the individual mandate has been ruled unconstitutional justices have just gutted wolf the centerpiece provisions of the obama health care law. don't adjust your television that's just the mainstream media throwing facts out the window again and the pursuit of breaking news will show you where they dropped the ball and now some common sense questions about america's raging health care debate. and congress might not be able to agree on anything these days but just two days before the interest rates on student loans are set to rise it seems that they've finally stopped dragging their feet but don't go counting your savings just yet we'll give you two good reasons why this isn't the victory it's made out to be.

and thursday june twenty eighth four pm here in washington d.c. i'm liz wall and you're watching r t. well a historic victory today for president obama's landmark health care law the supreme court decided to up hold the controversial legislation it's an issue that has divided the country in the mainstream media this morning rush to break the supreme court's decision here's some of the chaos outside of the supreme court. the individual mandate has been ruled unconstitutional justices have just got it both the centerpiece provisions of the obama health care law if it's in fact that's the final word on the individual mandate that could be a little bit more complicated like getting complaints there from a ship or getting inflicting information as they say there's been some confusion out there conflicting reports coming in from inside the supreme court so let's

let's hold off on drawing any final conclusions are still trying to figure this out be cautious with this we're trying to do the best we can right now as we sort through it and we did it right here in lower third actually may not be correct for a take several minutes as a reading through this again i we are reading now that the entire law has been out held. well as you can see in the rush to break the news they got it wrong the supreme court did not overturn that individual mandate their five to four decision and fact that holds all parts of the law that's what happens when you want to get a first instead of getting it right well of course this is a success for president obama he can now tell this as a campaign promise fulfilled in doing so they've reaffirmed a fundamental principle that here in america in the wealthiest nation on earth no illness or accident should lead to any family's financial ruin i know there will be

a lot of discussion today about the politics of all this about who won and who lost and how these things tend to be viewed here in washington but that discussion completely misses the point whatever the politics today's decision was a victory for people all over this country whose lives will be more secure because of this law and the supreme court's decision to uphold. well whatever the politics this is a victory for obama but is this historic ruling a victory for the american people and what does it mean for you to discuss this is nick gillespie editor in chief of reason dot com and author co-author of the declaration of independence how libertarian politics can fix what's wrong with america welcome next so the highest court in the land up holds this law alternately what does this mean for the american people well i think you're absolutely right this is a huge win for barack obama and it's not necessarily

a crushing defeat for the republicans or for mitt romney or for opponents of obamacare but it's not a great day. but for the american people i think you know there are reasons not to go not to be happy about this and the first is you know that the supreme court essentially said there are no limits to what government can make you do or not do they didn't use the commerce clause or thing about they relied on the taxing power but that's troubling the second thing is is that you know from a financial point of view and you can talk about the politics of it and stuff like that but there's no question that obamacare is going to be massively expensive and it's going to be many much more expensive than we were led to believe and then the third reason is that there's a very little reason to believe that despite expanding health insurance to cover you know some thirty million extra people it's not at all clear that this law is actually going to lead to better health outcomes for anybody in america so i think it's you know i think it's a pretty significant loss for the american people what this law does do is it would

require everybody to be covered it also covers things that the american people seem to be in agreement and in terms of it being able to be remain on your parents' insurance until you're twenty six years old preexisting conditions you can't get deny it if you have preexisting conditions these seem to be very positive things for people that fear that they won't be able to get the medical care that they need . there's no question that those are very popular whether or not they actually have a lot of effect on the way people end up getting health insurance or more properly understood you know what one of the one of the major problems with obamacare throughout it is that it conflates the idea of health insurance with good health coverage or with medical care the net effect i suspect is of obamacare is going to be that health care costs are going to go up and that actual health coverage is

going to shrink the only way that obamacare is going to bend the cost curve down and if you remember we used to talk a lot about that in the early days of this legislation is by through government channels reducing the amount that doctors and physicians and hospitals get paid for performing certain types of services when you do that you're going to have fewer people performing those services this is the problem in medicaid medicaid it's a system by which the government covers for people they pay doctors so little for service that you have very few doctors you know performing these services so you have you know arguably you have everybody covered but nobody actually seems to get health care but if you look at in terms of medicare a lot of elderly people are saying you know there are depend on that i mean would you be able to tell your grandmother sorry that no no medicaid for you i mean a lot of people depend on elderly people depend on this. you know medicare is the flipside medicaid deals with poor people poor people are not politically connected

you know nobody really roots for them so they get screwed on one side medicare which is you know covers people sixty five and over these are people who are wealthy who are a little quickly motivated who have a lot of clout in congress and what you find in medicare is that literally everybody who's in the system gets more than they put into the system that's why it is unsustainable medicare is the main reason which is a single payer system because the government pays the bills medicare is the reason why health care costs are going up why the federal budget is us that and to the extent that obamacare at all is going to lead people down the road of something on medicare we're just going to see explode cost the leave and the short answer in the in the current issue of the reason why it is in the dog dry cough michael which is basically saying you know what if you're over sixty five you should not automatically get medicare if you can buy your own health coverage that's wrong it's it's robbing from young or people relatively speaking and giving it to wealthy

old people relatively speaking so in fact i would be happy to say to my grandparents or to my parents if you can afford your own health care coverage you should pay for it you should not take money out of the wages of young people and what not and they are the reality is that millions of people cannot afford health insurance we have forty five million people in the us today that are not insured and it's increasingly becoming less affordable so that's just the reality here and here to break those numbers down first off everybody agrees that out of you know out of the uninsured about half of those people could afford it if they chose to they don't buy it for a lot of reasons these are not because it's so expensive no no no but it's also because if you're young you. if you simply by a large helpline because you're not going to use it and then gets the you know fifty cents to a virtual or obamacare virtually fifty cents of every health care dollar in the

country was already being spent by government sources whether it's medicare or medicaid or other of subsidies and what that always does is that it creates price inflation we know this in medicine we know this in college costs we know this everywhere in housing prices when you can get free or reduced price money through the government or other sources that markets you know the providers jack up prices to soak up as much of that subsidies possible so one of the one of the very reasons why health care costs are so expensive is because they're heavily subsidized and then when you have the government saying ok you know what we're going to deal with spiraling costs by subsidizing it more all it does is push prices up and it does not actually address the root problem and i'd say the root problem in medical care and medical coverage in health care in america is the absence of free markets this is arguably the most heavily regulated market for goods and services in the country and we need to actually get back to treating health care like a commodity or

a service that should be negotiated on free markets open markets as much as possible that's what drives innovation and interest prices now and then for the people who are two or two infirm or too sick to be able to afford it we can cover them with some kind of program or we help them out but that that is not the problem the problem is that we don't have enough markets and health care well we are seeing the effects of health care being treated like a commodity and you hadn't mentioned earlier that it's. the affordability of health care and i wanted to point out this interesting trend we're seeing today people going outside of the u.s. for medical care why because it's cheaper much for you know here is one example take the gull bladder surgery if you want to get surgery. here in the u.s. your insurance may or may not cover it it cost you between seven and fifteen thousand dollars that's just for one for a part of it in total it would cost fifty thousand dollars for the procedure from

start to finish but you know you can get that same procedure done in india and mexico and coaster rico for a quarter of that cost it so doesn't that show that something is wrong that people need to go outside of the us to get these procedures done. if it shows anything going to you know medical tourism is an interesting phenomenon and super online and for instance a lot of people from canada come down to the united states to get operations and procedures that are that they can get in canada if you go for a long waiting lists and you pay cash and it's cheaper but you know what what this shows is that we have made a major mistake where we talk about health insurance when we're actually talking about prepayment plans insurance typically covers against the the odds of catastrophic problems if you need to if you need a surgery if you need hospitalization if you have a heart attack but our insurance coverage is always covering things like regular

checkups every doctor's office of prescriptions and things like that and if we had if we had health insurance that was more like auto insurance where it doesn't cover your oil changes and it doesn't cover your tuneups but it covers big ticket items or do phrase the costs of those we would have much more we would have much better health care delivery in this country because doctors and providers would be competing in order to give you the best service at the best price you know realistically there is no reason why you know health care is any different than providing hamburgers for godsake people want to buy them sellers want to sell them if you get the government out of the business of subsidizing in regulating inch kind of straightjacket in markets where you have to do this and not that and and you're not allowed to sell insurance policies out of certain geographic areas and things like that you would see a free market in healthcare that would cover many many more people and much lower cost with much better outcomes i'm not really sure about that hamburger come to us

and i think they feel usually they want a hamburger health care is something that you need and unfortunately but soviet people are around are finding that they need medical care and they can't afford it and it you know what ends up happening is that these people that are uninsured they end up in the hospital and the hospital can't deny them so who ends up footing the . well taxpayers so why not have everybody insured and not have to end up in a worse case scenario well and end up in the hospital and in the end the taxpayers are footing the bill anyway it's here and here is one of the things first off emergency room care for instance is something like two percent of all health care spending so it's not it's not a huge amount and it's simply a fiction to say that people who are denied regular health insurance don't go to checkups and then they end up with a new emergency room and they have a major problem it's just not that big a problem in terms of the pricing of health care but you know if you stand on the margin say room visits are bad and people aren't insured but it is but it is

overall it's only two percent of all dollar spent on health care in a given year so let's say you get rid of that you've taken things down from one hundred cents to ninety eight cents it's not a big savings us why shouldn't we force everybody to have insurance and there's a there's a bunch of reasons first off is that you know health care is not something that everybody should be forced to take in and if i'm young and i'm relatively healthy and i want to take my chances without being having a major medical plan that covers every aspect of my life i should be free to do that in a free society i don't have a right to make a claim on you when i screw up because of my decision but that's a separate issue but more importantly and we know this is that if you force everybody into shards then you also have to guarantee certain types of coverage and it drives prices up it does not reduce prices and finally when you you know and then it reduces services we know this. and you talk about from canada is everybody is covered and there are longer waiting to. see all sorts of all sort of procedures

and things like that it's just the fact and it may be that you know enough people want to say you know what i'm willing to put up with less access but you know i think that the waiting lines let's take switzerland for example the waiting lines there are actually shorter where there is going to brazil healthy. there there is not universal health care in the way that the risen canada for instance a single payer system and it's not government run we are moving inexorably towards that and there is no reason to believe that given the way that americans want health care and we want health care we consume more of health care not simply because our procedures are more expensive but rather we go to the doctor more often and we expect more out of our health systems than other countries do there is no reason to believe that increasing government involvement in a in a field whatever whatever you know economic activity you're talking about there's no way it's going to reduce the cost when i gave a i think it's interesting that you say that of americans that want to go to the

doctor more but unfortunately what happens is people get really sick and they can't afford to pay their medical bills and it's one of the reasons primary reasons why people here in the us go bankrupt. that again i you know when we can debate the actual stats of that that is also that is i think that's over exaggerated and rather it becomes a way by which you decide to declare bankruptcy but the fact of the matter is is that relatively few people are going bankrupt because they don't have health insurance or they can't afford health insurance the fact of the matter is that i mean if you take it back to a very core concept which is that we know that when markets are allowed to operate in relatively free fashion you tend to get lower prices and better service it's not you know and then what that means is that in something like health care and something like education and other goods that people really care about you know you can come up with ways to cover the people who can't cover it on their own even in a in a looser market but the idea that somehow the government is going to come in and

this is the same government that delivers horrible horrible health care through medicaid and massively expense of health care through medicare to many people having senior actually relatively wealthy many of them could afford health care we give it to them for free or reduced prices anyway you know we're we're looking at it's aster that will sort of you know that has been unfolding for the past forty years in america as the government's got more and more involved in health care and it's only going to get worse right now we're going to have to leave it off there a historic day today at the supreme court it but i have a feeling that this battle is not over republicans are vowing to repeal obamacare so it looks like there is a lot more controversy to come thanks so much for coming on the show that was nick glass be editor in chief of reason dot com and co-author of the book the declaration of independence how libertarian politics can fix what's wrong with

america. also ahead an hour to your student loan interest rates may be safe for now but don't go celebrating just yet there's a few things you need to know before you step out of yourself with more college debt that story next. hour of american power continues. things that are so it. might actually be time revolution. and it turns out that a killer drink at starbucks has a surprising him really here. what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions to break through it's already been made can you trust no one who is you view with

a global reach and where are we heading state controlled capitalism is called fascism when nobody dares to ask we do our t.v. question more. well it looks like congress will act to prevent interest rates on student loans from doubling their sets a go up in just a few days the rates were set to rise on july first from the current three point four percent rate all the way up to six point eight percent but college students and grads shouldn't breathe a sigh of relief just yet that's because even if interest rates stay put students are still screwed while everyone else has been focused on interest rates there are other parts of the deal that have major financial implications starting sunday students must pay interest rates on their loans while they're still in school and immediately after they graduate so that grace period between college and getting a job gone also gone federal subsidies for education that will also jack up the

price to go to college students are now facing a twenty billion dollar increase on their federal loans. so what does this mean for college students and how could it impact the economy maxwell john love joins us now to talk about it he is a student at the university of madison welcome there. so first i want to ask you you know congress being touted they're being hailed for reaching this deal but students aren't really much better off are they. yeah i don't think so and there's definitely an issue today with the kind of repair and i would say that. student loan debt rates will probably stay at three point four percent after a deal reached by congress you know we're still dealing with ever increasing cost of our education a lot of issues are being talked about state issues that massacre our situation the fact that. you know these are often going to institutions are still charging six point eight percent. to eight percent range the fact that you know for

a column which is after ten percent of the students in this country and twenty five percent and actually that are responsible for forty four percent of the defaults you know so i think there's a lot of other issues here that are. always. well i just want to ask you why that is because you know what we hear about right now are these interest rates that are that are set to double but there's so many other important parts of this why are we hearing about all of all of the other things well i think it's important to remember that you know today is a partial victory the fact that some states will be able to retain and acquire federal student loans at three point four percent for example a friend of mine you know dimensions and you know without this low interest rate he won't be able to tell universities it's a madison but the other issues like i mentioned earlier ever the possible higher education my dad attended mass same university that i go to now it isn't a five hundred dollars you know today i mean and ten thousand dollars nobody's

really addressing the root causes of the cost of which so a lot of this is perfectly free and you know students may be able to are these student loans you have to ask why students need these loans in the first place when there are plenty of other alternatives for a for higher education our country and you know when you put even more of a burden on young people which eventually this is what this deal is going to do it's going to increase the cost of these federal loans i mean how can that drag down the economy. you know i think i think there. i think the other party should consider if you consider your are when students are wrapping up this much that. employers are checking sixty percent to sixty percent of their checking students' credit scores now you know so it's going to keep all the nonstop were raised that issue where that student is unable to go on the into the economy they're not getting married that putting off buying a house and you know all these things that stimulate the economy students are holding off on now so we're running straight into roadblocks that were encountered

by previous generations and that's going to mean a large issue and now that many young people are running into the these roadblocks it's kind of begging the question is the college degree that they invested in even worth that. i think that's i think that's not a good question but. i think that you know everybody should have access to college education and whether or not they want to understand so be able to time and that's why i brought you know the issue of mass incarceration earlier we see specifically targeted low income people are being imprisoned in the us and they're locked out of such occasion literally locked up and possibility in a higher education so that's why i really want to stress the fact that you know we do need this inside and we need to be calling we also need an outside game we're building a student movement that's based on quite deliberate mission targeting people that are a person rated you know working with people in communities and and only moving along side of this work that's going on within congress and you know a maxwell i want to bring the situation in canada because recently we saw mass

protests in canada some estimated in the hundreds of thousands of students activists and supporters taking it to the streets and demonstration against jewish and hikes and the likes in canada are nothing like a bike that we're seeing here and the us why don't we see this kind of opposition or this counter this kind of outrage here in the u.s. that's a good question any you see and i don't care that we see the movement in mexico students in chile who are you know protesting this well and it does beg the question why not here why not in the united states why not us why not today you know especially when some of our our you know parents and grandparents and movements like this in the past and you know i think i think a big a big issue is just you know the way that we're we're separated from each other and we're focused on having to pay for her if you can and you know pay for these increasing costs and it really it really divided students and so i think there's

there's going to i think there are in queens of the movement in the united states you know there's the student are not just in our national state of our convergence in columbus ohio on august tenth to fourteen and one of the biggest issues that we want to focus on our own you know the idea of collective liberation working with you know communities. access to higher education but also the movement that's brought in just heard station next fall what do you think it would take for students i guess to reach that breaking point and to see a revolt you know similar to what what we're seeing in canada that's a question you know you brought up you know hundreds of thousands of people who are going to be for protesting specifically in montreal and i think i think we need to see. you know realize asian that literally this is this issue of education is so connected with so many different issues in the country you know people are talking about issues to loan debt as it's a trillion dollars and it's the next it's next bottle it's like the housing bubble but obviously it's only a twentieth of the amount. but i think it does it does raise this question of what

are iraqis aren't actually i think that's the biggest the biggest anchor so once once we start to realize that all of our ari's are wrapped up with each other's liberation i think that's really the most important thing you know and it's a hard question to answer but i hope after august off a better answer and lastly i guess i just want to ask you you know we're seeing college grads college students rack up tens of thousands i mean if you go to grad school it's not unheard of for it's a rack up beyond one hundred thousand dollars and then what happens they graduate the job market is bleak so is college i mean doesn't seem like it's a worthy investment in some cases that's true i think i think it's important to you know ask yourself again what your personal priorities are and some people go to texas when you know they can spend a lot less money in education and make a lot more when they graduate you know there's been a lot of documentation about this if you didn't move you talked about student spent eight thousand dollars or one hundred twenty thousand dollars and you are literally

you're paying this stuff back for the rest of your life and so while the parents are you know the adults and school ask ask my schools and or and ask the governor society i still think that there is something that i think people need to make into their individual decision but once again this country does need to work our ties do you want to spend money on defense or do we want to use us anyone to center. right maxwell thank you so much for weighing in and that was maxwell john love a student at the university of wisconsin madison thank you well that is going to do it for now for more on the stories we covered you can check out our you tube channel we post everything on there that is youtube dot com slash artsy america and check out some of the stories we didn't have time to get to on air you can check out our website our web team is busy working away on stories over there that's our dot com slash usa and to find out what i'm doing when i am not reporting the news you can follow me on twitter at liz wall the capital account with lauren lyster is

up next but we'll be right back here and a half hour. news today. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. joint operations room.

wealthy british style. is not on. markets why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's cause or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into cars a report on r g.