you know activists and you know you wouldn't say that about any other social movement you know where there was labor a women's movement or the civil rights movement that three hundred sixty five days later say oh well they didn't accomplish all their maximal goals therefore they're done i think the issues are still there it's too complex too complex the austerity is still being shoved down the throats of innocent people who had nothing to do with this wall street scandal and no banks are bankers have been held accountable and that has not changed and they're being just as reckless with the money guaranteed federal money as they were a year ago so we're just setting up the next crisis to go lie bore and all these other scandals just wait just wait a year from now we might be talking about occupy wall street two point zero after the next crash that they're setting us up for because nobody went to jail no tougher regulations when the banks are bigger and more consolidated than ever and they're doing the same kind of gambling with federally insured money they were

doing i mean jazz you're everything you're saying that proves that the occupy movement hasn't done anything so many if we go to you in islamabad what do you think about this. sure i would have to agree with joseph here because if you look at it overall the american system of the society was basically based on the entrepreneurship and the growth that came from that entrepreneurship and equal opportunity well today if you look at the unemployment rate in the u.s. i was in the u.s. about a month and a half ago i lived there for fourteen years i worked there for about ten years and i worked on wall street so i know exactly what the occupy wall street movement is all about and i would have to agree with joseph here again that it's only been a year and a movement has to do it's only started so we have to give it some more time and not only that i mean just the concept itself if you look at the jobless rate increasing and the number of foreclosures also increasing and you and you and there's no relief in sight even even with the elections there's really no i mean when i when you look at the campaigns there's not much there so the so the public will actually

come behind this movement and i believe in the next year and going forward this moment is actually going to. grow rather than die ok it's two against one charles where you say to those guys to our guests i take issue with that i think on two fronts the first is that if the occupy movement was at the strength that it was say nine months ago to say well it's too early would make more sense it has fizzled or one could argue that it's going to come back and be resurgent i don't think there's much evidence for that but i suppose we will leave that to history the second point the more important point is that it is a myth that the occupy movement grew up in response to the financial crisis it is a myth but if you are asked the people involved with it as i did over a period of months what is it that you want that they would say well you know i felt the financial crisis and i felt that too big to fail was and so on and so forth where we need more regulation and so on the litany of grievances that they

have put forth with the same ones that they were putting. fourth in one nine hundred sixty nine hundred seventy nine eighty in fact in the progressive movement when it started if you look at the average age of the people down there the they tended to be very young and impressionable or much older people who is the lost her are people perhaps who were upset at having missed out on the civil rights movement i don't think that it is fair to point to the financial crisis and explain the the occupy movement as the product of that i think it's perhaps fair to look at the financial crisis and explain the tea party as a product of that but we should on no account mix up those two groups ok sam if we go back you an islamic the tea party was mentioned here why doesn't the occupy movement do something like that get organized i mean the only thing is you know if you if you look at any woman start of there's unfair practice and if you look at the economics or or if you look at a household if it's going to be in june it's going to hurt you and your family and

your children and their finances but their education their livelihood that i think it's you know not just a small movement to begin with and it's not going to just die out i listen until we see the economic boom back again or receive some stimulus at least in the u.s. or the other western economies i think it's actually going to grow and it's not just any party ok justifying that raise a go go ahead jump in that's the point of the program doesn't that raise a question how is it that this occupy movement that is supposedly so far reaching and so potent and ready to spring back into action has done nothing in a year and we're supposed to sit here and say well it's too early to judge i understand the historical argument for that but the tea party which grew up in a year and a half managed to bring a republican house with the largest majority since the one nine hundred forty s. how is it that one is supposed to be let alone until it comes to fruition and the other was quickly efficacious how do you explain that joseph you want to feel that

i want to go ahead. well there's a group called americans for prosperity there's a group called freedom works or bankrolled by billionaires right wing corporate billionaires it financed the tea party from the beginning dick armey used to be majority leader in the house of representatives for the republicans from texas and he's one of the big players behind freedom works they were backed by corporate money or astroturf from the start and what they were able to do is tap into a latent racism directed at barack obama as the for a flat president in my view yes blatant racism in american society that's why they say he's from kenya all this stuff about how they there they went absolutely the right wing in this country when book bonkers with the first african-american president what they don't realize that it was what the occupy wall street people realize he got elected quite handily sure that's a good as well as you can try and let us know how we got in well while listen to

this we were waiting for barack obama do something about the banks all we got was seven hundred thousand laid off public sector workers in the united states mostly teachers we've got budget cuts all over the place they've crippled the public university systems in many states and with so they've shifted out austerity down to working people who are already making lower wages and we haven't thirty years in this country most workers they threw it on the people who were innocent and nothing to do with the financial crisis and then they well austerity there is resistance to austerity and make sense to the leats and i'll tell you why why the f.b.i. be infiltrating these groups all across the country then why are they using tear gas and repression on these groups of the elites are so oh this is nothing this movement doesn't mean anything it went all the way to hong kong and back right the movement did but this doesn't frankly doesn't end up a very good and then see that this guy is i'm about to land into this i'm a what if he achieved ok this is what i'm trying to get out one year on ok they

changed the conversation what do you mean. i mean again i come back to the thread through the idea of the movement i mean i'm sitting in pakistan and you know the other side of the world and coming here and knowing about the movement itself it can't be a small movement to begin with if if the other part of the world is also talking about it and if you read articles in this country or some of the other countries in the asian economies you'll understand that the idea of the concept of bothers most of the economists on this side of the of the world so it's not just about you know a wall street doing well at the banks or the or the financial services sector doing well i think the only thing the obama administration did was putting a cap on the on the salaries of the top executives but if you look at the overall structure i'll again agree with joseph here that you know of i mean nothing much was done and unless and until there is fair in all our distribution of wealth or crossed the your overall society i think we are just you know the problem and stay

in the movement will catch on ok but joseph you're not organized like you calkin you change things if you can organize the people. well they are organized and you know first of all a year it's like one hundred days for f.d.r. or something or it's an arbitrary demarcation line these problems have not gone away there are students that are active they're fighting on all different fronts now students are active about occupy and getting rid of their crippling student loan debt they have on them but the same bank slapped on them because this was privatized loans in the two thousands right and then there's people working on the home on the occupy in the homes there's people making inroads with labor right now in other words that was a shot in the arm to the progressive left in the united states if anything else and that's a good thing because the electoral politics in this country are so corrupt and static and incapable of addressing any of the important problems facing us that an obama head so dropped the ball going in the two thousand and ten you want to know

why the tea party wanted two thousand and ten is because barack obama threw a wet blanket over his own base going into two thousand and ten because he didn't do any of the things that he really promised to do and so his case was to me when i was a break just as those i mean. any adult is just as critical of obama as they would be of mitt romney. absolutely critical of the electoral politics in washington being corrupt dysfunctional forget about it what occupy is doing the horizontal structure working with the labor unions working with the environmentalists the student movements we've got to get out of this democrat republican frame if you're not a donkey or a elephant the corporate media doesn't know where to plug you and that's why everybody's puzzled about oh what is this what is this movement well it's a repudiation of the corruption in washington they cannot get anything done and will not get anything done with specially when it's at the banks the banks run the show everybody knows that that's why they landed in wall street i just want to jump

in here gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the occupy movement one iran state. wealthy british scientists on hold some time to practice. for their. markets why not scandals. find out what's really happening to the global economy in these kinds of reports.

is steve. to. say. it's. like millions of americans i've lost thousands of dollars in retirement funds and i haven't had as bad as many that's not just about the them it's about me to. me man brad ya got to show. up. and say i. need it. now. since

this is my film i get the last word this financial crisis will not be turned off like a light switch. to be soo much brighter if you move. from place to question. his claim starts on t.v. dot com. i've.

lived. under. and if you. still. want to elect. welcome back to cross the time came about to mind you were talking

about the anniversary of the occupy movement one year on. eleven. and you can. start. ok charles i'd like to go back to you in london i would say the occupy movement has been very successful because american politics now the rhetoric of class warfare is succeeding for the obama people. i think that or remains to be seen he's certainly trying it and he certainly might win the election i think if i may i the greece to which occupy wall street supporters will go to deny claim truth is quite astonishing. we are the ninety nine percent is their slogan and every time we hear we don't need to work through democratic institutions because democratic institutions are corrupt that wouldn't matter of course if they actually were the ninety nine percent rather than just supposedly supporting or endorsing the ninety nine percent where you have here is

a fringe movement of progressives that is never been popular in american society and never will now a few of their ideas would push towards a fifty percent mark but almost none of them do saying well we are correct we have the right answers to these this will work for the ninety nine percent therefore it should be policy i'm afraid i don't think unlike joseph seems to that the american public is that stupid i also don't think that just because the tea party had some money behind it so does the left incidentally with george soros and so on but just because the tea party had some money behind it that everyone in america is so brain dead that they sort of just in a commercial on television i will vote for whoever i'm told and i don't understand how barack obama could have benefited in two thousand and eight from the financial crisis then be told that it's so terrible and nothing can change and be so shellac to see put it in two thousand and ten the evidence in favor of occupy wall street having had a material difference on american politics beyond some of the rhetoric is minimal

and you have to go to great lengths to pretend that isn't the case ok so many in there it is one that you want to reply to that i mean basically meaning which movement it's rhetoric. well you know i mean i've worked on wall street as i said before currently i'm working on social entrepreneurship and i think that you know if if we go towards social sectors there has to be some social benefit coming out of these very heavy banks or financial companies or or that one percent. you know where the wealth is accumulated my only other question to charles would be you know what about the madoff scandal why did it get to a fifty billion dollars scandal these are the reasons for it if if there were it was a crowd of checks and balances there in place it would have gotten there. defined fad of science. it was if. anybody's going to make the argument that the i don't know if anybody's going to make a serious argument that the wall street scandal was caused by

a few bad apples the whole barrel is corrupt and everybody knows it and they've shown over and over again a lie board just to another tip of the iceberg all the stuff that the fed was doing too but i know the point we come back to point to me about well you know the people are dumb they don't know what's going on they're not the ninety nine percent so look all you have to do is look at this recent election they've got they've nominated the republicans have nominated almost a perfect example of the kind of mindset of the billionaire detached human being as a walking corporation that runs american politics and people are not turned on to mitt romney and if everybody was like if everything was so nice and like i don't know if charles is aware of this but we lost about eight million jobs in the us cross the board the private sector failed this country in two thousand and eight i later i'm in the somehow they feel they use their connections in what will great somehow washington through all of that like they did in london two they threw it

all therapy on people who had nothing to do with the scandal who actually got ripped off by you know everybody what i've found out there is that there is an erosion of the legitimacy of the system itself if you talk to people anybody new ask them what they think about banks what i think about capitalism what they think about inequality and you will get answers today that four years ago you would not get people today they don't really care about their credit ratings anymore because everybody's got bad credit now you know they don't care about foreclosures they used to be a shameful thing to happen to a family only for clothes that's not shameful anymore the proletariat in this country now the working low wage workers they have let less faith in capitalism than they did four years ago and what occupy wall street is trying to do was chance . all that critique and to some constructive political organizing they made inroads with labor unions ok new york you want to dismiss labor unions what are right ahead

but they're not going to go away they're not going to go away and they're going to they're going to organize these low wage well they are going to do it at some point the wal-mart workers know they're not you watch wal-mart workers all this new low wage economy we were in the only path for them and take they'll find is labor union as of and they'll be a resurgence of that and occupy wall street had that connection going right into it trust me there we just had a major strike in chicago by the teachers there that didn't just have to. pay out and then evaluate the reader i think i was just band guy had received on your opinion go ahead charles i disagree with i cannot believe i'm on the leave that i cannot i don't want to wish to go and teach in chicago i woulda been more of a teacher in class and. around us you'll get i think part of that horrendous machine where you have you know what you know what you know what is great about the right at home and how to go there are. going to look i would be. behind romney i

think he's perfect by any means but the chicago's teachers union is the extremely extremely creative they want a sixteen percent increase on an average salary that is higher i think than was a seventy thousand dollars seventy five thousand dollars. you think that's the model for the united states the leading economic times you know it you know what it's centrally run sounds like also henry is going to use that. you could hire one half of the working class to kill off the other half of the working class that's what we're seeing in america right now they're attacking public employees unions it's displaced and we stuck to how i was or you they were pointing the finger in the right direction they were pointing the finger on wall street jamie diamond all those guy j.p. morgan chase those are the people we need to look at not public employee unions and workers and ok gentlemen gentlemen i want to stay away from chicago i want to go to islamabad ok why does been achieved against wall street in the last year the occupy

movement has done nothing in that regard well i mean i i tell a few thoughts before that i mean she the problem is twofold one is that not only that you know you're feeling the pinch off not having enough funds but also the cost of living across the across the globe i mean i was in seventy eight countries and months ago and i saw that cost of living has gone up everywhere so the inflationary you know inflation is hitting everybody all all across whether it's us or europe or anyone else but at the same time we look at china and we look at the growth that the china has or maybe india for that matter and some of the other economies in the asian. continent so then we that does propose to question about the overall not only capitalism but also social structures and how this capitalism has given back to the society or not so the occupy wall street given much i think it has it has to address all of that charles jumping go ahead. there

is a one party dictatorship with a gulag. we really are going to have it out that get that. manufactures everything americans consume it through you know everything we saw is so are you what you want to do was get i was just going to say that part of obama's part right the reason why obama was elected was millions of people thought he might do something about the banks about about shoring up the public sector in this crisis and you know and his little tiny reforms that took place were not even close and so now we've got more consolidated banks than before and if you want to peter i'll answer your question what is wall street for wall street accomplished well very little if the measurement is pressuring congress to do anything all they've done is they've run the gamut in the good news for charles is that the republicans are probably going to win the senate and not if not this year fourteen and they'll probably win the presidency in sixteen so have at it i mean we can't count on electoral politics

because it's the republicans are gay around but usually i mean is it with you and why don't you make a political party ok why don't you make a political party. there are immense structural i mean the arena is doing really great if they were so great that's one alternative go ahead why doesn't obama pick up well. well blah blah blah blah blah must have been a great job. obama's just been a corporate liberal all along and that's what's kind of funny because the venom from the right is that he's this radical socialist and you can get a more straight story larry moderate and if he gets a second term he's going to give he's going to give away the store i'm convinced of that i mean the stories are even given away. then go ahead joe yeah charles go ahead is it not possible that obama doesn't pick up occupy wall street because he's realized that it's toxic when joseph and i seem to disagree on everything but one

thing i will agree with him in part on is that this this movement is the product of obama i think obama came in and i think he was a sort of human rule shot test on to which everybody projected their desires that they weren't quite sure what he wanted there was a period of economic instability mccain was a weak character people were tired of bush he was the first black president which was extremely moving i wrote about this at the time and i think people saw obama as this guy who was going to fix everything i do think that occupy wall street is impossible without barack obama having failed to deliver what progressives want but you see there in lies my my basic point which is that progressive saw barack obama as their savior and he hasn't been and so the progressive movement that has historically been a part of the democratic party albeit on its fringes now has stepped outside politics and said well there's nobody who can cater to our needs we don't wish to be republicans we don't wish to be democrats now i don't think that is a terrible thing because the progressive ideas that i heard with the exception of

criticizing the banks which i do as well i'm appalled by what happened but the progressive ideas that i heard i was i was shocked by and i don't wish to. to be pushed into the american mainstream or picked up by either party could i wish them to come to fruition and my instinct is that nor does the american public and that's why the democratic party having initially said maybe there's something here is has run away from it as if it was as if it were cancerous ok joseph i'm going to give you the last word on the program where we will be occupy movement be in a year's time well hopefully making more inroads into the labor union movement helping organize low low wage workers and that kind of thing wait for the next crisis it's common there are these crises are like trolley cars one goes by there is one right behind wait till the bottom falls out the next time they come to congress and they want seven hundred billion pressing no doubt now because they just have ok thank you gentlemen many thanks today to my guests in sacramento london and in islamabad and thanks to our viewers for watching us to see you next time and remember.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so for lengthly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm charging welcome to the big picture. the first.

of oh no.

more news today in holland says one city. and fleda. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. china operations are all day. world of the. science technology innovation all the list i'm elements from around russia we've got those huge earth covered.