well with the. technology innovation all the developments around russia we've dumped a huge earth covered. the seven thirty pm here in moscow you're watching our t.v. good to have you with us let's take a recap of our headlines all star team needs a morality rico lawmakers baldhead cogswell the disabled and low income and says well foreign creditors reject athens planned savings as. a deadly car bomb rocks the syrian city of aleppo shortly after an al qaida needs militants of less support for the syrian rebels as fears monger of the country's conflict is getting increasingly hijacked by point four cents.

and possible shuts down of foreign civil was really awful is that in an actor which is how holding as a final step has so been seen by thousands of the e.u. and nato of police forces remain in the breakaway region. now paid to live well examines of capitalism is facing a crisis and the second part of our g. is a peg c.e.o. summit panel stay with us. now gentlemen of the panel and our audience here. what's the road forward we'll go to questions little bit later what's to road for what's your ideal world my ideal

world is it people who are bankrupt go bankrupt and fail the way it's supposed to wait either way ok we're supposed to work is people who who fail fail and then competent people come in take over the assets reorganize and start over and what's happening now in the west is the government is taking the assets away from the competent people giving them to the incompetent people and saying to the incompetent people now you can compete with the company really good with their money give you an example tara let me give you an example very political example we all can understand in iceland. beginning of the financial crisis very interesting story a woman that ran a boutique had a good job she was an independent entrepreneur and within a month she was wiped out and bankrupt and she said i did nothing wrong and she's right ok no this is simple honest or not the way she play by the rules or what have you played by the one half of the nice and was in the icelanders said we're not going to bailout the banks to hell with them let them go bankrupt and they refuse

to pay the price and when they were here when i'll give generously or nine dollars bailout the banks and the banks bail let me go back to my story what did she do wrong she did nothing wrong she did nothing wrong but she lives with i don't know what the woman from iceland but i certainly know about the stories about the americans who have housing that was very good in the bank told them you can upgrade by the way the money is free this is not about the basics to live this is purely facilitating living beyond your means that that is the problem and i am arguing and i wish the americans all the best and capitalism is not just about companies it's a much wider spectrum of things because it's meant to deliver on prosperity in asia we go down that route where we say you can had everything and there's no controls will be catastrophic and the size is very clear there's not enough to go around so what is the medium to which we reach this and i'm always fascinated that people from the west think we need to relate to the world we can that's where your

question is right how do you stay you can't go on what's the model you want what's your ideal world ok jim houses if i hear correctly the other side of the panel the same yes capitalism go through booms and busts and let's regulate it so that it doesn't really go boom and doesn't really go bust and it's somewhere out in the middle but throw in the middle is always mediocre what my version of capitalism is this cosies is created for gays and this is the individuals who can succeed in things they want to see in life and they don't have barriers well it's corroding social responsibility attached to anything else it is up to the individual person. if you know those types of serial so you can you can just opt out if you don't care but let me give you an example you can be a businessman in this part of russia and there say you know i can make money by cutting out the floor because the state has said that force is protected. so there

are rules all the time i totally agree with you we need entrepreneurs i'm an entrepreneur i'm not against capitalism but there are rules for to protect the public good individuals don't do that only if the state does that and that's what needs to be done we cannot weaken the state but i'm not suggesting we have authoritarian states either this is a clever discussion should be we should be had they not about mao and stalin and ronald reagan that was twentieth century frank jump in i am a fan of forced already in this sense i support america for example and not manipulate support your idea more than your it's a great story it's important to think with the refutes cos i think it's really much what you might want to but in with the thing about growth initiatives i think just cutting cost is not enough and it's really what you know young people in your many and given your personal ambitions that just lazy right why did the system do that and i think that system you know because for me you have a limited kind of slieve like in the social timex like all the social goodies and this we have to stop through capitalist. then we have to give them. ideas of the

future and that's what the state has to do right and given them you know these decisions for the future i mean to be fair isn't unemployment an incentive to make an equity gym environment and environment to create jobs and vironment and ridge then to partnership prosper yes we agree or disagree creating the system their own printers can you know build up its mechanics be more concrete give me some point about what how to improve it how to fix it but i would say you know i think that the difficulties in europe and the us are born out of a historical sense of entitlement and privilege i think that asia we're going to have to do two things in my view the first one is we need to start understanding that resources need to be priced properly secondly without accusing me of being a socialist we need to put collective welfare simply ahead of individual rights the japanese practice that but how it. did you see them in space somehow when you're

going to price. they want to know when it's time jim just keep saying these things have to be done who's going to price the resources or the market the market is going to do a better job than the market failure i don't need to argue with people that markets fail so moscow is going to do it. the soviets are going to do it. for to. imagine if you didn't have the e.p.a. . we didn't have the paper a long time in this country you saying that today the united states. yes i am doing this and i would say well yes. but you have to get a microphone hold on. yes i know with a bit of regulation they have got it we i want to just a patient in the audience please sir stand up when. we refine results for a lot of years till the early seventy's i think. government organization imposes

increased. burdens on the business in the free market that ends up hurting the very consumers it's intended to protect how does it hurt the consumer. it certainly. is hurting the consumer with the. cafe standards driving the internal combustion engine into obscurity so it's going to remove it from our lives and remove a tremendous what you're reading off a really good point here is it's really fundamentally what is the role of the state here now so many people don't want any role whatsoever and you know and jim and i probably could argue with each other until they're blue in the face about you know what kind of regulation caused the crash my view is not enough you probably would say to me the problem was the government the government was called the problem this central bank in america meant in the business going to be sold why do you. think the government the central bank in america refused to let people go bankrupt they

kept printing money and bailing people out so the people buying for homes for housing bubble you know i don't know of any oh wow downstream what we have for the maybe ailing of the auto when you know of course not i wouldn't bail out anybody i wouldn't even bailout you believe it or. not even you know peter. not even me i would bail out me i would bail bail out your kid so i would you bail out the automobile industry the insurance industry the banking industry all of these industries were bailed. thinking is great because america america went in bailed out everybody and weighed less and less said mc you know like go ahead. even like civil war in some countries right richmond like like you would like us rights and then people on the street looking to your right a lot of protests strike a balance don't function anymore and what we really need is a strong street we don't need more government we need better government leaders all of this for us election circus right the government comes in to do three studios or

cycle cycle. circus acts a circus so basically the government comes in and a lot of promise in the first year in the second the beatles. change in the thirty year kind of a standstill you know because we election time starts in the forty years complaining so nothing is moving right and that's no good government is to that's the reason when china and russia prefer different people for the russian to try to go ahead and tell us more on the bill if they want to build it for the businesses to prosper and less regulation ok i'm not saying there is a lot of left aggression on some russian and american lot of coal but this is something that the need to improve because let me let me just go i'll go back to what i know a bit more which is asia. i was compare the two largest nations in asia china and india one is democratically elected capitalist free markets maybe not operating as well one is more state run with capitalism as well which country is delivered greater on the process on lifting people up the chinese systems have of course the

china but because it has a strong state it doesn't take. anything for granted that he does god this is my god he never tried to do business in india nobody can do business and he was a government everywhere. you cannot be and you cannot be an entrepreneur in india unless you are in bed with the government that's the only way you can do that is true and that's my point so this is the you know your question is do we need a strong state my point is you need a strong state and the chinese system works because it's a strong state no union system doesn't work because it's a weak state now it's a strong the chinese system works because they let all these people do what they want to the government couldn't keep up there but the chinese government is very clear about what you can and can't do oh please please as i said before they call themselves communist but they're fantastic capitalists they are that's a form of it all here and it's government decides it doesn't really matter what you call the party then but this drives one of the problems you can have that people

have a driving in china. not about a tea party you're saying that's not a common would like to make but talk about good governance i think we've just made europe the governments in europe i can only talk about europe i won't comment about belief that china russia will be us in what we maybe need to see new a system of just getting the best into public maybe getting the on to nursing power to nurse also running the government oh maybe even the oh my god you have to people who can make decisions to problem in your of the people running the compass who comes to make decisions in china or the people in charge who can make decisions and not affright tuft of. technology innovation all the developments around russia we've got the future

covered. more news today violence is once again. these are the images the world is seeing from the streets of canada. showing corporations are ok. maybe we should just have a state that has just basically quantum and leave it at that ok just a basic safe safe and well you how is that enough for you jim i would say yes you have a so you agree with schools and fire department and if you want to have your schools i don't know if i would agree with a lot every school america where i was closer than i would have a came

a great country when i didn't have public schools it would have privates every nobody had an automatic right to go to school in the nineteenth century in america if you had enough money your kids went to school you don't have to pay as you think it should be a right now to go to school where of course i think everybody should but the state go in education america's the disaster you understand that american kids are not even in the top twenty in anything on international test and america spends board times what the number two country does on education you think that's a good system i think it's an awful solution to him ok of course it is an awful system well educated one agrees second of course infrastructure into sort of the important point to culture as a culture of history important to talk about money you talk about capitalism but it also gives c. interests since when you castro's music to the people so it's really a task of the government. i mean my own my view is capitalism i think kept the.

one point split billion chinese we have a dream where we can choose not to have a car i think that's the point i support yes smart well yes good point good point. thank you my name's tom wheelwright i'm a former astray and senator i've been living for the last twelve years on rice and low taxes and presently living in singapore but i'm going home at the end of the month. where did you get this idea that morality had anything to do with an economic system ok nowhere in the wealth of nations that adam smith ever say greed is good i defy you to show me the page what he did say was that the reality is not a very useful way of looking at an economic system rather than the very good of it keep it short which keep it short it's really a sense of right and wrong when your parents teachers that not the economic system sorry but the wealth of nations the wealth of nations was written by a scotsman who lived about two hundred fifty years ago he led his ascent of the empire why should the rest of us be following his edicts secondly he never went to

india or china or asia didn't understand the world where nobody had the energy and he wrote a book called the theory of moral sentiments too but the economy is very conveniently tend to ignore all of that. and the wealth of nations does talk a lot about morality are you saying that nobody had any brains unless we rode into the top but two hundred years later we're still we still just referring to adam smith we still read plato we read farther. but it's not an. economist. so relevant and karl marx was well i think. frankly. to your fellow about things but you know i would like to mention one great thinker the ability to tell. he basically said the end justifies the means in the city you can always point your finger on somebody that's normal

reality in the system it's like a tit for tat it's like it's zero sum game and what we really need to do and maybe it's my. two pennies in a nutshell how to save capitalism is to give up this next you value mindset and go for a win win situation really be a positive so let's put it out ok to do it maybe as we wind this down can we have a win win situation first and we haven't really applied if you increase the pie if you have the pie which you have to do why is that always somebody's going to lose if you increase the price increase consumption through the month of supply yes. sorry but when we're talking hubris summer when others lose weight a minute well probably maryland if i do you balance it to stand if the world economy improves sure people are better off that's when when that's not when where when and who loses the people in china two hundred million people now have running

water is that lose a lot i didn't say that but why did you say hang on the cost of economic power economic growth in china following the current model has created a huge cost that's the challenge what kinds of soil in other words what you're referring to i really don't understand what kind of coke yeah who the environmental cause for people living in the first three is the huge and the chinese government the first to acknowledge that this is significant and they're taking huge in terms of trying to address that they know that they had unrestrained growth it has come with a huge price they have to completely look at things in a different where you're saying that everybody in china she go back to the one nine hundred seventy eight before i don't get out there i never said don't shouting this is not working left right gentlemen of the lead to the audience i want to keep the audience and gauge their give your name please and a quick question i meant a stimulus from canada and. i just had a question my mind sometimes you've been speaking a lot about letting businesses fail but in the current situation. you could almost

say countries have just a significant effect what situation what do you believe when it comes to countries should we let them also fail such as greece spain portugal iceland did you do to me the sovereign countries there's a company just going to hold it while i when they go bust here i would make the point that in iceland they let them fail iceland failed and now iceland since then has been one of the most rapidly growing prosperous countries in europe a stone here the same thing they failed and they have booms since we didn't twenty years ago they failed and yet now it's been booming argentina but you look at japan they refuse to let people fail it's twenty two years later in japan as last two decades that way does not work you let countries fail and then they start over again a way that's why they won't work i guess that is greece is all about saving the euro not saving the greek people i think can't let countries feel i'm european material even so i'm based in switzerland and deal with very quickly when it comes

to brussels but mr schorr solidarity to all the other european countries that just can't see that congress like germany sweden take advantage in terms of you know the strong exports in the. north of some congress will fail i think we have to help them it's a little solidarity maybe some of the very capitalist in the in the sink and i want to you know that's going to notify the story so much hope that you know what man is a man schools when you're born because you do your best i don't agree with this for you are single and you're born to be a good people and we should always try to be expect gentlemen and all of you know i want to ask you what about austerity is this the century of austerity i have time for and that i had some money union this is not this is another reason it is not a solution i would completely agree with greece would go but two years ago it would have been much but there right now yes. i know there's a green on your social unrest of people on the street have nothing to eat today when you go to a doctor increases to paying cash because it's oceanfront system is not working

anymore people are feeling it's a real problem your solution what is your solution and i'm supposed to pay for the great not you or your american who is going to be. here for you have your legal papers leave the rich police around then start writing back not needed for the last couple of so you're going back to the drug dealers at the current city and we're going to really cheap and we'll cover full of european tourists go into greek island you'll have perfect economy that they won't let me rethink leave me agrees we are saying the patients say what we do we do the big question is how do we make sure people don't get critically ill that's the question so way how did green get to where it is its extreme forms of they were spending suggesting to people they had everything my view is in this part of the world we should that is the extreme form of capitalism so we should not allow our spending by the government the reason

greece is not always easy is because of what's been done by the go the us is where it is because of overspending than government to the us should fail to us will fail don't worry when it has failed the world doesn't want to keep going back to our audience here sir please stand up give us your name islander a from moscow russia what do you think about the idea that capitalism system will be successful in k. the states will be their main capitalist in that sector states will decrease taxes and more shareholders will would be federal agents and everything would be ok it still depends on what kind of state we want what kind of state the union of socialist socialists the union of soviet socialist republics public of china. in people republic of china pay is one of the shareholder in many many enterprise right i know but they're selling them off they're selling them off and they're letting the market take take over but this is nothing wrong with that state is

working as a good capitalist in china it's increasing the twelve's and making money to feed all those people. sorry but he's going to turn it away to decrease texas in that way if any test will be criticized in the role as a lot of the states on chinese companies all of them think in the very capitalistic ways of thinking about that don't think about the profits they do not care about social responsibility in much less of a the many american the european companies face on conferences which drug for the state the make money this is a good debate but i thought we moved beyond saying that the opposite of capitalism or socialism this is not. by the way paying taxes is a good thing we should all pay taxes which is this everybody here you know why does everyone pay their fair share jim how much. did mitt romney pay a lot of. we don't know right hold on like wait wait a minute wait a minute are you a better judge your spending habits then your money or is george bush or is barack

obama three people who is the best choice of how to spend your money you george bush or barack obama so i never have a say in it and i think the system is rotten on both sides so you don't you don't think you should you should give them the money to the politicians to say spend my money spend my money i think money rich people should pay more money i do and i think middle class people should be giving away what's wrong why haven't more money why don't you have more money and spend it yourself instead of letting george bush think oh someone needs to build the roads so that you can draw just call because i want to build because we all build it we all build security so that you are saying so much american americans now were very much focused on. the american military has one thousand bases around the world so my taxes have to go to george bush so he can send one thousand military bases around the least i agree with what i agree with you on the democracy say you should be the most powerful military in the world and you choose that government i don't think i should say we should diminish. you go

around saying. that's your judgment are you listening or maybe you haven't been. paying attention maybe i haven't got a clear. to my mind the moment america believes it's when it flushes the military muscle that is your problem you've got to solve i don't know if we're going to solve it capitalism in american militarism scannell ok question. is a must for hong kong i think i think you stand up please sir and i think you don't need to give money to poor people or that is what you need to do is you need to to to engage them and that's what i like like like some good n.g.o.s are doing here in asia i interviewed some of them in thailand in malaysia and indonesia was the do you say to community if you want like better housing like first race on monday save some money and then we use arrest so that you appreciate what you have and what we came here jim what do you think of micro micro finance micro finance i mean small well there have been so many scandals and so many losses yes the first guy got

a nobel prize since then it's been corrupted corroded and it's been a disaster now people are going to jail that is an absolute exaggeration of what micro finance and. where did i live exactly did i say that was factually incorrect are there not people going to jail because of micro finance but the bankers just got to jail the. micro finance people who broke the rules of going to jail but to suggest that micro finance is corrupted all around the world is a great great i read about where the guy got a nobel prize then it has become very you do a lot more work. or up on the question as a result of financial lessons from cleveland to ration this is a wonderful concept so is christianity if you like great running around and you're right to get the specs are you suggesting want to finance has no place in the world i didn't say that the a ten a what i said was the first guy did a good job and there are good people doing it but it's like everything else where

there's religion politics education it gets close rather roads etc nobody plays a very important role for. those who entered a contest in the world because in the competitive markets have a right all right gentlemen welcome gentlemen this is i got exactly what i wanted i hope you did too i want to take a poll of the audience again is anybody change their mind ok i'll ask the question has capitalism lost its compass hands up. are you that you know the smart people. and so everybody thinks the reverse just the opposite with your hands of. the few i think is the least those who did i think it least we entertained you here ok it's the same amount here. that's it from our debate here at apec two thousand and twelve here in russia many thanks for your questions and taking part in please join me in thanking our distinguished panel right here it's goodbye from me peter lavelle and and everyone else here at the apec summit in blood of the stock thank you very much thank.