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i'm julian a song writer stress editor of wiki leaks expose the world secrets these documents belong the united states government been attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemned and i could ask you why you broke the law illegally shoot the son of a book five hundred days now i've been detained without charge but that hasn't stopped that part. today we're on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. is the arab spring the enactment of a dream or is it an impossible fantasy this week i cut through the spin and speak directly to two leading revolutionaries from cairo i speak to writer and activist abdel fattah imprisoned and now banned from travel he has become the icon of a revolution betrayed joining me under house arrest is now be the director of the

brain center for human rights and one of the most important figures in the bahraini uprising i want to ask them about the revolutions across the middle east they've been successful crushed captured or concealed and what motivates them to continue to put their lives on the line. up. you see me and we have here. a. yeah yeah here you know but. none of us are. maybe not. so what happened in the past couple of weeks when we called you to try and get you over here i mean you're in jail for a while i mean yeah i was in i was just detained for almost half a day and did not before that month i was beaten up in the street few months ago i

was kidnapped from my home by masked security persons and taken turn on a place of blindfolded and handcuffed and i was tortured there i was thrown back home when i said in my twitter account that i'm going to meet julian assange and i'm going to just speak to him in a t.v. program and last night my house was surrounded by almost one hundred policemen and . machine guns and i did realize that i was not at home didn't they just. ask my family to tell me to come to the public prosecutor today at four o'clock where i am here so you are here that i got here and i received that when i was last night and i think i went but i mean what is what are you going to do or i'm going to go back i mean i have to face i mean it's not the first time but this is this trouble this is the freedom this is democracy that we are fighting for has a cost and that we have to pay the cost and the cost might be very expensive as we

have paid a high cost in bahrain and i'm willing to pay that for the changes that we are fighting for. and a lot where you act legally are you are you in the clear no. no. i am still pending prosecution the case is under investigation i banned from travel and accused of. sabotage. of public property namely military apc's. stealing military weapons. inciting illegal assembly for the purpose of terrorism. so i am basically accused of beating the hell out of a couple of platoons doing that weapons and then killing greg you're a legend to me a very naughty boy. and a superman also i mean people been doing stuff that would be impossible for.

confronting the p.c.'s on my own and so on and i have witnesses that the prosecution witnesses have testified to me being in two places at the same time yet i'm still being investigated so i'm obviously capable of you know many superpowers but. which is pretty awesome. i had a good reputation and street cred in prison you know people go to prison because they steal cars but i'm being accused of stealing them. how do you how do you think you're. particularly interested in just the idea that they want to use courts as a tool against activists and as illegitimate do you know it's not enough to be able to beat the hell out of them and then have to be able to kill people in fact even when they do targeted killings like we think their target killings they're targeting people who are very crucial on the ground but they're not we'll known so they are stuck with this you know the famous act was the limit what do you do about them and i think they are trying to build a legitimacy for using the courts against us and it keeps backfiring but the they

are biting the time they mean so that's why the case is still on and that's why i'm still accused maybe they'll eventually manage to tarnish my image enough and they are working on it i'm. being accused of holding prove views for instance. which again you know street cred what's the current status what's the state of play in bahrain right now i was a different three different status in tunisia complete revolution complete overthrow of the regime completely. well it's then you have egypt tunisia then you have egypt which is halfway revolution. not yet completed me and desist him and the regime still exist then you have been behind the video she is still exist and walking and did not yet achieve anything but the revolution is this did in the process. of continuing. many people were killed in terms of

percentage much more than people lost to tunisia and egypt unfortunately we had a new region but all by families dictators. tenth of a couple of hundred of years but there is strength comes from the wealth from the american support from the armies they have and from knowledge of them and see from people no other not legitimately from people but those are really al it is that their ruling us and we can't change in because nobody wants to talk about. what's what's the present state of play in egypt you know you. basically you know the eighteen days thing was quite surprising that you know that mubarak would fall that quickly the price was high but we thought it would be much higher and so on so what's happening in egypt is that what we expected should happen like i mean we would have expected that. something that would stretch. over

a year. so that year that didn't happen with mubarak is happening with the military and people after an initial moment of thinking you know that the military might just decide to. retain its unity and status by not engaging and not that they're protecting the regime is actually the meat to the is the quote of the regimes that are usually. against military rule the revolutionary groups in brain and the people who supported the protest movements embrace being well adopt. too scared to act. who's left to still be pushing forward while still a lot of people who have i mean i would be surprised or you should not be surprised to see half of the bahraini population coming out and want to protest it's still happening it's not happening in any of the revolution what none of the revolution

we had in the history in the past fifty years you would see fifty percent of the population out in this region want to protest but you will see in bahrain unfortunately because of the double standard of many countries because of the double standard of many. channels like just. like other european channels that they don't hide ideas but this is the reality why does an al-jazeera does you know where positive in egypt they were positive in tunisia in fact or just zero where assigned for any of the video shown in the arab world if it is a credible revolution or not for just a little coverage of those revolution musically but but when it comes to bahrain i just you know what what i'm talking about the other because you are not the english language completely doing this was all right was a certain limit they were ok the other week when they were complete silence in fact in many areas they've taken the side of the government why why because they're all from a seven similar ruling family under similar region

a democracy in bahrain means it's going to have an impact of qatar it's going to have impact in saudi arabia which has the arab we have t.v. channel so why did saudis troops into into bahrain and that's i mean and this is something the whole world has to speak out and have to condemn to what happened but we've seen the invasion of saudis to my country with complete silence now the same government sending troops to leave to fight their regime and now then i give this to syria and i said which they have to be maybe but when it comes to bahrain they will complete silence was always in the drawer where they scared. of the sheer act of us here in bahrain spreading into saudi no because it is so does our very influential united states in europe have. default the interest of united states for the interest of the many european countries for the autumn save for the different

of the all year for their mutual interest which many countries seen it has more priority than the human rights of the bahraini for example disseminate united states which ask a question not the same for syria they are sitting on so what i mean is that is that meant by that a president to defend america in the present that even though you might consul saying that we will not talk about behind decision because behind it is improving itself and it did doing better whether people that as i'm talking to you a few hours ago one man died because of the guess we have daily basis people are dying it is iran fueling the really forces this is what i want a government saying this is what the americans maybe try to buy that but that does not know of none of their division in the group did i read a cable at the time of these bahraini protests about eight months ago. and this us cable which we have published says that the bahraini government offices came

into the us embassy and they said look iran is behind these calls for human rights in bahrain and it is it is funneling money and weapons into the iranian resistance and then the u.s. ambassador writing back to washington said that he saw no evidence that that was true so they keep claiming this this one here i mean this but years that had never yet similar to that at least one cable that was about me where one of the government agent goes down attic an embassy says that may be eligible for receiving funds from the iranian government in the americans. said department thats it. not true they've got nothing to support that they do think this fear mongering about iran is the is the primary reason why the west is not so i'm or they want their behaving as stable as if they feel based on the i mean they want bahrain to be very quite unstable losing been at your leisure at losing mubarak in egypt and going to

stone he's very much you know that there was a telephone call it where they had a fight. with obama and when it comes to behead this is the last thing the saudis want to see an evolution on behind few miles from the border which means going to have impact niggas in saudi arabia that's why saudi cinda troops about having to take part in the crackdown and killing people detaining people and did the if they can but that bloody crackdown would be complete silence all from the international community. would you don't want democracy years cut out of would she want to promote democracy in syria and other parts of the ward but they don't want democracy and you have to ask people you have to cheer what you have to share the wealth and those government will not accept that to happen. yes i remember. during the heat of the egyptian revolution sui man the head

of domestic intelligence in egypt was proposed by joseph biden by the state department by hillary clinton to be a sort of replacement figure for barak a compromise figure and we released many cables about him and his position in relation to israel and relationship i states and being a sort of torture in chief but very quickly after it was apparent that it was not going to succeed. you saw hillary clinton turn around and start to praise. the egyptian revolution and say that in fact the egyptian and tunis revolutions were because of two great american companies twitter and facebook. you must.

try to time again we have to be allies that there's a there's a battle for the narrative. in that evolution there were lucian's about its ideas as much as they are about you know buddies in the streets and bullets and so on and the most improved aspect of this method of narrative is to try and that is down that evolution to being about. that doesn't mean that the facebook youth don't play an important role in that if we use and they did but the thing is if you. drew a circle around you know as a side of the revolution and say this is the true revolution everybody else is not for you. and then you play on everything you play on class you play on. how much people are willing to use violence to defend themselves to isolate you know what evolutionary forces from each other so they in so the well off with

a highly educated internet connected youth lead an important role in that evolution and they were for the very tactical reasons they were the symbols of the revolution because you needed the whole world to love the egyptian revolution so you also had this great woodstock like party and read without the drugs and sex but you know you had this wonderful. you know amazing and very inspiring it's a very you feel there's no aspect of you know a fantasy about the party into your square but if you tell the story you know that's why it's about that is within the story of the egyptian revolution as these wonderful kids good looking well connected kids being into her years then you ignoring the workers you ignoring the street battles you ignoring how much we have to use violence in defense you know we were not sticking to the script that people outside of the revolution think that it was going on sue hillary was not just pushing to come american companies she was pushing and that it is that is designed

to stop that evolution to make sure that it doesn't go deeper than mubarak. you wrote. this square is a legend that would fall if the families of martyrs stopped to believe in it the dream is the alternative to the regime if we let go of it for realistic rationally committed to bates that follow the right order would perish leave the experts behind and listen to the poets but we are in a revolution but go of the mind and hold on to the dream but we are in a revolution before the course and embrace of the unknown for we are in a revolution so abrade them out of ideas single story spectacles and dreams nothing is real but their blood nothing is guaranteed but the turn of that part of the revolution in egypt has now finished the square but

is the dream finished there is no articulation of what that dream is it's certainly not a boarding quest in the present democracy where's your nation could go in a war. like the u.k. went without the consent of the populace when. electing the president who promised hope is almost exactly the same as in a king the president who didn't promise hope as happened in the us. you know. the dream is the dream is what makes you work and the city is really in the dream is what makes is a democracy that doesn't give rise to. street and occupy london and greek riots and so on so it's but it's still very it's still very strong and it still lives there but it is not. it has not been articulated we don't have

a theory we don't have it so the dream you see it. in moments when you can become poetic like i managed to do in that article the dream you see in the graffiti and that's why it's been very much tied to the inn and to the martyrs i mean we don't just see them as people who died they are immortal. and it is not in their sacrifice but it is in how we see their sacrifice and how we express the sect of us and how we keep their memory living that we touch what the dream is but i cannot tell you what it is exactly and it is in moments of battles actually that i almost can't touch it like that when we have when we are battling the police there are always these moments of cease fires that don't last for very long i think they're usually the police are feeling i mean ition and so on and when the police stops fighting we stop to medically but in these moments you know you find that people have food and food circles you've got fires all over the place because

there's you know fires you know people have been using one of the cooked meals or something like that so these fires become actually like one fire people are sitting around. suddenly you know street musicians come up out of the blue and you know the people are drinking tea and singing together and so there is a post modern state that we are trying to reach and we don't know what it is exactly but this is why we're having that evolution and not just an orderly reform and this is why it doesn't actually matters what the us government once and what is doing and so on because it's about something that's much deeper and i don't know if we're going to win it this time and i don't know if we're going to win it in my lifetime but it's enough that i that i you know on an almost weekly basis that i get moments where i can almost touch. i think we're in the end of two thousand and ten with as easy. wave have started tsunami and i think it's

going to have it's going to change the whole region maybe in very few years the whole region going to change those small government in the region. which is going to reform themselves fast and those government who will resist changes i think the tsunami will move them remove them from their seats those government in the united states or european governments who have who build their relation who build their interest. long strategy interest with those dictators i think they're going to lose a lot those government who are smart enough to have a relation with the people rather than those dictators i think those would benefit changes i'm very optimistic that changes are going to happen in our region positive changes in these moments. where they're in prison or you're in a situation of being held and. beaten. when you you have to

maximize aleisha and you do not have control of your physical space you don't have control of your body someone else has your body and you are not at liberty in the most fundamental sense of the word. what do you what do you think about. how do you try to control your feelings to see you through this moment i think if you have a goal if you believed in the just or fewer of your struggle you will come you would overcome those difficulties and you know that changes that you are fighting for to being there for hundreds of years is not an easy thing to change. to achieve those changes you have to be willing to pay a price and might that price might be your life and i'm sure those people are hitting the movement in the arab world of that type of people who are willing to

live to achieve those changes yeah prison sucks man. and it's this last i mean this is my second time to be. good prison. and. my fight was this time that i was facing a military prosecutor than i if used to be could nice of the legitimacy of the military justice system and so i was sent eventually and we managed to win this major victory and i was sent to a proper measure street and then he still kept me in detention and so there was this moment when i was completely collapsing completely collapsing and i really wanted to be out and attend the birth of my first son. and i couldn't because of that and so i collapsed and then he was born and three hours leaders my family managed to send me photos of him and it didn't matter

at that moment it just didn't matter that it would end sin so it's always been it's always been the experience of being surrounded by love. on a very personal level but also in solidarity you know. i've been privileged and lucky enough that when i go to prison there's a massive massive sort of that if he if he would in the world and it's usually over very personal fashion and you know the support that you had only when you're. mostly through family visits so it is an isolation that i that i would be able to handle and it isn't being put with dangerous criminals in a very crowded cell that they wouldn't be have able to handle but if i was prevented from visits that i don't know how it be able to handle that. that's yeah don't tell them. you're a father try after your father. will you tell your children

to grow up to be activists like you and me didn't happen put in prison beaten up you don't have to tell them that just by default it's going to happen and they're learned by example yeah i mean my son my daughter now though for each protest i just moved in from school because they would have asked this same school from the children of members of. the ruling family and they are paying high prices maybe higher than me because i'm doing my fight and struggle and i'm ready for the reaction but they started growing up seeing the action for reason they don't know why be in their house being. raided at midnight the father has been removed from bed and beaten in front of their eyes their houses been tear gassed maybe more than twenty times in the past one year. they've seen things normal

children they did not see their life but they have learnt a lot that much although that their age. when the old my daughter she's nine years old and my son just become fourteen years of age i mean he used to take part with me in each and every protest since he was five years old. and so my daughter she never liked the human right and politics and nothing like that but since i was kidnapped and beaten in front of her she become a radical. and activist and my wife also she's very quiet woman but she's an activist i think the whole family become activist we are almost more than a thousand members. yeah the family and i mean i think many of them become activists now the whole nation the revolution have made the whole nation activist imagine buying government stop journalists to get into the country stop the human rights

organization to get into the country but most of the people young people become journalists become human rights activists become bloggers becomes internet market opportunity to thank god government of bahrain have made such a young movement which is i think we're going to benefit and the whole arab world will benefit from them and their own revolution as well. you know your son is going to grow up into the new egypt. i had this thought that like now i need to bring my ring up my son to heat food. in order for him to be to avoid being killed and then i remembered i named him after. the who is victim of police tortured he died and his then men who died in alexandria two years ago prior to the revolution but his face has been a symbol for the revolution and he did nothing there was you know there was there's

no way i can protect it's there's no point in telling in raising my son. to avoid being an activist or even to be cruel he would anything like that because it doesn't matter when you have repression the violence is what end. that it's going to affect you anyway you they just this is so it and them that is going to fix you and you cannot get in. you know a good life for your child in this you getting to the other child and so does that it's not in my hands i can't even do anything about six six six. six six six six six six.

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