so it could be a lot of show a half hour. time jewel in a song. it's true of wiki leaks expose the world secrets these documents belong the united states government being attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemned they would ask you why you broke the law illegally shoot some of the five hundred days now i've been detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us. today we are on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow or the day i am joined by intellectual superstar this will be an aeon flux for playboy your former anticommunist now turned so described communists together we call david horowitz a former left wing radical black panther life now

a fiery right wing scientist i want to know what they think about the future of europe and the united states the conversation becomes heated you get has to be physically restrained we shout rant and talk calmly about nazis and palestinians black panthers and israelis about a bomb or romney and thought. david you describe yourself as a conservative. describe yourself as a communist but nonetheless both of you have had a pitcher of stalin. style is going to come from a free money don't mess. about it. you know right i can't talk to you that's an international shop can't. i write go ahead david and you tell me what you mean by conservative and why you

have a picture of stalin well look at the picture of stalin that was on my office well with his death and i'm a conservative because he leftists utopians have no idea how right human nature he is. and therefore when they get the power they are faced with a big problem which is that people don't go along with their program and so they kill them up and put them in gulags and. the problem with the utopian idea is the idea for it but it felt right rallying precisely to remind me and give maybe something marginal level even bigger piece that he reminds me of the wreaths they drive off and i do believe you can experiment you know i don't know what to make of what sluggo is saying when he says

that's now it is there to remind him of the dangers of totalitarian it i'm the totalitarian strain on the left there are dangers of. that utopian ideas can lead to because he supports all a totalitarian movements in the world that i can see. you're a supporter of. the closest thing we have to nap season which was you know utopian idea in the middle east you know you support the palestinians i don't see anything to distinguish and palestinians and want to kill the jews from the net seethen did you ever visit the west bank. if you don't can he say similar to the street he doesn't i don't want to know what i'm saying is that i knew that he can make you a friend he said and i can tell you what i. am not saying i must emphasize i find it tasteless they speak yes or what not. to speak truth and i

would be willing to palestinians i agree this is states this but saudi police team guns out of their screwed up yes they're screwed by hamas no you know well you know he's a guy saudi arabia i guess that's the way we go way is that i was not going to get your ass back and so on he's right on see open the space for hamas influence their second going to blame the jews for a minus three oh my god you see this is what i don't like oh i oh my god i've never had a i've played it's authentic you know you never know i don't know what i want to know how seriously just from the look at the situation of we mean now you are quoted but if you sound a sudden i'm going to lose responsible for this united states that is the point is that vengeance in this the left in the democratic party united states that went to

war for saddam and against george bush when he went into iraq we should have settled their hands we should not have you know we should have i.q. by them for something to save this is a having a program which i should have stuck into syria and then we should have stuck into iran but bush came under such at hand. from the from the democrat there's never been such as seditious movement by and major american parties they all supported the war not all of them but their leadership supported the war they voted in their majority in the senate but the war and then they turned against it and they lied saying that bush lied bush couldn't have lied to. about the intelligence because kerry and that whack a feller and feinstein all the democrats stand on the intelligence committees they had their intelligence then julian in in the work that we do the work that wiki leaks does we are. pushing forward the boundaries of

a certain type of liberty it is we say protected by the first amendment that is the liberty to to reveal the truth about the world or take a story or record from interference and so on but i saw this incredible poster that the u.s. army produced which is a poster of jefferson. say it was a big statue of jefferson saying the cost of liberty is a turnip regions that is the price of liberty and it had a giant thing to separate and systems people with guns and the coast guard and people looking out over the sea with with spike losses they had interpreted jefferson's statement which was that to stop a strong state we must be eternally vigilant into we must have a strong state an aggressive state a surveillance state in order we actually i think it's regrettable that the state

is so big. in our defense has to be so big and i actually we're going to go but it's a reality and you know what i'd like to go back to the thing about liberty and equality. of course if people are unequipped if people had an equal counts an equal intelligence. then the only way to make them equal is to take away liberty that's the only way you can do it there's no other way so of course there's an inherent conflict between the liberty listening to quite look at i.d.'s get income tax what you think i am not for. freedom everything should be made public but i think. i'm not doing d.c. all i'm saying when the way. but great power has struck such a subtle level of she talking he says at least then selectively when simply

how supportive of course we are all based callers who passed the state power in the sense of sorry we have to do something discreetly better paid you don't know about pete and i agree we have to play this game i'm not this stupid but when obviously this thought i asked east meets us thinks like we can least i can play a very positive even though i don't see any they lose that also lost imo if i disagree if the revolution i'm going to be ready to go if we have a new revolutionary government yeah and you revolutionary government and wiki leaks manage to get hold of all this how you got that government yeah and we were going to publish it i mean i said we waste wasn't what i would i would i do it would be a good deal with me i can look at it he spent joke yet you know what it's too difficult for me to answer this question now when i will be part of the biggest evolution of the government i will send you my own separate your poor luck selling

say good. bye possibly. years it's kind of be ordered liberty it can't be but everybody just thought of that in some sense a video on the front front of one time or the slogan is on a pound to defend freedom you know in iraq there is a prison camp camp liberty. these to me seem to be abuses of the word freedom and i want to know from you do you really think this tremendous state that is growing up in the united states is that entirely necessary to combat the rival risk competition the united states has from china from europe or or is this now a cell feeding system you know there's the people are the problem people are the problem they're greedy they lie to see people they manipulate up they you know

they're egocentric we understand that and people in government i just the same keynes rist people with more power so that's why we have the checks and balances and i'm i'm all for you know horse rooney and this and that however. we live in a context the united states and israel under attack from the international left which is very powerful morley's dictators in south america that subway's things to get along with. from the islamofascism. and we live in an age when they had nuclear weapons and chemical and biological i didn't there's going to be and i cast a fee that will dwarf everything that happened in the twentieth century in the twenty first because of this thirty's don't you see the the creation of an enormous secretive bureaucracy doing each other favors involved in rotating door contracts

like that don't you see that that perhaps can be similar to what occurred in the soviet union and we need a strong thirty and any if we eliminate competition but the fact of it look you've got a leftist in the white house a guy who was brought up and trained by communists whose whole political career within the communist left you have competition you know you think you can have what you think of this monolith and you know the secret that controls everything you have if you prefer to think of it as many mafias and they're all at each other's throats and that's what keeps us somewhat safe. ok but if you you know first let me state something without any american it's not some of it's countries like. russia you know they shut down the opposition i know actually gained some of their own i know you mean and i think this is the guy who when he made that was

bush said you know he meant but i looked into putin's eyes and i knew i can trust that guy but this is just that with no one can say is that look a little stupid things that bush didn't say it and i thought it i thought it was yeah yeah ok let me go so listen i'm unfortunately usually i was a person who you least kommunist you know that communists like to blur. the through a position to them democracy you must know these congress likes to call everyone who opposes them fascist if you did a modest democrat think both parties counter-revolution with i'm afraid that you used to go to communists in a slightly seemly lot of way whatever little bit of critical no man can consume i think establishment he's a common these kind of only have been made to call the police they are only not referring you not referring to barack obama yes he won't meaning to send them home

and use the lines here then you have no idea of barack obama's background who he actually is if you say that this is not just about my own well i don't care i'm not saying you guys challenge background was really just poet who points i thought some of them as people with no let me go briefly on but don't you think that nonetheless i think in deceased and you just use your you in an oblique sort of it's not a good thing but don't you think that numberless for me the great failure of bush president c. was that we feast no one i wouldn't use the word of i guess she's from ted sunidhi known intelligent politics that he he's very valuable for he's the cake was that the united states effectively. com came close to losing the position of universal power under boost you united states lost

effectively control overlapping america and so on and so on and i think and this is not i don't say with some lefties gee finally we got united states but i think we are entering even temper it could be due to a very dangerous. weather all of these dreams that america has somehow regained control over for me over and again i'm not saying any you know what i mean of these things yankees are dangerous when i give you the answer oh you know you look i know it is your bad listen let's face it and for this many lefties to be accusing me of your centrism or whatever european welfare state been marred then. if you permit me to east european lab mark then i think even united states getting wasn't this may be the unique period in few month he story after world gone who

would the welfare state better so many people live in such safety. free dawn and so on don't make too much fun of the world if they think it's fast enough for it was a disastrous spirit europe europe is a cultural thing in part it's in significant that's what happened that's what your welfare state it just took you are out of the pot i have had personally i personally experience with a socialist dream paradise of sweden and i can tell you it is nothing like you have a party but it wasn't going to have the effect of stealing from the it's something that's broken there you have the sweetness weeds have no morals david striving towards your target the striving towards a better position even if even if that position is liberty it is more liberty but is a striving a direction that people wish to have because they can measure contemporary events by the direction of their hopes and ideals have we now abandoned that true

religion because religion is their writing in the gap they just say it's easy to indigenous people can't live with dissent most people can't live with the sense that their lives are meaningless that they just you know born and die and are forgotten. so if you're a religious person then there's a dependency who's going to make sorted out in the afterlife you know redemption in the next life if you're not religious you want a redemption in this life that's what the left is about it is a religious movement and it's not an accident that all things isn't utopianism splinter it's communism or fascism or dances or do you but i am. what liberalism. because for you it thought you know people have to want to make things better because you may take a lot of bishops and make a modest change so you know i'm trying to think of one that would fit what you want

to do when you want to do what you do is it is a radical means they can have very destructive consequences that out of most mannesmann you have to give up when you can't keep living costs always but when you can for example keep living color because you don't say oh that's right be friendly be did not see god damn good for modestly look at momentum i know that's to be aggressive i hope we're here i hope we agree at least and all of that you talk yes that for me mike when he's in the summer months i see is the oldest do you have a protein but then for us or for us and all i'm saying peace we should fully consciously confront these catastrophes no easy utopian think called anything only need but i know more so i let me try to tie up these this notice you were just let us say that is not he who at the end made that is your man. come you nice he's

a communist you know what i was going to say that war is the natural war is the natural condition of mankind has always been worst right somebody from the beginning ok and many of them peace occurs only when there's a concert of powers or a single power that can intimidate would be aggressors now i ask you who would you like that power to be other than the united states. i don't know but you know i think it's no longer even the candidates but me and united states get well that's right that's why we're facing such catastrophe but you're contributing it by encouraging leftists isn't the way to keep the state accountable is to have a free market in states i mean different political options if it were to go ok and then people who don't like the conditions and once they can move to another state they can move their businesses they can move their assets they can move that only united states is not equipped and as as we showed in iraq we can't we can't even

occupy a country we can we can barely conduct a four day war that was a six week what. america is it's a country where people are so there's so much opportunity people are so busy having fun. they don't want to go to work americans don't want to go to work because i think america has to be lied into war no actually it was tony blair that the united states is crippled. important because its commander in chief is a leftist here i respectfully disagree right here yes it's good that it's tasty from a set of attacks and so on to go but if i sort of conform you because of people like obama who can succeed or days into obama's administration he or she writes these drone strikes in pakistan who do you think about really is what when he came

into office and actually when he was running he knew that his weak flank was the military so he picked pakistan and. he has killed more civilians and the left much and get away with it because they're left because the left is a religious force it has nothing to do with principle the left doesn't care about. asians being you know killed by drones you know but what does he want what does he want to do on the streets protesting what obama's schooling in pakistan and afghanistan you know. you know i don't have any respect for leftists anymore because i don't think their principles for you see. the footage we have both critical part of some drama you are critical to watch i mean it's a social you're good because you want to vomit because you think he's a communist leftist i think if you could walk obama because quite when the con party i think that he's not the secret goes that the left and he's not he

pretends to be a leftist he's not that's a pretty don't know what you're talking about slug right i'm going to not lose another tack alley i mean even when obama is doing but then just because they're a leftist he's out of your own cliff let's be friends i thought a folly is not my friend i don't buy this democratic left you know no good guys through democracy blah blah blah what i'm saying is that the problem beef gave ice to communism you speak here we just. i'm afraid what happens i don't find this i know it isn't the problem the problems i'm going to be here for ever you know down problems and problems actually that's again i just think you ok let's let's let's all listen to one gentleman that we changed we have a lot of ground money we have a lot of ground point we have a lot of ground zero we have. and but i think that what this amazing.

gosh that's ok. we have a lot of ground to cover and i do want to go over it ok so. they have it you were in the black panther and you stayed in the black panthers post well you know i was never a member i raised money for you help them you were you were involved in activities and you supported them yes. you would need those bankers to help people have no use for you. and your board in a bookkeeper from then ramparts magazine. which you were editing. but even plato and i just want to draw your attention to a letter that was sent to you. in my mind you were the person responsible for baby step sending her in support of the panthers books at this particular time was tantamount to addressing her in

a clue klux klan white sheet and sending her on to talk you know this isn't this isn't. just slanderous letter by a bitter guy. you know who actually was appalled with the clintons before i was it never said. the left will defend the cost and will sacrifice and he ended it well in this case it was me. to david do you think this this tragedy i mean you're involved you know you know murder i mean a murder was around you this is. something of great firstly importance to him and it must have affected your your outlook on the world but i do think that you this open your eyes to the reality or rather. howlett your perception i was very aware so many was killed in our body was discovered in february nine hundred seventy five. i mean i didn't do anything politically after that

for the next. nine years. i voted for reagan in one thousand nine hundred eighty four and that's when i say conservatives of course i came under tremendous attack from the left but i hadn't said anything i. was going to say and said anything negative hadn't been any political activity attacking the left in all those nine years because i was very aware that that i i was. you know i felt i had been betrayed by the movement i felt guilty. when i supported. so i waited till i was relatively poor you know it's in your character to. if you're passionate are not going to pay david is that you started writing biographies article and you don't pay. into rockefeller's now the big american

family right i mean when you started writing all those biographies and you interviewed members of those working families yes you moved into a new sort of orbit as a result of your gardener. no no no. i really had we made pretty much the same all my life i didn't want any more bits i mean i did i did i had to i lost every friend that i ever had as as a leftist and that was a mid-life. so later we constituted might make friendships i think that's a big factor that keeps people in the lessons that they know that if they cross the line you're going to lose their well their friends. anyway yeah just.

ok ok all right sorry about that no problem i'm for but he's been weak human face but you will be allowed to do he's. got you know it is you know that's going to be put down and activism or what you do at all i have to go to universities and party guards because of the fascist left in this country i have assassination threats all over i'm the only guy in the cell but i was physically i thought that by i think i would be a communist and by can you disappear again for not for the least so i might come out and not do you think like you who will you be voting for in the upcoming election. well we don't have a candidate yet well i mean amongst the pack amongst the candidates oh i think romney has the best chance to beat this guy to beat the big obama yeah i'm not i'm not happy with anybody. here we you know it's very tragic and really maybe even bad think a long time for to be right that if you have not had states that it probably can be

it looks to me like these simply wasn't able to produce a candidate which would have enough growing force and story it's very sad i mean i don't i'm not happy about i'm angry stupid but thank you. but isn't he. leader was going to come you nice he's a. human face like this is the worst part of think he said something to the cuban places the noblest part of his mind raul castro more than him. ok thank you very much you're. right. if you know this but you know you have good to be tough challenge but the sort of madness but go eat. sleep.

play be a staple you on the plane unions from t.v. looks like you are something to make you know so i think explain this space. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so for life you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry welcome to the big picture. if. me is easy easy easy easy. if. you come.

into the. system.