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leg. good afternoon and welcome to capital account i'm lauren lyster here in washington d.c. these are your headlines for wednesday september fifth two thousand and twelve gold slips ahead of the e.c.b. meeting or so the story goes are these the kind of macro trends that are really driving gold prices as much as the headlines would indicate our guest bill murphy

chairman of gaps has says no he's flown all the way to washington to make the case and i'm sure you remember the report last month that u.s. regulators were likely to drop their silver market manipulation probe and then commissioner bart chilton fired back that the report was premature and inaccurate down to the much sense that of course j.p. morgan is at the center of these manipulation claims and our guest is forecasting that the robber may meet the road for the big bank and it's over position possibly this month could explode we'll hear from a plus our lap dances new blood dances and our form worthy of tax exempt status well new york's highest court will reportedly weigh the arguments for and again stand at the end of the show so we'll wait let's get to today's capital account.

so as i said at the top of the show gold key to media reports today as investors were cautious ahead of the e.c.b. meeting that begins tomorrow and the federal reserve's meeting next week this is after hitting a six month high earlier now and this is the latest macro trend that the movement of the precious metal is being attributed to but does this explain it or is there market manipulation going on behind the scenes driving moves and price suppression despite an environment that says everything is fine like this. good morning. i would like you all to welcome our new

citizen just. chilling. well as far as the stepford wives and the brunette in the room the nicole kidman character when it comes to gold in silver that would be bill murphy our guest he's been at it for more than ten years investigating and unearthing evidence of the metal market manipulation and he is here in studio all the way from texas i should mention to talk about he's chairman of the gold antitrust action committee and author of the metropole cafe dot com and i'm just so happy to have you in studio thank you so much for making the trip from texas great to be here long thank you yet so let's start with some of the more current news just because we recently did have that report that this the f.t.c. may wind down its probe of market metal manipulation and then bart chilton the commissioner that has been quite vocal on this issue said he thought that that was perhaps premature and inaccurate that said when people think of metal manipulation

in the silver markets they may think of j.p. morgan and i was listening to them earlier interviews of you and you think that there could be some fireworks with j.p. morgan in regards to its silver position possibly this month what do you think could happen here well in the beginning of the summer one of my better sources told me that gold and silver were going to take off in august break out of their trading ranges and go towards towards all time highs and part of that process would be the problem the j.p. morgan has with their massive short position they've been manipulating the market for a long time it's very difficult to get silver in size and they've been found out in terms of how they've really ripped off the little guy the common man with the manipulation of this market and that should all come to fruition sometime i hope this month and if not this month by next month what will that look like and why do you think it will happen on this timeframe well basically i've seen some stuff on the record that it's exposing morgan and what they've done and i can't get into it

but it was from the same source this source bill murphy i can do to help it's only the. like a deep throat sort of character a character from one what kind of industry regulatory or banking or well he knows what he's doing more again it sell he knows what he's talking about and been around the business a long period of time but basically the silver is a big shortage if you want to get in size for example if you want five ten fifteen million dollars worth of silver you can't get it for weeks or four months and then when you finally do get to silver it's all current date bars means to silver is not around so i would expect some sort of delivery problems coming up by the end of the year or maybe even a force was your and i think as this people realized the shortage and it's happening now investment sharks are going after j.p. morgan in their short position and that's why the price of silver has gone up from twenty six twenty seven now to over thirty two dollars an ounce and if i'm correct

it's on it's way to fifty or sixty by the end of the year so you think that because his you do argue that j.p. morgan has been a silver market manipulator suppressing the price right so this means this that suppression scheme is over coming to an end they have big they have big problems with with what happened and what they've done and it's going to make it much more difficult for them to continue doing what they're doing in addition they're running out of physical supply well and i want to talk more on that note because first j.p. morgan is widely assumed to have this huge short position in the physical silver market but when was the last time and what was last information we have that quantified its short positions and long position and how they stack up against each other do we know and it's actually a great question because i testified in front of the c.e.o. of t.c. about morgan's short position as well as a just species short position in gold and you could quantify it easier with the reports they had back then they changed the reports so it makes it more difficult to identify what they're doing but from what i am told to cut their position down

somewhat but it's still huge and they're in trouble with it and a lot of it it's. complicated has to do with the large war situation that has to do with the will truly and has to do with the position they took over from bear stearns the bottom line is all this is coming together and i would look for the price of silver to explode in the not too distant future ok so when you think that could happen this month or next month you're saying possibly one thing i saw that i read that caught my eye was it was an investment professional in the silver space who was writing and said that he had heard that last week j.p. morgan raised the price it was willing to pay for silver to thirty one dollars this was above the price that spot silver was trading at last week why would they do that well it's a good point if you're in a position and you're short and you have to deliver to longs and you can't get the physical supply you raise the price above what the general market would so you can get it and there's not desperation yet but i'll use i think pretty soon you're when

you see the price acceleration that's when you know the panic has started so you think that's what this is about that this shortage of supply that j.p. morgan can't get its hands on so they're willing to pay more for it now there are two things start that's correct and that's why you someone else has given you that information it's good to hear that's interesting and i read it with a gentleman's name silver dealer also that same day i was writing about the albion may exchange and talking about this shortage of silver and that deliveries are being delayed and that deliveries for the large orders were not available immediately it sounds a little like the one nine hundred thirty s. when banks were counting the money more slowly during bank runs as employees tried to rush in the back and fill up their coffers with more cash is that any kind of apt metaphor for what's going on now with silver well it could be a perfect metaphor for the precious metals market think of it like a fractional reserve system nobody really knows in the zone allocated accounts and even some cases like in switzerland switzerland allocated accounts how much gold is

really there and it's not encumbered by other people thinking they own the same gold just under the. a few years ago morgan stanley was fined millions of dollars for charging clients for silver they were storing for them but the silver wasn't there and they ended up having to pay huge fines and that could be going on which we know is going on all over the gold silver world are taking in all this money selling gold to the same people. but not actually purchasing the gold in or using all the funds as long as people leave gold and silver in the system no problem but i run starts yikes like musical chairs and there are not enough chairs when everybody goes to sit down but in the one nine hundred thirty s. during the depression there were bank failures is there any case where we see bullion banks fail i think when we get to the tipping point that's the kind of thing will happen people will be asking for their gold and silver they won't get it and that will lead to a failure of certain sorts at least a failure within

a division of a company ok that's interesting and it's also a little different today where you have all these much bigger enterprises so it's a division of a big bank we're looking at not you know the bank in its entirety and there's of course the bailout guarantee you could argue for some looking more broadly at the big picture on that note it certainly isn't our grandmother or grandfather as metals market anymore with and derivatives markets a lot more people have been able to get in and this arguably has affected the price of precious metals what impact do you think e.t.s. are having and have had on the market has been tremendous for demand it's an easy way for people to buy gold and silver not have to go through all the delivery mechanism and so on but there's a difference between some of these so then again i don't seem to have produced a lot of prejudice against morgan and they just b.c. we're going to particular but because they're the custodians of the two major gold and silver e.t.s. that is a big question i had so how does that factor into explain the role because could

you argue that that explains their large positions or they're hedging positions does that explain some of their short positions the fact that they are the custodians of these huge e.t.s. well something doesn't smell right and i testified. about this in front of the sea you have to see a couple of years ago. b b c is the major gold sure they're the custodian of the gold major gold the same thing is true with morgan silver. there's nothing nothing in their prospectuses which prohibits them from leasing out their gold or using it for the marketplace nobody knows. i think it just smells fishy you know if if i'm buying gold and silver with an e.t.f. that it actually could use it against me it's a conflict of interest because you're saying that they could lease out the gold that's supposed to back the e.t.f. that they're selling to people or sell or use it for whatever they want to do ok but what about the question i had on this too could there being a custodian of the e.t.f.

explain their large short positions in the metals market because they're hedging for clients well if you hire a client and you're investing in gold and silver and the custodians taking their their investment and using it the hedge in other words to go against your position i would be outraged i would find that horrifying ok so there's no hedging argument to be made in your view well enough to legitimate they may be doing it absolutely but if you're think about if you're an investor in one of these e.t.s. and they're using your own investment to go against you i think that's a little ridiculous right and then when we're we're talking about price suppression you mentioned j.p. morgan h.s.b.c. are there any other banks to be thinking about are these the two in your view that are the major players who said when you got a started in one thousand nine hundred nine to expose the manipulation of the gold market there were certain banks morgan chase goldman sachs and then we realized the fed was involved the treasury stabilization from bank financial settlements that

was much bigger than that but within the context. the players have changed goldman sachs is no longer around then why used to call them hannibal lector then that's that's how we greed they were back then but they're gone ok so things change but in essence to the people i mentioned are very much a part of it ok so j.p. morgan h.s.b.c. are the big players today and while they are the big shorts ok ok and silver and gold respectively and then this all can happen without in terms of gold without the western central banks in your view and this is something that you have spoken a lot about you've been working at this for ten years ag at i want to get into all that work we're going to go to a short break but we will have much more when we do come back with bill murphy chairman of the gold antitrust action committee still ahead to how did bill murphy's past as a pro football player were bare handed try to get gather as a message out i asked him after the break but first your closing market numbers.

download the official publication so choose your language stream quality and enjoy your favorite. t.v. is not required to watch on t.v. all you need is your mobile device watch your t.v. any time and. the issue is that so much money which of course you write on it until you. look even slightly is our republican mantra nominee mitt romney right now it's time for the democrats to reaffirm. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something

else here soon. and realize that everything you. are going to welcome is a big issue a. the for. the and. the and. the and. the and. welcome back we're talking today with the chairman of gatt who is telling us some of the many investigations and findings that that he's found to during the more than ten years that he's that he's been at this identifying evidence of market

manipulation in the gold and silver markets and i just want to bring up just one example where we've kind of seen this mentioned in this isn't a wiki leaks cable that. bill murphy brought to my attention this is from the u.s. embassy it deals with chinese press reports and this is a quote from one the u.s. in europe of always suppress the rising price of gold they intend to weaken gold's function as an international reserve currency they don't want to see other countries turning to gold reserves instead of the u.s. dollar or the euro therefore suppressing the price of gold is very beneficial for the u.s. in maintaining the u.s. dollars role as the international reserve currency so let's bring bill murphy back into the conversation because i want to talk more about kind of the highlights and shadows work over the years so just to peg off about wiki leaks cable now that was not a classified cable that was coming from chinese press reports what do you think is the significance of something like that being in the chinese press well it's very

significant more of the biggest part of the chinese and the russians in the army is that people would probably probably follow the god of the most of the chinese and the russians i've had three conference calls with a chinese investment corporation as far as the russian russians go their central bank knows all about god one of my favorite things to bring up is the number two guy oleg mostly cough years ago in front of this big volume foreman in moscow surprised everybody and he started talking about god and he compared to a russian poem about what his central bank was doing he says the giraffe is tall and he sees all and i think the russians have followed us to. the consult of president putin has been to two of our conferences they've been big since then they are taking advantage of the. officially cheap gold and buying up from people that are giving it away too cheaply but are saying so do you think that because you argue that western central banks that the fed is manipulating the price of gold so

does that mean that the fed is subsidizing their purchases of gold by the russian and chinese want to know what it is you know the words if gold were to have kept pace with inflation and people other people say this it would be twenty five hundred dollars or more right now and it's only seventeen hundred that's how much of a difference this manipulation is made and of course with thoughts going on the world in europe and the united states and printing money you could say that maybe gold should be fairly priced at three thousand so they've done a done a job on the prices before i get into the evidence of that what price do you think gold and silver need to reach to clear in terms of price i know you cited upwards of five thousand dollars an ounce before for gold i think you told us that when we last spoke in april do you stand by that or do you think it would need to be higher i've seen some assets as high as ten thousand dollars an ounce well you know any number you know you could come up with when we had our conference at dawson city in the. august two thousand and five prices for thirty six i said it would take three

to five thousand back then to clear the market i think it would be easily go there and for silver i think you can pick a number if i'm correct about was going to develop i think we could move past fifty very quickly then get up to eighty or ninety and sit for a while and then double that in the years ahead ok and then what to back up it to get as work you've been doing this for more than ten years what would you say are kind of the biggest smoking guns i guess that you found over the years of doing this suppression in the middle market you know it's a great it's a great thing to bring up it's like a murder trial got about one hundred fifty things and you're the juries looking at all this evidence and if you sit there and look at it all and it was a come up the jury would say guilty beyond a reasonable reasonable doubt death penalty and that's what it that's what it all is you think yeah when you put it all together. you can come up to no other conclusion one specific thing is andrew maguire former goldman sachs guy to have years ago to see if hearing we got his e-mails that he had sent to the c.f. t.c.

about what j.p. morgan was going to do ahead of time and it happened over and over again and still nothing's been done about it yet i mean if you that's a smoking gun i mean you tell somebody what's going to do before they do it then they do it yeah yeah ok that's a good example but also you i mean you sued the fact you have testified before regulators and you took out a wall street journal and that you paid a couple hundred thousand dollars for i believe you know to go through some of these well january thirty first two thousand and eight we put a two hundred sixty four thousand dollar full page color on the wall street journal in that in we talked about catastrophe and disaster coming as a result of the manipulation of this market two months later we had this crash and there's the ad right there i'm curious what has this done maybe to get the message out about gadda how has the reception ben in the past few years silence.

that's a couple of thousand dollars in the american filing yeah i think. as long as this goes on it's what's good what's coming is actually going to be worse than we saw in two thousand and eight distorted of all the markets they don't let the markets trade freely anymore i mean you've got the plunge protection team in the counterparty risk management group in the stock market everybody knows the bond markets manipulated course we've proven in our where we see in gold and silver manipulated things to work right now it's that's getting back to where that stepford wives thing comes in yeah everything is fine but it's not fine and we have a number of people that come on these shows and talk about the various way that the market is right and the prices are right why do you think that some of your critics have said you know i gather they have conspiracy theories. well you got me i mean i would say is the not invented here syndrome for one to a lot of them are working with the boy. but it gets to me because a kind of people we have around us i mean the mr gold of south africa peter george mr silver of mexico hugo salinas price mr gold of the united states jim sinclair

eric sprott john and reve just bought asset management james turd gold money and i could go on and on about these yeah really god is real are smart people really smart people and all behind us and all know that we're correct and i just have to ask because i don't know how many people may know this about you bill murphy but you were once a starting wide receiver for the boston patriots back in one nine hundred sixty eight how did your days as a football player without the full mask you and for me before the show how did that for perry it have to fight this fight well a lot of i was critics you were just talking don't think i got hit in the head too hard like. i did football their own but it was a great experience and you know i was a starter and i love that and great memories and you get hit there a lot you get back up and you do the same thing when it comes to taking on the rich and powerful in the gold and silver market manipulation right well bill murphy thank you so much for being here and banging it around with us thank you.

all right let's wrap up with a little loose change because as promised i said i told you a little about this story at the top of the show and thanks to hollywood even if you haven't had this experience for yourself you probably know what comes with the job of being a stripper. what would you say as an exotic dancer is an artist well a nightclub in alba nice says so and because of that they haven't paid one hundred twenty four thousand dollars in taxes from the admission and what they call couch

sales or lap dances so club owners say that the dancers are exempt because under state law if you have a dramatic or musical arts performance you don't have to pay taxes on it they say lap dances qualify so now this is a fight it's going to the highest court in new york the court of appeals do you treat what do you think do you think. that lap dances are art do you think this should even be a debate in terms. of its absurd who i mean i think there should be some of there should be some connection between. the taxes and how much of the state has actually helped you to get there i mean like the road they drove to go to the to the strip globe i mean there's a lot of the crew there so i mean why should you the big bucks of that's absurd the use of the height of i'm sure it is a perfect example of the complete overage of. you know it represents to me at first . i think i will i think that one

angle of this story i think that you know perhaps a tax collector is just really want to collect these taxes if you know what i mean . talk about everything. you know if you can. where you go to your own art form yeah and before we move on i was kind of like ok just pay the taxes strip club but then i was looking at the process that process that they've gone through to evaluate what constitutes the kind of art and dancing that qualifies and the fact that bureaucrats are trying to decide ok well they don't have to have dance training and it's not we can't we can't really discern that it is choreographed dance is just like get bureaucracy out of designing or if robert can make homosexual as an art then these girls can too. ok so by now you've probably noticed a lot of mega churches are known for asking for donations a little like this. come

on steve do you think you can cure what these people who told me that you can you give me people with good. will hear someone that sounds like they're giving people a new show the new creation mega church in singapore is asking god to reward attendees with jobs cars pay raises if they contribute to the multimillion dollar funding drive and the service arm security guards watch the cash auditors oversee the donations sounds like a pretty well oiled gig to to get this money what do you think this represents dimitri so i mean there's so many different things about this that are interesting one i think it's indicative of a bull market in asia a psychologist mean and these people are looking for cars or consumer goods you have the religion and here people are trying to find a way to emotionally deal with this ongoing depression but in asia they're more like you know they're looking towards the future every year but in the last maybe that's it but the other thing is just so you know the church has been as

a rocket man it's been around since forever and i think it's about time that they reassure themselves you have some of the bunch that are churches you know what's wrong with you place one card after another turn make sure listen their lives i just i separate that look you know well whatever i want to say their church is harmless i'm back in the bin there's no normal or they're asking for money and regard their end and promising something that they cannot promise in return i want to move on because i'll just leave our audience with this before we go we've heard that the d.n.c. obama's convention speech was supposed to be at the b. of a stadium and then some officials were calling it the panther stadium and now i just read a report that maybe it won't be there after all because of rain here's another way to tackle the bank if you don't like it just burn it down like they did a burning man take a look this video. burning

man sock it to the big banks with that art exhibit that they burned to the ground i'll leave you with that but that's all we have time for thank you so much for watching though and have a great night and don't forget to come back tomorrow you know in the meantime you can always follow me on twitter out lauren lyster give us feedback at youtube dot com slash capital account watch just an h.d. on hulu and have yourself a great night.