silver investors guard. called today eight hundred two five seven. net and are two we've told you a lot about these cyber legislation snaking their way through congress and what it means for your internet freedoms but what is co-founder of apple steve was the act have to say about it r t has the exclusive interview with the man who helped shape technology into what it is today. and from one apple to another you watch your weight by exercising and eating healthy but who's watching the farm lobby in the legislation they're trying to sneak through congress coming up we'll tell you who is planting the seeds of lawmakers had that help the farm bill will affect you and from the days of the five food groups to g.m. lowe's and space food are a taste palettes have come a long way along with the meals we consume daily coming up a look at the future of food.

it's friday august tenth eight pm here in washington d.c. i'm liz wahl and you're watching artsy. begin today by taking a close look at cyber legislation the aim to regulate the internet with the failure of the most recent cyber bill in the senate and a possible obama executive order it seems the government is looking for other ways to beef up internet protection the head of cyber command general keith alexander also head of the n.s.a. has come out asking the administration to review the rules when it comes to cyber attacks currently the pentagon is only allowed to defend against attacks inside its own boundaries but they're now hoping to expand that power to outside of their own computer networks and within foreign countries this comes after a day after because fair ski allows identified another apparent state sponsored virus with links to stocks not and flame so as heavy speculation swirl. around the

future of the internet we here at r.t.c. sat down with someone who had a clearer hand in creating our current cyber climate steve was the act co-founder of apple speaks to our t's abby martin about net neutrality his fear that freedom of the internet could become a thing of the past feels a weighs in on kim dotcom and the case against him. as co-founder of one of the largest companies in the world do you think that you have a responsibility to speak out about issues like internet regulation i don't think anyone comes with a responsibility just because their company is really big especially since i'm not the one who wanted to run a company just be a great engineer that helped start it so i don't feel that anybody has a responsibility however i do like it when well known people that are in the public eye speak out on social issues and give their opinion what do think about legislation like so and people and why you think that they were so unpopular it turns out that the well the internet when it first came it was a breath of fresh air it was so free nobody own the internet space countries didn't

own it they didn't control it it was worldwide it was people to people it was like we little people the world all of a sudden had this incredible resource and we didn't have to go through other people selling it to us and delivering it to us that has changed a lot but still those were items that were kind of against just being able to use the wires to send whatever you thought of to somebody else who's a friend or whatever sharing sharing data so a lot of people have done that sort of thing they have freely shared a song maybe a song with son or maybe they've shared another file with another good friend and they just don't want interference now sure it's illegal to share copyrighted material fine there are laws in place but these were new laws that were going to just totally try to put up roadblocks to services that had other very good purposes in our life for example i might make a promotional video for an interview like this and then i'll email it to you well it's too big to email so i'll upload it to a little site maybe it's dropbox maybe it's my apple ideas maybe it's make upload

upload to a site and send you the u.r.l. and now you can download it and i do that regularly i heard you previously talking about kim dotcom is case. and you know you mentioned that the charges against him or pretty much phony a lot more on what you meant by that yes first of all he ran. one of the largest file sharing services in the world so the most movies and all were being exchanged by people through that site it's not a site where you could link connect to it and say search for avatar there was no searching somebody could upload a file and then pass out a u.r.l. on their own and they're violating the law if it's copyright material like a movie and the person who downloads is violating a law too but the what kim dot com rant is just a service that's like a post office he was the post office it was being mailed through winding shut down the post office thinking that's where the problem is it's not so that was a phony charge they tried to charge him with a copyright violation himself for uploading sixty songs or something but they had

come off of c.d.'s he had purchased so they say it was all these attempts that i call phony then they had to figure out a way to extradite him they needed a crime that would get him five years in prison to meet the law the new zealand law for extradition so they made up phony charges of racketeering like he's some big mobster connecting you know a big financial empire and all these countries i mean apple does that but kim dotcom is just such a nice soft little sweet guy when you meet him who tells the truth openly you know that you know when somebody is being truthful when you're with them personally and he doesn't hide things he doesn't share he doesn't have concocted lines to tell he's not a. racketeer there's a they charge him with mail fraud because he said i deleted some files and what he had done was delete the links to them it's like if you have a computer and you take a file and you throw in the trash. the file is still on your hard disk it didn't really get a raised the link is gone you can't find it any more by that link so that's a phony charge really had they got rid of the one part you could get rid of to make

it look as though it was deleted the phony charges just indicate that they're going to they're doing everything they can to make the public think they the prosecutors are in the right you know but you don't do phony things when you're in the right you have an open and shut case not their having their having to go be on the bounds of what's what's right to try to convict him what kind of precedent do you think this sets for just government overstepping i've read a lot about how they confiscated his data files actually took them to the united states and they didn't have the right to do that it's it's yeah the trouble is we developed what sort of rights you have to have against accusers meaning the police and the prosecutors they're the accusers presumption of innocence means the burden of proof is on the accuser they have to prove things you have the right to be notified what you're being charged of you have a right to you know a lot of different rights that make sure you're being treated fairly and prosecutors and governments are found every way they can to get around those rights and that's what bothers me is that you know if they want to convict you of

something you didn't do they have an awful lot of techniques to do it lot of ways to do it you founded the electronic frontier foundation to protect free speech should the principle of the first amendment be protected with something like wiki leaks free speech is not absolute in my mind it's a very important right it has to go through considerations of did you violate it in ways that might be hurt somebody else some free speech could actually trigger harmful events could trigger even murders so it does murdering and an abortion doctor count as free speech no there are limits to free speech i don't know in the case of wiki leaks. i don't know where that's going to fall out so i think there are limitations in terms of kind of opening or protecting all free speech online and the war on whistleblowers will. all free speech online i was brought up with the belief that the first amendment was such a good thing every every one of our bill of rights in the united states was so

crucial to my heart the way my dad taught me but free speech meant you could say something bad about the president even you could say something bad about your government you had that right and we were taught you don't have that right in communist russia so i believe in that right very strongly. as far as as far as wiki leaks i wish i knew more about the whole case for on the surface it sounds to me like something that's that's good the whistleblower blew the truth the people found out what they the people had paid for you know and the government says no no no the people should not know what they paid for growing up in a generation where you've seen the internet proliferate into something so massive and where political and social movements are birds online now what do you think it's about the evolution of the internet and how apple has really played a role in expanding that to people you know when we started the company i always go back to that point did we have a vision of computers being prolific in everybody's hands throughout society yes did we have the idea that it would lead to you know the incredible connection that

the internet would come on board that broadband would come on board for almost everyone wants it and that that would lead to all these you know basically the way we live life in the way we do things everything political everything social the way we do things with other people is all done with your computer on the internet with your i phones with your mobile devices now and it's a totally different world than it was when will we have powerful computers but they weren't a part of your life as much as now and i'm just as happy as everyone else to see it having turned out this way how do you see it going do you think that it will still continue or do you think that will kind of. curb i mean but the political and social movements now where everything's integrated everything's being homogenized in the entire world and we're seeing the arab spring the occupy wall street movement really because of social interaction yes. that a lot of social interaction will be curbed i want to take that back i theory i fear it will be that the gate keepers those who can turn on and off switches allow

certain things disallow other things allow who gets to send me data about a new movie rather than everyone have an equal say so of reaching me yeah i fear that very strongly that especially net neutrality issues like that internet freedom is being interfered with in major ways and it shouldn't i think the internet should have been considered from day one a country of its own that isn't bound by any individual country's laws maybe we could have an internet government but it didn't happen just like world government doesn't happen you know space doesn't belong to anyone the moon doesn't belong to anyone these are really beautiful principles in life and then as soon as a country figures out a way to get control of them it disappears i'm an optimist and i believe we can move more and more towards net neutrality the trouble is a lot of it has to be enforced by the government and conservative types and libertarian types say government shouldn't have any say in control over that that takes away our freedom wrong it takes away the freedom of the companies that are taking away the freedom from us every freedom we have in the united states

every one of them was given to us by congressional regulation it's called the bill of rights. that that is what gives us our freedom and yet it was from the government was government regulation no there are times when government regulation says you will not impede with the internet neutrality of the users but what do you think about this whole hacktivism movement that's come out of kind of you know the war on whistleblowers and the occupy wall street and anonymous and you have you know these takedowns of government websites and then you see legislation lexis the cyber intelligence security and protection act that kind of puts a stop to these things you think that that's kind of working as a guys. and using the hacktivism and hacktivists to kind of regulate the internet even more so i really think that there are means for legitimate discourse and trying to bring attention with activist x. is wrong on the other hand i believe very strongly in legitimized marches and that

sort of stuff you know with the approval of the authorities there's room in our society to go out and have a microphone and to have a say and be heard by so many others especially in this day of the internet so there are a lot of avenues it's just trying to you know grab something to get on the news and i don't think that's the way to maybe it's a start it puts ideas in people's heads but i really. i don't i don't think that's the right way to solve things and he said before that no one really has the responsibility to speak out about anything but why why do you steve why do you speak out and why do you think so many others don't about these issues you know what the whole world is very conflict oriented we want to take a side and fight for my side my side might be my country it might be my computer platform it might be which browser i use and i take my side and everybody else is bad and i want to fight it and i only want to look at the world one way and i'm the i try to be so wide open and just you know accept everything and judge it that's the logical scientific you know approach don't take

a side don't be like for one religion against others that sort of thing thank you so much for your time those are two. abby martin with apple co-founder steve wozniak. let's take a look now at a piece of legislation that should be coming up for a vote soon but one that congress seems to keep putting off it's called the farm bill and is restructured and renewed every five years far from a simple bill to help farmers the bill is all encompassing and deals with everything from food to biofuels to food stamps and as our correspondent christine frizz our reports there's a growing concern that powerful lobbying interests will have a major impact of the future of food in this country. for those facing hard times places like this do still exist in most major cities washington d.c. included and the need is growing exponentially since two thousand and eight there has been a twenty five percent increase the number of families saying your citizens will

need our food assistance the capital area food bank provides food to organizations who distribute it to those in need many part of the supplemental nutrition assistance program or snap formerly known as food stamps it's a program facing extreme cuts in the upcoming farm bill at snap a skirt a person literally that's getting less let's say one hundred dollars the snap could have their benefit reduced to maybe fifty to sixty dollars and this is a person that maybe has a family of three or four people in fifty sixty or fifty or sixty dollars that go a long way. after that they must go elsewhere but programs like this are far more complicated than they see the rules and regulations laid out in the complex and large piece of legislation so this is the current version of the form bill that the house is debating in the summer so this is double sided. really half the pages in its newly released report cultivating influence the two thousand and eight farm

bill lobbying frenzy food and water watch breaks down the forces behind the ingredients of the bill an example of too many cooks in the kitchen over the course of the bait of the two thousand and eight farm bill over a thousand and to tease new companies trade associations groups lobbied they spend one hundred seventy three million dollars was our calculation so who has the greatest influence when it comes to setting food policy in the united states many experts say it's actually wal-mart they've got nearly four thousand stores across this country many of them super centers and in just the last fifteen years have gone from about six percent to twenty five percent of total. grocery sale that means not just more profit but much much more power other major lobbying influences include monsanto kraft foods the american sugar alliance and the national restaurant association whose money speaks louder than those who receive help from

places like this. the great need by people has resulted in food banks needing more and more space are open to live free with forty eight thousand square feet our new food distribution center with one hundred twenty three thousand square feet and with that greater need of facing the deeper cuts it could be a recipe for hardship for more and more americans in washington christine for sound r t ok bring up this subject of food a lot of talk now about the way americans shop for food is changing according to the national association of convenience stores food items account for a sixteen point nine percent a record one hundred ninety five billion dollars of convenience store sales and night two thousand and eleven so that means americans are more and more turning to convenience stores to shop for food seems like it's becoming another fast food option all jeff lenard vice president of industry advocacy at the national association of convenience stores joined me earlier and talked about this growing

trend. well the trend of having stores with more really harkens back to a certain sense of the old days where drug stores used to have a soda jerks you know they sold sandwiches think there's while convenience stores a lot of the same used to be so i don't know used to be the stumble at the stores what we've seen over the last few years is that in terms of our business very well the key demand for gas is two thousand and eight so we're gradually seeing less. and that is where you show the revenue driver which stores and so profit. cigarette sales also on the line so you're seeing retailers or it's who or what however was their life and you're talking about nuts they're east's fruit produce sandwiches you're talking about more food the opportunity for the future but at the same time customers want more time so you're seeing that twenty two percent of

furniture stores now sell so you know if you know what it is people are also becoming yorkers they want to know how they want to eat on the go that's those are the three friends we're seeing right now that you made the argument that convenience stores as we perceive them today will go from gas stations that sell food to food stores that happen to sell gas is that what you think is. essentially what's happening i think that's one of those things that's going to take ten years years and it's only thing look up and say things that happen if you see examples of that across the country but by studying the examples i guess it's also showing there's still a ways to go i thought i was in a new store outside of dallas fort worth that actually no great loss there yes just unbelievable the laurel is so great great things there have been the stores that sell sushi in the institution so we're seeing that evolution people have to measure it wasn't too long ago there people thought who gets you to change and has the

palate. people are more open to nice healing who you're seeing there also saying people who give it and could be a source of irish if they're great in the stores they're doing a small but the goal is restaurant quality food convenience store the baby is the speed of service and the way. ok and when you think convenience are you kind of think small mom and pop are already or seven eleven doria are there gas stations but what about gigantic wal marts that that kind of one stop shopping and that how does that plan to everything. when you're competing when you're an easy to other big wal-mart it makes you have to look at how you do so in terms of can be a source wal-mart offers a lot of great things that a lot of stuff just if you're a convenience store located near a wal-mart there might actually be opportunity for you there because you may be

able to get somebody that doesn't want after that they are flocking to all those living to get that wal-mart's there so a lot of retailers don't like to be here wal-mart has good reason some can take advantage of that by emphasizing that they're a place to get stuff that. while marceau's you know a lot of the say well who every other retailer is how do you get somebody what they want it looks like price they can feel good about it on their way wal-mart i think the average very close or what our our stores the average experience both reported it's all right so we are seeing this trending clearly more people are turning to convenience stores to get their food just what does that mean in terms of american health we're already seeing this obesity epidemic how is this playing into into that. well there's two parts of the equation calories is a calorie so looking at what's happening in terms of obesity i'll address the calories. what you're seeing in the wars is not necessarily solely for food but

more options as well so you go to be it so it's not difficult to find something like yogurt or dried berries or root or sushi or sandwiches anything. you want to debate about the stores over some of the work for the chalet thought of the best quick service restaurant you probably have a little bit more options what is an offer you aren't necessarily with. jeff lenard vice president of industry advocacy at the national association of convenience stores. i want to zero in now on a specific food ever since industrial agriculture has started producing tomatoes they've begun looking the same that's with us consumers want the right best reddest roundest tomatoes and big businesses give them just that the question though is what producing genetically identical tomatoes does for their taste a nutritional value to find out more about what's happened to our tomatoes i was

joined by barry estabrook author of the made a lab how modern industrial agriculture destroyed our most alluring for. thirty or forty years. her merry way for one thing. didn't support the series perfect looking tomatoes and everything else when a window reader went to the window. you christian want to know and we've ended up with the hard maters we have. and it is so can you talk about what that essentially does to the tomato i mean we have some tomatoes here they look they look almost exactly alike they look good but really what is a do to their nutritional value. and to the taste what what does that essentially do to these nice looking tomatoes. you know that are both the praise the conductor

who made the better your mind my opinion is that if they don't taste like anything you're ahead of the game you don't have some sort of all but interesting way a modern radio like the one you're holding there are far far fewer vitamin and mineral than the other nutrients other important nutrients like light in the beer antioxidant been a tomato that you can pick up in the grocery store and i'm going to think it's good we're to our vitamin three much more than you go right down the line well they'll have less than they did fifty years ago and how did this happen i mean is this ultimately giving is this driven by customer demand. no it's driven by what the farmers are paid for one large tomato farmer in florida quite honestly told me when i brought the subject up to me said barry i don't get paid a cent to play i don't get paid spent in nutrition i get paid for so there was no room. for readers to create. tasty and nutritious

tomatoes and a lot of incentive for them to create plants that just sort of wandered to overdrive with huge quantities. tasteless tomato and i know that a third of all fresh tomatoes and grown in the usa come from florida where they're bred to look this way what are the downsides to having having them around their well it's if you're familiar with border you're going to call the sunshine state. and it seems like revered a good place to grow tomatoes. from a from a commercial perspective you would have to be cool to try to grow tomatoes are going to play for florida the reason is is florida for all of the lore is extremely new and there's nothing that will kill the middle class quicker then you're getting everything every bargain and reducing your degree from guests that will commit a crime committed. so when it possible to have

a tomato that's red ripe and alicia's can we bring back those tomatoes that are good for you are they don't forget though they're not in fact. they're coming back and researchers at the university of florida or very close to coming out with a tomato that actually delivers flavor. here nutritious. and can withstand the indignities of industrial production little worldly widely on the market in the next decade there's no reason it can't be built. into recent years will people will show during this debate the premium made and ultimately i mean when you have these tomatoes that i mean they look good but they're lacking a nutritional content i mean that's affecting america's diet. we particularly because we so much so many tomatoes and tomato products when you think

about all the things you hold both all the fresh tomatoes and salad we need a huge quantity so a lot of our nutrients go to native. and they absolutely i mean americans we like to catch up on everything right. i know that in your book you talk about you know the conditions in florida of the field where these are grown can you talk about that well in the worst case scenario absolute abject like no other word for it and it's been many cases with the team from britain to breed in the order. in the past fifteen or so years and we're talking about. being locked in chains or shackles and chains at night being beaten if you don't work hard on them being. killed if you try to escape and of course people being in school on the part of the road in florida just like just like just what is that

sound like it can be not well very this sounds awful that it sounds like black and human rights violation sounds exactly like you describe it like slavery how it how is it able to happen in florida. it's not like where you were it is when a prosecutor. and like a sixty two hundred plays to. be prosecuted under the thirteenth amendment of the constitution which is the amendment that reads. they do it because there are. unscrupulous pre-board who and go anywhere interested in making things that really expensive for them so often will work in any corner and you can score later. the area also going back to food i also we have we have a bunch of food related offense augmented and i'm looking at the of bananas here and they also look the same day and they they appear to be uniform like meat some

made owes it is could there be a similar scenario playing out with bananas and other fruits and vegetables little cinemas you hold like almost every other commercial where manna in the world. are things overriding covered and. it's wonderful to hear your infection well you know inadequate plantations in certain areas of the world. you know when you've got fingers so genetic research. this isn't there any any year infections that will cure will so ultimately i mean with this speed effect of you know food being becoming more commercialized and and even when we talk a lot about the power of the lobbyists and the amount of lobbying dollars that goes into agriculture and food is this some ultimately it in effect of all that you. change is the getting over the supermarket business in. giant companies like

wal-mart or now the biggest grocery store. in america. and huge other grocery chain. all getting by these huge wind organizations are reporting downward pressure on prices. or the great any short break. that was barry estabrook author of the book tomato land and we're going to leave it off there for more on the stories we covered you can check out our you tube channel we pose all of our interviews in full that is you tube dot com slash our team america and check out stories that we don't always have time to get to on the air our web producer is our busy work in a way that's our teeth dot com slash usa and you can also follow me at liz wall on twitter we'll be back here at ten pm to see that. the the.