way and it's not because we may not be number one in the amount of arms we sell you know we sell about three quarters of all the arms abroad or have the greatest military power but because we lost our moral stature and values of who we are as a people our influence of broad should be the influence of example period we should have self defense but not preemptive war for everywhere ok where we are now what lives are lost in the world these are all nice things jeffrey how did we get to this point then. well first of all let me say in terms of and terms of what bruce has just said and i should note here for the record that bruce is a former colleague from the reagan administration although we've not met and i can't see him i recognize his distinctive voice and it's safe to say that bruce reflects what i think has become a difference among conservatives about america's role in the world and i certainly would challenge the thought that congressman paul has expressed and that proves just tried to do a thumbnail there of that we have never been in

a situation where we've gone abroad and done all these things until relatively modern history he quotes john quincy adams who of course was the secretary of state for james monroe who instituted the monroe doctrine which basically drew a line around the western hemisphere i.e. outside the borders of the united states and said if you come here you're going to have trouble so we have been getting involved in affairs outside our borders since the very beginning of this country's formal founding as the united states that said i certainly think that with the changes with the with the end of the soviet union the end of the cold war i think that there have been a lot of changes in this world are self-evident to everyone the rise of islamic terrorism. we need to have a strong economy we can do that and i would note about the clip from h.b.o. when writer aaron sorkin who pans the words and is a you know a famous hollywood liberal you can take those words and go back retroactively apply

them to any time in american history if i mean the issue here is very strongly very fine stay with you do you think the united states had to fame kind of debt problems . you know thirty years ago forty years ago fifty years ago a hundred example no no no and i that we we we certainly have the same kind of debt we certainly are in a perilous situation here with that with the debt situation there's no question about that i mean as if you've noticed that the republican national convention they have the debt clock up there inside the hall that is running second by second by second so certainly people are extremely well aware of this but what i am saying to you is there any given moment in american history there have been problems i remember hearing the notion that in the end that summation there by jeff daniels who was the actor you were you were focusing on he talks about how we did all these impossible things where one of those things was going to the moon and i certainly remember i'm old enough to remember this i last i have to say that there were

people in the day who said we should have a space program and they cited they went through the litany of the day as to as to why that we should be spending our money on education we should be doing this that and the other thing so that attitude has been around for a very very long time here but we had the money to pay for it i mean i don't i hate anyone my goal here let me go to michael here michael do you think today's america is the same as any other time in history i find that very hard to believe. no i don't think as new newt gingrich has i don't think we can colonize mars i don't think we have that budget i think that's unrealistic and the you know the debt and the military spending is unrealistic that we need to be that high and it seems it seems out of proportion to the past but it seems like the attitude of the average american and our global reputation this is it and all time low

ok bruce you want to jump in there and we're still leadership here number we are still sure what i'm going to get into you know people talk about the republicans and the democrats you know i live far away from that it looks like a lot of nonsense to me because it all looks like it's finger pointing no one's taking responsibility. well i thought the thinking was you know tomorrow he said that it's going to bruce go ahead yes i mean it was once said that you know the difference between a communist and capitalist is one believes in the exploitation of man by man and the other is the opposite and here we have the republicans and democrats you know they they one believes that the government shouldn't be used to help one side against the other and the other believes the opposite i think with regard to these issues of global is you know projection of military force everywhere in the world there's not an inch of difference between the democrats and republicans when i go back to challenge jeffrey i do not believe at the outset we're involved in foreign entanglements everywhere we didn't get involved in the up evils in central in latin america shortly after our own revolution or even the french revolution itself and

george washington declared neutrality it wasn't until the mexican american war which john quincy adams opposed where he had this idea of manifest destiny that enabled us to be the imperialist going around the globe and then we continued on that trajectory until you know we only come up to a debt problem now at sixteen trillion dollars and it's typical of empires just before they collapse to believe well if we can cut it we've encountered these before it'll all go the same way and the that was it's true of the soviet union just before it collapsed in one thousand nine hundred one everyone said well we've encountered these problems before you know it is not things and nothing's new is on the horizon but that's simply not how empires collapse it's typically in a precipice not over a long period ok jeff you want to reply to that before we go to break. go ahead yeah yeah yeah i would say we're there ronald reagan used to say bruce and i'm sure you remember this that freedom is not passed along in the bloodstream that we have to that every generation has a responsibility to stand up for and be responsible to situations change yes but

human nature does not change human nature is the same throughout history so i do think that we're perpetually dealing with some version of the same problem or resources or economies or those kind of things different any given moment in time yes they can and you're free and we're going and we're going to go to assure degree gentlemen we get. short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on number one. and. see round trip to open their entertainments. a little.

queasy in with only healthy ingredients. something. our summer sales are cheap. the swells the plant that was responsible for causing the world's worst industrial disaster. had been abandoned in a condition where it had become a source of pollution of the most recent study that was done shows that this water pollution and spreading. more than a hundred thousand people. walking with.

people in the sea as little as five hundred dollars. unpunished. and. welcome back around the time of year old bell to remind you we're discussing whether the u.s. is still number one. in. ok michael i'd like to go back to you in washington d.c.

i mean one thing i think is quite clear maybe there's some nuances but it's the middle class for the last thirty years has been plummeted ok this is where the real crisis in america is right now because people are being asked to sacrifice the middle class is a sacrificed a lot over the last quarter century ok and now everybody has to sacrifice but there's not much left to sacrifice what do you think right i think our number one security issue or security threat is our own economy. and the consolidation of wealth is too dangerous and over with that today it's at an all time high ok jeffrey you want to agree or disagree on that. well no i agree with that michael i i think that the economy is always the number one issue in a presidential campaign it is the issue right now and there is a reason for it because from from the average person in the middle class all the way to the as they say these days the one percent things have been very difficult

him with or without a strong economy nothing else is going to happen for america bruce you want to but i think the important if not more important is just the economy is the fairness of the system now we have programs you've got all sorts of money spewed in green technologies that those who have the lobbyists who get the government on their side massive entitlements the military industrial terrorism complex five hundred million dollars for a single plane they're paying twenty eight dollars for a biofuels for the navy all those things make people cynical not because they don't understand the ability and the willingness to be frugal in industrious but the playing field is all tilted in favor of one part of the community against another that's unfair and it creates a lack of legitimacy in the people and i want to go back to the issue that jeffrey raised about freedom freedom is what needs to be fought and captured by each generation and that's what we're losing we have a president who can the sas and eight u.s. citizens without due process detain them at guantanamo bay with the u.s. military under the n.d.a.

intercepts our phone conversations our e-mails invades our privacy without any court warrants this is our freedom that we're losing we have all power concentrated in the president republican or democrat alike and that's what we need to stand up in recognizes our greatness as a government and as a people not necessarily the g.n.p. or what the average in our household prices ok jeffrey if i go to you you know this program is broadcast to a foreign audience just not in the united states would you please explain to me the difference between the republicans in the democrats in solving america's problems. sure in. their sort of fashion the nutshell thank you the day the democratic party believes and has become to believe in central planning the government knows best that government should be making the decisions republicans at least in theory and i can see bruce smiling even though i can't see any republicans and theory believe in limited government here although i would have to say i probably i probably agree with bruce that there is more more of our folks that depart from

that philosophy than than should be the case i don't often agree with congressman paul on foreign policy but i think he certainly has a point you know when we get to the discussing whether we should eliminate the five cabinet departments and things of this nature the federal government the united states believe many conservatives is far too big and death to censure use the difference ok bruce would you agree with that i admire i want to build on. geoffrey said i think he got it right even though the rhetoric on the republican side may be for limited government the facts are the opposite even take someone like mr ryan who is supposed to be the intellectual beacon of the of the party and of the republican team there you know he votes for the tarp program he votes for bailing out general motors who vote for a party to expand medicare by a trillion dollars per year he voted for no child left behind he voted for all the big defense spending he doesn't want to cut defense whatsoever despite its bloated

and single source contracts that make it perhaps the least competitive aspect of the economy and what is his plan for balancing the budget now maybe in twenty forty you know twenty eight years from now and this is somebody for a limited government say the words are there but they say the substance between the two parties is virtually indistinguishable and that's why even if you look at the ten year projections on the budget you know the difference is between having a national debt of twenty two trillion after ten years as opposed to twenty three and a half trillion nothing of substantial michael what do you think about the political culture of that interesting thing and let me go to michael first i mean the pollute is there a political culture in the united states to really seriously address the country's problems let's go back to the top of the program we heard that clip from h.b.o. those are real problems those are facts i think the parties are. more extreme than they've ever been they pander to their fringes more than ever

and i know you know talking about the reagan era i guarantee you that obama doesn't have a beer with boehner every night like reagan did with tip o'neill and all and at the end of the reagan era reagan compromise with tip on a lot of issues and i'm not saying that same spirit of compromise today it just doesn't exist. and on a foreign policy front these parties are you know i say are separate by degrees i mean they're pretty much the same to domestically the missing is a different story i think the democrats are focused on helping the middle class but foreign policy wise these parties look very similar jeffrey you might jump in there . well i would i would say not similar enough to to to my way of thinking i would say again you know with bruce and congressman paul one of the interesting things peter about the american political party system is that you have

all used the word outsiders. and they can even be inside a party. who will promote a certain series of ideas and over time the best of those ideas get grafted into one of the two political parties and what what isn't liked is left behind this was true of the populist movement in the eight hundred ninety s. when they started talking about what we now know as social security that became grafted eventually into f.d.r.'s new deal i think with congressman paul some of his ideas in terms of tarp and things of that nature i think frankly have resonated with a lot of people beyond congressman paul's base and i do think that there is going to be a lot of concern about this and there's going to be a sharp guy with people here everybody or a lot of people i know on the conservative side are very enthusiastic about governor romney and particularly congressman ryan but i don't think that the kind of issues that bruce is raising have been forgotten and i think that there will not

be a tendency now to let them if there is a romney ryan administration to let them skate as i think was sort of done with george w. bush in the aftermath of nine eleven i think go ahead brister i think many of the problems that he had many of the problems there were a numerated in the opening here really escape you know political or government resolution it's a matter of the political culture icons who we hold up for admiration whether they're lady gaga or someone who is wise and industrious and ambitious and used and that's why they the educational level and maybe this has tumbled because we have we have we have the the icons that youth are shown who are not people who engage in deep thought and cerebration that there are stars for the for the moment and even. when we have candidates like sarah palin or mr perry from texas almost denigrating the learning as though it's a disability for politics again that sends a terrible message to youth deciding how they want to spend their time and the same

issues with god you know we have health care staggering amount spent and yet it b.c. continues to climb and the general level of health continues to plummet inverse proportion to the spending it's because we have lost the sense of strength and cultural rigor that was so permeating and the founding years when we had struggles to overcome and i don't know whether government can address that properly it something's got to be addressed in the classroom and around the dinner table ok michael the american people have governments and politicians that they deserve. that is a good question but i think the control of the media by the corporate america i think people go into the voting booth with misperceptions and the way the media works they're able to by the end of the general election everyone kind of goes towards the middle and they look very similar and everyone panders every single

interest group and tries to be you know all things to all people so i think the media. you know through the advertising the average voter goes in there and i think i think they're they've been deceived and they don't know really what's really what's going on with candidates jeff there's no substantial debates that's my point there's no real debate it's always you know when you go to vote you're going to get either pepsi or or coca-cola or you're going to get a cola jeffrey what do you think. i think they i think the addition of congressman i frankly i was concerned about that issue with with quite candid with governor romney's candidacy i think edition of congressman ryan to the ticket guarantees for instance that medicare which is a very serious issue is going to be on the table front and center so i think we are going to have a serious discussion about this and a choice but that is the way the american political system works the center can be far to the left it can be far to the right it can be truly in the center but it

will gravitate to over time to collectively whatever the the vast majority of american pinion wherever it sort of settles and the american people in the one nine hundred twenty s. were much more conservative people then they were in the one nine hundred thirty s. and forty's and it sort of moved left and then again by the time of president reagan's real our election in one nine hundred eighty it had begun to move right the center moved right and to this day i still believe we're a center right country essentially ok well being center right bruce's that solved america's problems. no i don't and you asked at the outset i believe do the people get the leadership that they deserve and i think the answer is it is not yes i think it's perhaps no leaders are there to lead not to become echo chambers of popular opinion that but that's what every other listeners runs and leaders are but that's what they are i know and that's where leaders that's leadership is a failure precisely for that reason when everyone tries to stablish their

credibility by saying my my parents or grandparents were coal miners or whatever and coal miners are really respectable people but they aren't the kinds of people who typically are have the leadership skills of winston churchill's charles de gaulle the real giants that are needed to take a country from oppressive piece of disaster into a higher arc and we now have a political system that develops what i call non leader leaders all they do is they go out there and they are really dramatic very whether you know the letters i mean you really want to go right ok we all agree there's no leadership in america many thanks today to my guests in washington and in harrisburg and thanks to our viewers for watching as you are so you next time and remember the last time. you. want to.

the sad i mean there used to be an animal planet it would be. dry wall construction and all that stuff gone mitt romney soaked up the spotlight at last things are in c. convention meanwhile just a few short miles away one of the poorest towns in florida goes on notice we'll show you a side of tampa all those media cameras overlooked. us no question wiki leaks founder julian assange has a message and is willing to go great lengths to spread it this time speaking out to a venezuelan television station about his extradition limbo and update ahead. what the latest case of subjective journalism turns out the new york times site approval from the cia in order to write a critical piece about president obama r.t. asks if there's such a thing as objective journalism these days. it's

friday august thirty first four pm here in washington d.c. i'm liz wahl and you're watching our t.v. we saw the media descend on tampa with full force for the republican national convention and for the most part what we saw in tampa was a picturesque city in the sunshine state but that's not the full picture the reality is almost twenty percent of the population in tampa lives below the poverty line significantly higher than the thirteen point eight percent national average and according to the national alliance to end homelessness tampa is the city with the highest rate of homelessness in the country many of the. homeless in tampa have described more pressure and hostility from police during the r. and c. are the correspondent christine for is out ventured into the heart of tampa beyond the convention glitz. nancy and lee marian have been running

this manufactured homes community for about seven years now so we moved down from and then michigan. and just seem like the economy got worse up there before it down here and when it did they say they recognize the signs immediately cost of living going up to people losing jobs. we saw that quite a bit up there before we left and then here we had a couple years before that that started as much and then we had several residents and things like that that went through that in a city made up primarily of communities that look like this the marion's in many ways have a front row seat to what's been unfolding we see more people downsizing from their big homes move in and manufactured home communities to start over basically a cheaper affordable way to live and now they're basically getting out of their big expensive homes and just trying to stay afloat located less than fifteen miles from

downtown tampa phenomena south of florida has seen the single biggest jump in people living at or below the poverty rate across the entire state of florida it is a snapshot of a growing trend nationwide and the poverty rate in rural and suburban areas growing exponentially it's in a class the brookings institution classifies as extreme poverty jumping from fifteen percent to forty percent between two thousand and two thousand and ten tom kingsley a senior fellow with the urban institute says the entire sun belt has been suffering the percentage of all mortgages that were seriously distressed that means that they were ninety days delinquent or more or in foreclosure. austin texas was about six percent in miami that was twenty six percent in just nothing here nothing a lifetime to known assassin resident daryl minnow says jobs here are scarce and

for many with no access to transportation this is a portrait of everyday life it's sad i mean there used to be animal clinics very to be. dry wall construction and all that stuff gone. i don't know it's a trend expected to continue in cities across america if serious changes aren't made pushing the poor further and further out of cities and into rural areas with fewer services and opportunities but one for now that's keeping some communities like this one afloat in sonoma sasa florida christine for our tea. party correspondent christine just landed in d.c. and rushed to our studio for a wrap up of the convention chris and you had a long week so really appreciate you making it to the studio here so looks like based on your story there that there's

a lot more to american cities in this case tampa than what meets the camera lens yeah it's very very interesting live in you talk about the media descending on downtown tampa of course we were part of the group of people who came in but you don't have to drive far to see such a different picture and we showed that a little earlier in the week in our report of those who are sleeping you know in the parking lot in what they call romney ville but this is actual real life not a protest where we went to known assassin florida and it's really really interesting because of how fast it's changed now it was never sort of a well to do area but the number of people unemployed the number of people living below the poverty rate has skyrocketed just in the last decade and those who i spoke to who have lived there are very entire lives said they're seeing it and they're feeling it and when you talk about cities like than in the south as i mentioned this is just a snapshot of a larger trend going on nationwide these cities not not far from

a main downtown hob but so many of these people have no way of getting there there's no transportation that part of the city doesn't have you know didn't get any funding from the state to get buses to go through so the problem is that even if you want to job even if you're able to work but can you. and afford to move out of your home there's nowhere for you to get there's no way for you to get to a lot of these places so just really interesting to take a look at this place as you saw the entire city basically made up of these mobile home parks there is a lake a little further we weren't able to find it but some of the residents were telling me that there were some expensive homes on the lake but that was really it their portrait of life was this small city that so many of them could not get out of you know and they were stuck there and you talked about in your report this interesting trend of the poor being pushed out of these urban hubs from the cities into rural areas.