the world's top when. asked for political asylum in ecuador is currently in the latin american republic's embassy in london ecuador is currently deciding whether to grant the wiki leaks chief's request it says it has informed the british government about the matter on the supreme court granted his extradition to sweden at the end of may when he's wanted on sexual assault charges he's been under house arrest for over five hundred days during which time he's been making an interview program for r.t. . well next sanchez back here on r.t. with his controversial program and this time the wiki leaks interviews a man who wants to change pakistan from within and bring about a peaceful end to the long running afghan war i'll be back with more news and often are. you know who's she good leverage or a meteor in the kirby was able to build the world's most sophisticated robot which

all unfortunately doesn't give a darn about anything tim's mission to teach music creation why it should care about humans and we're going this is why you should care what you're only on dot com. i am truly in a song that's just saying. it is true when he wakes expose the world secrets these jackets belong united states government being attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemn the said quote after quote he broke the law illegally shoot five hundred days now i've been detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us . today we're on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. from humble origins my next guest imran khan became a household name as captain of pakistan's victorious cricket team he then left sports and launched his movement for justice party in the most dangerous political

environment on a. four years can anti corruption party was ignored in two thousand and seven us state department cables referred to him as pakistan's one man party. but pakistan is changing fast over the last two years widespread anger over u.s. drone strikes and corrupt political dynasties has proven millions to his cause i want to know why is he now front runner to be the next leader of pakistan. hi julian. i'm all right i have a bit of a cold but i think that's a good thing because my voice is a bit sexier than normal and i have to go basically. i don't because having interesting as it were to everybody just today well i think your interesting time is a bit more interesting than my interesting time i saw these videos of your rallies last night so i think this is great but i worry you're going to get blowed up. so i

hope your interesting time doesn't get any more into this didn't you go to go sometime yeah the seven of those are some of them just. like i mean i was you know when i saw this guy's hospital so i used to see you but it got me going in six months later they were gone so i have a completely different attitude to life and you're not around for long so you might as well make the most of it. you don't realize that you're back to. the wiki leaks mid not just. let me let me pour you a rare broken off for some reason where we're just lost you for a minute ok you're you're back again. back the middle of the world but by the sun the with the exposed all of these two faces one additions you know who was sucking up to the marriage in the same. drive and telling them how great they were.

you know sucking up to them and public giving completely opposites to it was a rare specially this one really just this guy. who was a cleric leads this religious logic and he literally drawn the americans who said look if you badly need to become the prime minister i do whatever i want to do. and he's considered the most anti american politician so he was it was a. it really exposed a lot of people who. know him around can you describe what what are the big power factions in pakistan is the i.s.i. the army is the supreme court of the old families how would you describe the basic power structure of pakistan. well the babylon five just sign just like in the middle east is above a statistical and trans-jordan status for what you call the boss structure

benefitted from the system and the majority of the population want to be james so what you see in the middle east is exact numbers but as the west looks upon muslim societies and there's some war we want to be a fundamentalist and liberals islam and fundamentalists are birds actually and this is really the divided up in the muslim world which is why everyone looks surprised by the arab spring and by is the one with the following i have been are is the sin by the same people who are going to go to the middle east people want to get james and tested to school now what does this do just one focused on we have a political mark else all of the political parties have not got it together against being so they have sort of the this is a desert this is a good some of them got this is a good sign is that iran that if people are gathering around to oppose you very very must be scared. oh maybe five because the last time and by

the sun we saw red is as big as the doing to god one of. the lot and one of the grudge was forty years ago buzzers ago you would do the father don't be uneasy and when that's these sort of the numbers don't know you swept the election he just went and he was an underdog and the stooges school buddies a lot of work so that's what counts good we researched the wiki leaks cables from islamabad to see what they said about you and in two thousand and seven the us ambassador said. who's p.t.i. party is effectively a one man show has little to lose his credibility rests in his so created role as a politician he sticks to his principles and he's popular with the pakistani intelligence here and elements of diaspora but has never been able to turn his starring role as captain of pakistan's only team to really win the international cricket championship into an effective political party that's obviously changed now

what's happened in the last few months when julian what happened was that. the media. from hostile fire on words we certainly. appreciate independent television jones. the most. the most watched programs begin to fail programs so the today if you watch the television it's like having read jeremy bash one i don't give you you have. these these guys have become one with me and moves like jury votes and you will have one on the mean one of all the journals and. where you would for instance have a big brother in england or some sort of rug here don't even want to watch it and

a few programs. such as the desire. to understand the political situation of people such as the interest that they are growing to him and then they have the highest viewership it's what's happened in the past six months i mean there's really been a tremendous rise the opinion polls by bread have your popular support at something between sixty to eighty percent. of the pakistani population perhaps you can describe this. how your party has grown in size and momentum and what's it like in europe for you trying to manage this incredibly fast growing organization was full of what go to elections in two thousand and eight. because you know these elect the elections bug manipulated by the bush administration big group to deal between with cher and been received with all of the corruption cases

blood and not only the other crooked politicians they were given an amnesty by a shark and this was the deal brokered by the americans and it was the end not all nationally can see this ordinance so in the name of reagan solution the americans got it was sheriff and been sued together and got all these are a case in the latest book drive with due dates above that whole bushkill were about on the back when she got them together and some of. the suits so i and along with the lot of the by just boycotted the election. because we've for the supposedly boring. for a while wake up and down because we stood up and actions and then as the governments began to mess up because once the guerrillas came by our corruption broke all records and biased nationally because when you have a lot of crime big crime multiplies and such as the way it was doug remembering

that i want everyone to know is what got in the election that this election is a disease that is going to be a disaster for the people of bias the one it's only meant for the bush administration to have one who. was sure it was struggling so you would like to go both they wanted another puppet government so they could pursue this war on terror without a lot of arms bombing on europe and still so whatever i was saying and went through the roof the war on terror was has been devastated by this for a because forty thousand by this time is a big get in a war we have nothing to do we're up busy our own army killing on eleven and then get it then doing suicide attacks on folks that is evidence and. the cost of seventy billion dollars of this war totally has been less than twenty billion so all i was able in these things and secondly it was. just as an agent with the big

and almost two years ago mike the graph started going up as though says the bigger the want to go see those jeans we are seeing not politicians rushing to me so people who are electable is realizing that the war although not belongs to me and i'm going to do and i heard that even even musharaff tried to say to you. you you pm me president. well there you see bush or. does not understand what's happening in pakistan because he's outside is all over you know politics is on the face book he doesn't realize that on the ground and by just on the situation is is completely different number one can be the biggest like ability to get a life but number two he's responsible for the mess he's responsible for this is

a record corruption because he's the one who give them amnesty the good of the good of the new order in the world i've given is given amnesty and that are going to just elections again and then get into bomb and secondly this war on terror so he's responsible if you look at say the soviet union which also had a lot of corruption there people said well that. well at least the black market is a market. so you're going to have some kind of trading it helps you get around regulations which are impeding business. what is the problem with corruption in pakistan why is why is corruption bad for pakistan just to give you know the statistics then i and i am history of sixty years the total debt if you milledge it by bikes don is about five trillion in just four years the debt has gone up from problems by politically. so we had.

to do to service our debts so out of one point eight trillion. debt servicing is eight hundred billion harvard goes to debt service and six hundred billion goes to before the army how do they need to million people have two hundred billion to be used as a liberal so clearly the ganges and wind so that in itself russia could still go on and years of my son we are looking at the atlas we are looking at. us going down the drain the country is heading towards complete chaos we don't have money to don't run the country and at the moment load shedding we don't have money to buy and you do. not buy our generation because we get a lot of buy food for a pardon or slow the government are there's almost fourteen hours notice you do

there's no electricity for fourteen hours a day. and the corruption in pakistan the tax evasion is one thing but the the stealing of money from the treasury how much of that ends up back in pakistan i was just taking from the poor the middle class and transferring it to the rich in pakistan versus how much of the money is taken out of pakistan and stashed into london banks or stashed into swiss banks or u.s. companies. so two things number one because we do not have a minute here for to get finest oil for our generation the country does have ignored shipping this electricity for fourteen to fifteen hours and it did eighteen hours in the rural areas. that means the farmers don't run they're. the do birds

to water their crops that means factories and industries are closing down there because there's a massive unemployment only of inflation so that's one aspect of corruption the second it was sort of this money ends up and this was the guns of the dog wasn't the only political leader in the middest money are slightly biased on and i have everything in by you stand in line and apart from more particularly this political bodies there have been accounts of brought their properties abroad and this is not declared so of this money most of this body ends up outside the country but let's move on to the us. tell me about this assassination of osama bin laden in pakistan what was the feeling in pakistan that the i.s.i. was hiding this i would get a lot of that there in confidence why. was

a sorry bin laden in pakistan and you know what you must understand is that some of been not there was trained by the i.s.i. and cia. did warlow i don't dream by the cia and i.s.i. about twenty years back so this is this is these people work assets of the biased i know. they would really by the biased and i mean the i.s.i. financed by the cia or but they were fighting the soviets and for a long time these groups had a big close association with the most unsecured agencies now suddenly comes no new labor and you do a lot of the leading degrees does i mean we showed us a hundred to be stolen. but it didn't mean that all along the way people would have accepted this because here what people are trained for jihad our job and this is in this just means fighting the foreign occupation so obviously the can miss them having indoctrinating not only. these militant groups but also your own intensities

that they're fighting foreign occupation is it is a religious duty play right some subset of the i.s.i. some people perhaps who are dealt with him in the past who are still loyal as goes people who would have thought that if i do another foreign occupation which is now the worst is also religious duty of course if it's possible as it is there a feeling that the u.s. is helping our clean out militants in pakistan or is there a feeling that it's a violation of pakistani sovereignty and this was the ultimate humiliation. it was a gun free which is a bad omen to most about thirty five thousand people dead fighting and there are those. and as i said the country had lost far. in terms of what you lost those then the gate given to us and the government was the figure

to seventy billion dollars in order to be debated so this war isn't going to the supposed to be second facing for the worse and then out and i did not trust us and actually game and kill someone on our own soil it wasn't that all factors combined in the sacrifice and secondly as an end i would be above your friend and so forget about what the government on i'm done with the people of the country who didn't know what was going on because it. was the as it was being accused the only way to get them or all by the way because of this is either the involvement or in goods but what about the people so good that there was a definitive in there was a very strong reaction born of feeling of humiliation and do think that you know that the us argue that so and bin laden is a terrorist responsible for the deaths of many americans so they have

a right to go in and take him out i'm saying is the. war on terror as the lord is some of the confusion as the to win the war on terror by bombs and. you know killing actually war on terror is one when you win hearts and minds of people if you lose the war this is that there is the word this is going to end i knew by this time as well radicalized did that it was eight years back by this time and this little corner is today it's a polarized society that it was here two years ago whatever we do military this is not the solution we have. for eight years the americans if in for eleven years but what are we going to do now which is different and as i understand said madness is doing this if you go over and over again and expecting a different result it's not going to happen there's no military solution only way is political solution by just the bottom the political solution we do not have

politicians look you will all get a bit of both so you need elections go to build a government of hope for the osce we'll start a political dialogue help the americans in an exit strategy from the understand this is the one we are honest. we discovered a cable in two thousand and nine from the islamabad embassy. prime minister and interior minister mal ak went into the embassy and offered to share. that is the voting record system for voters in pakistan and a front company was set up in the united kingdom international identity services. which was hired as the consultant for maduro to squirrel out. the.

all of pakistan its it seems to me that there is a theft of some national treasure of pakistan the entire pakistani database registry office people. julian its social. you know never has a country's ruling elite for personal benefits never had betrayed the people as much as this elite and it was shut up and the currently. not only have done as they have been darkest number of people who have disappeared by this time. on suspicion of terrorism there were biased i mean these people from by just any sort of handle were to the americans on a business mission of of. them being involved in some terrorists and people have disappeared. people that did it when it suspects up and limited to troop drawdowns

and not only suspect their wives the children that it was a bit of an agent never has it been any working in one of these people innocent or not new country has ever been it's one and as we are being moments country as i said is the bullshit bit of my history never has a country that willingly betrayed its people saw the light at the start unfolding in egypt and saw buster benefits because all of them about comes across their money laying abroad and guess what the americans go on about guns they do believe on the sofa not from you know how how would you reconfigure their pakistan relationship with the united states we're going to be a complete severance what would you commit drone strikes what kind of intelligence cooperation of what what would you do in practice.

have a relationship based on the dignity self-respect. so it should be a relationship like the u.s. as with india it should not be a relationship with master lucian to put anyone worth their focus on as a hired gun big bill to. kill americans and it is it's not good solutions it that is feed it's loaded delivered to the people above his son nor has it delivered to the americans the only thing that the americans should be doorless that look there will be blood there is a promise but you can only do that if you loan the perceive to be a student of the americans or you're going to be a problem get and then deal with terrorists or at the moment the generous of the militants have declared jihad against bugs on government so they are given a song that on and on and up with these guys say that this is a pullout is something americans so the woman should pull out of this war this jobs

the will of the juggalos we need then against our sifting through the end of the this is it within our borders and then only can be gotten to that it will be don't generate them from us and so therefore number one step has to be pulled out it was a lot newer reading we become a sovereign independent state and the relationship with the us should be of dignity and self-respect no longer the. last relationship you know your you give a good description of how the war on terror in pakistan has been counterproductive it's created in the miti towards the pakistani government thirty five thousand to forty five thousand pakistanis have lost their lives why do you think the united states pursues. its agenda its during drone strikes in pakistan if if the us ambassador even is writing back saying that it's counterproductive what is the driving forces from the us. well julian i think it's because the

the just like us the policy in us is being driven by a big tick and it's the this is the army would produce clothes because only the military people always think of military solutions if you look at it here and you listen to i think it was a general magnum r r r i just remember a lot of dough and him well they're all saying we're back and it's just that we've done the corner we're about to win the war of a few moment and a few more moments and this will do the trick so the generals always think like that. one final question iran. have you met a.q. . and what do you think about the father of the pakistani nuclear bomb. i've made a clone of you know. there's a lot of pieces in the book of

a couple of years back but. one of the twenty years because he'd give the first edition to when i started building the guns hospital he was the one going forward first. here's a hero his is. here washington by the sun because if i was in the news of the one it was someone there was security in other words of the same piece and given by the israelis that they needed the bomb because they're surrounded by. hostile neighbors is ascendant by the sun before she was with india which is seven times the size of my guest on and there's a lot of the security in the country and this is a guy who's supposed to have secured us so from their point of view he's a hero worship and likeness of what i think of him i don't really nor was he in war and this is a proliferation known that to ones of you why don't. you know by the americans and we share over the others into my room so that we're seeing the logo ready to.

give all i want is that i never was a lot of those no i didn't really know of it but it on television that it was avoided but he said he was forced by oneself to do that so i don't really know the truth behind it julian buzz only i am and you hear i don't know diddly. for a word of it which has gotten you know a nuclear bombs. but at the moment there's the where the situation is. people will i don't hear this ever since we've had white nuclear weapons even though there's been a lot of tension we've come close but there has been no war would be focused on india and before the nuclear weapon there were three wars so the people will argue from that point of view ok. thank you very much to i wish you all the best because i think you. i don't agree what to do with. freedom which is the rules to

war because we are basically drove. by people who are going to wish. this is video and that's it i'm the biggest beneficiary there's going to be these look feels would have just. like we would never amount to just. so do you think the little bits think you are a good luck. click click click click. click click click such a. day children play war in the old case me.

but in june nine hundred forty one these walls were the first barrier for the nazi troops on their way to moscow and. funders of breast cancers were dying one by one under seize the sun. wander. down the last shelter an unnamed soldier left a few simple words farewell motherland i'm dying but i'm not surrendering. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know.