he starts on t.v. don't scold. us blame syrian leaders for the latest deadly carnage calling for action against president or international observers and investigate the regime and rebels accuse each other of the massacre. gather in new york consul freedom of information and ways to counter government surveillance in a show of strength for whistleblowers or press privacy concerns over plans to deploy molecular level laser scanners at u.s. airports. here's theory in madrid hundreds clashed with police over new wage costs and tax hikes the belt tightening measures are in exchange for a euro zone it's a bank. max renowned british on guard film director peter green greenaway tells our knob why he thinks cinema is dead and what's replaced it.

hello again the welcome to spotlight the interview show on our to try and albert nobbs and today my guest is peter green. the youngest of our cinema has nonetheless had a rich and eventful list and it's still undergoing rapper transformation. so much that some artists and critics suggest it's no more the good old motion pictures with. the legendary british filmmaker peter bring like it is

a living contradiction he believes cinema as done right which continues to work on his new movie does that mean there is something off the bat disagreeing with a nokia. peter greenaway he's best known as a british filmmaker and director of some most important contemporary movies but he doesn't feel entirely a director has tried many different occupations like painting writing and b.j. and he defines himself as a hybrid or an image maker or the person who translates ideas into visual terms a few years ago peter greenaway bird cinema saying it had long been dead particularly he died in nine hundred eighty three after the remote controls up or has been invented since then greenway says cinema has to be interactive multimedia art. thank you very much for being with us tonight as well as this phrase of yours about. death of the cinema i think that has been

asked every time you give any any interview this is this is what people start and maybe when they finish with so that let's let's stick to that tradition why do you think that thirty years on most of the people still believe it was a lie what did they listen to the world i've been trying to say these things i suppose ever since the beginnings of my disenchantment with this curious phenomenon called cinema probably in the early nineties but i do think that i've seen over the last twenty years more and more and more people agreeing with me there is of course a huge nostalgia for what used to be called i suppose the seventh art but i think it's primarily for our fathers and our forefathers basically cinema all over the world was created as a cheap form of dumbed down into tame for the proletariat i don't know didn't speak for russia but the proletariats now disappeared from western europe well bush one

hour so we need new things to remember what lenin said for us the most important arts are cinema and the circus well there's a connection there isn't a cinema came out of the circus of the variety show maybe you ought to go back there again but i think you know the obvious reasons and again i can't really profoundly talk about russia but all over the west you know cinemas have been closing closing closing turning into bowling alleys whatever else and i think you know people's people's habits for entertainment become much more pluralistic there are far more things to do than just concentrate on going to the cinema and i think that you know all the contemporary digital revolution phenomena like the social media mean that a lot of people are watching screens but they're not watching screens in so my doc to them is absent them and i think the statistic for holland is that the average dutch citizen probably only goes to cinema once in two years that doesn't sound to me to be very healthy for. the cinema if when you live in them studio and you do

need cinema you can just look out of the window your switch of the light in your room a look out of the wind early was. the red light district to kill us and you often think about this. i made a movie not so ago called prosperous books and it was the most profound line said by the character prosper he said and now let my every third thought be of the grave i don't walk around carrying a skull and sleeping in a coffin but it's my next great adventure. what do you know about death you know anything about i think there are only two subject matters and i'm sure you could agree one is sex and the others death their greeks have a good way of saying it they refer to the infinite us the very very beginning and the very very end and that's all the unless your name is salvador dali i don't think you can claim to be really sentience really around at the moment of your conception and i think perhaps the moment of death you know the banishing point and how can we understand what that vanishing point about you know about sex suggested

there was a third subject matter which was money but i think money's only really coming back to sex and death he wanted to avoid one and pay for the other shakespeare suggested maybe and maybe he was thinking of russia that the big subject matter is power but our power i'm quite sure is only a way to negotiate our way again around sex and england in shakespeare's times was more like russia than russia today so probably he was thinking of england when he was writing. what i mean i think you know whether you're a nun or a serial killer we're all deeply deeply fascinated by sex it's a perennial subject matter which deeply intrigues us and i think a good job too otherwise you and i would not be here but you can investigate sex well you can't investigate what it's supposed to be the new pornographic from tyranny that again i don't know what your attitude again in here in russia is but there's a way people try and tidy it away we're all very much aware that it's

a. credibly difficult for example to have a good death do you think you're going to have a good death and what does that mean does that mean you just told me you have a wife and a child will you be in the bosom of your family when you die or will you be in a nursing home or will you be thrown out to rot somewhere like society basically throws most of its old people my grandmother who literally raised me she knew two things first of all she said the communist propaganda is telling me that a good death is like is like a live man carrying a flag in your hands and being shot in the battle she said no for me a good death she said is during sleep i want to go to sleep having good thoughts have been prepared to god and like me that this is what she considered to be or a you know what i was thinking i would say what the great blessing as a dying is you never know when it's going to happen but i think that's a little was the interval thing about though no i think that's a curse because if we all knew when we were going to die we might live a lot better no it was awful i think so would you do you think you'd leave live

a normal i think feeney's well you know well i on the third say yes i do that ok ok well two thousand and i was happy birthday today's your birthday here's the injection and i think there is a way what is it seven billion people in the world far too many people and i don't think anybody after eighteen makes any contribution to civilization ok you might be a grandad rocking the rocking chair but that's hardly you know giving and civilisation anything back so i think you know with seven billion people behind you you want to move out of the way and create space for somebody else just to me that my grandmother may be may have been the only person who knew more than they knew this so what she also used to say is oh i may be ugly there is always ugly do you believe that i don't i mean let me ask you a question what do you think of the world before you existed there's a big blank empty space for millions of years before you ever came into the television studio is that any different from the millions of years. it will exist

after you've gone i strongly believe that nothing ever have happened before i existed and nothing will live on the world as a divine piece of russian arrogance yes i like it to be to be this way because i have no proof and i will never get any proof that there will be something after me that's why i ask you is that something else is there are you saying you don't know what you know basically you know i'm not going to behave like pascal and edge my bets but i sincerely believe in nothing no i am indeed a very twenty first century atheist and i believe that's it we will talk about a few years about just getting back getting back to now questions like death and sex use are largely hardly but i'll go your way but you said a lot about that already if you read them what's number one for you the deference. has to be creation procreation you have all the chicken in the question i have i have four children six grandchildren i'm

a profound elwyn in est i think we're here to fuck and pass on crosses racial you know whether you're a zebra a fleer a mosquito a human being the continuity is important no more all of us just two cases for containing the genetic material so i think the main purpose is to make sure we're part of the continuity well another quote another quote quote for from peter greenway when journalists runs out of questions the star quality starts quick but think he's interviewing every medium has to be redeveloped otherwise we would still be looking at cave paintings new electronic filmmaking means the potential for expanding the notions of cinema and has become very rich indeed and quote that that was peter greenaway how do you see the cinema of the twenty first century which which media will use i mean well i think you're going to. have it is dying we're coming to the end. as

a social habit people just don't go to the cinema anymore but i do think we're in the age of the screen self evidently that's where we are in television studio so there will be a normal six panshin of what we could score cinema outside of cinema you know they say the definition of existence now is being on film if you're not on film you don't exist so i think the continuation of everything has to do with amazing digital revolution world profoundly excite and stimulate you know there's something in the human psyche that demands an audio visual splendor ancient greeks had a way of doing it the romans did many evil church did then for three hundred fifty years there was the opera opera died in one thousand nine hundred eighteen when the cinema took over so there's always a new medium picks up where the last one left off the diet will know you i think there's a confusion here and some sloppy thinking there are six major forms of entertainment which were probably in bed by the samir eons a long time before greece and they've always stayed with us military take my favorite one which is painting all i have to do take

a look grease on the side of my nose make a mark on the table i'm making a painting very very simple technology just think how complicated is the technology for example of this film studio and indeed any film studio of the last hundred seventeen years if i pull the plug out goes it disappears but i can go on taking the grease from the side of my nose and making marks for ever and ever and ever and i believe the very first significant market were made by man was a painting when civilization goes down the tubes as it surely will the last march will also be a painting. making money. is sharing information to you but you do not like the texts you know texas is different from image an image of military text not an image and i think you know if you believe the cinema was invented in one thousand nine hundred five then there's a way that in the one hundred seventeen years since then we have been basing cinema on the notions of text you have never seen a film that did not. start life with the text one of the big subject matters

recently would be things like lord the rings and harry potter he told us he's illustrated books but you could say the same for almud over the last one tria whoever your hero is so we have a tech space cinema and i think that's very sad says peter greenaway film director spotlighted will be back shortly after we take a break so stay with us we'll continue this interview in less. wealthy british style.

market why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max cons are the no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kaiser report. there hasn't been anything yet on t.v. . it is to get the maximum political impact. before source material is what helps keep journalism honest we. thought. we wanted to present. something else. welcome back to spotlight has not been just

a reminder that my years here on the show is peter greenaway though well known film director and as it turns out he turns out to be a very interesting person to it's not if you do thank you very much once again for coming well you know where we are having that little chat with me before this program you said that democracy is that well i'm not surprised you saying that because most of the filmmakers are very sour tyrion well i think you are you two are you two are pretty to tell it arrogance as a film director well yes there's a reason you hate more democracy i don't hate democracy you know winston churchill famously said it's a deeply imperfect system but it's the best we've got so far but it does seem to be evidence doesn't they're all over the place if you watch for example the republican bid to become presidency of america and we can see most of the debates are held basically as regards for money for votes in the situation of commercialization of

trying to promote propaganda which is very much based on how much money you got in the bank and i suppose belgium recently didn't have a government for eighteen months holland at the moment where i live doesn't have a government and you can see all this struggling to make a sensible consideration of where the euro is it just takes too long for people to make their minds up. you know the notion is that ideas you know need to be attacked immediately in sort of the same afternoon that they happen and we've seen the disappointments of the arab spring for example we seem to be circling right back to where we began again socrates was forced to take poison in three hundred b.c. because he was against notions of democracy because he said quite rightly you can only have a satisfactory democracy if the electorate is knowing knowledgeable and intelligent and it's very very difficult. satisfy that necessity so democracy is good for the

you'll eat i wouldn't so should have as what i don't know american democracy two hundred years ago when there was democracy for the whites and all the rest and although i do think you're making everyone leave the state by associating education with elite you're really sound like a victorian not a member of the twenty first century. is democracy anyway the right i am asking as a film director and as a person is thinking about democracy is democracy the right way to do to do things to make something worthwhile well in my of my worry is if i'm going to complain about democracy what on earth are we going to put in its place we don't want to return to monarchy we don't want any sort of totalitarian supremacy here when the only answer really round this conundrum is to make sure our education systems are more profound more approachable to everybody and to continually produce not only simply you know the for our educational process but to teach

citizenship the notion of being a responsible citizen and making a contribution you know to this extraordinary phenomenon we have of civilization civilization works despite all the inadequacies despite all the injustices there are seven billion people on earth again profound darwinists there would not be seven billion people on earth if civilization did not work. no many people worry are very much worried about the fact that in the so-called civilized countries the including russia by the way in the governments seem to be trying to destroy the system of higher education is it true and why why they do you know it's a bit like the roman catholic church and their argument with galileo knowledge is bad for those who greedily want to hang on to power you know there's one man on earth now nelson mandela extraordinary he spent years and years in prison being deeply deeply persecuted he comes free he develops

a situation where he becomes president of south africa then after his term is up he relinquishes power it's impossible isn't it almost now in the world. we think you know countries in south america as well as russia for people to be able to be profound enough to be mature enough to give up power. maybe that's where we ought to organize if we are going to continue notions of democracy to try and proselytize that essential truth so when somebody says power to the people he should meet education i think that you know it's an old old argument and it was talked about by rousseau and pascal you know before the french revolution but again you know you got to have to find out because in a sense that all maybe education is subjective anyway so if you're going to have an educational system we must make sure profoundly works that there are good aged person he comes to realising that neither money nor power to make you happy i don't

know do you want to be happy is it important for you to be happy yes and how do you think you will be i don't know making a good death might be one thing maybe. maybe maybe this is this is why me and you are thinking about it because as you know you know you and i will add you to disillusion with the cinema a long time ago i would i would say who's in charge of this in chandler i got disenchanted with television long but we both continue do it in to do what we're doing well you know all about all the most insane people forgot that that that makes sense ask each other is there something there should be something to make us out there listen i have a confession to make i love watching your movies i agree there masterpieces but i'm not getting your message and i do really understand today after time talking to you for twenty minutes i got more than i got from all of your films that's my confession but i suspect that ninety percent of my fellow viewers

feel the same but they will never admit that because because watching peter greenaway and talking about peter green may is like belonging to the elite you know so aren't you the greatest creator of hypocrisy of this plan a lot of. talk about education and all forms of sophisticated culture are elitist you know just because you've got eyes doesn't mean to say you can see you have to be trained to see just as you've been trained to speak in russian syllable was meant to be the last only tested will tell you that a little better liberal give us west notice of but in all the best really best i suppose notions of culture have always have to be the question of training and we have to provide the ways and means that that training can absolutely happen you didn't fall out of the womb learning how to speak russian and you certainly took a long time probably seven or eight years learning how to write it and these things

have to be part of a process and in the old days i suppose right up to the beginning of the twentieth century. most people in the world were illiterate and i suppose what we've seen in the last century the ability now for people all over the world across all the language barriers to be here and to be able to communicate through this phenomenon called the first gothenburg revolution of creation the printing press our lot of people will argue the digital revolution now is the second guttenberg revolution and for me that's a way of making us all visually literate because i sincerely and i'm looking at you and imagining you two are visually illiterate. can remain religious without being hypocritical you started talking about religion i know the thinking is speaking about religion this is important to you also what i mean is when i read your critical remarks about the church about the clergy i get a feeling that you are you are trying to reject the hypocrisy of it not the you

know not the faith in my rights world very boldly and arrogantly i will say i have more religion in my little finger than the pope but that doesn't mean to say i have any trouble whatsoever with notions of christianity which i think has been a most amazingly entertaining and elaborate mythology but it's a mythology i think in the old testament it says and then god made man in his own image whereas exactly the opposite is true but i think the vatican now for example has given up on europe is now concentrating on those countries where mythology is still possible which would be africa and south america and i think we're seeing the garage fall slow demise of christianity all over the world and i'm hoping that the other religions will follow suit. when you say think of your is in the. some of the floor of the jungle and saying that we are more important in jesus christ do you think he was right there were deals more important than jesus well you know i think you know the great two figures of antiquity jesus christ and

alexander the great they both died at the age of thirty three st augustine said we all. go to heaven aged thirty three so there's significant but i think you know alexander the great and jesus christ the really the same man alexander came with a sword and jesus christ could only come with a kiss so if we all have you know i love that when so we can sin now because actually we we anyway you know really well you know there was in the medieval period there was a great problem people would come to same and gaston who was obviously a teacher of the church and said look there's not much point me going to heaven if i'm in a diaper and i'm shitting my nappy and it's not much point me going if i'm leaning on a stick i'm not going join myself so people are very troubled about this st augustine came up with the theory that everybody should go to heaven indeed at the same time as christ died on the cross aged thirty three but if you think about it that's quite profound thirty three are still young enough not to be too cynical and you've probably got all your facilities and you can still run a marathon so there's a way your you know you're beyond the age of promise but you're not really i

suppose approaching your sinhala t. and dotage ideal age it'd mean i'm going to both fifty questions that my research is really wrote for me to ask you know they're pretty good ones among them haven't started yet one of them you hate the camera saying that it can't think so how come you get the best photographers to work for it. well you know i think there are four tyrannies you asked me at the beginning of this interview why i think cinema is dying and i can tell you all these things about cinema from the outside are declining audiences asserter but i think cinema is destroying itself from it in that because first of all it's a text based medium cinema knows this way always goes back to the bookshop and i think we have to get rid of the notion of text in cinema and that's tyranny number one surely number two. a cinema works with a frame we are now in a frame here frame is totally artificial there's no equivalent whatsoever in nature

when i look at you i don't see you in a frame when you look at me you don't see me in a frame it's much more so. sedating complicated you know that my work is different my work your friend don't know know i've always said that to my students our work is to widen the view beyond that for a while noting that you've got to multiply the many famously god said when you go to the cinema two thirds of the world behind your head because you're only looking in one direction how on earth can that be a representation of life very very miserably he also said you know when we go to the cinema in the dark you know what the hell are you doing in the dark manslaughter nocturnal animals so we have to explode that idea my third terran a would be you know we have to change the position of the actor in the cinema the cinema is not a playground for sharon stone it is a lot matt that's not because of sharon stone it's because the way we use her and then again coming to your question maybe the last turn is tyranny of the camera the camera is a very very stupid object it's an emetic it'll only reproduce what you put in front of it and therefore it can hardly be very creative peter green very thirty minutes

is definitely not his for a material i'm sorry by we're going to have time to i'm sorry that that that his problems too short for people like you thanks very much for being with us and just to remind you that film director peter greenberg was my guest that's it for now but must be back with more. on what's going on in ten outside russia until then stay in the party and take a. thank you. i

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