nicole williams democratic strategist and attorney and marc harrold libertarian commentator and attorney to thank you all for joining me and i thank mitt romney seems to be in a big mess the boston globe caught in a lie on thursday by releasing f.c.c. documents proving that he was actually played by being capital past ninety nine and in fact now we know that he actually owned being capital right up until two thousand and two obama campaign spokeswoman stephanie carter said quote mitt romney either lied in federal filings that show that he worked at bain capital through two thousand and two and could be guilty of a felony or has lied to the american people in saying he left the company in ninety nine romney did a whole series of the interviews tonight he's he's saying no you technically work there but i didn't go but i did but i didn't. it's very very strange he was even on the board of the company called lifelike that was one of the companies owned by being right up until two thousand and two and harry reid piled it on he said he could not only not be confirmed as a cabinet secretary couldn't be confirmed as a dogcatcher that was in part because he won't release his tax returns. i'm just

i'm just baffled by this and joshua maybe you can provide me some insight if if you own if you had started a company from scratch you built it up to being worth one hundred million dollars it was your baby you own hundred percent of it and you went off to another part of the country to help your country to do something and you turned it over to some other people but it was your entire future your kids everything when you pay attention to it i think i would pay attention to it but actually it looks like according to the washington post and their fact checker it looked like the story about a boston globe actually turned out to not be broad based on fact and in fact mitt romney went to go help the olympics you want to go through a lot of things that ended up proving that he was a powerful leader and something that we desperately need right now but his signature is on all these things and yet i mean he find these documents with the s.d. feet if those are facts those. actual documents in tangible proof that he thought i

say make he was filthy l. of the company so i don't think how that is not actually the truth when he signed his name to those documents work i'm curious your take on the well you know this is a big there's a big problem he's off message it's not clear at this point what his message is in this business relationship the idea that he can run a business fall with the f.c.c. handle all these things and juggle these balls in the air it seems to be kind of breaking down and i think this is a big problem because like you said it's easily provable this isn't something he has a gaffe and he goes back and correct it he's got a problem here because there's a paper trail as there should be but you know that i you know i really don't know i think they were quick to call him a felon i think they were quick to say at the things he got mean quickly of course it is politics yeah absolutely no i mean if i was rather all right i'm not going to do the same thing but you know what i see here is they they need to back up a little bit they need to get the facts straight but as far as i have been astonished at how bad he has a campaigning how poorly vetted things like chronologies quotes they seem to get

caught up where oh you said this oh i did you know when did i say that he has a long history he's been the presumptive nominee for a while they really feel like they're stumbling and they're not even out of the gate they're just stumbling and this is the second time in four yeah i don't understand why they're stumbling this came up when he ran for senate in massachusetts this came out when he ran for governor of massachusetts it came up the first time he ran for president and it came up again during the presidential primaries here's here's the new one that just came out mark just a joshua just just a few hours ago he ran for governor in two thousand and two in massachusetts they have a residency require you have to prove that you spent a certain amount of your time in the state in order to be a resident of the state and he said oh yeah i was here and he filed with the state saying i came for board reads you know and now he's saying no no no there's no board meetings on which employer how is he going to square the circle. well i think you know if you look at it a lot of people are saying that his leaving almost broke down the company of bain and so if he didn't actually we've invited to ninety nine when he said to them it's hard for me. imagine that people are saying the company has another question if the

company was breaking down because of a decision he made if he's that bad a c.e.o. do we really want him as president well i think the proof has been so successful and he has made them a lot of money and a lot of money for other companies i think that actually goes to show you as a pretty good leader and the kind of leader we're looking for it just wasn't there when decisions were made that comparatively ok this is this week republicans have voted to repeal obamacare for the thirty third time and even though they have no chance of succeeding there's the republicans you know every time i see the g.o.p. logo and i have a new guest i have to ask the question do you do you do you know joshua i've asked mark before and he doesn't know and i'm pretty sure to call you don't know when did the stars get flipped upside down that's the international distress symbol and it's also the sign of satan worshipers the normal star is the top is they had you know with the arms and the legs it's and the upside down stars the goat it's the horns at the top the ears on the side the chinny chin jen you know this happened in two thousand why did the republican party do that i don't have much information about

why the can you get back and you know i have a good idea back and every repub ok anyhow so back to back on topic here at this republican this is this week the thirty third time they were going to vote here's what c.b.s. news said about that vote. it is the thirty third vote to repeal all or part of the president's health care law no republican asked for it that according to a c.b.s. news tally has taken up at least eighty hours on the house floor that's two full work weeks since early two thousand and eleven the congressional research service tells us that the house of representatives costs is twenty four million dollars a week so with two weeks spent repealing the law that comes to a little under fifty million dollars ok so the republicans spent fifty million dollars in unsuccessful attempts that they knew were going to fail to repeal obamacare because even if they succeeded in the house i guess they did arguably even thinks of seeing in the senate i don't think obama's going to sign

a piece of legislation that you know anyway we could of we could have use that money to provide food stamp benefits to thirty one thousand people for a year to send six thousand students for four years college for free when there's so many three thousand american unemployment benefits for a full year so the call what's going on here i have no idea what's going on i think the american people would rather see congress work on something to try to improve the economy as opposed to taking actions on things that they know are not going anywhere it's time to move forward i mean congress has acted the supreme court has said that the bill is constitutional it's time to move forward people are out of work people are hurting in this economy and it's time for congress to actually do something instead of playing politics like do your job that's what the american people want yeah it doesn't seem to be happening mark well this is this is the president's major legislative victory he's done a lot of things there executive order he's done a lot of things to delegation but this is a major victory they're just they're back on their heels they're they're punching

back as much as they can this appeals to their base their keep fighting were not given up with here's the thing is it is a waste of time and there's this is becoming only thing they're doing the problem here is not just that there everybody is wasting money i could find weeks spent in subcommittees all over the place for. look for that way probably wasted just as much on both sides they all waste money congress waste money but the bottom line here is there are other things to do and it when you say move forward i'm not saying they should abandon this issue they believe in it a large constituency does not like this law keep working on it but there's no budget people are out of work they have to do other things too this has become a myopic campaign centric congress on both sides to some degree but they're off that they're off the rock there was a meeting the night obama was sworn into office in january two thousand and nine that evening after he was sworn in as a meeting over the caucus room the restaurant the steak house down on one thing where fourteen republicans got together and basically swore a blood oath to block anything that came out of congress five five or six senators

arrested were members of the house of representatives and frank luntz and you gingrich and newt gingrich came out and said you will see in two thousand and twelve the seeds of two thousand and twelve or so in here tonight this was it they've been doing this now for three and a half years is this a strategy is going to work for the republicans simply to block any opportunity of forward motion i think specifically with obamacare i think it is a good idea because i think poll after poll show that a majority of americans are comfortable with the do see it as a tax fifty five percent of people just as a tax and a lot of people do want repeal it's a tax and it's part of this. and as far as the congress wasting time i think it's important when you look at. the volume of the obamacare bill it's a trillion dollars and so in our congress is the republicans in congress specifically trying to spend fifty million dollars to kind of investigate if you think about as a percentage but that it's only going to take a brother to me when they're around zero. people i mean health something else on the table actually to do some work if that is spending eighty hours debating

something that's been debated thirty two other times before there are republicans who put forth a strategy is no paul ryan has them but if you're going to spend one hundred dollars i think most people would be willing to spend half of a penny to investigate the pros and cons of that what is that a reasonable arguments and let's take that the next. there's a piece of legislation coming before the house of representatives and the senate called the disclose act it's actually originate in the senate although it will you know they always have to regime the house will do the double backflip but any of what it does is it gives and this was passed actually two years ago by nancy pelosi out of the house of representatives got filibustered the senate even though there were more than fifty votes for it to get a filibuster by republicans and it basically did what antonin scalia in the citizens united did not the dissent the the primary opinion said that congress should do which is make donors to political campaigns all of their hands say yeah this is me i'm donating to this this is and now the n.r.a. has said that they're going to score the bill in other words if you vote against this bill the n.r.a.

is going to say you voted against gun rights and this this just blows my mind the n.r.a. had been opposed to the original disclose act they wanted a loophole that congress gave them a loophole and then they said they were in favor of it this one doesn't have a loophole for the n.r.a. so they're opposed to it. what do we get this this doesn't seem like legislation to me mark where where do we start so well you know on the disclose act we've talked a lot we've disagreed on the five for part of the station we create one part of the station this closure part doesn't come out as much i think there's nothing wrong with this when it my argument i argue that it's speech it gets out there persuades people to do something any critical thinker needs to know especially in the political realm what the source of that speech is any critical thinker if you get some information you need to know the motives of the people saying that that being said just because you belong to an organization that does that you should necessarily have your membership rolls turned over you should have a separate account that your money and you should be able to earmark your money but if you give it to the political campaign it goes directly to message you should

have to disclose your name i have no problem with that i agree but the court did it was eight to one on that on most of the generalities that that lend itself to this i'm sorry judge you on this as well i think what this does is think quickly comes down to the difference between unions and corporations the average union member pays the. five hundred dollars a year. in membership fees and so about is that there's been a chance to. disclosure and you don't want it but the unions have disclosure i mean they have to disclose their records to the department of labor when they respond one hundred percent so those names are one hundred percent disclosed so there isn't anything the unions are hiding but yet corporations are trying to hide behind the she'll of giving huge dollars to the super pacs without saying where the money is coming from i don't think it's hiding i think that corporations know they have a responsibility to their shareholders and their customers and that when they can sometimes get involved in these kind of really hot topic situations it can be bad for their business and so we've always had the right thing if it's bad to don't engage and if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to hide. if it's good

business and it's good business is one of the reasons for that i mean you know not really does break down because unions do have to disclose the department of labor every penny they spend and rise but the overwhelmingly demand don't add to the democratic candidates and they just write it down i suppose all of it why shouldn't corporations do the same because corporations have you know there's nothing at stake for the unions in that situation because of their survival. and usually if they're fighting for a just saw indiana you know wisconsin become right to work for a while states of these these were unions fighting for their survival but i don't i don't recall i mean i don't buy it you know the american public does not like secret money the american public wants to know who is investing in the politicians that there are electing the american public wants to know who is behind the these individuals campaigns they want to know where is the money coming from and it creates an unfair advantage where you have people giving millions and millions of

dollars you have billionaires ironically some of these billionaires are actually bragging about more romel right after the break. there hasn't been anything good on t.v. . it is to get the maximum political impact possible. before source material is what helps keep journalism honest we are all. we want to present. something else. in full started here before going global and now it's pulling viral.

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welcome back to the big picture rubble joining me tonight joshua riddle producer of the laura ingram show and founding member of the young cons nicole williams democratic strategist and attorney and marc harrold libertarian commentator and attorney with a lot of attorneys who could have a conversation about judicial review my favorite and some of the time i suppose last question if the documents released on thursday by the boston globe and there there have been new ones by the way today from talking points memo and and having him post the show that mitt romney lied on is a c c forms if these documents are credible it becomes obvious that he's guilty of a felony which would pretty much preclude him from running for president and therefore he steps down even before the republican convention which of the

republican candidates will have to take his place joshua which way who would you be rooting for and what do you think of the possibilities in the very very very small event is convicted a felon that has been debunked of already you know i think it's a really exciting time for conservatives to go marco rubio. paul ryan. seacrest if you would not go for any of the folks who had been in the primary like some of the folks who i think a lot of people month generation some of the you guys to get more fired up and passion about some of the younger more up and coming. i like ron paul i could get interesting recall what what do you think it adds up to see newt gingrich i mean knew it was one of the ones attacking governor romney on this same issues that i think it would be great to have newt back in the ring in talking about his electromagnetic field that he's been talking about lately you know i actually knew and phyllis schlafly and i all agree on judicial review. but that's not in the constitution and so anyway particularly i used to live in in newt gingrich's

district and i saw you know i have these like are you going for thirty. sob county i have a lot of respect from i think he's very intelligent and they're one of the reasons i would also go with ron paul obviously given my my overall ideology i have a lot in common with what dr paul believes but i think the one thing you would do obviously would be you know romney's very slick and i think maybe this is going to be one of those things where people think he's too slick because maybe trying to you know i certainly aren't bill to the point calling anyone a felon anyway i think that's a little overboard really isn't right now kind of trying to you know void the john kerry swift boat trap and i think if you even in the original question is who would you go with if i was the republican picking someone i would go with someone who is very different than mitt romney at this point i think i think ron paul obviously is but i would probably probably go with newt gingrich because he's he's different he was probably the most critical obviously had to be he was in the race so you have the most distinguishing him you'd need a different kind of republican at that point but i think he would need somebody who's just different than somebody you think will make trying to get away with

something and i think you believe as you like him so you know i mean if he still works. with the joshua to call mark thank you all for being with thank you much appreciate. my so-called news is predicting a civil war right here in the united states of america in an article published on fox news dot com arthur herman warns that history is about to repeat itself and americans will soon take up arms against each other but this time he says it won't be the north versus the south. it'll be the makers versus the takers as herman writes calling it america's coming civil war between the makers and the takers on one side are those who create wealth america's private sector the very ones

targeted by president obama's tax hikes on the other are the public employee unions left leading and left leaning intelligentsia who see the growth of government as an index of progress and the millions of americans now dependent on government through a growing network of government transfer payments from medicaid and social security to college loans and corporate bailouts and handouts in other words a war between the rich people like mitt romney the koch brothers and shelley adults and fox news of the so-called makers pitted against the so-called takers the rest of us americans who aren't rich the vast majority of us who go to work every day who will some day live off of social security the social security funds that we've paid into every day of our working lives. so called news has been playing up this theme for quite a long time as makers versus takers thing though it's the first time they've actually warned of a civil war between the two. all week this week fox business presenting

a special series called entitlement nation makers versus takers well the nation's growing dependence on government handouts and the feds give away more money than they collect in taxes the money is doled out primarily in the form of entitlements like social security medicare and medicaid that only are these problems on cons are these programs unconstitutional as the federal government is not authorized to take money from one group and give it to another but they make americans dependent upon big government kicking off tonight for several weeks now scoreboard has been featuring a segment called makers and takers which we think of bodies the great divide in this country between the folks who actually make things and those who actually take what others make most of it was pretty obvious why fox is doing this fox is own by billionaire rupert murdoch and run by multimillionaire and former nixon and reagan strategist roger ailes is pretty much the official mouthpiece for the

billionaires and their republican party so of course fox would want their working class viewers to believe that fabulously rich people like ailes and murdoch and their buddies who sit in the corporate boardrooms are the noble makers and they also have a vested interest in branding americans who are retired or down on their luck as takers to justify breaking up public unions dismantling social safety net programs and trying to convince americans to ignore actual economists who say that taxes need to be raised on the wealthy and government spending actually needs to increase like dwight eisenhower jack kennedy and richard nixon all did to put the unemployed back to work after all of the banks and health insurance executives succeed in privatizing medicare and social security and that means a boatload of new profits that they can skim billions off the top. so we know why

fox news to us but what's really important here is this is is this that fox is partially right only they have the two labels reversed the makers are people who make things the workers and not people like mitt romney who haven't actually ever made anything in their lifetimes the makers are also the people who help the workers make things people like teachers and cops and firemen you know i's public sector workers who ensure that our communities are safe clean and that our kids are well educated and people make sure that our markets have rules on the other hand the takers are people who take pics like the billionaires who live high on the hawg all their workers are making things the prime example of a taker is a capital s. and most people don't understand what that word means the dictionary definition of a capitalist is somebody who makes money with capital they invest money and live

off their investments while most working americans think that they're capitalists because they live in a nation that has some capitalists in reality there are very very few true capitalists in america people who just live off their investments just a few tens of thousands. someone like mitt romney who takes money easily by squeezing out the fruits of other people's labors as he did it bain capital invests it and then sits around and waits for other people to do all the work making things to ensure that his investment is profitable all the while romney sits on his butt by those who mean poor collecting his dividend checks which by the way you only pay fifteen percent interest or taxes on but in this chart it shows that working americans have increased their productivity over the last several decades working americans are making more and more things that they're doing it better but notice how around the time of reagan here in one thousand nine hundred right there around

the time reagan workers pay started a flat line whereas productivity continue to go up why is that because all this extra income that the makers the laborers should have her because of the extra hours in the rising productivity all this extra income was taken by the takers by the corporate executives by pirate equity hostlers like romney fox news is trying to call these those executives makers it is this quote chart clearly shows they are the actual takers and it also shows why so many working americans the ones who actually make things have to take government benefits because their wages stagnated so that the c.e.o. takers no longer pay them enough money to keep up with the rising costs of food energy health care housing and education. and on the flip side are we really

supposed to believe that oil barons who take forty billion take forty billion dollars in taxpayer subsidies and then pollute our skies and don't contribute one dime to help treat the explosion of cancers asthma and other diseases that they're creating in our communities are we really supposed to believe that those people are makers and are we supposed to believe that defense contractors who take no bid contracts to build cruise missiles and drones and lobby for perpetual war that takes the lives of americans at their makers too and are we supposed to believe that pirate equity managers like mitt romney who take other people's body by factories take away american jobs then sell of factories back for profit but these guys are somehow makers they're not they're takers this whole idea of makers versus takers is actually rooted in the philosophy of psychopath i and rand who instead of

calling working people takers like fox news does call them losers in her book atlas shrugged iran and visions a world in which the billionaires the so-called makers go on strike and leave the running of society to the looters she imagines in her book that everything would collapse which is absurd as we've seen in south america and increasingly in economically devastated parts of the united states and the billionaires pack up and leave then very often when given the opportunity moving working people will move into the factories and begin running themselves turning them into worker own co-ops and doing what they know how to do best manufacture things make us. the truth is without the real makers without working people and the billionaire takers would be up a creek without a paddle big forced to make their own meals drive their own cars clean their own

houses can you imagine the horror so fox news says we're headed for a civil war in fact as warren buffett said there is class warfare america and as warren buffett pointed out it's his class the billionaires who are winning it's time for the real working class makers to wake up and realize how they're being gamed robbed and lied to by the billionaire takers. as the big picture for tonight be sure to tune in monday for our bigger picture conversation with special guest congressman dennis kucinich more information on the stories we covered visit our web sites tom armin dot com free speech dot org dot com you can also check out our two you tube channels are links over thom hartmann dot com also there you can check out all the different ways you can send us your feedback and don't forget democracy is not a spectator sport you gotta get in the game occupy something show up tag your it and see the truth.

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