be friendly need that's not the guy dad grief modestly you have momentum i know that's the be i get asked if i don't we're here i can't really agree or disagree about all of that you talk b.s. not for me my position is some modest but i see as you see all of us do you are approaching a potential catastrophe and oh i'm saying we should fully consciously confront

this catastrophe no easy utopian think companies only need but i know marcus right let me try to tie up these stairs and you're just going to have a second that he's got a who at the end maybe that is your man he's come your nice he's a crook and he's here and i was going to say it was the natural war is the natural condition of mankind it's always been worst right from from the beginning ok and many of them she's occurs only when there's a concert of powers or a single power that can intimidate would be aggressors now i ask you who would you like that power to be other than the united states. i don't know but you know i think it's no longer even the candidates but me and united states get well that's right and that's why we're facing such catastrophe but you're contributing it by encouraging leftists isn't the way to keep the state accountable it's kind of

a free market in spades i think different political options different political games and then people who don't like the conditions in one think can move to another state they can do the business of making nuclear assets. united states it's time to quit as as we showed in iraq we can't we can't even occupy a country we can we can do here we conduct a four day war that was a six week run and we america is it's a country where people are so there's so much opportunity people are so busy having fun. i don't want to go to work americans don't want to go to work and i think america has to be lied into war no i actually was tony blair that that united states is crippled. in part because its commander in chief is a leftist here i expect for he said yes he can i could say speak of a set of facts and i won't go but of and sort of thing for you because of people

like obama who can succeed or days into obama's administration he authorized he's grown striking pakistan do you think about really is when he came into office and actually when he was running he knew that his weak point was that the military so he picked pakistan. he has killed more civilians and the left much and get away with it because they're left because the left is a religious force and it's nothing to do with principle the left doesn't care about . asians being you know killed by drones you know but what is he what does he want to do to the streets protesting what obama's putting in pakistan and afghanistan you know beyond you know what i don't have any respect for leftists anymore because i don't think their principles you see any difference yet both critical perhaps obama you are critical to watch i mean as

a social you're critical to want to vomit because you think he's a communist leftist i think if you could put a lot of obama because quite the contrary i think that he's not keep it close at the left because he's not he pretends to be a leftist he's not the president know what you're talking about slug right i mean look i mean i've listened to attack gallery i mean even when obama is doing but then just because they're a leftist you get this out of your own cliff let's be friends i've got a colleague not my friend i don't buy this democratic left you know could get us through democracy blah blah blah what i'm saying is that the problem we've gave ice to communities from the street here we've just. i'm a fake what happened was i don't find this for noticing the part yet the problems are going to be here for ever you know down problems and problems that we actually

get i just think you ok let's let's let's all listen to one to one that we changed we have a lot of ground money we have a lot of ground point we have a lot of ground zero we are happy and. i think that what this amazing guy gosh that's ok. we have a lot of ground to cover and i do want to go over ok so. david you were in the black panther and you stayed in the black panthers post well you know i was never a member i raised money for you help them you were you were involved in that activities and you supported them yes. you made those bankers people laugh now you face the mess that. you've already in a bookkeeper from then ramparts magazine. which you were editing. anybody pater and i just want to draw your attention through a letter that was sent to you. in my mind you were the person responsible

for baby step sending her into one of the panthers books at this particular time was tantamount to pressing you know klu klux klan white sheet and sending her out to talk to you this isn't this isn't a slam matches slanderous letter by a bitter guy well you know who actually was appalled at the campus before i was never seen anything. the left will defend the cost and will sacrifice any indeed it will in this case it was me. david do you think this this tragedy i mean you're involved you know you know murder i mean a murder was around you consider. something of great first an importance to me and it must have affected your your outlook on the world but i do think that you it is open your eyes to the reality or rather it colored your perception i was very

aware of that so baby was killed in our body was discovered in february one thousand seven hundred five. i didn't do anything political and after that for the next. nine years. i voted for reagan in one thousand nine hundred eighty four and that's when i agree were just as a conservative of course i came under tremendous attack from the left but i hadn't said anything. america was going to say i haven't said anything they hadn't done any political activity attacking the left in all those nine years because i was very aware that i was. you know i felt i had been betrayed by the movement i felt guilty. when i had supported.

so i waited till i was relatively cool i mean you know it's in your character. if you're passionate and i take david is that you started writing our groceries after a video on p.b.s. or into rockefeller's now the big american right i mean when you started writing all those biographies did you interview members of those welcoming family yes you nuveen to a new sofa or book as a result of your bargain or. oh no. i really had we made pretty much the same all my life i didn't want any more war vets i mean i did i did i accident i lost every friend i ever had was as a leftist and that was it life. so maybe we constituted might make friendships i think that's a big factor that keeps people in the lessons that they know that if they cross the line they're going to lose it well their friends.

anyway yeah just just. ok ok all right sorry but no problem i forgot he simply human faced but you will be allowed to do he's. got you know that's going to be put down and activism are what you do it well i have to go to universities with bodyguards because of the fascist left in this country i have assassination threats all over ninety only guy in the south that was physically assaulted by i think just to be a communist by congolese ok i'm not for it at least so am i come on he didn't like you he will you be voting for in the upcoming election. well we don't have a candidate yet well i mean amongst the pack amongst the candidates oh i think romney

has the best chance. to beat to beat yeah i'm not i'm not happy with anybody i agree here we feel it's very tragic and really maybe even bad can belong to sort of the right that if you have a neck that states that republican you kooks stimulate at least simply wasn't able to produce a candidate which would have enough growing force and it's very sad i mean i don't i'm not happy about i'm angry and stupid thank you david horowitz. visiting he's a. leader no one is going to call on you nice he's a true solution to this human face trial because. i think he said something to the field on things that i know most proud of is not good for all growing up. ok thank you that's right you're right. ok but you know you have to go a little bit to spell you can spend this much better get out of what really.

plays b.h.p. put you on the plane and unions to play with you not fly you out or something you know so i think it's bank race dissipates. that's.