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hello and welcome to this important debate on whether capitalism has lost its compass and i would even say moral compass this is the first time russia has hosted the apex summit it's an organization representing big and small rich and poor countries from the asia pacific area more than twenty world leaders are attending this annual event including presidents from russia and china the u.s. secretary of state was just here and prime ministers of australia and new zealand also here in what about stuck in russia's far east is nearly one thousand business business executives and entrepreneurs' to discuss the important economic financial and corporate issues facing this region and the world and perhaps no issue is bigger than the current state of the global economy and whether capitalism has lost its compass its moral compass let's keep the moral element here i think we all can count so that's what we're debating and i have a great panel right here me arguing that capitalism has lost its compass general

and there he is the former c.e.o. of the global institute for tomorrow and he's author of consumption omics asia's role in reshaping capitalism and saving the planet. next we have frank you can return he's a german entrepreneur and chairman of the russes group a based international organization on the other side of the coin capitalism is just doing fine at least as an idea jim rogers at the end or known distinguished international investor and author of a gift to my children thank you to explain the title of the book and we also have a volley in it here is the. and plus group c.e.o. in one of russia's largest diversified industrial cunt conglomerate so please welcome our panel right thank you and i to take a poll here and i want you to be honest and i don't i really don't want people to stand in the middle raise your hand if you think capitalism is lost its compass

raise your hand if you think it's lost it's come ok does that automatically mean all the rest of you think it hasn't raise your hand if it hasn't lost its top ok jim i'm sure you people lost ok it's not scientific but it looks like eighty percent believe that it's still on track and twenty percent of you don't believe that capitalism is lost it's come so jim you say it hasn't why. capitalism is so far the best economic system which has been developed it has many many flaws there's no question about that but everything else is even worse everything else that mankind is ever trapped the problem peter in the last few years is not so much capitalism at least in the west in the west the governments have gotten in the way and the governments refuse to let people go bankrupt so we don't have to we don't have pure capitalism that's your problem right we don't have we turning don't have tempers and we have the governmental and now capitalism without bankruptcy is like

christianity without help they've got to let people go bankrupt and the government keeps bailing out its friends what happens when a minute here i'm playing up with this goes with the debate going on and they bail them out. well i live in hong kong so please don't do not confuse me as they get to capitals. and i think this is the important part of this conversation piece of the highest rates of the world but the discussion not should shouldn't be i think the cold war discussion of you know your capital as you anti countries i think that's probably a lazy way to have the discussion information persist. from agent perspective my my view will be that capitalism may be the best thing we've invented so far what we're suggesting go the end of history we think it's the only form so the point i would like to finish up with saying is. the fatal flaw of capitalism and we can talk about the banks and hedge funds and stuff like that is that it's absolutely the law

you are promoting relentless consumption through and externalizing cuts i'll finish by saying because you've really given me about ninety minutes to imagine that in twenty thirty five point five six billion asians can aspire and live like america is the height of responsibility this is simply not possible but this is not an environment of discussion it's a discussion about how therefore do we create prosperity that delivers on the social dimension which is fundamental to creating any form of capitalism but by quite painful it is asia should not aspire to replicate the exceptionalism of american capitalism ok let's talk about an emerging market some would think i mean it's calculus and people frankly mean that there are twenty three million people unemployed in the united states in fact in spain alone young people fifty percent i mean how do you tell capitalism these day i don't understand what

capitalism has to do with social responsibility to burnish their divorced this is completely different strains the fundamental nature of capitalism is individualism and gays and greet all the good things of our nature the stuff you want out of our good nature is always something you want to get to have than life was to go to hell it helps like that you can live something for children and think about the good sense you can do with wealth one created but this is the checks and balances now where maybe more established in places like united states which but less established in places like russia. well secretion and creation of businesses which can care for those consumers some consumption is good because this can create businesses that will take care of those consumers and fundamentally we're talking about the way to develop the will to develop the free enterprise and focus on doing . does not surprising visit where the vice president potential vice president the candidate for republican nomination is

a key in the middle and right and right because this is this is the center of of what america used to be. used to be and frank jump in capitalism definitely lost its compass peter and i would see him capitalism is here to stay but this will taint capitalism i'm your penis you know i'm based in surrey and when i came here to asia i feel a bit like an outsider a lot of actually europe bashing going on actually you're just in the white i think there to kind of schools why does europe bashing is going on in a lot of vashon asia by european. and we shouldn't bash anymore but it echoes of europe in the united states stop lecturing the world as well you know you're right you tax it all the time but you know and in place because in. my mind my language we're going to be back but some people see we are bloody capitalist our banks are destroying our financial systems lot of clear in the system but it's not

a school of thinking to say we're not capitalists anymore maybe you're thinking we all socialist or even marxist new europe usually only five hours a week we have seven weeks of vacation maybe you're complacent we are complacent you troy life of course we like to go to our mountains and lakes and what we really have to do is to reposition capitalism if to preserve capitalism but we have to get rid of the short term profit taking. i wish to recreate a link between the social the public and the capitalist short term german people who fail should be allowed to fail and go bankrupt what's happened now in the west every time somebody gets in trouble they call up the government save bailing out safely save me but they actually paying nothing and at the gym they did that to the banks they did that they did and did a little banks if you can for the article they don't get about markets preschool except when i want to. kill i can i say why in the united states the government

bails out the banks for instance and it wasn't just the banks the banks are us coming out of the world saying i failed at least for a sham and keep going keep going tell you why i think. first you've got you have to provide for that wisconsin that's not socialism gender but you have to to promote alertness consumption you have to do two things you have to control constantly at a price external of resources and on the price externalities when you do that you have to do something else you have to fight any attempt to regulation this is become the mantra of business fight regulation this is not that healthy that regulation is no good except that when you eventually get to the stage where this is dangerous rooted it undermined regulation that you have something else that happens you begin to have this sort of centrist usurping the state ok but then you assert the state it's a good one a very that we're in. some ways distinctly in all this we're just the state because

we want a piece of all sales and lot of people say that the big capitalism that's what i'm going to call them is captured. the state is in the wrong place and shouldn't be where it is because they're currently in europe the problem is not this was underlined companies the problem was a bunch of government officials who couldn't agree on a single thing right. let states lock my door into the affairs and consumptions ways it was good because it was the size of supply and demand equation you need to have to market to create supply not to create supply you create companies that produce products that people will consume and let's say enough about them do you know anybody who didn't want a better standard of living for themselves for their children and grandchildren you know any human being in history i has i want to live there i think that's a false question of course i don't know anyone who knows what is entitlement to you know free just to buy another house that instead of living that's not that's not the point i'm talking about i agree they should live on

a mortgage i think we constantly use this cliche terms i'm sorry to suggest that any one to say is that there must be limits but i want to talk about the asia pacific region that is the way five billion people can live like americans so we don't have to think about it very differently one billion asians getting richer this or iraq the world another does it will do him a zing things to so us and if this franchise is the majority i am saying if you want to address the poverty issue in creation for stability we are going to need to price tag still so you're saying that the one billion asians should always be poor because you said they should be poor new york i have to say you oversimplify just got through saying one of the issues can i say root right now thank you i'll start with you.

it's easy to do it's. fifty feet. deep. it's. i've had to next question dates in believe me oh just have a one to two the execution date is enough for anybody to go through more life tests . you know more than fifty percent of the people who are if you didn't texas are not. why you know live in north darfur is larry oh. this is like you know we execute our convicted capital murder we have the highest execution rate in america we're not afraid to do it we do it well this becomes a point when death becomes. all i ever knew i hope. i

will get a letter your dad is due to be executed next week then as appears scary moment for you to know you can loose here want to be appearing at the in a manner of myths and that's the time to go. and i would lead them into the to the best chamber of. commerce trade till after they were dating. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tired because i think.

and this is typical of this sort of a reaction of people dumbed down the conversation this is dumb dumb conversation i have not said people should be poor the reverse will happen because the majority of asians will be left behind and if you want to get the majority at the minimum level and car ownership is not the basic rights of life i'm sorry i want frank to jump in here we've got to singapore people donors. of capitalism i think that's maybe the worst thing to do you know really let me tell you you know i'm a i'm a liberal not indian maybe american definition but if you're all british tradition in the last year or so actually i talked a bit was a social approach i think we have to go against speculations because that's really at the heart of all this market feelers happening right now think about all scandal

in europe right european paris really neither does my program line more ok ok that's a bit too that's good and you know what a lot of flights of the year and what we really need to do is to think about the public get on the noose of course to make money you know that's that's we all make money and it's a good thing we have you even spending this money and it's good consumption but we have to think about all those people with all the chops this to create employment fifty percent of i'm employed spanish people it's really a shame you know i'm really it's awful in maybe what we need maybe let me you know what do you think we need. we need better governments in europe usually most governments are in the pockets of the banks. and i think that the radicals that head to head for a single discussion at the moment we are in the country which for seventy years tried to implement a very simple series that everybody equally poor and i know a little bit a little bit remember i never said so please be very careful because that is.

what you did say was one say you did say that you and mao tse-tung and joseph stalin should decide who gets why did you say that. what is your trademark. please be very clear this is the oversimplification that takes place the twenty first century cannot have this rhetoric of the twentieth but the funds are because their economic growth will last ten years primarily because come this million chinese move to one of the villages where the leave them agree to the city and they now want to live with less they want to have life they want to have a greater perhaps in the car and that will drive the gentleman i'm going to be a bit authoritarians my parents i want the audience to produce paid i want questions it's go like with jim rogers how to cope. when they decide well disparate. although there was huge wealth disparity under the communists did you ever come you're not old enough to remember but if you had gone to moscow and

leningrad i know it was the beer you cannot believe the disparity most russians were standing in queues all day long while the leaders of the communist party branch have had twenty five and now he had a hundred cars he had one hundred automobile ok then go talk about how to leave them in the truck about capitalism in russia if you have a critique of that it won't bring in lenin because that's long gone and nobody wants that again ok i enjoyed and. i'm a communist the boy educated in china is the definition of capitalism sure ok so i can. bring back to my d. dot com excellent question who wants to i want to feel the cold i was told i would give me the definition of life always i want i can ok want a definition from both sides both sides i want to feel that all my friends that's good for grazing i would tell you that in china. the best capitalist in the world even though you call yourselves common. right on this side of the panel so that's

not a separate issue of capitalism i want a definition from a white man what is taxes are going to go it go what is happening now ok i think you know we need to go on for a new opener squeeze rails and open to the heart of capitalism making money right in the things we don't need less capitalist but more capitalist ideal rules everybody should be a capitalist not depending on the state but unfortunately they're not living in the ideal bricks so i think capitalist should give back to society should pay taxes to secure a very traditional i'm going to be more than kind you wrote about her trying to impose things on some poor and to burn out the trying to make money and well it's just such an old style in the world these should be the father for allowing them to do with the but which created companies jobst well ok as long ago even more and more people behind us always keep the moral compass here that i have and i answer your question very briefly again i would try and answer it by saying this is not about whether we have a new definition of capitalism the definition from

a chinese point of view i would say one point two billion people in china cannot have access and dream of having a car you and i know that i go to tumble if there's a growing chorus of finance or it's a definition of capitalism that all will be how do you provide access to the most basic needs of people which is food water housing public health and education all right we have another question question a. what's the alternative if where if we're saying capitalism this last company wanting to rank first go ahead because you get a traditional view it's social capitalism right so we have to give back to the site actually be on the team chemistry but i think i disagree in one thing the chinese should own their cars they know that to do it because you know we can go one on the road again like that's. called the americans the russians own cars but the chinese shouldn't so you're living on the populated another question here over here a very quick question how do you name your said john. how do capitalists balance

the confrontations with corruption good sort question good when jamey body has corruption where christians buddhist socialist communist everybody has corruption now yes they should all go to jail if you ask me they should have lots of people in the street and then the banking industry should be in jail right now the president of the new york stock exchange should be in jail right now. so that's. why we have a young lady a parent could figure out a way not to. have a beautiful russia the i mean i think you want to ask ask the question go ahead when we look at capital as a very traditional model of capitalism where the company is responsible for its shareholders now in the car companies and not just to show that we have the concept of corporate social responsibility should we change to a mode of capitalism that is reliant on the corporate contract where

a company is all stakeholders involved and that would be sustainable. i mean i don't twenty years with some of the biggest companies in the world in corporate social responsibility it's all very good but much of it is flimsy it doesn't really deal with the core issues i've talked about that essentially companies need to produce more to produce more they will need to use resources externalized costs etc much of corporate social responsibility has become a p.r. exercise and flimsy argument so i don't think that's really the reshaping of capitalism on this side of the panel where i was just going to say yes that's wonderful everything you just said and most corporations stay in business have to satisfy everybody but in the end somebody has to pay for this is the main problem it is. wanting to. hang on one second as someone else said the problem is socialism you eventually run out of other people's money somebody has to

pay for this. ok yes we the taxpayer will pay for this how how you got a question right here we're going to break. right there when i was discussed voices of future russia question jim you're familiar with greg smith's resignation letter to the new york times from goldman sachs in the letter he briefly describes the money is more important than clients in the bank business and do you think that that's the case with capitalism in american other parts of the world people put money ahead of the consumer i'm sorry this is a case of the failed model of the investment banking because if they wanted more money they would take care of their clients so. i think just to move on i think we need to move away about from a dozen banks i agree i mean that's just one element the discussion we should be having is how do we should we shape. capitalism to fulfill the

needs of a constraint planet not an environmental discussion where the greatest proportion of the population are going to be living in the asian pacific my argument is the current month of externalizing cost and pricing things down will not deliver on that prosperity which we want to share it's not about c.s.r. it's not about investment banks it's a much wider political question how do we deliver that and that is the discussion because it's a political discussion from the c.d.c. to row from moscow based on entrepreneur are we not confusing confusing terminology actually capitalism in the economic system based on private ownership of means of production and what you're referring to is really is are matters of spirituality and moral duty why are we burgeoning in an economic system with these with this liability should it not be the other part of life and social activity that should be taken care of the spirituality and morality whatever you can i. have to

agree with jim is the best system there is for what it should be which is an economic system it's a system of how my argument is purely economics argument about externalizing because i was not talking about morality of religion at all and this is the problem the moment you talk about something against the status quo then you must be a hippie you must be some angry person or you don't understand or you must be on a higher moral ground most of this is not about morality it's about pricing capitalism as it slides stands today thrives on underpricing my argument for asia is we need to reject this will need to reshape it if a compass is to be found for capitalism it will have to be made in asia there's a good point genuine a drop in center and it's clear you don't understand you're right how are you going to prevent one billion asians from having a better standard who's going to decide what is about you. jim tell me what most people want a lexus if they want so i'm trying hard i say i'm against that but i know i'm

saying but a better standard of living is not car ownership you and i live in asia mode asian cities need more cars like i have lost much more patience or different set up that would result in a busier they want cars they want to know so they want to know if you have it it's a huge said they can have it no. i'm not saying it i'm saying the reality will be they can go together because they can of course the car yes they can. decide for them right out you know the consumer is made up of about morality we have to talk about it maybe that america needs to have you on mars but the asians will have you know i think their marriage will have everyone in the world will have a car but the americans if they continue down the path they are now frank we have to talk about morality i think i like the of australian friends to move from shareholder value to speak a little you including everybody today actually president calderon talked about principles and he talked about principles in the governmental context but we need also principles in drilling off on benefit capitalism and if we stick to principles

to go today to washing his teeth or the profit you feel i feel there's a lot of corruption actually we call it corporate africa see all of it into a hole in a hole in your pocket maybe that's a certain boy. so i think it's pretty important but we're really going to happen if you tried to regulate big businesses small businesses and a business to install a lot of things on top of them which tried to extract money in a way which is which is not in the market system let the businesses who are close them great access and let the government distribute the money to what they were unprivileged isn't there but the state is fundamental to making the rules otherwise we have cable i mean let's take car ownership i'll bang on about cars the roads are not made by the car companies it's made by the state. i mean will and all of the is all done by the donald all right dumbass j. all right i need to change gears here ok i think that we we finessed this what is

wrong with couples and.