it's technology innovation all the developments around russia we've got the future covered. thanks for joining r.t. and. these are your headlines egypt erupts protests in colorado against the ruling generals turn into tears clashes with security forces two people have a border they've done and over one hundred. twenty terror attacks killed at least eleven in russia's north caucasus what police say they are the hallmarks of al qaida suicide bombings. the pentagon draws up and game plans for iran boasting it could crush forces in less than a month. now facebook's new talent

a new feature that got many people worried for their privacy peter lavelle has been asking his guests what the fuss is about and who's really benefiting. and you can. follow him welcome across town guy peter lavelle well many people are turning to facebook's timeline to share all kinds of experiences and moments others are concerned about the security and safety of this new interface what does the new facebook timeline mean and who benefits from this new feature.

to cross-talk facebook's timeline i'm joined by jerry carney in london he is the managing director of sales remedy he is also a business mentor and business developer in seattle we go to we need to run my sauce tracy is the de wayne in and get injured professor of law at the university of washington and in san francisco we have roman kardashian ski he is the c.e.o. and co-founder of news three sixty a personalized news application are a focus is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want before we start the discussion let's take a look at timeline what facebook has recently introduced and has caused a great deal of controversy here this is and there's a patrol that she's the executive producer of cross talk and this is what they have done here now it's very controversial and some some people have set up to seventy percent of respondents don't like what facebook has done so let's talk about what facebook is doing right and wrong i need to if i can go to you first and in seattle

about a week ago i was sitting in starbucks here in moscow and sat down opened up my computer went to facebook and then went to him buy a cup of coffee and by the time i had come. back from buying my coffee i'd been timelines and i wasn't very happy about it i was vaguely aware that this was happening i'm not a big facebook person but i honestly didn't like that i thought it was quite arrogant on the part of facebook i had no fair warning and i didn't know what was going on and as you know a participant of the facebook experience i thought i was being left out what do you think about what facebook is doing. well i've written about this and i think it's just again it's intrusive in the sense that people aren't really aware that this is mandatory that timelines being rolled out around the world and at some point you're going to be timeline which means that you know no normally when you post on your wall you know you see stuff that's very recent but i mean facebook's been around for years now so timeline makes all of your stuff so those old posts years ago from

parties you went to in the drinks that you had that people you may regret is now on that wall and it's much more easily searchable so it's really the fact that suddenly like there's a virtual diary that's on the web and so you know friends and enemies that may still have access to your page can can easily search and you know in some sense dig up dirt on you so the fact that you know the notice wasn't really i think as you saw what people expected and that it's really difficult to opt out if you want to get rid of stuff you're going to now have to spend a lot of time scrubbing your page and deleting stuff that's from years ago so facebook is really putting the burden on its users to deal with this and saying kind of take it and if you want to clean it up it's your problem ok terry what about that it's free i mean you know facebook is free i mean if you don't like being on it then leave ok it's your page you do what you want with it ok i'm being counterintuitive here ok i mean why should facebook be made responsible for your content. well to be honest you know my opinion on this is and i'm very focused on

business to business market and social media and i actually really embraced timeline ok and see it as a great possibility of shine the growth of your time on facebook yes there's privacy issues but you know at the end of the day we're all open to a bit of an area of privacy been taken from us and to be honest i think i've had more privacy taken from me in the bars and restaurants of london i have on earth facebook page. you know to me i stay yeah but to be on a studio my credit card has been cloned twice in london and that was in bars up to get no one's ever stolen my identity on facebook perhaps i'm just not desirable enough i don't know ok roman if i go to you in san francisco where you jump in on this let me know because you're not going to have a well maybe well i have a time line in a bar one day but there's an interesting difference roman where you jump in on this . yeah i think it's always as always if you have a consumer product and a change something especially if you're as popular as facebook there's going to be backlash and there has been significant backlash against island but in terms of you

know stuff being more visible i think that's actually positive in the sense that this is all the post that you did back in two thousand five when you were in college or something there were still there and it was there were still possible to find them but you were probably not aware of that because you didn't see them on a regular basis and now that you have that your time line this is something you want to own because you know this is your public face whereas before the wall just used to be what's happening right now with you where you are and what you're doing now you have this history of your life that you want to make sure that it's you know that it's good publicly what people see is you know beneficial to your image so i think it's actually it's good they've made it so searchable and so discoverable because now people are going to go back and look at ok what what have i published especially since you know before all the privacy before like you have to see ruling a lot of the privacy settings that people had back in the day where they were not aware aware of what was public and what was friends only so now this is a good way to go back and see ok here's a here's my whole life on facebook what i need to call from here what i need to

clean up and essentially what this forces people to do is own up to what they're posting and you know make sure that their timeline is something that the people want people to see other than before people with malicious people with malicious intent would actually be able to go and find stuff that you were not aware of it's continued with the way it looks that we need to i mean it went from kind of they're trying to go scrapbook ok but you know i just recently got an i phone and i put it instagram on their own what why facebook paid a billion dollars for it is a mystery to me but anyway it's a different proton pick you know and i'm just a picture of my little toy terrier and i put it on there but that's not the most important event of my life it happens to be part of my life the way it looked before it was more prioritized what i thought was important now facebook is telling me what's important and what is important is exactly what i just did yeah go ahead . and it's creating new categories too so it's starting to ask you for more personal information about things like major life events like divorces or illnesses

things you know medical conditions deaths in your family now those may seem innocuous and again yes the onus is on us to clean up our profile but there are different people and different you know there are teenagers and there are people my age middle aged you know users who are going to have different time and different knowledge of what should and shouldn't be scrubbed i think the concern there is at the end of the day facebook wants us to put more intimate information in these new categories they're creating because they want to sell that data or they want you know other parties to create applications to use that and that's the part that people still don't fully understand which is that when they're you know signing on or using new kinds of apps with interfaces that that data is now being provided you know through timeline is going to be pulled and used i've written recently about another trend which is a bit alarming which is that employers are asking for people's access to people's passwords so they can look at their facebook accounts now a timeline makes it a lot easier for them to sort of see a lot of information much more quickly so yeah over time i think users may get used

to the fact that they need to scrub they shouldn't provide certain information but it takes time and for facebook to kind of say you got to take it like this and you got to spend hours cleaning up your profile and by the way as you're doing that and you're providing us more information there may be employers there maybe active elop or some are out there you know taking your information and using it in ways you didn't expect you know terry is this really changing the nature of facebook because it seems like you just accommodating business corporations that want to know information about you to sell you stuff i mean maybe i'm naive but that's not how i that's not how i looked at facebook up until a few a week ago ok now i'm a lot more suspicious when you're an expert on the business model go ahead. it is you know definitely i think where i sit here in a conversation we're now having about facebook and online is the fact that my focus is very much business but i can relate to the personal aspects that are being raised here and i think if i just part jump back to the personal side of it i think facebook is encouraging us to pour more perhaps in some and interesting detail into

it and categorize the data and actually people are interested in nice issue instinct people are noisy so they don't want to see more detail from a business perspective for me i think there's a great opportunity to show the growth of your business build awareness and actually confidence you know you all it's you know it's a great way for a consumer to look back at the growth of a business or product or service ok what i mean if i'm going i mean i can i can't disagree with terry but that's talking about business i mean but most of facebook are people ok and ryan i've been in if i go to rome on this i mean do you i mean facebook is going to get the reputation of just being a target for people to send you ads right i mean that's not what it was before that's not how it started. well i mean i don't think it is just a target for ads anymore either i mean and just to come back to a little bit i mean we were one of the like we're now developer and we use the data that you have in your facebook profile to give you a lot of kind of value back for your time investment we look at all that you all

the stuff that you like you've posted we are friends with and try to use that information basically to filter news in a way that is very narrow in a way that brings you kind of very relevant news feeds that are exactly what your interests and that's what just one of the ways you can lose an. extremely streatley magnanimous to me ok but it sounds like you when you want to make a buck here i need to do you want to come in on this because i mean people don't join me just as a model i'm sorry they don't need to go if you're trying to. go ahead and. this is all about let me just say this is all about context right and it's again customization where you're getting you know recommendations about newspaper articles that other people are reading that you might like to read might be a good. business model but i think again it's the issue of there's going to be a lot of unexpected ways in which that information which are being sort of encouraged to post is then used and it surprises you again new recent story which

is that this is actually a russian location company i free innovations created called girls around me which is polling publicly available information both from facebook and another company foursquare where you basically post your locations and created an app called girls around me where if someone was in a neighborhood they suddenly got a map showing them where young women are in bars and restaurants in their neighborhood right which is a kind of creepy right it's like well. you know the guys are great you know i mean if you look at the web page though look at their web page it says things like you know looking to hook up or want to one night stand right this is not an innocuous and so again it's one of those things where you know you post and the consequences. maybe unintended ok but what can i just say here jump in here. i don't think we should just focus we've. probably we are both smiley but areas

where you could be drawn to women or wherever it might be there is a lot of positive information to actually resort directing to things that we do want to say that are positive good to enjoy. just the bad side of facebook i don't think it's all bad here ok on that note we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on facebook's timeline state do. you. still. want to. there hasn't been a thing yet on t.v. . it is to get the maximum political impact.

the full source material is what helps keep journalism honest we. we wanted to present. something else. this inside. the room. similar to not as their absence. but is their life outside civilization possible. and.

welcome back to rostock parallel to remind you we're talking about how facebook's timeline will change social networks. ok and if i go back to you in seattle with this change in facebook you think it's self-defeating because it's so many people are dissatisfied with it could we see another social networking phenomenon that will be similar to facebook that will but have the features that facebook used to have because if everyone's going to be so much more careful. now it kind of defeats the purpose of because facebook was a lot of fun and i'm not a big user of it but i liked it but now with all this i have to worry about my security and i should put a picture of me drinking with my friends but it was all about being with your friends ok i mean is facebook taking a big risk here i don't think it is and so i think facebook has made lots of

changes over the years in terms of its privacy policies in the settings and what information can and can't be seen and what they've seen is that you know they are relying on inertia right that you know there may be outrage but at the end of the day it takes effort for us to actually change what's there so i think they're going to see that yes some people will vote with their feet or opt out but a lot of people are going to stay on so that's why again part of this is and i'm not disagreeing with you with the other folks here saying yeah part of this is about all of us educating ourselves but also demanding of the businesses that are taking our information to be very transparent about where it's going and for facebook to take some responsibility for that too in terms of the privacy issues of third party apps but the other is for you know legislation and regulation is going to be important to hear you know like congress or in other countries parliament should be saying yeah it's not acceptable for employers to have access to that information so there's got to be limits placed i hope there are other business models that come around right linked in is the grown ups version of facebook and

some extent for professional networking so different sites for different different kinds of information i think is what you're going to see it's interesting terry do you do we do could i cannot just yeah i was going to say just what we've seen you know we just seeing facebook grow up that's all it's still relatively new phenomena go ahead. i faith can i just say earn a tomato quite an important fact they are the facebook is a different environment you know we look at it from our point of view for in the business side of what we do social media wise facebook really is a bit of a pile of a bit of a fun time to try and show off and that's the responsibility of the user to understand where they sit and what they actually put into those social networks ok where you come in on that roman because i mean again and again you know it's just it's facebook growing up it's i mean it's the business world and personal social networking meeting and we should just get used to it. yeah i think i think the biggest challenge here is you know there are alternatives to facebook or there's

google plus is making a huge push and trying to get people to come over right and instead of using facebook try to use their platform but the challenges are the same it's having users realize what they're sharing it's either public or not public and i think that's the biggest problem that people don't have the understanding and oftentimes a privacy controls are obscure oftentimes it's very hard to understand where where where the photo that you're posting is going to go and who's going to see it and i think that the changes are you for why it is only as you and is that going to go ahead jump in jump in here just for you cannot let your opinion on it obviously been in the poll of the world fink plays a big paul in nice and lots of people are very quick to jump into social networks and get involved with books but don't really on the stained what they do even when they put information in there and how are they and what can be used of. the you know agree on that one go ahead roman really about education yeah i agree one hundred percent i agree one hundred percent and that's why i think that the

regulation in the kind of government involvement should be around educating people because i mean it's impossible to regulate. to to you and me to go ahead so anything you have education has i think again the size of the market here and education is helpful to a point about facebook itself but again it's that third party collection of data where you can expect consumers to anticipate all of the different business models that are developing and we just give you one example which i think is that one of the more concerning which is that there's a company called social intel and it trawls the web and looks at not only your facebook posts but your tweets and all kinds of things that you're doing and it collects that information and it provides it to employers so this isn't even about it when you apply for a job the company itself looking your facebook page they go to a third party company that's basically. acting a digital dossier about you even when you delete information at least in the us they're subject to a kind of credit reporting laws but they keep that information for up to seven

years so you may have deleted it in one context but it's being used to make decisions about you and whether you should be hired or given credit in a completely different context and it's those kinds of things you can't just educate consumers because again i think government and consumers often don't know what those business models are so i do think that there is a role here let me more regulators to understand and to try to. be the local users . go ahead yeah so i think i think users have to understand it first i mean because yeah you can you can regulate this stuff and maybe american companies won't go ahead and do this right they won't take publicly available information or they'll comply when you delete information for facebook they'll have to delete it from their profiles as well but there's a lot of international companies that don't fall under these laws so i think the user has to understand what he's sharing is going to be public are people going to see it is just my friends or is this you know all these companies that are trying to collect data about me. and with this i was devastated just i mean really. ok

terry first the need to go ahead you know i just i'm hearing both sides here anita and roman and you know i'm very much agree and we've all taken off my business out on the use of it now and looking at the personal side of it and i agree with you know the actual trawling of information building in character or you know witness affectively and putting that forward to people you know people's lives and we've all put things on there that we should have done and been drunk in certain places and said certain things in posts and that you know i truly believe it is not the right use of it. again you know there is a real responsibility issue and i totally agree that you cannot educate such a large audience it's nearly impossible. to go back to because again i'm looking at the whole beginnings of facebook it was for your friends and you say things to your friends or you wouldn't see in other places and now we're learning that you have to be careful on facebook as well again it kind of defeats the purpose of its origins at least. yeah you know you're right in saying that you know the term friend you

know friend. the business community and the wider public sphere so yeah maybe maybe we need a new term but your business associates i don't know so yeah. and. actually i think the issue of what law applies is another what right is going to be a big puzzle for every company right if the data is being used anywhere in the world if i'm an american consumer i should have the privacy protections that apply to me here but what's interesting is that in the european union actually there is there's going to be a new right to be forgotten which is part of kind of european privacy right so europeans actually have more rights than americans when it comes to privacy in the private sphere and i don't know how facebook's going to deal with that right to be forgotten ok terry i mean a couple a couple of months ago i bought a watch that used to be some profanity t.v.

ok i work in television it was kind of a joke and it was on its face ok and i put it on there ok so it's funny was for my friends and all of a sudden i started getting all of these. wristwatches and i didn't want those ads but they all keep flooding on to my page i don't like that or just more i do you get used to it right. i've no i don't think we should get used to it because you know the sign you know i'll buy a ticket for a swiss airline and that's where salem follows me you know and i've bought the ticket you know go wild on the deal spend my money and then i do disagree with the really what will get in their traditional interruption of market seat when really we've been led to believe that social media is all about creating awareness of whatever your business or person and drawer in the right type of information people to you and i think he sees without getting really confused in law is available and what people use with the information late goal you know i don't like being followed

i don't think any of us do except by people we know ok what do you think about that room and how do we avoid that or it's simply impossible. i think i agree that it is a little bit disconcerting to realize that you know that all of your actions are being interpreted in the sense of what is the best ad to to show you but i think it's this point it's impossible to go back i think you know the that are also involved in the past like ten to fifteen years in such a way that i think it would be impossible to regulate it to prohibit this at this point and everybody's doing it i mean even even you have to be on facebook to experience this just search on google you know a couple of times and all the ads that you see who are going to slowly start to kind of converge on what you were searching about so i think i think it's usually they will go away they want and need to go ahead. you know but there should be limits again this is what's called behavioral advertising you know you're getting targeted ads that are based on kind of your preferences and what you're doing and when it comes to like wrist watches or you know airplane flights that's one thing

but again when you're getting into areas like pharmaceuticals medicine you know i guess target recently it was revealed that they were able to predict based on the vitamins you buy whether you're pregnant and start sending you coupons for a good while before you disclose that you're pregnant to your loved ones you know it so there are ways in which again. so so regulators and governments are starting to look at what are the appropriate limited limits to what they call behavioral advertising because i think there should be again too late to turn back but by companies need to be responsible about these things. terry i'd like to talk about something i did mention something that i need to mention earlier in the program maybe we have to have a new term beyond friend more important than friend i mean it's a totally new word because then it's like that next level we go back to the old days ok or is that just illusory. always great to say let's go back to the old days of enjoy those and we do that in any part of our life but i feel

the fing here is you know. lots of people have so-called frames but they're not real true friends people very easy to associate yourself with people take a friendship when i don't know that person and i think to a certain degree google plus i started to look at this and it has circles that you join which are breaks up where the contact between people and i do think it's time to revisit that who truly are your your call for ains and who are the people that perhaps. subscribe it element of book from you want to listen to what you're talking about want to have a little view from the outside but not true close friends what do you think when you've got ten seconds then the program. yeah i think i think there's definitely something that is you know that having that has to be explored i mean there are companies that are doing it like there's a social network that limits your connections to basically a hundred fifty people where you have to choose the right the right people to interact with and yeah i think i think that there's going to be a lot of these attempts in the future as well ok this is all going to end up on our

timeline i'm sure many thanks to my guests today in london seattle and in san francisco and thanks to our viewers for watching as you are to remember across talk rule. and.

mission. critical three. four charges three to make amends three three. three.