are you ready to rumble joining me for tonight's big picture i will as the robinson freelance journalist and deputy director of the paul revere project same sex progressive commentator and writer and brand arlene daily mail contributor and director of government studies at the heritage foundation welcome to all of you brian quick question was mitt romney standing on the road for the heritage foundation he gave it to i know it was a couple blocks down the street he was one of my heritage foundation i was certain i was ok i will be for it it just looked like that ok so whole bamma care is constitutional after all but republicans think that's the sign of the apocalypse you know it's a the the anti-christ apparently here republican congressman mike pence compared the ruling don't nine eleven mike davis former spokesman for the republican party in michigan is asking if it's now time for an armed revolt michael savage and bryan fischer are saying john roberts has gone off the edge because he's taking epsom epilepsy medication this is

a law that protects one hundred plus million americans who have preexisting conditions that saves millions of kids puts them into the program already kids with preexisting conditions save seniors money on medicare prescription drugs y s e r republican so outraged by a law that will save millions of lives all i think is what we've just seen as a result of john roberts decision is that barack obama has imposed the single largest tax on middle middle class families that america's ever seen but those middle class i think he needs to justify which will probably just had about one percent of the people this is this is a penalty it all the other people issues not to buy health insurance so romney care which republicans are going nuts but essentially the idea they came up with a prominent conservative think tank came up with that was endorsed by their gingrich that mitt romney put in place was up out now in massachusetts where there's this penalty only one percent of the population pays it so it's a penalty now it's not a tax where you call it what you want your. it's actually said you could call it

one ok either way the law is going to do the same thing it's going to. thank you it's government bureaucracy that's not going to increase the quality of health actually massive tax cut for lots of working people who can't afford health insurance and are going to get tax subsidies to help purchase health insurance so it's mostly a tax cut and a tax increase or penalty or whatever you want to call it for probably the one to two to maybe three percent of people who choose not to buy health insurance the bottom line is up the supreme court got it wrong it's unconstitutional rand paul july is unconstitutional it's the obamacare individual mandate is not a proper exercise of the taxing authority of the federal government it is not administered by the internal revenue service this wasn't called x. it wasn't even called a tax it wasn't in the tax title of the road obama repeatedly defended that as not a tax in a public venue and before the supreme court he defended it as a tax but we can all agree i think that the supreme court decision makes no sense

in saying in one provision it's not a tax for the purposes of the anti injunction act and for another in another sense it is attack in two thousand when mitt romney was defending romney care to a group of republicans he said we place this penalty which is functionally a tax on massachusetts people who who were freeloaders who chose not to purchase well that was also going to the state level so i think it's different i think that yes the mother might be the same concept the concept you're compelling people to purchase health care and then building a model on that assumption but it's completely different and now mitt romney is committed to repealing it as our house and senate republican and i think once you take the senate that's not going to happen i think the point is the law was upheld and it was uphill it could have been upheld under the commerce clause i mean three federal judges upheld the law under the commerce clause basically argue were members of the court that basically arguing you can't opt out of health care in america everybody or at least ninety nine point nine percent of people are going to use health care and if people choose not to buy health care that means they're.

they're choosing to either pay for a later date or make other people pay for their health care which affects the national economy which allows the government to step in under the commerce right but let me let me ask a political question about this is it smart is this good politics for republicans to say to americans who increasingly are benefiting from this program seniors are seeing the donut hole close young people are on their parents' policies people are . figuring out that they can't be turned down to you said it's going to be repealed . isn't that shooting yourself in the foot no i don't think so i think i think repealing obamacare is the first step to establishing a health care system that actually works for the american people like that will actually lower at last that will actually give them coverage that won't force them off the plans that they're on the road going to advise them with these penalties how you do that but there are a number of conservative republican ideas on names on how free markets you can see selling going on health care if you have started this bill this bill will impose seven different taxes on the middle so i go no health savings account i get this i

get things how limitations of health savings o.e. are going to tell if somebody is making thirteen thousand dollars a year as a greeter at walmart that they should put aside fifteen or twenty thousand dollars a year or maybe a half a million or a million if they get sick well i mean if you've read the bill you know understand that there's limitations imposed in it on h.s.a. so they can't right now there's a cap of two thousand dollars placed on agents like creative genius and campbell and why the original question is is it good politics to be against obamacare yes it's always been a popular with the american people it was impossible but you know this if it will provisions aren't unpopular if you ask people based on their inseparable tomorrow they're inseparable friend why did you just give us a list of those individual provisions that republicans are going to embrace i didn't say they're going to embrace them i said that those state taxes those are a problem no you this girl is take things that you want a different light on this obamacare no this is taken it was basically within the limits of things that i wanted to replace obamacare with we don't need to replace obamacare we need to get rid of it repeal it and restart and come up with. and just

the air and open no government involved are no no no government absolutely anywhere haiti no doubt ever involved in health care before obamacare we still have a fifty fifty split between federal money and private money in health care there was there were obviously just dump trucks full of federal money that was being put into the process or medicaid medicare i mean they were selling his medicare is massively more expensive than any other kind of health care that's why the insurance companies want to get rid of it people over sixty five are more expensive don't we can't make believe that if you make obamacare go away tomorrow that we're going to be somalia but my point is you're not making an apples to apples comparison you're comparing apples to elderly bananas comparing the united states before obamacare to be united states after obamacare and it's going to be the same it's not going to well there's. six million young people who didn't have health insurance that now health insurance of their parents' plans post obama voters pretty obama one hundred million americans will soon be able to breathe a little bit easier because they're not going to turn down for preexisting conditions post obama that didn't exist before obamacare there's a lot of change those so if you guys are are are of the opinion that this is not

constitutional that john roberts voted wrong that's right is it possible that michael savage was half right michael savage says that roberts has had epilepsy all his life and therefore his medications are making him crazy was it possible that roberts having had epilepsy all his life is probably the one guy on the court uniquely qualified to understand what the hell a preexisting condition is and in fact he's probably been turned down for insurance a half dozen times in the last thirty years i think that he's he's obviously an intellectual on the court and only an intellectual could come up with the argument he came up with saying it is a tax but it's not a tax it's a tax for purposes of of the constitution it's not attached to you in other words you don't think was preexisting condition anything to do it with no absolute i think what he wanted to do was preserve the court and it's all about and serving the curiosity i think i'd be very charitable to say that as a result of i guess some people are saying that it was the absolute the medications that he was on and i'm like i don't think any of us are mind that no i don't buy.

that's a cheap shot as well and maybe he had higher level of sympathy for individuals and preexisting conditions but at the end of the day i think he just fumbled it i think he prioritized. his legacy as a supreme court justice i think he thought that he needed to protect it and what is this of attention protect to protect his legacy in the institutions from which it was primarily i think to protect the private health insurance market i mean if nothing was done about if obamacare was repealed and if nothing was done we'd be approaching a health care crisis and the public anger would would drive a single payer system but now at least you are preserving the health care private health care system at least for the next however long until maybe until that itself becomes untenable and you have grave seventh but the election year so this was a grand conspiracy to to undermine a single payer system they may well have been public is going to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress yesterday more than one hundred democrats walked out in protest of the vote here's what the attorney general had to

say about it. today's vote may make for good political theory feeder in the minds of some but it is a base full faith crass effort and a grave disservice to the american people expect and they deserve far more so was this politically motivated theater or was it as. my in inbox my e-mail inbox suggests from all the right wing e-mail i'm getting actually a racially motivated vote to satisfy the fox news conspiracy theorists who are convinced that two black guys in the white house are going to use brown people of mexico to scare all the white people into saying that's it we don't want the second amendment anymore well. and race caused him to lie before congress i mean playing the race card and saying it's racist is absurd there's no is there any as in sort of racism can you point to one racist thing that was that i had when i had never heard of race being the connection with you here. look it's gun sales in arizona

the week before in the week after president obama became president more guns were sold in that state than in the entire preceding year i mean that's and have anything to do with the value that president obama is black it has to do with the fact that he is rabidly opposed to the second amendment and people were buying them while they last a lot in criticizes conservatives you guys are getting the same e-mails that i am there's a lot of could be any of a good word here let's face it it's the first first black president pattern there's questions about where he was born we've never ever impeaching attorney general before in our nation's history sorry held one in contempt of congress and now here we are doing that but this is political therapy is alternately what conservatives and what the n.r.a. are doing is trying to turn focus to attorney general eric holder when focus should be able to laws that they've lobbied for for decades to make it virtually impossible to confiscate guns on the mexican border which is a.t.f. agents wanted to confiscate these guns laws before bid them and then guns are made across the border and we're going this story the fortune magazine did the right the whole idea of gun walking was nonsense it was it was

a hysterical conspiracy theory had by. some right wing kooks that then was and was a blowers in the know actually no discriminatory in the not even that i mean that there are any minors non-durable and that he's in trouble for lying before congress he told something under oath that was not true and either he lied about it or he did make a misstatement that he had to retract in the future we also had an incident where whistleblowers were providing information to congress which contradicted by the live before yes there is he said something that was false when you learned about the fast and furious controversy he said i learned about it two weeks ago then later the justice department said a letter sent a letter to. saying that we were wrong about that the attorney general learned about this controversy a little bit earlier there's also a controversy over she's a whistleblower there's a lot of why this is about documents every time you hear i said talk about he's talking about and any any politician on the. just saying we want the documents the

president has filed executive order to check the claim executive privilege of the documents deal with ongoing investigations holder can't release these documents and yet they're holding him in contempt over those same doctor because i don't ring up scandal the worry is that they're covering up that we're going to be undermined whistleblowers that we're blowing the whistle on this controversy i mean if executive privilege can cover the nixon tapes i don't understand how it can't cover some documents related to this source one is not you know they're all i said darrell i say this was on the record in criminal investigation life support on record during the congressional testimony wiretap applications that he was able to get from the government heavily redacted but within those documents those those point the way to what could possibly be vindicating documents for republicans i think that they need to they need to be seen and you know it would it would take it would be very easy for eric holder to meet privately with the investigators and explain to them why this couldn't happen and obviously he's ceiling so we'll see

was concealing something in the rubble after the break. there hasn't been anything good on t.v. . it is to get the maximum political impact on. the source material is what helps keep journalism honest we. we want to present. something else. could you take three. point three. three three. three.

video for your media project. welcome back to the big picture rumble on our panel tonight s.e. robinson freelance journalist and deputy director of the paul revere project and

he's very anti-corporate. if you are sam sex progressive commentator and writer and brian darling daily mail contributor and director of government studies at the heritage foundation let's go back to congress passed a compromise deal to prevent student loan rates from interest rates from doubling this is just today and in the end it looks like students got screwed previously after you graduated from college there was a six month period where the government was basically covering the interest payments on your student loans you had a breathing space republicans were horrified by that and it was originally the senate bill but they took it out in the house republicans control the house and to get this thing passed the democrats want to long with it. all together this change is going to mean that students are going to pay an extra twenty billion dollars on their loans over the next decade and in the end right now student loan debt is over a trillion dollars which is just exploding in the republican austerity agenda why does. students working people and the elderly have to make sacrifices but the oil

barons the banks toure's and the romney level super rich haven't made a single penny of sacrifice as well i'm actually paying student loans right now so this is one of my concerns and when i first look at this i say i'm going to pay it one way or another i mean we are we are is addressing generation where are the ones who are going to be around stuck with the tab and so on i mean they're going to pay it as interest on my student loans or i'm going to pay it but who knows how much interest at all over a crude by the time i'm paying down the that would be so-called austerity join the rest of the developed world and give it give college to kids for free. yes let's face it we are the dead generation as you said because we have extremely wealthy people who aren't paying their fair share in taxes and we have to make up for that that's why we're in so much debt right now but it's amazing like here we have here we have a compromise that was made that eventually screws over students whenever whenever something like oil subsidies is coming down the pike or the capital gains tax

loophole there's never any room for negotiation to make those people sacrifice anything or lose one cent of their subsidies or tax loopholes ever students are working people it's always that they're always going to have you know how they're paying for this to their rating pensions pensions isn't that great so taking from the old and giving to be young that's a redistribution of wealth but you know the republican idea well the suitable americans are going to have work rights the democrats would have said just to hey you know let's let's add a quarter of a percent rate loads that romney people this modification of student loan rates cost six billion dollars a year so that's sixty billion over ten years so that's a savings i mean in the end students will save money they'll save forty billion over the twenty billion that you say this is this was never the case in america i mean lincoln gave us land grant colleges free colleges thomas jefferson create the university of virginia was free i went to college in the late sixty's and early seventy's i didn't know anybody who had student debts. i mean from from my

generation i know nobody it's like the world has has been reinvented since ronald reagan i don't get it i don't get why you guys would why don't i just don't know what you want your socialist i don't run into some serious problem why socialist government nine hundred eighty five or higher education and i said you know i was carrying very high law school debts and you know that's the way it is you get a pay in the end with all the money that you're supposed to be making when you graduate law school for education i mean if all if the progressive teachers at the many universes in colleges around the country would agree to teach for free then yeah maybe we could have a publicly funded education system but it until until they agreed to get rid of their you know lofty salaries and their you know next to all this and it's all the teachers fill the left it's a lot of us are saying if you want free education if you want public education that's and it was going to taxpayers just teacher was you know the socialism you really want to have investments in our intellectual glascock last question quick for one of the most surprising things about thursday's health care ruling was that

it was chief justice roberts who sided with the left flank of the court could this be an indication the roberts is tacking the court to the middle out of fear that the far right may ruin the reputation of the high court as i think it's an indication that justice roberts might have just lost his marbles sam i'm not convinced he's given citizens united is going to a lot of things and there's going to be voter id laws coming down and i think he's going to be there there may and. we keep him so this decision already read obamacare decision already ruined the reputation of the high court so there's nothing to say ok and i i personally think that by throwing this into the realm of tax had it stayed in commerce clause it could be filibustered when it hits the senate now that this is not of this in the realm of tax it's only going to take a simple majority so for publicans get the senate they will repeal it so a that was a huge you know big wet kiss on the mouth of the republicans by john roberts but throwing in a tax and b. he has made this a huge camp. an issue for the republicans this was the very best thing

a good republican could have done for the republican party as the robins and same sex friend our own thank you all for being with us. if you think the supreme court's ruling that obamacare is constitutional is the end of the debate think again this is one of those cases where history has a huge lesson to teach us back before nine hundred seventy three abortion was illegal nationwide i'm old enough to remember a girl in my high school in lansing michigan who in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven died of sepsis from an illegal abortion one day she was there week later she was debt her dad worked at oldsmobile and had health insurance but health insurance didn't cover abortions because they were illegal the richer girls at school had

parents and their parents get them what was called the d.n.c. operation the hospital and pretty much everybody knew it was kind of an open secret that when a seventeen year old girl was getting a d.n.c. it was code for an early term abortion but this young woman's parents didn't have the money to pay for a hospital procedure that wasn't covered by insert insurance so she tried the coathanger method and died many people have to remember seventy three can tell you similar stories back in seventy three one hundred seventy three many many americans knew these stories for example supreme court justice lewis powell had a clerk actually was a messenger whose girlfriend died from a botched self administered abortion he came to lewis powell and said help me tell me what to do pile up to cover it up you work that out with the local police which is why when the supreme court struck down the nation's anti-abortion laws in one thousand nine hundred eighty three roe v wade well over half of americans agreed with the decision everybody knew these kind of stories so when roe v wade was decided. democrats figured hey everybody understands how you know good this is it's

the end of the issue supreme court spoken let's move ahead the democrats deal with the bigger issues like the environment or trade policy or ending the war in vietnam which by the way wasn't ended until two years later and seventy five democrats figured the controversy around roe v wade would soon settle down because after all the chief justice warren burger who had only been on the bench for four years was a long time conservative a republican activist who'd helped dwight d. eisenhower win the white house he was appointed chief justice of the supreme court in sixty nine by richard nixon who'd been eisenhower's v.p. and had known berger for decades and berger had voted mostly in a conservative direction for example in seventy two the year before roe v wade albeit in the minority he argued hard and voted to keep the death penalty legal in the united states but then in one nine hundred seventy three roe v wade came before the court and this conserve and conservative nixon appointee chief justice warren

burger voted in a split decision that abortion during the first three months of pregnancy should become legal in the united states pundits and republicans were shocked that the nixon appointee for chief justice had joined with the liberals on the bench there was all kinds of huffing and puffing but again the liberals figured a it's a done deal that's going to be that it's going to blow over a year or so live with it right wingers was the montra of the day but immediately after the decision conservative politicians started using opposition to the supreme court's decision and opposition to abortion to make political hay and perhaps most importantly to raise huge piles of money you know for a century in the united states ever since just after the civil war the phrase right to life had described the anti death penalty movement. but the national right to life committee incorporated in one nine hundred seventy three in response to roe v

wade and today pretty much nobody remembers what that phrase right to life used to refer to the movement to stop the death penalty instead it is going away as democrats thought it would the newly birthed the right to life movement to overturn the supreme court's roe v wade decision or to legislate around it grew into a powerful national force it became the litmus test for republican appointed justices to the supreme court and even a federal appeals courts similarly opposition to roe v wade became the litmus test for republican candidates for elective office pretty much the only strongly pro-choice republican in the senate right now for example is a libya snowe and she's resigning this year and most importantly the anti-abortion foes forces have raised hundreds of billions of dollars for the republican party over the years which brings us to this week's supreme court decision upholding obamacare democrats in the president are basking in the glow of winning the supreme

court case the president even made a statement encouraging us all to move on from this debate not to write really litigate the past and instead to focus on bringing jobs back to america progressive's are breathing a sigh of relief thinking the issue is settled and over the issue is not over mark my words this is just the beginning of a generational battle there's no such thing as a perfect health care system obamacare isn't perfect either there will be people who get bad care or who even die from mistakes in the system and the republicans will make them as famous and iconic as terry scheibel. every little failure or problem will be magnified one hundred full repeal obamacare is going to become the battle cry for republicans for the next twenty years or longer you think not already started michele bachmann was on c.n.n.

this morning encouraging governors to refuse to implement the state insurance exchanges and scott walker's already said he's not going to go along with obamacare the former head of the michigan republican party in a candid moment wondered out loud if this decision meant it was time for an armed insurrection. mitt romney has raised nearly five million dollars since the decision came down and as we speak groups are forming all over the country to raise money to fight obamacare democrats wake up this is going to be massive and just like with abortion the republicans will never make a real and serious effort to actually do away with obamacare because they know that would horrify most americans but year after year they're going to be waving that bloody shirt the icon of the french revolution of their opposition to obamacare and just like with abortion this is going to flip elections from city councils to

congress and the white house get ready democrats the bleep storm has just begun that's it for the big picture for tonight for more information on the stories we covered visit our website to tom hartman dot com free speech dot org and. also check out our two youtube channel is there a link for thom hartmann dot com also it's on our of an outcome check or all the different ways you can send the speech and don't forget democracy is not a spectator sport it starts with you get out there get active tag your it occupied so we'll see you next.

oh. me believe he gave me he. believes. it's. such a. was

. it.