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when i was joined sanjay is back on r t with his explosive show this time that we call your interviews a man who wants to change pakistan from within and bring about a peaceful and to the long running afghan war stay with r.t. for more. i'm julian assange. that is true of wiki leaks expose the world secrets these documents long united states government being attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemn us going after white people illegally shoot five hundred days now i've being detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us . today we're on

a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. from humble origins my next guest imran khan became a household name as captain of pakistan's victorious cricket team he then left sports and launched his movement for justice party in the most dangerous political environment on a. four years can anti corruption party was ignored in two thousand and seven us state department cables referred to him as pakistan's one man party. but pakistan is changing fast over the last two years widespread anger over u.s. drone strikes and corrupt political dynasties has proven millions to his cause i want to know why is he now front runner to be the next leader of pakistan. do you really. i'm all right i have a bit of a cold but i think that's a good thing because my voice is

a bit sexier than normal and i have to go basically. just to sit with you everybody just well i think you know interesting time is a bit more interesting than my interesting time i saw these videos of your rallies last night so i think this is great but i worry you're going to get blowed up so. so i hope your interesting time doesn't get any more into this judy we're going to go sometime yeah the second of those are some of them just. like i mean i was you know when i saw this guy's hospital so i used to see. you but i'm going in six months later they were gone so i have a completely different attitude to life and you're not around for long so you might as well make the most of it. you don't realize that you're back to. the wiki leaks mid not just. let me let me pour you a rare broken up for some reason where we're just lost you for

a minute ok you're you're back again. back to middle of the word but by the sun the with the exploded all of these two faces politicians you know who was sucking up to the marriage in the same. private telling them how great they were. you know sucking up to them and public giving completely opposites to it was a rare specially this one really just this guy. who was declaring leads this religious logic and he literally during the american they said look if you badly need to become the prime minister i would never want to do that and he's considered the most anti american politician and so he was it was a. it really exposed a lot of people who are. now in iran can you describe what what are the big power factions in pakistan is the i.s.i.

the army is the supreme court the old families how would you describe the basic power structure of pakistan. well the babylon five just sign just like in the middle east is above a statistical and then storm status for what you call the boss structure benefiting from the system and the majority of the population want to be change so what do you see in the middle east is exactly because the it is the west looks upon muslim societies and there's some war going on within fundamentalist and liberals islam and fundamentalists they're brothers actually and this is really the divided up in the muslim world which is why everyone looks surprised by the arab spring and by is the one with the following i have been are is the same mother same people who are going to go to the middle east people want to get james and just it just for them and now what does this do just one focused on we have political mafia else all of the political parties have not got together against being so they have sort of the

this is a desert this is a good some of them got this is a good sign is that iran that if people are gathering around to oppose you very very must be scared. oh maybe five because the last time by the sun we saw red is as big as the doing to god one of. the lot and one was forty years ago was the go you would do the five don't be uneasy and when that these sort of the numbers don't know you swept the election he just went and he was an underdog and the stooges fight is a lot of work so that's what the courts give we researched the wiki leaks cables from islamabad to see what they said about you and in two thousand and seven the us ambassador said. whose p.t.i. party is effectively a one man show has little to lose his credibility rests in his so created role as

a politician he sticks to his principles and he's popular with the pakistani intelligence here and elements of diaspora but has never been able to turn his starring role as captain of pakistan's only team to really win the international cricket championship into an effective political party that's obviously changed now what's happened in the last few months with julian what happened was that. media. from hostile fire on words we suddenly had. the friesian of independent television jones. the most. the most watched programs begin to fail programs so the today if you watch the television it's like having read jeremy bags one don't give you

you have. these these guys have become a billion makers like terry virts and you will have one on the mean one of all the journals and. where you would for instance have a big brother in england or some sort of grew up here don't even want to watch it and a few programs. such as the desire. to understand the political situation of people such as the interest that they are diamond there they have the highest viewership it's what's happened in the past six months i mean there's really been a tremendous rise the opinion polls by bread have your popular support at something between sixty to eighty percent. of the pakistani population perhaps you can describe this. how your party has grown in size and momentum and what's it like in the for you trying to manage this incredibly fast growing

organization was full of what go to elections in two thousand and eight. because you know these elect the elections bug manipulated by the bush administration big group to do you begin with cher and bill this is with all of the corruption cases work and not only the other look at politicians they were given an amnesty by a shark and this was the deal brokered by the americans and it was the end not all national reconciliation ordinance so in the name of reagan solution. the americans got it was sheriff and been sued together and got all these are a case in the latest book drive with due dates above that whole bushkill were about on the back when she got them together and sort of. sort of sulfide and along with a lot of the by just boycotted the election. because we've for the supposedly boring. for

a while wake up and go on because we stood up and actions and then as the governments began to mess up because once the guerrillas came to buy our corruption broke all records and biased nationally because when you were allowed to big government to close and serve as the way it was doug remembering that i want everyone to know is what got in the election that this election is a disease that is going to be a disaster for the people of bias the one it's only meant for the bush administration to have one who. was sure it was struggling so you would like to go there wanted another puppet government so they could pursue this war on terror without a lot of our members blowing on europe and still other so whatever i was saying and went to the roof the war on terror was has been devastated by this alone for the biggest for two thousand and one because that is a big get in a war we have nothing to do we're up busy our own army killing on eleven and then

get it then doing suicide attacks on the folks that is evidence and. the cost of seventy billion dollars of this war totally it has been less than twenty billion so all i was able of these things and secondly it was. just resonated with people and almost two years ago my gut grass started going up as though says the big bad and the who wanted to go see this james. we are seeing our politicians rushing to me so people who are electable is realizing that the war although not belongs to me and i'm going to do and i heard it even even musharaff tried to say to you. you you pm me president. well there you see bush or. does not understand what's happening in pakistan

because he's outside is all over you know politics is on the face but he doesn't realize that on the ground the biggest on the situation is is completely different number one he'll be the biggest liability to get a life but number two he's responsible for the mess he's responsible for this is a record of corruption because he's the one who get the ministry the goodwill of the lord in the world of goodness given amnesty and that outcome just elections again and get him to bomb on and secondly this war on terror so he's responsible if you look at say the soviet union which also had a lot of corruption the people said well that. while at least the black market is a market. so you're going to have some kind of trading it helps you get around regulations which are impeding business. what is the problem with corruption in pakistan why is why is corruption bad for pakistan just to give you know the

statistics that enough and i am history of sixty years the total debt if you milledge it by bikes don is about five trillion in just four years the debt has gone up from problems by politically. so we had. to to service our debts so out of one point eight trillion. debt servicing is eight hundred billion harvard goes to debt service and six hundred billion goes to before the army how do they leave the million people who have two hundred million to be used as a livable so clearly the ganges on my own so that in itself russia could still go on and years of my son we're looking at the atlas we're looking at. us going down the drain the country is heading towards complete chaos

we don't have the money to the run the country and at the moment load shedding we don't have money to buy and you do. not buy our generation because we get a lot of buy food for a pardon or slow the government. there's almost fourteen hours notice that there's no electricity for fourteen hours a day. and and the corruption in pakistan the tax evasion is one thing but the the stealing of money from the treasury how much of that ends up back in pakistan i just taking from the poor the middle class and transferring it to the rich in pakistan versus how much of the money is taken out of pakistan and stashed into london banks or stashed into swiss banks or u.s. companies. so two things number one because we do not have a minute before to get finest oil for our generation the country does have ignored

shipping this electricity for fourteen to fifteen hours and it did eighteen hours in the rural areas. that we in the fight was done wrong there. the jubilee was to water their crops that means factories and industries are closing down there because there's a massive unemployment on and off inflation so that's one aspect of corruption the second is that it was sort of this money ends up and this was about guns. the dog was on the bully political leader in the middest money are slightly biased on and i have everything in by you stand in line and apart from the more particularly this head of political bodies there have banned guns and brought their properties abroad and this is not declared so of this money most of this money and of that the country let's move on to the u.s.

. tell me about this assassination of osama bin laden in pakistan what was the feeling in pakistan to the i.s.i. it was hiding this i would get a lot of that there in confidence why. was a solid bin laden in pakistan and you know what you must understand is that some of the not there was trained by the i.s.i. and cia. did warlow adam was created by the cia and i.s.i. about twenty years back so this is this is these people were assets of by this time are. they would really by the by just an army and the i.s.i. financed by the cia or but they were fighting the soviets and for a long time these groups had a very close association with the most unsecured agencies now suddenly comes no new member and you do under the leading degrees does i mean we shadowed us at home with

you to be stolen. but it didn't mean that all along the way people would have accepted this because here what people train for jihad our job and this is in this just means by doing the foreign occupation so obviously to convince them having indoctrinating not only. these militant groups but also your own intimacies that they're fighting for an occupation is it is a religious duty very very some subset of the i.s.i. some people perhaps who are dealt with him in the past who are still loyal as goes people who would have thought of that why do you need another foreign occupation which is now the worst is also a religious duty of course if it's possible as it is there a feeling that the u.s. is helping our clean out militants in pakistan or is there a feeling that it's a violation of pakistani sovereignty and this was the ultimate you believe. it is

a country which has a dome and most about thirty five thousand people dead fighting america's war. and as i said the country had lost far. in terms of what do you lost those then the gate given to us and the government was the figure to seventy billion dollars in order for it to begin so this war isn't going to the supposed to be second posting for the worse and then out and i do not trust us and actually game and kill someone on our own soil it wasn't that at all factors combined in the second place and secondly it isn't and i would be above you for it and so look forget about what the government on i'm done with the people of the country who didn't know what was going on because it. was the as it was being accused the only way to get them or europe all by the way because of this is either the involvement

or in goods but what about the people so good that there was a definitive in there was a very strong reaction born of the feeling of humiliation and to do think that you know that the us argued that so and bin laden is a terrorist responsible for the deaths of many americans so they have a right to go in and take him out i'm saying is the. war on terror is the law is somehow the confusion is that to win a war on terror by bombs and. you know killing people actually war on terror is one when you win hearts and minds of people if you lose that war this is that that is the where this is going to end i knew by just one as well radicalized did that it was eight years back by this time in this little corner as to it's a polarized society than it was here two years ago whatever we do military this is not a solution we have. for eight years the americans it failed for eleven years but what

are we going to do now which is different and as i understand said madness is doing this if you go over and over again and expecting a different result it's not going to happen there's no military solution only ways but it will solution by just the bottom the bottom to the solution we do not have politicians work you will all get a bit of both so you need elections a good bit of government hope for the osce we'll start a political dialogue help the americans in an exit strategy from the new start this is the one we are all those. we discovered a cable in two thousand and nine from the islamabad embassy. prime minister of. interior minister mal ak went into the embassy and offered to share. that is the

voting record system for voters in pakistan and a front company was set up in the united kingdom of international identity services . which was hired as the consultants on that drive to squirrel out. the. all of pakistan its it seems to me that is a theft of some national treasure of pakistan the entire pakistani database registry office people. judy it's so shameful. you know never has a country's ruling elite for personal benefits never had betrayed the people as much as this elite and it was shut up and the currently. not only have they done as they have been darkest number of people who have disappeared by. on suspicion of

terrorism they were biased on people from biased and sort of handed over to the americans on this mission of of. them being involved in some terrorists and people have just been people that in a minute it suspects up and limited to troop drawdowns and not only suspect their wives the children it was a deliberate it never has it been any wording in one of these people innocent or not new country has ever been one and as we are being moments to entry as i said is the bullshit bit of my history never has a country that willingly betrayed its people saw the light at the start intruding elite and for personal benefits because a lot of them about comes across their money laying abroad and guess what the americans go on about guns they do believe on the sofa not from you how

how would you reconfigure their pakistan relationship with the united states were going to be a complete severance what would you commit drone strikes what kind of intelligence cooperation what would you do in practice. and have a relationship based on the dignity self-deception. so it should be a relationship like the u.s. as with india it should not be a relationship with moscow lucia to anyone was there but instead as a hired gun big bill to. kill america's enemies it's not it's a licious ship that is feed it's now delivered to the people above his son nor has it delivered to the americans the only thing that you that the americans should be doorless that look there will be blood there is a promise but you can only do that if you loan the perceive to be a student of demands or you going to be

a problem get and then deal with terrorists or add on the generous of the militants have declared jihad against bugs on government so they are given a song as an r. and r. and up with these guys say that this is a pull out and do something americans so the woman should get out of this war this jobs the will of the job goes we need then against our sifting through the end of me this is it within our borders and then only can be got into that it will be not generous and from us and so therefore the number one step has to be pulled out it was a lot laurie we become a sovereign independent state and the relationship with the us should be of dignity and self-respect no longer. lost relationship you know your you give a good description of how the war on terror in pakistan has been counterproductive it's created in the miti towards the pakistani government thirty five thousand to

forty five thousand pakistanis have lost their lives why do you think the united states pursues. its agenda its during drone strikes in pakistan if if the us ambassador even is writing back saying that it's counterproductive what is the driving forces from the us. well julian i think it's because the the just like us the policy in us is being driven by a budget and it's the this is the army would produce blows because the lead military people always think of military solutions if you look at it here and you know this is true i think was a general magnum r r r i just remember a lot of dough and him well they're all saying we're back in there it's just that we've done the corner we're about to win the war a few moments a few more moments and this will do the trick so gentle is what i was thinking like that. one final question iran. have you met.

and what do you think about the father of the pakistani nuclear bomb. i've made a clone of you know. there's not a recently but a couple of years back but. one of the twenty years because he'd give the first edition to when i started billing against the hospital he was the one going forward first. hears a hero is is. here washington biased on because if i was in the news of the one it was someone give us security in other words. the same reason given by the israelis that they needed the bomb because they're surrounded by a. hostile neighbors is ascendant by the sun before she was with india which is seven times the size of my guest on and there's a lot of insecurity in the country and this is

a guy who's supposed to have secured us so from their point of view he's a hero worship and like. what i think of him by doing pretty normal was in war and this is a proliferation of the good ones of you why don't. you know by the americans and we share over the others an igloo i'm still seeing that logo ready to. give all i want is that i never was a lot of those not i didn't really know if it bit it on television that it was avoided but he said he was forced by oneself to do that so i don't really know the truth behind it julian buzz only i am and you hear i don't know diddly. for the world it has gotten you know a nuclear bombs. but at the moment there's the where the situation is. people will live on here this ever since we've had acquired nuclear weapons even though there's been a lot of attention we've come across but there has been no war would be focused on

india and before the nuclear weapon there were three wars so the people will argue from that point of view ok. thank you very much to i wish you all the best because i think you. don't agree what to do with. freedom of information is the rules to order because we are basically drove. by people who live information this is video and that's it i'm the biggest beneficiary there's going to be these look seals would have just been through vision. like we would never have i just of going to borrow books so do you think the little bits thank you good luck. six. weeks such a. culture

is that so much going on there's a huge musician trying to market kicking the can down the road this is how many see the recent negotiations in moscow regarding iran's nuclear program are the western powers local. business meeting on the global scale. hundreds of deals billions in investment. the international economic forum in st petersburg on party. wealthy british style said it's not surprising. markets.