mission to teach me. as president. to continue. the country's. security.

given the. explosive show the world. who wants to change within a peaceful and running. time julian assange. yes yes. it is true of wiki leaks expose the world

secrets these documents belong the united states government being attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemn it said quote after quote people illegally shoot five hundred days now i being detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us. today we are on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. from humble origins my next guest iran come because i'm a household name as captain of pakistan's victorious cricket team he then left sports and launched his movement for justice party in the most dangerous political environment on a. four years can anti corruption party was ignored in two thousand and seven us state department cables referred to him as pakistan's one man party. but pakistan is changing fast over the last two years widespread anger over u.s.

drone strikes and corrupt political dynasties has proven millions to his cause i want to know why is he now front runner to be the next leader of pakistan. to you. i'm all right i have a bit of a cold but i think that's a good thing because my voice is a bit sexier than normal and i have to go basically. everything just to get what you want everybody just well i think you are interesting time is a bit more interesting than my just in time. i saw these videos of your rallies last night so i think this is great but i worry you're going to get blown up. so i hope your interesting time doesn't get any more into this didn't you go to go sometimes yeah the second of those are some of them just. like i mean i was you know when i saw this guy's hospital so i used to see you but it got me going and six months later they were gone so i have

a completely different attitude to life and you're not around for long so you might as well make the most of it if. you don't realize that you're back to. the wiki leaks mid not just. let me let me pour you a merry go broken up for some reason where we've just lost you for a minute ok you're you're back again. back to middle of the world but by the sun the with the exploded all of these two faces one additions you know who was sucking up to the marriage in the insane. and brave and telling them how great they were. you know sucking up to them and public giving completely opposite state it was a rare specialty this one religious is this guy. who was declaring leads this religious logic and he literally doing the medic and he said look if you back me to

become the prime minister i do whatever i want to do. and he's considered the most anti american politician and so he was it was a. it really exposed a lot of. how iran can you describe what what are the big power factions in pakistan is the i.s.i. the army is the supreme court the old families how would you describe the basic power structure of pakistan. well the babylon five just sign just like in the middle east is above us just fall and trans-jordan status for what you call the boss tractor benefited from the system and the majority of the population want to change it so what do you see in the middle east his exact numbers but as the west looks upon muslim societies at this some war would be fundamentalist and liberals islam and fundamentalists are birds actually and this is really the divided up in

the muslim world which is why everyone looks surprised by the arab spring and by is the one with the following i have been are is the symptom of the same people who are going to go to the middle east people want to get james and decided to squabble now what does this do just one focused on we have political muffy else all of the political parties have not got it together against me so they have sort of the this is a desert this is a good some of them got this is a good sign is it iran that if people are gathering around to oppose you very very must be scared. oh maybe five because the last time by the sun we saw red is as big as the doing to god one and. a lot and one was forty years ago was the go you would do the five don't be uneasy and when that these sort of the numbers don't know you swept the election he just went and he was

an underdog and the statistical bodies. so that's what we're going skin we research the wiki leaks cables from islamabad to see what they said about you and in two thousand and seven the us ambassador said. who's p.t.i. party is effectively a one man show has little to lose his credibility rests in his so created role as a politician he sticks to his principles and he's popular with the pakistani intelligence here and elements of diaspora but has never been able to turn his starring role as captain of pakistan's only team to really win the international cricket championship into an effective political party that's obviously changed now what's happened in the last few months with julian what happened was the. media. from above two thousand and five on words we suddenly had.

the friesian of independent television jones. the most. the most watched programs begin to fair programs so today if you watch the television it's like having read jeremy backs one don't give you you have. these these guys have become a billion moves like terry virts and you will have one on the mean one of all the journals and. where you would for instance have a big brother in england or some sort of grew up here don't even want to watch it don't interfere programs. such as the desire. to understand the political situation of people's such as the interest that they are diamond did they have the highest viewership it's what's happened in the past six months i mean there's really been a tremendous rise the opinion polls that i've read have your popular support at

something between sixty to eighty percent. of the pakistani population perhaps you can describe this. how your party has grown in size and momentum and what's it like in you for you trying to manage this incredibly fast growing organization was full of what go to elections in two thousand and eight. because you know these elect the elections bug manipulated by the bush administration they grew to deal between we share and businesses with all of the corruption cases book and not only the other look at politicians they were given an amnesty by a shot and this was the deal brokered by the americans and it was the n.r.o. all national reconciliation ordinance so in the name of freedom solution the americans got i was sheriff and been sued together and got all these are

a case in the latest book drive with due dates above that whole bush get we're about on the back when she got them together and sort of. so sort of so i and along with a lot of the by just why go to the election. because we've for the supposedly boring. for a while wake up and go on because we stood up and actions and then as the governments began to mess up because once the criminals came to buy our corruption broke all records and biased nationally because when you have a lot of big government to close and such as the way it was doug remembering that i want everyone to know is what got in the election that this election is a disease it's going to be a disaster for the people of bias the one it's only meant for the bush administration to have the public one who. was sure of was struggling so you would

like to go they wanted another puppet government so they could pursue this war on terror without a lot of armed was going on in europe and still. whatever i was saying and went through the roof the war on terror was has been devastated by this for a because forty thousand by this time is a big get in a war we have nothing to do we're up busy our own army killing on people and then get it then doing suicide notes on the box that is evidence and the cost of seventy billion dollars of this war totally it has been less than twenty billion so all i was able of these things and secondly was. it just resonated with people and almost two years ago my gut grass started going up as though says the big bad and the who wanted to go see those genes. we are seeing not politicians rushing to me so people who are electable is realizing that the war although not belongs to me

and i'm going to do and i heard that even even musharaff tried to say to you. you you pm me president. well there you see bush or. does not understand what's happening in pakistan because he's outside is all over you know politics is on the face but he doesn't realize that on the ground based on the situation is is completely different number one can be the biggest liability to get a light but number two he's responsible for the mess he's responsible for this is a record corruption because he's the one who give them amnesty the good of the good of the new order in the world goodness given amnesty and that outcome just elections again and then getting the bomb on and secondly this war on terror so he's responsible if you look at say the soviet union which also had

a lot of corruption for people said well that. well at least the black market is a market. so you're going to have some kind of trading it helps you get around regulations which are impeding business. what is the problem with corruption in pakistan why is why is corruption bad for pakistan just to give you know the statistics then you're not going to i am history of sixty years the total debt you may lead by bikes don is about five trillion in just four years the debt has gone up from problems by politically. so we had. do to service our debts so if not of one point eight trillion. debt servicing is eight hundred billion harvard goes to debt service and six hundred billion goes to before the army how many did million people have two hundred million could be

used as a liberal so clearly the ganges and why and so on and is of rush hour they could still go on in gears and. we're looking at the atlas we're really looking at. us going down the drain the country is heading towards complete chaos we don't have money to don't run the country and at the moment load shedding we don't have money to buy and you do. not buy our generation so because we get a lot of buy food for a pardon or slow the government are there's almost fourteen hours of no shipping there's no electricity for fourteen hours a day. and and the corruption in pakistan the tax evasion is one thing but the the stealing of money from the treasury how much of that ends

are back in pakistan i just taking from the poor the middle class and transferring it to the rich in pakistan versus how much of the money is taken out of pakistan and stashed into london banks or stashed into swiss banks or u.s. companies. so do things number one because we do not have money to be here for to get finest oil for our generation the country is having no option in this electricity for fourteen to fifteen hours and indeed eighteen hours in the rural areas. that i mean the farmers don't run they're. the birds to water their crops that means factories and industries are closing down there because there's a massive unemployment only of inflation so that's one aspect of corruption the second is it that most of this money ends up and this was a chance of the dog was not the only political leader in the middest

money are excited by this don and i have everything in by you stand in mine and apart from more particularly this head of political bodies there have banned guns and brought their properties abroad and this is not declared so of this money most of this money and that the country let's move on to the us. tell me about this assassination of osama bin laden in pakistan what was the feeling in pakistan to the i.s.i. it was hiding this hour bin lot of that there in confidence why. was a solid bin laden in pakistan and you know what you must understand is that some of bin laden was trained by the bias and cia. did lot of adam were trained by the cia and i.s.i. about twenty years back so this is this is these people were assets of by this time

on. they would really by the by just an army and the i.s.i. financed by this yeah but they were fighting the soviets and for a long time these groups had big association with the most unsecured agencies no suddenly comes no new member and you do a lot of the leading degrees does i mean we showed us that hundley to be stolen. but it didn't mean that all along the way people would have accepted this because here what people are trained for jihad our job and this is in this just means by doing the foreign occupation so our people who can miss them having indoctrinating not only. these militant groups but also your need and sees that they're fighting a war and occupation is it is a religious duty a right some subset of the i.s.i. some people perhaps who are dealt with him in the past who are still loyal as goes

people who would have thought that if i do another foreign occupation which is now the worst is also as it is today of course if it's possible as it is there a feeling that the u.s. is helping our clean out militants in pakistan or is there a feeling that it's a violation of pakistani sovereignty and this was the the under twenty leadership. it is a gun free which is a i don't know the most about thirty five thousand people dead fighting and there are those four. and as i said the country of last fall or in terms of when do you last was then the aid given to us and the government was the figure to seventy billion dollars is going to be debated so this war isn't going to the supposed to be second posing for the worse and they're not and i did not trust us and actually game and kill someone on our own soil it wasn't that at all factors combined in the second phase and secondly as an end i would give my view for it and

so forget about what the government on i'm done with the people of the country who didn't know what was going on because it. was the hours that i was being accused the only way to have kept them or europe all by the way because of this is either the environment or in goods but what about the people so good that there was a definitive in there was a very strong reaction born of the feeling of humiliation and to do think that you know that the us argue that so and bin laden is a terrorist responsible for the deaths of many americans so they have a right to go in and take him out i'm saying is the. war on terror as the law is some of the confusion is that you win a war on terror by bombs and. you know killing people actually war on terror is one when you win hearts and minds of people if you lose the war this is that that is

the where this is going to end i don't buy just on his war radicalised did that it was eight years back by this time and this one race it's a polarized society than it was here two years ago whatever we do military this is not a solution we have. we did it for eight years the americans have failed for eleven years but what are we going to do not just different and as i understand said madness is doing this if you go over and over again and expecting a different result it's not going to happen there's no military solution only ways political solution by just the bottom the political solution we do not have what it just means look you will all get a bit of both so you need elections a good bit of government hope for the osce we'll start a political dialogue help the americans in an exit strategy from understand it this is the one we are all those. we discovered

a cable in two thousand and nine from the islamabad embassy. the prime minister of. interior minister mal ak went into the embassy and offered to share. that is the voting record system for voters in pakistan and a front company was set up in the united kingdom international identity services. which was hired as the consultant on that drug to squirrel out. the. all of pakistan its it seems to me that is a theft of some national treasure of pakistan the entire pakistani database registry office people. judy it's

so shameful. you know never has a country's ruling elite for personal benefits never had to betray to people as much as this elite and it would show up in the gutter elite. not only have that done as they have been darkest number of people who have disappeared by. on suspicion of terrorism they were biased i mean these people from by just any sort of handle would do the americans on this mission of of. them being involved in some terrorist and people have to sit people that in the minute it suspects up and limited to troop drawdowns. and not only suspects their wives the children the neighbors and of an agent never has there been any wording in what these people are innocent or not new country has ever been one and as we are being moments country as i said is the bullshit bit of my history never has

a country that willingly betrayed its people saw the light at the start intruding a need for buster benefits because all of them about comes across their money laying abroad and guess what the americans go on about guns they do believe on the sofa not from me how how would you reconfigure their pakistan relationship with the united states were going to be a complete severance what would you commit drone strikes what kind of intelligence cooperation what would you do in practice. and have a relationship based on the dignity self-respect. so it should be a relationship like the u.s. as with india it should not be a relationship with moscow and lucia tippett and even worse the bystanders are higher than the beer to. kill americans and it is it's not it's of relationship

that is feed it's loaded over to the people above is done nor is it delivered to the americans the only thing that you that the americans should we do all is that look there will be a good there isn't one but you can only do that if you lower the perceived to be a student of the americans or you going to be a problem get and then deal with terrorists or at the moment the terrorists or the militants have declared jihad against my views on government so that given your songs and on and on and up with these guys say that these are people out to something americans so the woman should pull out of this war this jobs the will of the jock those we then against are sifting through the end of me this is it within our borders and then only can we get into that it will be don't desert from us and so therefore number one step has to be pulled out as a lot more worried we become

a sovereign independent state and the relationship with the us should be of dignity and self-respect no longer the. last relationship you know your you give a good description of how the war on terror in pakistan has been counterproductive it's created in the mideast towards the pakistani government thirty five thousand to forty five thousand pakistanis have lost their lives why do you think the united states pursues. its agenda its during drone strikes in pakistan if if the us ambassador even is writing back saying that it's counterproductive what is the driving forces from the us. well julian i think it's because the the just like us the policy in us is being driven by a big tick and it's the this is the army would produce blows because the lead military people always think of military solutions if you look at it here and you

listen to i believe it was a general magnum are of someone i just remember a lot of dough and him well they're all saying we're back in there it's just that we've done the corner we're about to win the war but few moment a few more moments and this would do the trick so the generals always think like that. one final question iran. have you met a.q. . and what do you think about the father of the pakistani nuclear bomb. i've made a clone of you know. a lot of pieces in a couple of years back but i'm going to for twenty years because he'd give the first edition to when i started billing against the hospital he was the one going forward first. here's a hero he's is. here washington by just done because if i was in the news of the

one it was someone would give us security in other words. the same reason given by the israelis that they needed the bomb because this owner. hostile neighbors is ascendant by the sun before she was with india which is seven times the size of my guest on and there's a lot of the security in the country and this is a guy who's supposed to have secured us so from their point of view he's here washington biased on what i think of him i don't really know who was in more of this proliferation knowing that the ones of you why don't. you know by the americans and we share over the others into my room service say look you know great to. give all evidence that i never was along those no i don't really know of the it budget on television that it was avoided but he said he was forced by oneself to do that so i don't really know the truth behind it julian buzz only i

am and you hear i don't know diddly. for the world it has gotten you know a nuclear bombs. but at the moment there's the where the situation is. people will i don't hear this ever since we've had quite a bit of weapons even though there's been a lot of attention we've come across but there has been no war would be focused on india and before the nuclear weapon there were three wars so the people will argue from their point of view ok. thank you very much to i wish you all the best because i think you. what to do with what we could be freedom of information is the most important thing because we are always to be controlled. by people with information this is video and as i said i'm the biggest beneficiary there's going to be these look feels would have just been to the mission. we would never amount to johnson of coming. so do you think the little bits thank you good

luck. please please please please please please please. please please please please please accept such and such. lines in russia would be so much brighter if you knew all about sound from files to question inside. means fun stuff.