top stories now this hour here on r.t. president putin has arrived in paris on the last leg of his european tour just a few hours ago in berlin putin and german chancellor merkel to prevent syria sliding into civil war. the u.n. warns that its envoys peace plan for syria must be observed or the country could reach the point of no return it was a call for an investigation into the killing of more than one hundred people in houla last week saying it may amount to crimes against humanity. i don't least six people are injured in northern kosovo as nato peacekeepers fire tear gas and rubber bullets in protest as the serbs try to prevent the removal of the barricades they set up last year on the border. that's what is for the moment here on our t.v.

up next date is cross talk where peter lavelle and his guest discuss the presidential election runoff in egypt and what people there might make of the results. and you can. follow and welcome to crossfire can you tell about a revolution misunderstood soon egyptians will go to the polls to democratically elected president but what about the choice is this a contest pitting the military against islam is this election in other changes in the arab middle east living up to the hopes and aspirations of the arab spring.

and. to cross-talk what's next for the arab revolutions i'm joined by greg roman in tel aviv he is the director of development at the global research in international affairs center at the interdisciplinary center in cairo we have avi sapir oh he is a journalist and writer and in austin we cross to michael brenner he is a professor of international relations at the university of texas all right gentlemen crosstalk rose in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i mean if i go to you first in cairo how would you describe the choice to gyptian is have when it comes to the presidential election well first of all thanks for having me you know a lot of people see it as a difficult choice between now islam as and the remnants of the old regime but at the same time there's a lot of optimism that at least the democratic process has begin to work and. you know there's a large segment of society that is excited by both candidates. yes although he is

a member of the old regime there are a lot of a lot of people who seeks debility in the coming in the coming years and they see as a viable option and when it comes to morsi the muslim brotherhood has a wide base of support in the country and they've been you know a key component of the transition process and you know they were able to mobilize a large segment of society to vote for them and in both the parliamentary and presidential elections so i mean although you know hardcore revolutionaries and. time disappointed by these choices you know i don't think it's time yet to call the egyptian revolution failed over ok michael if i go to you in austin people are excited about the democratic process or either candidates democrats in your mind. well the democrats for the time being whether they have political democracy in the d.n.a. is quite another matter. from washington vantage point at this stage

you know into thinking about the arab spring and the revolutionary changes in arab societies certainly the obama administration's sort of primary concerns less about realizing democratic ideals then they are. you know hopefully seeing these stable regimes unstable regimes that would be friendly to the united states and friendly those would express itself in terms of agreeing with the basic outline of american foreign policy in the region rather than what's happening internally ok great do you think the egyptian people are going to disappoint washington. i don't think it's so much about the egyptian people disappointing washington but what the elected leadership will do in order to deal with the military now we see in egypt two states one where you have the political institutions which are being elected right now and the power of the presidency and the power of the parliament still haven't been defined yet we're going to still go

through a constitutional process but on the other hand what a lot of people are talking about is the results of what will happen to the tonto we supreme council of armed forces now and the egyptian military they don't just exist as the body that the fens egypt but they also exist with the full economic structure the independence that they have in their ability to be able to dictate economic policy and as long as the elected official whoever ends up winning whether she'll think or marci appeases the needs of the military then consequentially i think then the american administration who usually deals with the military on these matters and not so much the elected leadership will be the one who have to deal with the washington relations ok i mean where do you store all of the military after the election in your mind i mean i think this is the question that everyone really wants and wants the answer to is they are they going to eventually withdraw from the political sphere and as we just heard i mean they're deeply embedded in the economy when you have something it's pretty hard to give it up. yeah i mean that's that's the that's the big question going forward i mean you know as greg

mentioned egypt's military is embedded in society in a very deep deep fashion they have some people estimate they have control of as much as forty percent of the egyptian economy on top of that you know they've been they've been serving as the sole sole source of real power in the country over the last year and a half so you know people are really concerned about egypt and the willingness to return to the barracks and more important that you know if the gyptian military will ever subordinate subordinate itself to civilian control and that's really an open question at this point but over the last year and a half the military has indicated it is not willing to do that it's floated a couple of constitutional documents and principles sort of outlining where where they see their role in the country even after a presidential election and to be honest it doesn't look good they see themselves as above civilian control they see their budget is outside of the scrutiny of the civilian parliament and at this point you know it's unclear if there's going to be a strong enough elected mandate or

a strong enough civilian leadership to really question that you know power base and people here in egypt are really concerned about that i mean if i can explain with you do you think that we could see revolution two point zero if the military doesn't make an exit is from power. i mean it depends on what you mean by that you know over the last year and a half there's been a lot of street protests in this country and there's a serious fatigue setting in you know a lot of people's friends have died a lot of people have you know seen some horrible things on the streets of cairo and you know the willingness for people to take to the streets again it's a really difficult thing to do but that being said you know a lot of people sacrificed a lot to bring the mubarak regime down and to see it replaced by an old general from the old regime or you know that's something that would rub people here the wrong way i don't want to. go interrupting cross talk for the moment because with the top story this on our

team president putin meeting he is in french cut off or so on and paris moving held private talks about the situation in syria and economic ties between russia and france and they are now today but it is yours that's what you have to say that country is. so. quickly you've got. a very good you well you konami it was a commercial relationship and the skull to see if you say you're going to do is this it will be seated by the economic and you international council to discuss this is a look at your trade and we want to give fresh impetus to it. what i thought would be on again relations between our two countries is. there will be a visit to my visit to russia after these meetings that i have mentioned

all of that but we also analyzed together a number of issues the main challenges such as fighting nuclear proliferation and also iran we. share the same view and we have a similar approach the same approach after a relative disappointment. happened in baghdad during the meeting between the six and iran. to. get concessions to obtain the concessions that didn't happen there will be a meeting in moscow that should this time result in iran. making a real effort for transparency and to renounce your. nuclear weapon with

russia and france well the. pressure to achieve that result prove. we cannot accept that i cannot accept that a country. nuclear weapons and nuclear technology is one thing but using it for military purposes stabilize the region is something we cannot if you accept. north korea we have a similar analysis. and that is fighting nuclear proliferation and we also want balance in the world who want stability in the world and so we discussed. nuclear. we also discussed you've got a. serious political team up with. recalled my position. and

that is that the bashar al assad. regime demand year you know has paved. and unacceptable and dollar able ways that they have committed. disqualify them and. that said us young there is only one exit from the situation and that. pertain this will be that this is through the un resolution. as the first stage the annan plan have been pursued. and. she should be given all the means to succeed in his mission one of also then observers do their work then the political process should be established a second stage making it possible for syria to achieve security and stability.

if we want. to share the sanctions there should be pressure. i also know that there are risks to stabilization with. civil war in syria with all the consequences. news of war. we also discussed a number on which we agree specific goals at least to the negotiations that should resume security of israel. palestinians. many of those matter is now only promises can work together and have common ground i wanted also in particular to emphasize relations between our two countries and our little response ability to find

a political solution to number of conflicts this is the essence of this meeting will be followed by others and the meeting of ministers prime minister throughout the year two thousand and twelve i know that. was in a hurry here. that is waiting for him. questions not to many and if it can't answer a question. like. for start i would like to think mr president for his invitation. mr president has any merit in fact. every issue that we have discussed he left nothing to me nothing for me to comment on. apart from. the fact that we discussed. each of these issues in much detail. both of our

bilateral relations and international issues security issues the only thing my french. is now is the missile defense issue that we have also discussed. i have to tell you that on many issues when you mine we seem to have an understanding at least we are capable of listening to one another and hearing what we're saying if you know you and i believe that. to go in accordance with our longstanding tradition we are capable of negotiating and dealing with france and coming to terms on many issues including some very complex ones our conversation was open and candid. and what you would have its level it was going to be very friendly for which i'm.

thankful to mr president when i see you. not only did we discuss. an opportunity of mr president visiting russia but i but i actually invited him with them and we hope to see him in the near future and now you're welcome to ask a question. without thinking you know what. news agency i have a question for both presidents both about mr putin you mentioned that you discussed the european missile defense system during the negotiation and i would like to hear your take on the outcome of this discussion you know whether there is any progress especially with regard to the recent nato summit in chicago. but is there any progress on this track or is it still

a frozen issue. well we can reach much progress on missile defense was. talking to a single nato ally we know believe french attitude. that. they have a consolidated stance within the alliance but we believe that a lot of decisions if we were taken in by nato with without. and with no attention paid to russian interests and to russia's position. as for is this issue is concerned i can tell you that france is one of the very few countries . you know who actually listen to us and hear what we're saying and we hope that as a nato member state and also as a as a nuclear power france understands that brush is

a legitimate concerns and we hope that with their help we'll be able to. find a common ground with the entire alliance because we have heard on many occasions that the missile defense the early nato missile defense is not directed against russia. while in the like we would like to. be and technological tease embodied in a legally binding document in addition to these purely political statements however well meaning they are only in that case you will be able to have some meaningful dialogue with before the time we have only been hearing the same response to. whatever concerns we might voice. we're being told he should not worry we're not going to use the system against you. we have heard a lot of spoken promises. at various points in history we have been promised that

nato. not exactly and then we were promised that nato would not place its military facilities. around russia but we have seen the alliance expand since then and we have seen. military bases sprout. along our perimeter now i'm going to we need. words or words but if you think we'll go with them you know this is childish. and i would like to retreat and i can tell you and all your other colleagues we're not going to escalate this discussion but we've already told our american partners in our european partners we are inviting you to engage in dialogue and it seems to me from my discussions with them mr president that such dialogue with france and with other nato states is possible.

sure that. part of the fourth. or up brought up with the piece or she could go on the recording. that they felt sorry i spoke about the conditions in chicago that i believe are necessary in order to go ahead with missile defense and one of these questions is dialogue president putin's russia question president. use sanctions un sanctions do you think other than sanctions after a year in meetings that have been able to. persuade to go ahead but the sanctions that have been do you think. an agreement. about these sanctions how much time to give to the annan plan to find a way out of this crisis thank you with. what mr rahman is a very experienced. professional and also

a view decent person. and we must do everything in our capacity to ensure that his mission is successful then a long run i think it would be counterproductive to. claim in advance that his mission will be unsuccessful i think this would be a mistake as far as sanctions are concerned i think that such measures should be primarily discussed within the framework of the u.n. security council. as you probably know. when you think sanctions are not always efficient. at the most important thing we need to do is prevent the worst case scenario prevent a civil war in syria. but we discussed it at length today but in the end i conveyed russia's position to mr president because on this issue you know we have . to keep they have our consultations and mutual effort.

about reconciliation in syria and resolve all the issues with political means. sure. let me show has the and we agree. and. conclusion. make it possible is observer what is the objective and that is the presence of the servers and. for them to conclusions findings about what happened and. what has unfortunately been happening particularly on the part of the regime and their political solution i believe. that the sanctions are part of the necessary pressure. pressure. to move

a little solution but as the political solution to. the goal. the yellow political solution requires dialogue and transition. to more. i have a question to the russian president. on that. he wouldn't. be forthcoming to paris today. with. your friends in germany or russia. within the european union of the heart but i have somewhat questions but you know which of these two nations is more significant to russia. and i have a second question that this is the first time you are meeting the newly elected french president but what is the first impression that mr lyon has made on you.

indeed that is confusing and provoking of question you're right about that. both germany and france which. are longstanding partners in national. or mutually. periods that it's obvious that both germany and france are russia's strategic partners. these relationships pretty much it is not a coincidence that. visiting. in one day speaking of economic cooperation. the power turnover with france is twenty eight billion dollars and seventy two with germany you can see the difference for yourself. we invested.

six billion dollars in german economy that is a russian business and germany has invested something like twenty nine the billion in russia. whereas we have invested a five point six billion in germany whereas in france we've only invested a hundred in forty eight million so far but. now you can see for yourself whether our economic cooperation actually matches our potential but you know obviously it doesn't win but we have good prospects and we discussed it we have discussed it with mr president today. as the cooperation between french and russia with regard to economy. is characterized by. potential with regard to really kind of the sector is

a little bit. we discussed. trading in energy and what i want. to go to what about in electric power production is that we have. we're ready to operate with them in. we also cooperate in aircraft production with france airspace production. we have is way into fourteen space launches out of. well this is a. vast amount of cooperation. we also have great prospects with regard to. your vessel production and if we. took hope we can actually achieve even more impressive results but as you have probably noticed. we took our time. negotiating

we had. a very deep and campaigns of discussion and i'm sure that we will have. which income for a very productive and efficient partnership but at least not very comfortable discussing these issues with mr president even when we were discussing some controversial issues. that his friends question. request. just. steps toward political solution what would you discuss with him. what would be the political. solution to the. syria and what would it take to. reach an agreement. to reach

a conclusion to the adams land. you know we have a long standing relations with syria but when i hear that russia has some special interest in syria i can tell you. this is a delusion. we don't have the span of economic cooperation or military cooperation with syria the only thing we're concerned is that as far as serious concerned is. a senior you know where the situation could get radicalized and where we violence could spin out of control. civilians there is on top of that we are discussing you know the recent tragedy in a township. in syria where some fourteen or fifteen people were killed today when they actually were tortured and usually in the works you must know this is the only story that the media around the world has on the. but how many civilians have perished at the hands of these so-called militants in syria have you ever

looked at that body counts national also number is in one hundred eighty on the company our goal. bring national each and every party to this conflict to. reconciliate these we don't they just think we're not using so i would like to take care of everybody who's like to bring about political solutions to force here as the chair she has for us that i can tell you he has visited paris much more frequently than moscow and it was more than. well maybe this is the way we should look at this issue. to leave did you because you don't ask for a visit to. the forests father and son are concerned. i have no responsibility and that. time. era for young analysis we share this analysis there is

a risk of civil war and i don't know with strife in syria the move where we put that we have perspective also may be common and that is nearly twenty one political solution yesterday that should prevail where we might all have different differing that cannot exist that's on the responsibility and on the departure of your boss your ass. i believe. this is a precondition for a political transition which are. probably more i think we should also mention too that we listen to asian in other countries of the region what is going on in iraq or libya or other countries in the middle east so let them be the you. have to become safer.