program here. amid mounting tensions over. the president. and the mainstream media. with. held in the country.

with the program his newest explosive exclusive. i'm julian assange but that's just saying. it is true of wiki leaks expose the world secrets these documents belong the united states government being attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemn the said quote after quote people all illegally shoot five hundred days now i being detained without charge but that hasn't stopped us. today we are on a quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. from humble origins my next guest imran khan became a household name as captain of pakistan's victorious cricket team he then left

sports and launched his movement for justice party in the most dangerous political environment on a. for years can anticorruption party was ignored in two thousand and seven us state department cables referred to him as pakistan's one man party. but pakistan is changing fast over the last two years widespread anger over u.s. drone strikes and corrupt political dynasties has proven millions to his cause i want to know why is he now front runner to be the next leader of pakistan. julian. i'm all right i have a bit of a cold but i think that's a good thing because my voice is a bit sexier than normal and i have to go basically. to get everything just to sit with you everybody just well i think you know interesting time is a bit more interesting than my interesting time i saw these videos of your rallies

last night so i think this is great but i worry you're going to get blowed up. so i hope your interesting time doesn't get any more you. didn't even notice. yeah this isn't some of them just. like i mean i was you know when i saw this guy's hospital so i used to see. going in six months later they were gone so i have a completely different attitude to life and you're not around for long so you might as well make the most of it. you don't realize that you're back to. the wiki leaks mid not just. let me let me pours you a merry go broken up for some reason where we're just lost you for a minute like a you're you're back again. back to middle of the world but by the sun the with the exploded all of these two faces one additions you know who was sucking up to the

marriage insane. and brave and telling them how great they were. you know sucking up to them and public giving completely opposites to it was a rare specially this one really just this guy. who was declaring leads this religious logic and he literally doing the americans he said look if you back me to become the prime minister i do whatever i want to do. and he's considered the most anti american politician and so he was it was a. it really exposed a lot of. how iran can you describe what what are the big power factions in pakistan is the i.s.i. the army is the supreme court the old families how would you describe the basic power structure of pakistan. well the babyland by cosigning just like in the middle east is

a buffer state just full and then storm status for what you call the boss structure benefiting from the system under which already a population want to be james so what do you see in the middle east his exact numbers but as the west looks upon muslim societies and there's some war going on within fundamentalist and liberals islam and fundamentalists their brothers actually and this is really the divided up in the muslim world which is why everyone looks surprised by the arab spring and by is the one with the following i have been are is the sin by the same people who are going to go to the middle east people want to get jameson and tested just for the now what does this do just one focused on with the political mafia else all of the political parties have not got together against being so they have sort of the this is a desert this is a good side of the gulf this is a good sign is it iran that if people are gathering around to oppose you very very must be scared. oh maybe five because the last time and by the

sun we saw her at least as big as the doing to god one of. the lot and one of the guy she was forty years ago was the girl you would do the father don't be uneasy and when that's these sort of the numbers don't know you swept the election he just went and he was an underdog and the statistical bodies. so that's why difficult skin we researched the wiki leaks cables from islamabad to see what they said about you and in two thousand and seven the us ambassador said. who's p.t.i. party is effectively a one man show has little to lose his credibility rests in he's so creative role as a politician he sticks to his principles and he's popular with the pakistani intelligence here and elements of diaspora but has never been able to turn his starring role as captain of pakistan's only team to really win the international

cricket championship into an effective political party that's obviously changed now what's happened in the last few months with julian what happened was the. media. from hostile fire on words we suddenly had. the friesian of independent deliberation jones. the most. the most watched programs begin to fail programs so the today if you watch the television it's like having read jeremy bags one don't sweat the give you have. these these guys become a billion moves like jury votes and you will have one on the mean one of all the journals and. where you would for instance have a big brother in england or some sort of grew up here don't even want to watch

don't interfere programs. such as the desire. to understand the political situation of the bills such as the interest that the diamond did they have the highest viewership it's a what's happened in the past six months i mean there's really been a tremendous rise the opinion polls that i bred have your popular support at something between sixty to eighty percent. of the pakistani population perhaps you can describe this. how your party has grown in size and momentum and what's it like in you for you to try to manage this incredibly fast growing organization was full of what go to elections in two thousand and eight. because you know these elect the elections bug manipulated by the bush administration big group to deal between we share and businesses with all of the corruption cases book

and not only the other book at politicians they were given an amnesty by a shell and this was the deal brokered by the americans and it was the end not all nationally can see this ordinance so in the middle of reading solution the americans got i was sheriff and been is you together and got all these are a case in the latest book drive with due dates above that whole bush get we're about on the back when she got them together and sort of. sort of sulfide and along with a lot of the by just why go to the election. because we for the supposedly boring. for a while wake up and go on because we stood up and actions and then as the governments began to mess up because once the guerrillas came by our corruption broke all records and biased nationally because when you have

a lot of crime big crime multiplies and such as the way it was doug remembering that i want everyone to know is what got in the election that this election is a disease it's going to be a disaster for the people of bias the one it's only meant for the bush administration to have a puppet wonder who. was sure it was struggling so you would like to go they wanted another puppet government so they could pursue this war on terror without a lot of armed was going on there and saw. whatever i was saying and went through the roof the war on terror was has been devastated by this alone for a because forty thousand by this time is a big get in a war we have nothing to do we're up busy our own army killing on people and then get it then doing suicide notes on the us that is evidence and the cost of seventy billion dollars of this war totally has been less than twenty billion so

all i was able of these things and secondly it was. just resonated with the beeb and almost two years ago mike the graph started going up as though says the bigger the would have to be seen as james. we are seeing not all additions rushing to me so people who are electable is realizing that the war banner not belongs to me and i'm going to do and i heard that even even musharaff tried to say to you. you you pm me president. well there you see bush or. does not understand what's happening in pakistan because he's outside is all over you know politics is on the face of he doesn't realize that on the ground based on the situation is is completely different number one can be the biggest liability to get allied to the number two he's responsible

for the mess he's responsible for this is a record corruption because he's the one who give them amnesty the good of the good of the new order in the world goodness given amnesty and that are going to just elections again and then good luck on that and secondly there's more on the other cities responsible if you look at say the soviet union which also had a lot of corruption but people said well that. well at least the black market is a market. so you're going to have some kind of trading it helps you get around regulations which are impeding business. what is the problem with corruption in pakistan why is why is corruption bad for pakistan just to give you know the statistics then i and i am history of sixty years the total debt if you milledge it by bikes don is about five trillion in just four years the debt has gone up from problems by politically. so we had.

to to service our debts so out of one point eight trillion. debt servicing is eight hundred billion harvard goes to debt service and six hundred billion goes to before the army how do they need to million people have two hundred billion to be used as a liberal so clearly the ganges and wind so that in itself russia could still go on in gears and. we're looking at the atlas we are looking at. us going down the drain the country is heading towards complete chaos we don't have money to the run the country and at the moment load shedding we don't have money to buy and you do. not buy our generation so that because we get

a lot of buy food for up large initial of the government going on there's almost fourteen hours notice you there's no electricity for fourteen hours a day. and the corruption in pakistan the tax evasion is one thing but the the stealing of money from the treasury how much of that ends are back in pakistan i just taking from the poor the middle class and transferring it to the rich in pakistan versus how much of the money is taken out of pakistan and stashed into london banks or stashed into swiss banks or u.s. companies. so two things number one because we do not have money to bear for to get finest oil for our generation the country does have ignored shipping there's little electricity for fourteen to fifteen hours and it did eighteen hours in the rural areas. that means the farmers don't run they're. the do birds

to water their crops that means factories and industries are closing down there because there's a massive unemployment only of inflation so that's one aspect of corruption the second is that it was sort of this money ends up and this was a chance of a lot of dog almost. all of the political leader in the middest money are excited by this done and i have everything in by you stand in mine and apart from more particularly this head of political bodies there have banned guns abroad their property is abroad and this is not declared so of this money most of this money ends up outside the country but let's move on to the u.s. . tell me about this assassination of osama bin laden in pakistan what was the feeling in pakistan to the i.s.i. it was hiding this hour going lot of that there in confidence why. was

a solid bin laden in pakistan and you know what you must understand is that some of been not there was trained by the i.r.s. and cia. did lot of bad them were trained by the cia and i.s.i. about twenty years back so this is this is these people were assets of by this time on. their woodridge by the bogus and i mean the i.s.i. financed by the cia or but they were fighting the soviets and for a long time these groups had very close association with the most unsecured agencies no suddenly comes no new lever and you do a lot of the leading degrees does i mean we shadowed us at hundley to be stolen. but it didn't mean that all along the way people would have accepted this because here what people are trained for jihad our job and this is in this just means by

doing the foreign occupation so our view of the can miss them having indoctrinating not only. these militant groups but also your need and sees that they're fighting a war and occupation is it is a religious duty or a right some subset of the i.s.i. some people perhaps who are dealt with him in the past who are still loyal as goes people who would have thought that if i do another foreign occupation which is now the worst is also as it is today of course if it's possible as it is there a feeling that the u.s. is helping our clean out militants in pakistan or is there a feeling that it's a violation of pakistani sovereignty and this was in the under what you believe. it was a go shoot which is a i don't know the most about thirty five thousand people dead fighting and there are those four. and as i said the country of last fall or in terms of when do you last was then the aid given to us and the government was the figure to

seventy billion dollars is going to be debated so this war isn't going to the supposed to be second facing for the worse and then out and i did not trust us and actually game and kill someone on our own soil it wasn't that at all factors combined in the second phase and secondly it is an area that we have not been friends and so forget about what the government on undocking what the people of the country who do to know what was going on because it. was the it was being abused the way to get them or all by the way because of this either the involvement or in goods but what about the people so good that there was a definitive in there was a very strong reaction born of the feeling of humiliation answer to think that you know that the us argue that so and bin laden is

a terrorist responsible for the deaths of many americans so they have a right to go in and take him out i'm saying is the. war on terror as large as somehow the confusion is there to win the war on terror by bombs and. you know killing people actually want to have as one would win hearts and minds of people if you lose the war this is that that is the where this is going to end i mean by just one as well radicalized did that it was eight years back by this time and this one or is it it's a polarized society than it was here two years ago whatever we do military this is not a solution we have. we did it for eight years the americans and feel for eleven years but what are we going to do now which is different and as i understand said madness is doing this if you go over and over again and expecting a different result it's not going to happen and there's no military solution only

weighs political solution by the. bottom the political solution we do not have politicians look you will all get a bit of both so you need elections a good bit of government hope for the osce we'll start a political dialogue help the americans in an exit strategy from understand it this is the one we are all those. we discovered a cable in two thousand and nine from the islamabad embassy. the prime minister of. interior minister mal ak went into the embassy and. offered to share an address that is the voting record system for voters in pakistan and a front company was set up in the united kingdom international identity services

which was hired as the consultants in that drawer to squirrel out. the. all of pakistan its it seems to me that is a theft of some national treasure of pakistan the entire pakistani database registry office people. judy it's so shameful. you know never has a country's ruling elite for personal benefits never had to betray to people as much as this elite and it was shut up and the currently. not only have done as they have been just number of people who have disappeared by this time. on suspicion of terrorism they were biased i mean these people from by just any sort of handle would do the americans on this mission of of of them being involved in some terrorists and people have disappeared. people that

eliminated suspects not a limited troop drawdowns. and not only suspects their wives the children of the neighbors and of an agent never has there been any wording in one of these people innocent or not new country has ever been bombed by its own and out as we are being bombed of this country as i said is the bullshit bit of my history never has a country that willingly betrayed its people saw the light at the start intruding elite and subversive benefits because all of their bank accounts across their money laying abroad and guess what the americans go on about guns they do believe on the sofa not from you know how how would you reconfigure their pakistan relationship with the united states were going to be a complete severance what would you permit drone strikes what kind of intelligence cooperation what would you do in practice.

have a better relationship based on the dignity self-respect. so it should be a relationship like the u.s. as with india it should not be a relationship with master lucian tippett and even worse the bystanders are higher than big beer to. kill americans and it is it's not it's a relationship that is feed it's loaded over to the people of by the sun was it delivered to the americans the only thing that you that the americans should be doorless that look there will be blood there isn't one but you can only do that if you lower the perceived to be a student of demands or you going to be a problem get and then deal with terrorists or at the moment the terrorists or the militants have declared jihad against bugs on government so that given your songs and on and on and up with these guys say that these are people out to something

americans so the woman should pull out of this war this jobs the will of the job goes we need then against our sifting through the end of me this is it within our borders and then only can we get into that it will be don't desert from us and so therefore number one step has to be pulled out as a lot more worried we become a sovereign independent state and the relationship with the us should be of dignity and self-respect no longer the. last relationship you know your you give a good description of how the war on terror in pakistan has been counterproductive it's created in the miti towards the pakistani government thirty five thousand to forty five thousand pakistanis have lost their lives why do you think the united states pursues. its agenda its during very in fact in pakistan if if the us ambassador even is writing back saying that it's counterproductive what is the

driving forces from the us. well julian i think it's because the the just like us the policy in us is being driven by a budget and it's the it's the army people who are pro this blows because the lead military people always think of military solutions if you look at it here and you listen to i think it was a general magnum are of someone i just remember a lot of dough and him well they're all saying we're back and it's sixty's that we've done the corner we're about to win the war but few moment a few more moments and this would do the trick so the generals always think like that. one final question iran. have you met a.q. . and what do you think about the father of the pakistani nuclear bomb. i've made

a clone of you know. there's a lot of pieces in the book of a couple of years back but i'm going to for twenty years because he'd give the first edition to when i started building the guns hospital he was the one going forward first. here's a hero he's is. here washington biased on because if i was the news of the morning was someone would give us security in other words. the same reason given by the israelis that they needed the bomb because this owner. hostile neighbors is ascendant by the sun before she was with india which is seven times the size of my guest on and there's a lot of the security of the country and this is a guy who's supposed to have secured us so from their point of view he's here washington biased on what i think of him i don't really nor was he in more of this proliferation on most of the ones of you why don't. you know by the americans and

we share over the others in two hundred percent of the logo ready to. give all evidence that i never was a lot of those now i don't really know of the it budget on television that it was avoided but he said he was forced by oneself to do that so i don't really believe the truth behind it julian buzz only i am and you hear i don't know diddly. for the world of it which has gotten you know a nuclear bombs. but at the moment there's the where the situation is. people will i don't hear this ever since we've had quite a bit of weapons even though there's been a lot of attention we've come across but there has been no war would be focused on india and before the nuclear weapon there were three wars so will people will i don't from that point of view ok. thank you very much to i wish you

all the best because i think you. what. is the moves toward. basically. by people with. this is. and i listen i'm the biggest beneficiary there's going to be these fields would have just. like you would never have i just. love coming. so do you think a little bit thank you good luck. cut . cut cut cut. cut sure is that so much different and there's a huge musician on the mark with kicking the can down the road this is how many see

the reason negotiations in moscow regarding iran's nuclear program are the western powers they build. a nation of free credit patients free in-store charges free. range month free. free. to tide free. download free broadcast quality video for your media projects free media oh don carty dot com.