hello it's kevin i was here with the headlines from moscow tonight the mainstream media lash out at their former favorite whistleblower cheerleaders saundra resorting to personal insults after his interview show baby and here on our team. president elect but in a putin picks outgoing needed to be true preventive for a place and listen head of russia's ruling party and admit it was also given the final kremlin speech. and its claim that n.g.o.s are trying to inside foreign intervention in syria organizations are accused of publishing unconfirmed reports similar to those which held provoke international military action in libya. now as promised to julian assange here on r.t.

this tommy referees' between two guests with very different ideologies and just a few moments time. expose the world secrets. of the united states government being attacked by the united states strongly condemn they. illegally should pull five hundred days you might be detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us. today we're on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. today i am joined by intellectual superstar. so i've always you're

a former anti communist dissident now turned so described communists together we call david horowitz a former left wing radical black panther life now a fiery right wing zionist i want to know what they think about the future of europe and the united states the conversation becomes heated you get asked to be physically restrained we shout rant and talk calmly about nothing and palestinians black panthers and israelis about of karma romney and stalin. david you describe yourself as a conservative and you describe yourself as a communist but nonetheless both of you have had a picture of stalin. going to make free money don't mess. up the many many shots.

yeah right. she's an international shark tank. all right david can you tell me what do you mean by conservative and why i have a picture of stardoll. well look at the picture of stalin that was on my office well with his death and i'm a conservative because the leftists utopians had no idea what human nature hears. and therefore when they get the power they're faced with a big problem which is that people don't go along with their program and so they kill them and put them in google docs and. the problem with the utopian idea is the idea. but first white starting precisely to remind me and could maybe be something marginal level even

a good place that he would remind me of the wreaths they moved out of of but i did because it started and you know i don't know what to make of what's libel you're saying when he says that stallin is there to remind him of the dangers of totalitarian it i'm but totalitarian strain in the left there are dangers of. that utopian ideas can lead to because he supports well a totalitarian movements in the world and i can see. you're a supporter of. the closest thing we have to nap season which was you know utopian idea in the middle east you know you support the palestinians i don't see anything to distinguish the palestinians who want to kill the jews from that season did you ever visit the west bank it's not going to face the border with israel and i didn't

i didn't want the time to think that i knew that to make my dearest friends he said and i can tell you what i did. i not think i might ever face if i find it tasted a sniff oh what nazi for doing good for the truth from now doing well but if he and i. this is state's list but saudi police think out of their screwed up yes they're screwed i've no you know who might be you know here going to saudi arabia i guess that's the way we go wait is that i should know yeah i guess you know i thought and so on he said i don't see okan bob this paid for hamas influenced them second going to blame the jews for my oh my god you see this is what i don't like i oh my god i don't care i say i've played the truth and you know what they are you never know when i want to know how serious you just might be look at the situation of we mean now yok couldn't believe the sound of

a sudden i'm gonna lose responsible for this united states that is the point isn't going to change things in this no left of the democratic party united states that went to war for saddam and against george bush when he went into iraq we should have settled their hand we should not have you know we should have occupied them for something to save this is me and having a program which i should've stuck into syria and then we should have stuck it to iran but bush came under such of hand. from the from the democrat there's never been such as seditious movement by a major american party they all supported the war not all of them but their leadership supported the war they voted in their majority of the senate for the war and then they turned against it and they lied saying that bush lied bush couldn't have lied about the intelligence because kerry and rockefeller and feinstein all

the democrats sat on the intelligence committees they had their intelligence then julian in in the work that we do the work that wiki leaks does we are. pushing forward the boundaries of a certain type of liberty it is we say protected by the first amendment that is the liberty to to reveal the truth about the world or take a story to record means appearance and so on. but i saw this incredible poster that the u.s. army produced which is a poster of jefferson say it was a big statue of jefferson saying the cost of liberty is a turn obedience that is the price of liberty and it had a giant interception systems people with guns and coast guard and people looking out over the sea with spike losses they had interpreted jefferson's statement which was that to stop a strong state we must be eternally vigilant into we must have

a strong state an aggressive state a surveillance state in order we i think i think it's regrettable that the state is so big. that our defense has to be so big i channel will be regrettable but it's a reality it and you know what i'd like to go back to your thing about liberty and equality. of course if people are on equal if people had an equal talents and equal intelligence then the only way to make them equal is to take away liberty it's the only way you can do it there's no other way so of course there's an inherent conflict between the liberty look an idea at least here in congress what you think i am not far from everything should be made public but i think. i'm not doing these all i'm saying when the way.

but great power structure a certain level of she pocky she east and then selected went house to put it that of course we have our own base called to cast. the state power in the sense of saudi respect. discretely better know about and i have be we have to play this game i know but when obviously this fast paced. thinks like we can least can play a very positive even though i don't see any then that also laughs i know if i disagree if the revolution i'm going to be ready to go because we have a new revolutionary government yeah new revolutionary government and wiki leaks manage to get hold of that yes when all this going got that government yeah and we were going to publish it i mean i said we'd waste wasn't what i would i be what we

got do you want me i cannot get if you spend so here you know what it will be thinking for me to answer this question now when i will be part of a piece of a new city government i will send you my own sort of poor luck selling same if you go. by possibly ideas it's going to be ordered liberty and can't be what anybody just thought of that in some sense a video on the front front of guantanamo bay the slogan there is on a pound to defend freedom you know in iraq there is a prison camp camp we pretty these to me seem to be abuses of the word freedom and i want to know from you do you really think this is a tremendous state that is growing up in the united states is that entirely necessary to come back to the rival risk competition the united states has from

trying to from europe or or is this now a cell feeding system it's you know this isn't just people who are the problem people are the problem they're greedy they lie to seed they manipulate. you know their egocentric. we understand that and people in government i just the same change rist people with no power so that's why we have the checks and balances and i'm i'm a lot for you know more scrutiny and this and that however we live in a context the united states israel under attack from the international left which is very powerful but marley's dictators in south america that some ways things to get along with. from the islamofascism. and we live in an age when they had nuclear weapons and chemical and biological i think there's going to be i cast

a few that will get worse everything that happened in the twentieth century in the twenty first because of this don't you thank you see the creation of an enormous secretive bureaucracy doing it for other papers involved in rotating door contracts etc don't you see that that perhaps can be similar to what occurred in the soviet union and we need a strong thirteen any if we eliminate competition but the facts are that look you've got a leftist in the right house a guy who was brought up and trained by communists whose whole political career was in the communist left you have the competition you know you think you can have what you think of this monolith and you know the secret that controls everything you have if you prefer to think of it as many mafias and they're all at each other's throats and that's what keeps us somewhat safe. well jay but if you you know first let me state something without any anti american economy it's

countries like like russia. shut down the opposition i know and us against their own and i know what you mean and i think isn't this the guy whom when he made was bush said you remember i looked into concise and i knew i can trust that guy but this is just that it would know what i'm saying is that look look stupid things that bush sent so yes i mean i thought it was ok yes ok let me go so listen i'm unfortunately you know you listen to a question you hear me kommunist you know that the communists like to blow. the through a position to them democracy you must know he's going to like to call everyone who opposes them fastens if you did a modest democrat think the skunk that evolution with i'm afraid is that you used the communists in a slightly similar way who advocate

a little bit of critical automatic and conservative establishment he's a common he's been a failure by name calling and he's their only not referring you not referring to caracal garma yes he did well meaning the one standing on the island and he was the long lines here and you have no idea of brocklebank his background who he actually is if you say that because this is not just about my own well i don't get it i was a guy's challenge background was really just poet who would point that some of them don't know let me go briefly on but don't you think that nonetheless i think and dismissed and you know your doing it a good if not this is a good thing but don't you think that numberless for me the great satan get a boost but i actually did see was that we feast no one i wouldn't use the word of i guess she's from ted sunidhi not intelligent well you keep that he he that he's

out of he's the cape was that the united states effectively. came close to losing the position of universal power under boost you united states lost effectively control over latin america and so on and so on and i think and this is not i don't say with some lefties gee who finally got united states but i think we are entering a when people are going to be due a very dangerous. weather all these dreams but america is somehow the game controller for me over and again i'm not saying this to be any you know what i mean of this let me change yang he said dangerous what did i give you this rule you know i know it is your bad listen let's face it and this man you lefties to be like use me of your centrism or whatever european welfare state mark then.

if you permit me to east european lot more than i think even united states getting wasn't this may be the unique here you're in few months sporty after all going to make the welfare state better so many people need in fact safety. freedom and so on done for me too much fun or threw up again i think it's fine i think the last always was a disastrous spirit europe europe is a cultural theme park it's significant that's what happened that's what your welfare state it just took us out of the plight i have had personally i personally experience with a socialist dream paradise of sweden and i can tell you it is nothing like you have a tithing but it wasn't going to have the effect of stealing ceased and it's something has broken down the sweetness leads have no morals david striving towards your target the striving towards

a better position even if even if that position is liberty it is more liberty that is the striving and direction that people wish to have because they can measure and temper events by the direction of the hooks and ideals have we now abandoned that religion because religion is their writing in the gap and just see the seas utopian vision as people can't live with the sense most people can't live with the sense that their lives are meaningless that they just you know born and die and are forgotten. so if you're a religious person then there's a definity who's going to make sorted out in the afterlife their redemption in the next life if you're not religious you want a redemption in this life that's what the left is about it is a religious movement and it's not an accident that all things is utopianism whether it's communism or fascism or an axis motivated better. or what over

liberalism. it was so you would talk people have to want to make things better i see you may take a lot of bishops and make a modest change so you know i'm trying to think of one that would fit what you want to do with you want to do what you do is it is a radical means they can have very destructive consequences that are both mannesmann you have to get you when you can't keep them in court it's always but when you can for example keep living color because you don't say oh it's right to be friendly but not to guy gangrene from obviously you have put momentum i know you have to be i guess if i hope we're here i hope we agree at least ev-l. toward that you papias that for me my point he's in the summer of this month i see is the oldest book that really had a protein but then for us to feasts and all i'm saying we should fully consciously confront this catastrophe no easy utopian think of anything only

a need that i ok so i let me try to tie up these this notice you are just not a secular that is not a whitby and maybe it is your man he's come your nice he's a communist you know what i was going to say i think war is the natural war is the natural condition of mankind has always been war it's right stemmed from the beginning ok and many of the peace occurs only when there's a concert of powers or a single power that can intimidate would be aggressors now i ask you who would you like that power to be other than the united states. i don't know but you know i think it's no longer even the candidates for me and united states get well that's right that's why we're facing such catastrophe but you're contributing it by encouraging leftists isn't the way to keep the state accountable it's kind of a free market and thanks i think different political options different political

gate and then people who don't like the conditions and once they can move to another state they can be good businesses they can leave their assets they can do that only united states is not equipped and as as we showed in iraq we can't we can't even occupy a country we can we can barely conduct a four day war that was a six week one and what. america is it's a country where people are so there's so much opportunity people are so busy having fun. i don't want to go to war americans don't want to go to work as i think of america has to be lied into war no actually it was tony blair that that united states is crippled. important because its commander in chief is a leftist here i expect for he said he'd write in c.s. he's going that it's tasty for the scent of a texan and so i want to go but i sort of informed you this because of people like

obama who can succeed or days into obama's administration he authorized these very striking pakistan who do you think about really is when he came into office and actually when he was running he knew that his weak flank was that was the military so he picked pakistan. he has killed more civilians and the left much and get away with it because they left because the left is a religious force and nothing to do with principle the left doesn't care about. asians being you know killed by drones you know the what does he want what does he want to do in the streets protesting what obama's schooling in pakistan and afghanistan you know. you know i don't have any respect for leftists anymore because i don't think their principles you see any difference we have both because we want somebody who are critical to our campaign is

a social good could because they want to vomit because you think he's a communist leftist i'm critical of obama because quite one because i think that he's not he could close at the left and he's not he pretends to be a leftist he's not that's the point i know what you're talking about slug white i mean look i mean i've listened to attack yelling i mean even when obama is doing but then just because they're a leftist he's out of your own class leftist friends i thought ecologies not my friend i don't buy these democratic left off you know good guys through democracy blah blah blah but what i'm saying is that the problem before gave and i spoke of the some street here with us. i'm afraid what happened was i don't find this i know it isn't the point yet the problems are going to be here for ever you know there are problems and problems next week that's again i just think you ok let's let's

let's talk english first one to one that we say danger we have a lot of ground body we have a lot of ground point we have a lot of ground zero we are fanatics and. i think there will be maybe. that's ok because. we have a lot of ground to cover and i do want to go over it ok so. david you were in the black panther and you stayed in the black panthers post well you know i was never a member i raised money for you help them you were you were involved in activities and you supported them yes. you had made those bankers who had people have no use for you. and you already in a bookkeeper from then ramparts magazine with. which you were editing. but even later and i just want to draw your attention so a letter that was sent to you. in my mind you were the person responsible

for baby step sending her to order the panthers books at this particular time was tantamount to pressing her in a clue klux klan white sheet and sending her up to talk to you this isn't this isn't fair and we had just slanderous letter by a bitter guy. you know who actually was a ball with before i was it never said anything. the left will defend the cost and will sacrifice and he ended it will in this case it was me. david do you think this this tragedy i mean you're an old you know you know murder i mean a murder murder was around you this is. something of great personally importance to me and it must have affected your your outlook on the world but i do think that you this open your eyes to the reality or rather it colored your perception i i was

very aware of that so many was killed in our body was discovered in february nine hundred seventy five. i didn't do anything politically after that for the next. nine years. i voted for reagan in one nine hundred eighty four and that's when i a bird as a conservative of course i came under tremendous attack from the left but i hadn't said anything. when i was going to say and said anything negative hadn't been any political activity attacking the left in all those nine years because i was very aware that there i i was. you know i felt i had been betrayed by the movement i felt guilty. when i supported. so i waited till i was relatively cool i mean you know it's in your character to.

if you're passionate or not but they david is that you started writing biographies after him but he don't pay us for our interview rockefeller's now the big american family right i mean when you started writing all those biographies they do you interview members of both welcoming family yes you moved into a new sort of orbit as a result of your partner and i now know. i really had remained pretty much the same all my life i didn't want any more bits i mean i did i did i had to and i lost every friend that i ever had was as a leftist and that was at mid-life. so we constituted my friendships i think that's a big factor that keeps people in the lettuce that they know anything crossing the line they're going to lose it well their friends.

anyway yeah just just. ok ok all right sorry about that no problem i am for a problem he's been weak human face but you will be allowed to do he's. got you know because it isn't that's going to be put down activism or what you do you know i have to go to universities with paddy carts because of the fascist left in this country i had assassination threats a lot of i'm the only guy in the south that was physically assault that but i think i have to be a communist by can you be somebody i'm going out for at least so i might come i'm not kidding i can tell you he will you be voting for in the upcoming election. well we don't have a candidate yet i mean amongst the cat amongst the candidates i think romney is the best chance to be stacked to beat the big obama yeah i'm happy i'm not happy with

anybody i have to be it's very tragic. maybe even back in the long run i'm going to be right back if you have a nice day and it probably can. stimulate peace simply a bit. i can be date which would have enough growing fast and it's very sad i mean i don't look happy about it i agree that stupid thank you david horowitz. visiting he's not going to want to come you nice he's a. human face because. he said. you know waste out of his like growing up. ok thank you. ok ok but you know you have to do a little bit of sadness about this madness but i go it.

plays b.h.a. put you on the plane and unions for saving not fly you out of something you know so i think you can raise the stakes. today violence is once again flared up. these are the images kobolds from the streets of canada that. chunk of operations are all over the.