show here on our t.v. well today join us on talks with the very people at the forefront of the revolts in egypt and bahrain including activists have your job and was arrested just days ago . i mean julian assange. editor of wiki leaks expose the world secrets these documents the united states government being attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemned. illegally should pull five hundred days now i've been detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us. today on the quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. is

the arab spring the enactment of a dream or use it an impossible fantasy this week i cut through the spin and speak directly to two leading revolutionaries from cairo i speak to writer and activist. imprisoned and now banned from travel he has become the icon of a revolution betrayed joining me under house arrest is now below the director of the brain center for human rights and one of the most important figures in the bahraini uprising i want to ask him about the revolutions across the middle east and they've been successful crushed captured concealed and what motivates them to continue to put their lives on the line. you see me we have here. a. good like when we were worried about you. yeah yeah he is he's out now but not for long.

and none of us are out for long maybe not. so what happened in the past couple of weeks when we called you to try and get you over here i mean you're in jail for a while i mean yes i was i was just detained for almost half of the and did not before the month i was beaten up in this city few months ago i was kidnapped from my home by masked security. and taken to know in a place of the blindfolded and handcuffed and i was tortured then was thrown back home and when i said in my twitter account that i'm going to meet julian assange and i'm going to his. t.v. program and last night my house was surrounded by almost one hundred policemen and . machine guns and i did realize that i was not at home didn't they just. ask my family to tell me to come to the public prosecutor today at four o'clock

where i am here so you are here and i received when i was last night and i think i went but i mean what is what are you going to do or i'm going to go back i mean i have to face i mean it's not the first time but this is the struggle this is the freedom this is democracy that we are fighting for doesn't cost and that we have to pay the cost and the cost might be very expensive as we have the high costs in bahrain and i'm willing to pay that for the changes that we are fighting for. and. where you at legally are you are you in the clear no. no. i am still pending prosecution the case is under investigation i am banned from travel and i am accused of. of public property namely military bases. stealing

military u.s. . bins. inciting illegal assembly for the purpose of terrorism. so i'm basically accused of beating the hell out of a couple of platoons that weapons and killing where you are alleged to be a very naughty boy. and a superman those people been doing stuff that would be impossible for. confronting the p.c.'s on my own and so on i have witnesses that the prosecution witnesses have to fight to me being in two pieces at the same time yet i'm still being investigated so i'm obviously capable of you know many superpowers but which is pretty awesome. i had a good reputation and street cred in prison you know people go to prison because they steal cars but i mean being accused of stealing. how do you think you're. particularly interested in real just the idea that they want to use courts as a tool against activists and as illegitimate do you know it's not enough to be able

to beat the hell out of them and then have to be able to keep people in fact even when they do targeted killings like we think the killings they're targeting people who are very crucial on the ground but they're not we're known so they are stuck with this you know the famous act was the limit what do you do about them and i think they are trying to build a legitimacy for using the courts against us and it keeps backfiring but the buy thing that they mean so that's why the case is still on and that's why i'm still accused maybe they'll eventually manage to tarnish my image enough and they are working on it and. i'm accused of would improve the views for instance and. which you know what's the current status what's the state of play in brain right now i was three different status in tunisia believed to have usually complete overthrow of the regime. and you have egypt and.

then you have egypt which is halfway to volution. not yet completed of me and desist and did regina's did exist then you haven't but they have if you do exist and want a king and did not get achieve anything but the revolution is this did in the process. of continuing. many people were killed in terms of percentage much more than people lost in tunisia and egypt unfortunately we had a region that would by families dictate i was. tenth of a couple of hundred years but this comes in from the worst from damage it can support from the all of these they have and from no to tennessee from people nor the knowledge to me from people but they only added things that did ruining us and we can change because nobody wants to talk about. what once the

present state of play. in egypt. will basically you know these things it was quite surprising that you know that mubarak would fall that quickly the price was high but we thought it would be much and so on so what's happening in egypt is that what we expected should happen like i mean we would have expected that. something. over a year. so that year that didn't happen with mubarak is happening with the military and people after the initial moment of thinking you know that the military might just decide to. retain its unity and status by not engaging and not to take protecting that he is actually the meat to the is the quote of the regime sort of. against. the revolutionary groups in bahrain and the people who supported these protesters it's embrace being well and all of

a true scared to act. of a friend. should i let a pathetic who's left who still be pushing forward will still a lot of people who have i mean i would be surprised or you should not be surprised to see half of the by any population coming out and want to protest it's still happening it's not happening in any of the revolution what none of that evolution we had in the history in the past fifty years you would see fifty percent of the population out in this city didn't want to protest but you would see him buying unfortunately because of the debt by the standards of many countries because of the different standards of many. channels like just. like european champions that they don't hire ideas but this is the reality why doesn't dizzier. positive in egypt do it positive in tunisia in fact i just zero with a sign for anybody who should indict a book if it does include

a bill of admission or not for just don't go to serve you should musically but but when it comes to bahrain i just you know what i'm talking about out of because you are not the english a completely doing this for the right was a symptom of do it ok the other week when there were complete silence in fact in many areas that they can decide of the government why why because they are all from the same similar ruling family and the same in the region a democracy in bahrain means it's going to have an impact of it's going to have impact and so yeah which has the added we have t.v. channel so why did saudis same troops into into bahrain that's i mean this is something the whole world has to speak out and have to condemn to what happened but we see in the invasion of saudis to my country with complete silence now the same government sending troops to leave. to fight their g.m. and now that i gave this to syria and i said which i did have to be maybe but when

it comes to bahrain they were in complete silence was always into your place where they scared. the shia activists shia in iraq spreading into saudi know because it is out of vision for what should the united states in europe have. the interest of united states for the interest of the many european countries for the autumn save for the difficult all year for due to mutual interest which many countries are seeing it has more priority than the human rights of the bodies for example disseminate united states which as good as not just for syria sitting on bahrain is that is meant by that a president to defend america the president even though you might i've gone so saying that do not talk about buying decision because biden is improving itself and doing better whether people as emboldened feel if you will what is a one man died because of guess we have daily basis people are dying it is.

fueling the really forces this is what i want to go but i've been saying this is what the americans maybe try to buy but that's not enough none of that a vision of the group did i read a cable at the time of these bahraini protests about eight months ago. and this us cable which we have published says that the bahraini government offices came into the u.s. embassy and they said look iran is behind these calls for human rights in bahrain and it is it is funneling money and weapons into the iranian resistance and then the u.s. ambassador writing back to washington said that he saw no evidence that that was true they keep claiming this is one team i mean this but he is the head and it was similar to that at least one cable that was a boat meet with one of the government agent goes down attic an embassy says that

maybe a budget is the receiving funds from the union go for them and then that medic and . that's it. not true they've got nothing to support that do you think this fear mongering about iran is that the primary reason why the west is not so imo if they want to behave in a stable as if he base and go out and they want to be very quiet instead been using . losing mubarak in egypt and going to stone he's very much you know that there was a telephone call without a fight. with obama and when it comes to behead this is that as thing the saudis want to see an evaluation on bahrain a few miles from did board them which means going to have impact because in saudi arabia that's what this into troops about to take part in declared down and getting people detaining people and did if they can. bloody crackdown would be a complete silence all from the international community. they don't want democracy

years cut out of want to promote democracy in syria and other parts of the ward but they don't want democracy and caught up and you have to go as people you have to chip what you have to share with. the government will not accept that to happen. yes i may remember. during the heat of the egyptian revolution. the head of domestic intelligence. was proposed by joseph biden by the state department by hillary clinton to be a sort of replacement figure for barc a compromise figure and we released many cables about him and his position in relation to israel and relations that i had states and being a sort of torture in chief. very quickly after it was

a parrot that was not going to succeed. you saw hillary clinton turn around and start to praise. the egyptian revolution and say that in fact the egyptian revolutions were because of two great american companies. and facebook. you must. i mean. we have to be allies that. there's a battle for the narrative. that evolution is. about ideas as much as they are about you know buddies in the streets and so on and the most improved aspect of this method of negative is to try and that is down that it would use into being about. that doesn't mean that the don't play an important role in that if they did it but the thing is if you. you

know as a side of that evolution say this is the true evolution everybody else is not. and then you play on everything you feel in class. how much people are willing to use violence to defend themselves to isolate you know what the force is from each other and so they went off with a highly educated internet connected youth lead an important role in that if we do sion and they were for the very tactical reasons they were the symbols of that it would you should because you needed who would love these so you also had this. would still like party and drugs and sex but you know you had this wonderful. you know i mean and very inspiring it's a very you feel there's no aspect of you know a fantasy about that part of. it but if you tell the story you know that's why i said what that is. and as these wonderful kids good looking well connected kids

being. then you ignoring the world because you would ignoring the bet is you ignoring how much we have to use violence in defense you know we were not thinking through the script that people outside of that it would think that it was going on . he was not just pushing to come american companies she was pushing and that it is that is designed to stop that evolution to make sure that it doesn't go deeper than mubarak. you wrote. this square is a legend of the families of modest hope to believe that the dream is the alternative to the regime if we let go of it for realistic rationally committed debates that for the right order would perish leave the experts behind and listen to the poets but we are in a revolution but go of the mind and hold on to the dream but we are in a revolution before the course and embrace of the we. revolution so we break them

out as for ideas symbols stories spectacles and dreams nothing is real but their blood nothing is guaranteed but the. best part of the revolution in egypt. has no finish the square. is the dream finished. there is no articulation of what that dream is it's certainly not. aborting the present democracy you with. your nation could go in a war. like the u.k. without the consent of the populace with. electing the president who promised hope is almost exactly the same as in a king the president who didn't promise hope as happened in the us. you know. the dream is. the dream is what makes you work and this is

easily and the dream is what makes. democracy that doesn't give rise to. street and occupy london and greek riots and so on. but it's still very much it's still very strong and it still lives there but it is not. it has not been articulated we don't have a cd we don't have it so that you see it. in moments when you can become political like i managed to do in that article the dream you see in the goofy t. and that's why it's been very much tied to the in and to the marchers i mean we don't just see them as people who died they are immortal. and it is not in their sacrifice but it is in how we see their sacrifice and how we express their sacrifice and how we keep their memory living that we touch what the dream is but i cannot tell you what it is exactly and it is in moments of battles actually that i

almost can't touch it like that when we have when we are battling the police there are always these moments of cease fires that don't last for very long i think they're usually the police are feeling the i mean ition and so on and when the police stops fighting we stop to magically. indy's moments you know you find the people the food. you've got fires all over the place because you know fires you know people have been using one of those cookies or something like that so these fires become actually like one fire people are sitting around the t.v. suddenly you know street musicians come up out of the blue and you know the people are drinking tea and singing together and so there is a modern state that we are trying to reach and we don't know what it is exactly but this is why we're having it if illusion and not just an orderly. and this is why it doesn't actually matter what the u.s. government once and what it is doing and so on because it's about something that's

much deeper and i don't know if we're going to win it this time and i don't know if we're going to win it in my lifetime but it's enough that i that i you know on an almost weekly basis that i get moments where i can almost touch it. i think was in the end of two thousand and ten with as easy. wave have started tsunami and i think it's going to have it's going to change the whole region maybe in very few years stories. going to change those small of the government in the region. which is going to reform themselves fast and those government too would resist changes i think the tsunami would move the middle move them from their seats those government in new united states or european governments who have good relations with debt interest. long strategy interests with those dictators i think

they're going to lose a lot of those government was smart enough to have a tradition with the people rather than those dictators i think those who would benefit changes i'm very optimistic that change just going to happen in our region positive changes in these moments. where there is a prison or you're in a situation of being held and. beaten. where you. have to maximize elation you do not have control of your physical space you don't have control over your body someone else has your body and you are not at liberty in the most fundamental sense of the word. what do you what do you think about. how do you try to control your feelings to see you through this i think if you have a goal if you believed and just off you go. you will come you would overcome those difficulties and you know that

changes that you are fighting for to being good four hundred years is not an easy thing to change to achieve those changes you have to be willing to pay a price and might that price might be your life and i'm sure those people hitting the movement toward that type of people who are willing to pay did live to achieve those changes. prison sucks man. and this is i mean this is my second time to be. to go to prison. and. my fight was this time that i was facing a military prosecutor than a future they couldn't eyes of the legitimacy of the military justice system and so i was sent eventually and we managed to win this major victory and i was sent to a proper measures. and then he still kept me in detention and so there was this

moment when i was completely collapsing completely collapsing and i really wanted to be out and at them the birth of my first son. and i couldn't because of that and. i collapsed and then he was born. three i was leaders my family managed to send me photos of him. and it didn't matter at that moment it just didn't matter that it would end soon so it's always being. it's always been the experience of being surrounded by love. on a very personal level but also in sort of that it's you know. i've been privileged and lucky enough that when i go to prison there's a massive massive so that if he if he would in the world and it's usually over very personal fashion did you know the support that you had only outside when you're. mostly through family visits. is an isolation that i that i wouldn't be able to

handle and it isn't being put with dangerous criminals in a really crowded cell that they wouldn't be have able to handle but if i was prevented from visits that i don't know how it be able to handle that and that's. if you're a father of two after your father of two. you tell your children to grow up to be an actress like you and be good enough to put in prison the love you don't have to tell them just by default it's going to happen and with their lead by example yeah i mean my son my daughter know each protest i just moved him from school because they would have asked the same school from the children of members of. the ruling family be. paying higher prices maybe higher

than me because i'm doing my fight and struggle and i'm ready for the reaction but they started to grown up seeing the action for a reason they didn't know why dean did house being. raided at midnight father has been removed from bed and beaten in front of their. house has been tear gassed maybe more than twenty one year. diffs seen things. children did you don't see their life but they have learnt a lot of much older than the age. old my daughter she's nine years old and my son just become fourteen years of age i mean he used to take part with mean each and every pull at this since he was five years old and my daughter she never liked the humor of our politics so nothing like that but since i was kidnapped and beaten in front of it she become an educator now. an activist and my

wife also she's very quiet woman but she's an activist i think the whole family become activists we have almost more than a thousand members. of. the family and i mean i think many often become activists know the whole nation that if you should have made the whole nation activist imagine buying government stop journalists to get into the country stop the human rights organization to get into the country but most of the people young people become journalists become human rights activists become go go to become market opportunities in fact. government of bahrain have made such a young movement which is i think we're going to benefit and the whole other world will benefit from them and their own volution as well. oh you know your son is going to grow up into the new egypt. i had just this thought that like now i

need to. bring up my son to him. in order for him to be to avoid being killed and then i remembered i named enough the. who is victim of police tortured he died and he's then mental i didn't alexandria two years ago right through the relation but he's faeces means a symbol for that if we and he did nothing there was you know there was is no way i can protect. it's there's no point in telling in raising my son. to avoid being an activist or even to be crude anything like that because it doesn't matter when you have the position the voice is. that it's going to affect you anyway you know injustice is sort and that is going to fix you and you cannot get in. you know a good life for your child unless you get into you put every other child and so. it's not in my hands i can't even do anything about it.

if you move soon from plans to transition this. means food stamps on t.v. don't come.

up russia remembers a victory day in world war two celebrations across the country and a massive military parade of course now sixty seven years on. ukraine's jailed former prime minister yulia timoshenko was moved from prison. the opposition leader had been on a hunger strike following claims that she was abused by prison guards more details to follow in just a few minutes. and the un envoy to syria warns of civilians are in danger accusing damascus of failing to curb the violence while the regime says it's facing a terror threat. it is a pleasure to have you with us here.