we know to every cat now of our top stories the surge of anti islam sentiment in the u.k. inspired by norway's mass killer anders breivik he's to fear similar attacks could take place in britain. pressure crackdowns on pro-democracy demonstrators in bahrain and back of condemnation from western governments questions over the selective approach to the arab spring revolts. and kofi annan warns of ballance in syria continuing despite the cease fire stressing an urgent need for the expansion of human observer mission that. money's in just about thirty minutes time but now the second edition of june the sun's his exclusive new show here and i take

today he plays umpire to two guests with very different viewpoints. it is true of wiki leaks where they expose the world secrets these documents belong the united states government been attacked by the united states strongly condemn. illegally shoot for five hundred days now being detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us. today we're on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. today i am joined by into a cool superstar the slovenian philosopher. a former anti communist dissident

now turned so described communist together we call david horowitz a former left wing radical black panther ally now a fiery right wing zionist i want to know what they think about the future of europe and the united states the conversation becomes heated has to be physically restrained we shout rant and talk calmly about nothing and palestinians black panthers and israelis about a bomb or romney and stalin. david you describe yourself as a conservative and you describe yourself as a communist but nonetheless both of you have had a picture of stalin. spasms god is going to maybe i made it on meth i may have. shot him in a minute and shout about it out yeah right. can't talk to

an international shop. all right go ahead david can you tell me what do you mean by conservative and why you have a picture of stalin well look at the picture of stalin that was on my office wall with his death and i'm a conservative because the leftists utopians have no idea what human nature is. and therefore when they get the power they are faced with a big problem which is that people don't go along with their program and so they kill them and put them in gulags. and. the problem with the utopian idea is the idea. of a fenced white starling but he size me to remind me and kid maybe something marginal level even

a geek based i think body mind me of this and he thinks they know genesis of what i do completely cut spending and you know me i don't know what to make of what's law is saying when he says that salad is there to remind him of the dangers of totalitarian it of the totalitarian strain on the left or the dangers of. that utopian ideas can lead to because he supports all a totalitarian movements in the world that i can see. you're a supporter of. the closest thing we have to nap season which was a utopian idea in the middle east you know you support the palestinians i don't see anything to distinguish the palestinians who want to kill the jews from the net seethen did you ever visit the west bank. it's the same sort of who is reading that right now we're going to st he said i know that everything i do is friend i

said and i can tell you what i. am not saying i must emphasize these i find it face to face these oh but not the threat of going to see the truth and i would doing to palestinians this is state's place but saudi police are out of there screwed up yes they're screwed by hamas no no groom i don't know him he's not going to saudi arabia i guess that's the way we go way is that i was not going to ask you not to fight and so on is that i need only see opened up the space for hamas to influence them second going to blame the jews for a mosque great oh my god you see this is what i don't like oh oh my god i don't ever say i blame the truth i'm a good actor you know i don't know what i want to know how serious he just might be look at the situation of we mean now that iraq could believe in the sound of a sudden i'm going to lose responsible for this united states that is the point is

that vengeance in the national left in the democratic party united states that went to war for saddam and against george bush when he went into iraq we should have settled their hands we should not have you know we should have occupied them for things that david i mean this is am not going to run the credit which i should have this is not going to syria and that we should have stuck into iran but bush came under such a talent. from the from the democrat there's never been such as seditious movement by a major american party they all supported the war not all of them but the leadership supported the war they voted in their majority in the senate but the or and then they turned against it and they lied saying that bush lied bush couldn't have lied to. about the intelligence because kerry and rockefeller and feinstein all the

democrats sat on the intelligence committees they had their intelligence then julian in in the work that we do the work that wiki leaks does we are. pushing forward the boundaries of a certain type of liberty that is we say protected by the first amendment that is the liberty to to reveal the truth about the world to protect the story to record for me to ference and so on i saw this incredible poster that the u.s. army produced which is a poster of jefferson say it was a big statue of jefferson saying the cost of liberty is a turn of vigilance that is the price of liberty and it had. giant interception systems people with guns and cars god and people looking out over the sea with with spike losses they had interpreted jefferson's statement which was that to stop a strong state we must be eternally vigilant into we must have

a strong state an aggressive state a surveillance state in order we i think i think it's regrettable that the state is so big that then our defense has to be so big i charge salut lee we're going to go but it's a reality and you know what i'd like to go back to the thing about liberty and equality. of course if people are unequipped if people had unequal talents unequal intelligence. then the only way to make them equal is to take away liberty that's the only way you can do it there's no other way so of course there's an inherent conflict between the liberty listening to quite i'm not going to idea at least get in context what you think i am not for. everything should be made by bleak but i think. i'm not doing these all i'm saying when the way. but great power of structure

a set of two level of she pocket is east then selectively when simply house to put it of course we have only a scholar to do that asked the state power in the sense of saudi we have to do sort of thing discreetly better that you don't know about pete and i have be we have to play this game i'm not this stupid but when obviously this that i asked east coast thinks like we can east can play a very post even though i don't see any they do that i'll laugh if i disagree if the regulars got to be ready if we had a new revolutionary government yeah i mean you revolutionary government and wiki leaks managed to get hold of this going got that government and we were going to publish it i mean i'm sure your question what i would i would i be it would be good to me i can look at it he spent joke yet you know what it still difficult for me to

answer this question now when i will be part of this evolutionary government i will send you my own sort of figure who like selling say better yeah. yeah i've also heard ideas it's got to be ordered liberty it can't be but everybody just thought of that in some sense a video on the front front of guantanamo bay the slogan is on a pound to defend freedom in iraq there is a prison camp camp liberty. these to me seem to be abuses of the word freedom and i want to know from you do you really think this is a tremendous state that is growing up in the united states is that entirely necessary to combat the rival risk competition the united states has from china from europe

or is this now a self-feeding system you know the people are the problem people are the problem they're greedy they lie they're deceitful they manipulate. they you know they're egocentric we understand that and people in government i just the same dangerous people with more power so that's why we have the checks and balances and i'm i'm all for you know more scrutiny and this and that however we live in a context the united states and israel are under attack from the international left which is very powerful for marlys dictators in south america that somebody seems to get along with. from the islamic fascists. and we live in an age when they have nuclear weapons and chemical and biological i think there's going to be and i could cast a few that will towards everything that happened in the twentieth century in the

twenty first because of this don't use don't you see the the creation of an enormous secretive bureaucracy. doing each other favors involved in rotating door contracts except don't you say that that perhaps can be similar to what occurred in the soviet union and we need a strong soviet union me if we eliminate competition but the fact is that look you've got a leftist in the white house a guy who was brought up and trained by communists whose whole political career was in the communist left you have competition you know. you can't have what you think of this monolith and you know the secret that controls everything you have if you prefer to think of it as many mafias and they're all at each other's throats and that's what keeps us somewhat safe or ha but if you you know first let me state something without any american economy it's countries like

russia like like russia. shut down the opposition i know asked again sent there and i know whom you mean and i think isn't this the guy whom when he made war bush said you're a man but if i looked into putin's ice and i knew i can trust that guy but he's deaf that would know what i'm saying is that look is my look stupid things that bush that so yeah and i thought it i thought it was ok yeah ok let me go on so listen i'm unfortunately you know you got a nice in you you need calm you nice you know that. like to do blood. the through a position to them democracy you must know these governors like to call everyone who opposes them fascist if you did a mob this democratic all fascist scum that evolution what i am afraid is that you use the word common use in the slightly similar way who ever is a little bit of critical or american consumer i think establishment he's

a common extent of call you by name calling and he's their only not referring you're not referring to barack obama yet was involved meaning don't want to censor and use the long lines then you have no idea of barack obama's background who he actually is if you say that because this is not just about my own well i don't get i'm not saying you guys challenge background was. just boy and hoot boy and i have some of them as we both know let me go briefly on but don't you think that nonetheless i think and deceased and you know that as you join you in a ruling that suddenly if not this is a good thing but don't you think that nonetheless for me the great satan get a boost but i actually did see was that we've he's known i wouldn't use the word of aggressive sometimes you need not intelligent politics that he he that he's out of he's the cape was that the united states as fact even the. com

came close to losing the position of unique voters the power under bush you're not that states last effectively control over a lot in america and so on and so on and i think and this is not i don't say to some lefties gee finally we got united states but i think we are entering even tempt we're going to be due a very dangerous. weather all of these dreams that america is somehow a game controller for me over and again i'm not saying this to be any you know what i mean of these lenses angel yeah you said dangerous what a good idea get it lance will unite you not is war bad listen let's face it and for this many lefties to be let us be off your scent that it's them or whatever other european welfare state deem moderate then. if you'll permit me the european lab

mark then i think even united states that in motion this may be the unique period in human he story after one of our who went for a statement of so many people in such safety. three daum and so on don't make so much fun of fuel again i think it's funny as he always was a disastrous spirit europe europe is a cultural theme park it's significant that's what happened that's what your welfare state that just took us out of the pot i have had personally i personally experience with a socialist dream paradise of sweden and i can tell you it is nothing like you have a thai thing but it wasn't going to have the effect of stealing food from these something has broken down this week the swedes have no morals david striving for if you talk of the striving towards a better position even if even if that position is liberty it is more liberty that

is a striving a direction that people wish to have that they can measure contemporary events by the direction of their hopes and ideals have we now abandon that true religion because religion is there waiting in the gap to just say to seize utopian vision that people can't live with the sense most people can't live with the sense that their lives are meaningless that they just you know born and die and are forgotten . so if you're a religious person then there's a divinity is going to make sorted out in the afterlife there redemption in the next life if you're not religious you want a redemption in this life that's what the left is about it is a religious movement and it's not an accident that all these is these utopianism whether it's communism or fascism or announces already better yet them or what or liberalism. it was for you with all the people have to want to make things

better this year may take a lot of bishan to make a modest change so you know i'm trying to think of of one that would fit what you want to do when you want to do what you do is a radical means that can have very destructive consequences as that of most managers when you have to you know when you can't keep them in court because you do but when you can for example keep that in court of course you don't say oh let's try to be friendly be did not see guy dad do it from all this plea you have put out a momentum i know you have to be i get asked if i don't plea and here i hope we agree at least and both all of that you thought p.s. stop for me that's why my point he's a nice emote this month i see as we all of us do that we have to approach ink but then sort of get us to feel and oh and i'm saying we should fully consciously confront these catastrophes no easy utopian think companies only need that iommi so

i let me try to tie up these discussions and you are just going to have a second if that is not in kuwait the end may be that it is your man he still needs some time you need he's a communist you know and i was going to say what is the natural war is the natural condition of mankind has always been war it's right somebody from the beginning ok and many of them peace occurs only when there's a concert of powers or a single power that can intimidate would be aggressors now i ask you who would you like that power to be other than the united states. i don't know but you know i think it's no longer even the candidates for me and united states get well that's right that's why we're facing such catastrophe but you're contributing it by encouraging leftists isn't the way to keep the state accountable is to have a free market in states i mean different political options different political

values and then people who don't like the conditions in one state can move to another state they can move their businesses they can move their assets they can do that then leaves the united states is not equipped to do as as we showed in iraq we can't we can't even occupy a country we can we can barely conduct a four day war that was a six week one and we went with america is it's a country where people are so there's so much opportunity people are so busy having fun. i don't want to go to war americans don't want to go to war and i think america has to be lied into war no actually it was tony blair that that united states is crippled. in part because its commander in chief is a leftist here i expect what he said he had yes if united states have a set of attacks and so on to go out of i'm sorry to inform you if this because of

people like obama who can succeed that four days into obama's administration he or theorize these drone strike in pakistan who do you think about really is what when he came into office and actually when he was running he knew that his weak flank was the military so he picked pakistan. he has killed more civilians and the left much and get away with it because the left because the left is a religious forces as nothing to do with principle the left doesn't care about. asians being you know killed by drones you know those because what does he want what does he want to do on the streets protesting what obama's schooling in pakistan and afghanistan you know beyond you know i don't have any respect for leftists anymore because i don't think their principal is the. difference we have both good because the want of some drama you are critical to are trying is a social good good because they want to vomit because you think he's

a communist leftist i'm could think of a lot of obama because quite on the contrary i think that he's not the key could go that the left he's not she pretends to be a leftist he's not that's the point i know what you're talking about slob like i'm going to not listen no talent galli i mean even when obama is doing but that just because they're a leftist out of your own class that left these friends and i thought he colleagues not my friend i don't buy this democratic left you know no good guys through democracy blah blah blah all i'm saying is that the problem we've gave and i spoke up in the sim is speech here with us. i'm afraid what happens oh you don't find this i know it isn't the problem yet the problems are going to be here forever yeah but you know there are problems and problems actually that's ok but just think you ok let's let's let's talk english gentlemen gentlemen that we saying we have

a lot of ground we have a lot of ground point we have a lot of ground zero we have to find that fix and that i think through this amazing that he has got to get out of this i think that is going to have a lot of ground to cover and i do want to go over it ok so. david you were in the black panther and you stayed in the black panthers post well you know that was never a member i raised money for you help them you are involved in that activity and you supported them yes. you have made those bankers who can't people that know if i was a methodist. and you brought in a bookkeeper from the then ramparts magazine which you which you were editing. but even paper and i just want to draw your attention to a letter that was sent to you. in my mind you were the person responsible

for baby steps sending her in to order the panthers books at this particular time was tense about to dressing her in a clue klux klan white sheet and sending her home to talk to you in this isn't this isn't that i mean that just slanderous letter by a bitter guy. you know who actually was involved with the panthers before i was it never said anything. the left will defend the cause and will sacrifice any individual in this case it was me. david do you think this this tragedy i mean you're involved you know in a murder i mean a murder was around you this is. something of great personally importance to you and it must have affected your your outlook on the world but i do think that you this opened your eyes to the reality or rather it khaled your perception i i was very aware of that so then he was killed in our body was discovered in february

nine hundred seventy five. i mean i didn't do anything politically after that for the next. nine years. i voted for reagan in one thousand nine hundred eighty four and that's when i emerged as a conservative of course i came under tremendous attack from the left but i hadn't said anything. was going to say i haven't said anything negative hadn't done any political activity attacking the left in all those nine years because i was very aware that i was. you know i felt i had been betrayed by the movement i felt guilty. when i had supported. so i waited till i was relatively cool and you know it's in your character to. if

you're passionate or not but that david is that you started writing biographies after ben believe on patients that into rockefeller's now the big american family right i mean when you started writing all those biographies did you interview members of those well connected families yes you moved into a new sofa or bit as a result of your partner and. i really had remained pretty much the same all my life i didn't move into ending the war bits i mean i did i did i had to i lost every friend that i ever had as as a leftist and that was a mid-life. so mater we constituted might make friendships i think that's a big factor that keeps people in the left is that they know that if they cross the line they're going to lose it well their friends. well.

i mean what yeah just. ok ok all right sorry about that no problem i am for about anything week human face but you will be allowed to do that got you know because it is you know that's going to be put down and activism or what you do at all i have to go to universities with bodyguards because of the fascist left in this country i have assassination threats a lot of i'm the only guy in the show that i physically assault that by i think i have to be a communist by can you need something that i'm not for the least so i might come out and not getting like you who will you be voting for in the upcoming election. well we don't have a candidate yet well i mean amongst the cat amongst the candidates oh i think romney has the best chance to beat this guy it's a big debate about yeah i'm not i'm not happy with anybody i agree here we feel

it's very tragic and really maybe even bad thing the long term for the vitality of the night that states that it probably can it looks to me like the east simply wasn't able to produce a candidate which would have enough growing force and it's very sad i mean i don't i look happy about the i'm angry it's too good thank you. so you know visiting he did not leave i don't want to spend the commune east he's a socialist with a few women face species are always thought i don't think he said so something that you don't think is i don't know mr farnum is my good frocks growing up that you think. ok thank you by the way you. write. you know governor but you know you have to do a little bit of study in the spread of this sort of madness you don't want to go it .

plays be a staple to you on the plane unions to t.v. look fly you out or something you know so i think it's time to raise this space. wealthy british style. markets why not canada. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max cause or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to kaiser report.