is is minor i mean it's just there's it's an exception to the case because these things are you know by the nature of them very problematic in last for a long time so to the extent that whatever money that we will finally get is posted to our accounts. it there's a big huge lag between the expenses and then the revenue that might come in in addition to that the. there is even though you think city attorney's office is a really huge they have a very very small finance group and i have asked in the past to get the managing wouldn't. the main attorney who basically takes care of the office if we could get a better idea on what's out there per case and i have not received that there's probably various reasons but i think one of the problems is

the size of their finance area and the fact that we are in the budget process and. they have significant challenges in balancing their budget. so we you know i do have some statistics that i can share but the. any meaning that can be attached to it is suspect because of the lag in time. so what this shows not it. the other thing is that a lot of the information regarding a case is confidential and privileged based on the city attorney's reading so i could not. give in public or to the whole commission i could provide it to the litigation committee what we're getting build on each of these cases and i do i

provide right now the spreadsheet is bigger than me if i printed out it's huge but again you know the effort that's going in a case you know how much an assistant and a city attorney and if they have some miscellaneous expenses is posted that year or any given year that we've been doing this but you don't really know it doesn't tell you. whether we're close to a resolution or not that's information that's provided to the city attorney's office. with all those caviar. we looked at from two thousand and six seven to. ten eleven because essentially all the revenues we receive is usually at the end of the year now so we don't know it's usually july or august of of the next year when they're closing

everything how much we're getting so there is we don't we don't have eleven twelve in here because that would tell you anything. so over the five years here. about nine million dollars this includes all the cost to the city attorney's office inclusive of any phone calls that may really related to getting general advice or specific advice on a case or so that that's even if we call john to ask a question about. we get our job as a community that's that's included in the billing it's not just related to or there are outside entity call or even an insight into t. calls the city attorney's office based on our case it gets billed to us so. there it shows nine million versus about five and a half million but you'll see that. they basically ramp down i think i'm

not one hundred percent sure why i think part of it was the shortage is a budget situation but. we're starting to get in two thousand and ten we're starting to get revenues that are coming in which are greater than the expenses the revenues are some some cases are are ramping up or herbs are ramping down the money's been received we're continuing to pay the city attorney for cases that you know future that may be settled in the future so. i guess to conclude i would say number one i do you receive information on a monthly basis in as a set it's usually at the end of the year by case how much money we're getting and in some cases i know how much. is going to each of the entities so i can see how much is going to the city attorney's office or being retained by this to join his office. although i don't honestly know what they do with that but i have

to trust that you know other departments are doing their job and they trust that we're doing our job. so and i know sometimes it's goes to d.p.h. and sometimes it goes to some other areas the money is not supposed to be used for a general fund issue but again that's another department other than me other than us and i guess the second thing is is that. we do you know with the litigation committee do you remain vigil on in terms of making sure that something is being done on these cases and that being i think ramped up i had to miss a couple of the meetings but i think it's being ramped up that not only is the pressure on to start certain cases as we turn them over but it's to resolve and push in many cases these people are bankrupt they don't have anything they'll never

have anything. so there's you know all sorts of reasons that their property is at the cape you know it's not being handled early on in the process we do get to the so. i think that there's always a new man out that you're going to put out to take care of these and never really get anything back but i think that i mean mr walker i think you've been consistently on the the litigation media i think that we are putting more pressure to have things resolved also just to you know in the number of cases many of these have multiple properties in it so that you have a situation where it's it's a landlord that has continuous problems in all of their different properties and what we do is really take the time to package them like the skyline properties and

there's a couple other instances now where it's their big cases because they include a lot of different properties with all of the same problems and so i think that. i think that it's i have asked to over and over again if we could get a more says singh a listing of the monies that we're spending versus the work that is being done on it in a more comprehensive way and i've gotten a commitment from the city attorney's office to provide that so hopefully it will be able to address commissioner questions and also advise the commissioners on a regular basis that aren't on the litigation committee as to what we're doing so hopefully that will happen by the next committee meeting in a couple of months that will be able to to really advise you all more about this process. if you could question about this you

know those eighty cases was split between the violations that are in housing or. in the building you see here they're usually mixed really i mean sometimes they're brought forward by housing but they include building code violations on them again it's especially in the the. residential the big buildings it is usually the housing inspectors that go in and find it but then it's building code issues it is decaying stairwells you know windows that need to be replaced and in one case there was a foundation that was removed and you know i mean there's a lot of those kind of building issues so it's it's usually a mix. so thank you this was my original request and i really appreciate the overview of where the litigation

committee is in its relationship with the city attorney i have as i had told sony when she was putting together the agenda this was not quite some i'm afraid something got lost in the translation because this is not quite what i had requested you know my request was actually one of general data in a little bit of analysis by staff both the city attorney staff and the d.b.i. staff and not so much as as where the cases all are. but what the nature is and how we deal with them so i wanted to know. you know the process by which staff sends stuff to litigation committee and then on to the city attorney which cases get prioritised and what types of cases they are so permits versus code enforcement violations and i also really wanted to know where they are are there are neighborhoods where cases get litigated more than others are there are neighborhoods where there's outstanding cases more than others and i do really

appreciate the cost analysis that pam presented. i wanted to see a little bit more of that frankly from from the city attorney not just the cost per case and how much we shell out versus get back but how long it takes in if there are some types of cases that cost us more than others in i wanted to get all this so that as a policy body we can consider the costs of litigation litigation is not the only way to resolve issues there are other types of things that we can do amnesty for code violations or any other type of. you know ways that we could as a policy body resolve some of these issues in being cognizant that there are some neighborhoods that bear the brunt of this more than other. and that it cost us as a department and that those resources get taken away from other activities so i really appreciate that the overview and the work that deborah and the sap have put

into this i would still like to request that we work on getting some data together a little bit of analysis about you know what these cases are how much they cost us and how we can do things a little differently you know i can car and if it becomes an issue where you know the information might be sensitive you know i'd recommend we do this in the kill session just to record. john ahmann from the city attorney office that's along the lines of what i would suggest i thought maybe initially maybe we could set up a meeting with the head of our code enforcement team where we would meet with you to explore the kinds of questions you want answers to and then we can make an assessment as to whether the for building inspection commission to to get this information we need to meet in closed session were there other things that could be

part of the public agenda. maybe we could. before our next i don't know if it will happen before our next meeting or the or after our next litigation committee meeting and the city attorney gives us what we requested which is more of a. sync report that can be disseminated and then we look at that and then do exactly what john said if we need to go into further detail that's good ok. any further commissioner comment. there any public comment on the site i'm. hi my name is robert davis i live in the bay view nine four one two four i was just wondering about something i didn't actually come to think about this but. i have

here a little paperwork from the d.b.i. website about a building near my house and a fourteen twelve were hundred forty nine mendell it looks like there was a complaint from. two thousand and two about illegal conversion and building use in this building went in two thousand and nine to a director's hearing notice was posted here's the information here nothing album after that so i'm just kind of wondering before we get to the. litigation committee how many open. directories hearing notices are there and where are they because here is a case like i said this came right off your website two thousand and nine it took six years or so seven years for this building to go to the director's hearing and then what happened after that. i can. say any further public comment it's

a. thing then item number seven ok can i say something about just to maybe add to what we're trying to get for a response back to the commission that this issue of open directors decisions like i know that we're trying to clean up all this stuff but that's one of the questions that more nasty is how many open notice is a violation with no resolution are there that and how do we get them resolved. ok i am number seven this question and possible action regarding a proposed date to existing administrate of well it's been a be zero nine three employment station of green building regulations to incorporate the current san francisco green building regulations and the related

local ordinances and procedures. good afternoon i'm very hooper with the department of environment green building team. one of my responsibilities is to assist the department of building inspection in the maintenance of chapter thirteen c. of the building code and. the bulletin itself the regulatory documents for its implementation. i don't have extensive presentation for you this is really just the . completion of the. process that advisory committee has referred to you for. detailing how updates to the green building ordinance that were adopted back in two thousand and ten would be. implemented on going basis so i'm here to be happy to answer questions but i'm not sure what level of detail you're really interested in

and. your time that there are any questions from the commission. director day do you have any thing to say about this this is actually correct regulations that are forwarded into our code by the green building code so they need to be put into our co-pay and follow ok this is actually something that's needed. ok we're going to take public comment on their public comment on this item. r.b.a. i'm here to express some concerns about two components of this the water retention program and the grey water programme all things in life are going to change

eventually in we're not afraid of change the problem is it's unfair to the industry and it's unfair to the department to be asked to enforce something or to be asked to implement something when nobody knows how to do it when we go down to the department of building inspection and we ask someone what are we supposed to do nobody can show us what they sin is over to the p.u.c. when we go to the p. you see nobody can show us exactly what we're supposed to to they tell us read the criteria we can read it but there's interpretations the department has some obligation and it's not necessarily this department probably the p.c.'s some obligation to give examples a sketch a diagram how do you want to see this implemented i could go down to the plumbing department tomorrow and i can ask them how do i hook up my sewer trap and if there's forty inspectors i bet thirty nine of the forty would draw it on a piece of paper for me and it would look the exact same if i ask

a similar question how do i do my water retention program or my grey water i'll get a blank stare when i go to the p.c. and i ask him a similar question they tell me to go figure it out it's not acceptable to hear from the p.u.c. to go figure it out these are affecting projects to once again we're started under one set of rules and now the rules are sort of being forced upon us in the middle of the game. it's going to happen it's not a question of if it's going to happen it's do we need to real look at how we implement this process and how we make this a smooth transaction for both the department and for the industry because we're both stuck in this we're both getting veg information from the p.s.c. . and i would ask that these two components be delayed for a couple months or something until someone can put get together and come up with

a clear program that's understandable and then i think it's reasonable to see can foresman and implementation thank you. ok yes. we have the same yeah. the matter before you today is limited to thirteen c. of the building code and while both greywater and stormwater management are green issues and there is a reference to them. the primary source of regulation of grey water is is really the building apartment interpretation of the state green building me straight state three water code and. other s.p.c. regulation so i'm really not here to be a technicals commenter on that it's not part of this particular product. the i believe the gentleman is referring to retain water retention i was probably

a reference to storm water management and this code does have some storm water management requirements that reference. the rating systems and also the state code that state building code that did begin to reference strong water management but the implementation model is is really to refer to consistently refer to the s a p c storm water design guidelines. and the most projects would need to comply with the stormwater design guidelines based on the size of the project whether or not they had or comply with the green building code so it's largely a separate matter and mostly what's remains about storm water in this storm water. post construction stormwater management in this code is just a reference to other codes that are in place in the city so that process of how to extract people informally able to comply with that code is would be another matter

for your consideration. if you could have the next but thank you next for the comment. john o'connor being again i'm going around here for two months trying to figure out the thirteen cs part of the building code is a star more management twenty twenty five percent of of the water retention and the grey water go to the plumbing department they don't know go to p. you see they don't have a clear and concise process to follow you're on an island you don't know what direction you told to hire an engineer there is there is no specifics how to implement this and the section thirteen c. is part of the bill and gordon was adapted in the two thousand and ten building code. so i would ask to continue this item and get some clear clarification have maybe plumb inspection department come over here and explain you know how we implement this if you know it's great and we all need to go this direction but the

implementation i see is a complete breakdown the policy here thank you. if there's no more public comment or close public comment commissioner that story we can ask your peer you know in a minute or so before director regard to you know policy and implementation obviously this is going to have to be you know approved at some stage but as somebody who's actually myself as well in the building it's very important we have a clear direction so we can do it right so where do you stand with regard to letting the his or somebody you could bring here from yes we don't have to we've had several presentations on greywater and stormwater here at the big but we can bring our cheap plumbing inspector back to talk about p.c.'s been here and explained it we've had presentations before this was a dark and when they both here at the same time yes ok so i somebody is

a new commissioner i would like to just because this is important and has to be implemented and it's you know it's all great we stand around in a nice warm feeling that this is a great thing the past but if we can't do it out in the field and it's causing a lot of confusion i'd like from particularly from the builders point you to have a clear roadmap and how this should be done and if we could what i what i would like to see is maybe calendar this for the next meeting we can bring the p.c. and somebody from the plumbing department and if we think of somebody else who might want to talk to this issue so they can go on test me and say unequivocally there are going to see in page in this before we pass this. certainly. i don't have any for the commissioner yeah i think i mean i i certainly appreciate that there's new commissioners on this we've been working on this for many years i'm i'm prepared to go ahead with it but. yeah out of deference to the permissions i'm happy to do that i also want to say that

a lot of these issues should be dealt with at the code advisory committee who who have expertise on this issue. we don't and we are i rely heavily on coded by story committees recommendation to us on this and in that i'm not a professional builder and they have asked us to approve this assuming they have heard the same concerns from the public so. i just you know like i said i will be happy to continue this for next month to get a little bit more and i have a request for the department also when you come back to the commission and make a presentation to us. please also take into consideration whether the code asked for a specific item like explaining how things are supposed to be built or the code reference a performance measure meaning that. the the building or the system needs to perform

so to the standard obviously performance measure is going to be more open to interpretation about how the builder are hard at design or to get the performance done i like to know how our inspector plan checkers interpret these things and say what do we tell. the the builders sort of design or do we just what you need to figure it out and make that perform to this level or do we actually give them examples to make their building perform at that level so that's a difference i mean those are two different things that are in the code you know whether it's a performance measure or an actual physical requirement that you need to provide this material or this item. i think we're going to run into the same problem going to comes to the issue as well there's going to be some some measure of we're going to be a performance level and that how do you interpret that and how do you advise people

to get to that form and see other. emotion so if there's no objection we'll continue this to call it a chair for the next meeting ok and your next call went together one of the others at this meeting. to the next meeting yeah sorry about that. so i don't so that's i don't really continue to to the next meeting thank you but i don't remember nine discussion of possible action regarding a proposed date to existing and then a straight of bullets and a.b. zero three to cite permit processing to reflect current call references d.b.i. division names and processes in place.

good afternoon commission i didn't know we have to now is when the call. this is a long overdue initiation brewton you know we we have all any site permit you know. guideline you know.