it's nine thirty here in moscow you're watching r t thank you for choosing us let's take a look at a recap of the headlines leaders of the world's top industrialized nations are throwing their weight behind greece or staying in the euro zone but speculation mounts that it's just damage control and that a very different fate is being mapped out for efforts. world leaders arrive in chicago for the nato summit in the city welcoming them with thousands of strong protests and reports of a heavy handed police reaction. and the u.s. resumes arms sales are to bahrain amid concerns they'll be used to further the crackdown on going demonstrations fueled by the ruling families plans are for unity with saudi arabia. next to we look at a controversial american academic who's

a railing against the u.s. policy of waging wars all over the globe stay tuned for that. you know the famous joke a journalist goes around them asks a russian of oh and it's really the same question he first goes to the russian excuse me what's your opinion of the meat shortage the russian says what's in the pinion. the reporter then goes to the pope excuse me what's your opinion of the meat shortage the pogos what meat. you gave goes to the israeli excuse me what's your opinion of the meat shortage is really replies what's excuse me. norman finkelstein speaks for no

one but himself and a handful of people who have such hatred for america. famous in this recent credit card should that if a person walking the streets of london telling the truth to people he could probably be killed before he met. every single member of my family on both sides was exterminated both of my parents wonder what i look i know i thrive. at it for five weeks and exactly cry from now foods my parents are missing and might simply and i will not be fighting with israel commits its crimes against the palestinians.

norman finkelstein is a professor of political science he's been at the center of numerous heated academic and political disputes the unique. who has ever managed to stifle you look at you there's a plethora of books out there the rise and fall of palestine the holocaust industry reflections on the exploitation of jewish suffering beyond what's been the. you did increase the debate hasn't been stifled it's a little. too much time has

a way in some dusty room on able to speak. today a debate and a new book called the case for israel it's by alan dershowitz who is one of the nation's foremost appellate lawyers felix frankfurter professor of law at harvard law school and why don't we start with you laying out the thesis of your latest book the case for israel well i want to write a progressive liberal case for the two state solution which i think that most israelis favor and have favored for a long time i argue in the book that no country in history faced with comparable threats both external and internal has ever tried so hard to comply with the rule of law i compare israel favorably to the united states in this regard norman

finkelstein your response i was asked to come in and discuss his new book i went home purchased one copy in fact i purchased two copies i read the book very carefully i did with what someone serious does. with the book. i read the text i went through the footnotes i went through it very carefully there's only one conclusion one can reach having read the book and this is a scholarly judgment it's not an ad hominum attack mr dershowitz has concocted a fraud. my parents were survivors of. sometimes i was afraid. because. i thought it was going to be like opening up this new skates everything is going to come out and i wouldn't be able

to handle it. did no one know. my first involvement publicly in the israel palestine conflict was the israeli invasion of loving each one to. be assistance or you know somewhere around twenty thousand palestinians. overwhelmingly civilians were killed. and so i started to read voraciously on the israel palestine country. so now i have both the event and the scholarly commitment and then obviously i'm

jewish so i have a personal commitment and the three came together. i say went back to the occupied territories during the first intifada and i went to live with a couple pounds to the families in. developed enduring relationships. norman was always a very political person even in tenth grade eleventh grade he was always very political he was probably more political than anybody that i knew with the time and we were many of us very political being being against the war in vietnam was very was that was involved that was the thing to do but norman was truly was

truly against it. you know i could understand why you weren't torn apart by what the u.s. is doing to you you have been seeing some to help you know little girls are used to my shoes being insanely from my parents i got the moral commitment but what i got from professor chomsky was a way to articulate it intellectually without losing the passion and commitment it was a way to do both when i met him. the time he was a graduate student he was a graduate student at princeton. in the middle east department working on the history zionism and at that time a book appeared in a john peters book from time immemorial which was receiving an enormous praises everywhere under it's

a lot of the reviews the greatest thing that's chocolate ice cream. the full force completely preposterous and worthless the book said that there were no palestinians in palestine until the zionists came along and made the desert bloom and then the palestinians began to arrive to palestine it was the book that was a no value whatsoever it simply recycled very old and stale israeli propaganda but it was the book that american jews wanted to have because it completely whitewashed israel. and the book was a huge success and received every accolade in america until norman finkelstein wrote

a longer view article in which he exposed the spurious scholarship behind the book and i sent out my findings to like twenty five people typed them up. and then one side or the morning i got a quote from professor chomsky you know this is noam chomsky and he said i read your findings and they saw the right to me i mean is going to be controversial in a generally it isn't but there are certain issues in certain subjects where debate can be difficult. this book in the holocaust industry and norman finkelstein in the author of welcome to you thank you for having me controversial and i can't not use words mean over

you know. i. know many things that i don't but i don't even know so that all of us i remain faithful. to the horrendous suffering of my parents yet the nazi holocaust has long ceased to be a source of a morrow or historical miten and it has become a straight out distortion racket i have full of american jews have a fact of holy how you act the nazi how the course of the last mayo europe.

these how local and tough there's have to be one of them a phone or. an anti semitism in europe as well as the main permit there is a holocaust denial i do slightly disagree with the told us was what it discusses these voters because i do feel that i remember a specially organized broome's is costly it doesn't just happen it isn't just started by volunteer. there is no avoid something like organization that could be called that. this is not about some construction of memory this is about people using

history for their political purposes. there is no new anti semitism this is pure fabrication there is a creation of a new anti semitism to serve the same purpose as was used for the past twenty years the holocaust industry to divert attention from what's being done to the palestinians so everybody's talking about the new anti semitism instead of what's being done to the palestinians and the wonderful inversion. to her israel and its supporters and to the victims and turn the palestinians and their supporters into the victimizers turning reality wholly on its head.

my grandmother did not like her because. he was afraid. and she was very cold. she felt. i was frankenstein's monster in this case finkelstein sometimes. i had taken her to literally. take it too much to heart. and. she felt i was destroying my so. david you wrote a book called the holocaust industry the whole point of the parish council to

trivialise i am not blocking the whole point of the book was to trivialize to minimalize jewish suffering that took place in the holocaust that has nothing to do with the conflicts going on in the middle east the only thing that it dies is it adds to the tension on campus he made his entire career is based on. his speech last week. so. we're going to respect i'm an old timer i know how deeply frustrating it can be when you're sitting in the audience and somebody goes on for an hour and a half saying things that you find utterly loathed some repulsive and also you

think factually incorrect and. i think i think people should have more than sixty seconds as well as live with the patience of the audience when you feel it's going on too long you know how to express your disapproval otherwise they should be allowed to go on. your speech you made a lot of references to jewish people as well as certain people in your audience not just people in general but certain people especially in your audience to not see you know this exchange when certain people. and they're also extremely offensive to people who actually suffered under nazi rule i don't respect that anymore i really don't i don't like and i don't respect the crocodile tears. for crocodile tears.

i love him to finish and i'm only here on my mind it's very very since. i live in a fair. trial. i know mike well i don't like to play before an audience the holocaust card but since now i feel ok now i feel compelled to. write my farmer well figure out. i really. shallow i. write primarily one thing out. my mate my bro where from mike i'm a guy from places where. every single member of my family i my family my. i my when i was young. ok yes the father was at auschwitz concentration throughout my my mother was in my prime concentration camp every

single member of my family on both sides was exterminated both of my parents wonder why foreshadow of rising. profile and exactly the crux of the refuse my parents taught me and my proof simply that i will not be silent when israel commits its crimes against the palestinians i consider nothing more openness. to you vera from her and i am very rather going to try to justify not work you're not brutal was very human become a member of my for the job right it is real very clear it's against the flow through me and so i reply you know i do longer could be him a day or browbeaten by my peers if you had you know you would be crying

for the palestinians yes. norman finkelstein is a classic anti-semite. invokes the oldest stereotypes against the jews if he were not a jew that is she i don't think he is a jew he is as someone once put it he's jewish only on his parents' side. if he were not a jewish person or a person of jewish heritage with a name like finkelstein nobody would have any doubt that he was an anti-semite it's gone me because he's jewish sometimes i feel that it's suffocating to be suddenly a jew hating you good to be critical of israel. many israelis are critical of israeli policies many israelis are. anti zionist even i have no problem with people challenging and critiquing zionism israel israeli policy i would never call a person who merely did that anti-semitic what pincus name does goes well beyond

that. thank. you israel question whatever you feel about the justice or injustice of the establishment of the state of israel whatever you think about that that's a historical question there is not a current political question all of the palestinians are the palestinians and hobbled to their self their term in the nation there are two people living in doubt land one people have the full rights of statehood in any percent of the land and the people who occupied that land for several thousand years consecutively are being there not their right to self-determination in twenty percent of their

homeland thank you thank you. i don't entirely agree with the previous speaker. this isn't the israeli palestinian conflict you see the israeli palestinian front all the out of this whole conflict the wall street journal general school down the hill goes to pakistan. to do a story on islamic extremists he has kidnapped now they kidnapped him because he was an american journalist of the overview sleep like all american jews was he must be a cia agent. but also kidnapped him they discovered the whole world school was a jew. and as

a matter of fact technically speaking an israeli they go so so i did about it. but i made him confess on camera. speaking to video camera cops not unlike this one forced him to confess on camera i am a jew the son of a jew us and then they slit his throat. the people who did that have not been stopped it is really checked for people do that probably never saw an israeli. no matter what the roots of this call it. we've evolved into a situation in which a large segments of the world. tali well in the western world in the seventy's it was almost vanished in this classical size large sections of the world and fifty in fact it is something that's almost indistinguishable from to satisfy the entire world community say between one in six states depending on the vote the entire

world community believes that the palestinians should have their right to self-determination in twenty percent of their homeland his real and united states are denying them that right it's as simple as that and you can drag in that conservatism the holocaust daniel pearl and everything else but it can't change the fundamental facts the fundamental facts are these the entire world community supports a two state settlement along the june one thousand nine hundred sixty seven borders israel the united states the chief rejectionists in the world are opposed to it. many issues with mr finkelstein's position but chief among them is his notion that really this cut this situation which has persisted in the middle east for decades really comes down to something very simple it's all the fault of the israelis but i think there are a number of reasons that could explain this for instance popularity with those individuals who support the palestinian side of the middle east question first is

with. a well read and their take to it spokesperson of their cause said in the fall and i have to really be quite candid here the fact of the matter is that norman finkelstein is a member of the jewish community and have a member of the jewish community speak out against the state of israel because his words a certain cachet that a non jew or a palestinian spokesperson. would simply would not have. to say of course were about israel. let's be clear about one thing in my view as a release have the right to be there they have the right exercise self-determination in. what's his star power stein i have no question in my mind about that

and i have many friends who live there many people who i deeply respect i have no interest whatsoever in playing this game of bashing israel that's not my thing but but allow me the blood for those of you who are snickering but just as it would be shameful shameful for any german during world war two to give a lecture singing the praises of germany and just as during the us war in vietnam for me to sing the praises of the us. amid the harbor and amid the suffering i'm not going to sing the praises of israel when the war is over when palestinians have equal rights when there is justice there i'm very happy to join along with everybody in singing israel's accomplishments and criticizing its faults but not

while and when it's torturing the palestinian i thank you on. this final question. for you this is my wish. wish you can sleep. here. we do have the problem but every time and effort is may on the palestinian or the europeans. to negotiate and to the violent attacks against israel which i have no fear at all calling terrorist so long as you have no fear calling the leader of the state of israel one of the main terrorists in the world very thought.

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