take many hours to reach the nearest village so all medical problems simply fixed here in the tent. they used to be but now we can go to civilized places so we call for emergency help. back at hospital other patients helped by the air ambulance are being treated the service costs forty million dollars a year to run and there's been controversy with some claiming that locals exaggerate or make up health problems and use the helicopters as a free taxi service accusations vladimir firmly dismisses your brother is not true usually the calls are perfectly justified sometimes we reproach locals for waiting too long before calling us he's been working as a doctor now for forty three years but let him it was confident the diva now after he retires his helicopter doctors will remain a lifeline to the peoples of the russian far north. if you.

follow in welcome across the archive people of l. when is the end really the end of the strategy of the u.s. led mission in afghanistan is in a shambles green on blue attacks against coalition forces speak volumes on how many afghans feel about became canute occupation of their country by western troops isn't it time to negotiate with the taliban and end this military adventure. to cross-talk the u.s. mission in afghanistan i'm joined by michael maloof in washington he's a senior reporter for the world net daily and a former analyst for the defense department also in washington we have made my g.d.r. he is a senior research associate at the american enterprise institute and in beirut we cross to michael black and he is a freelance journalist all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i've made in washington you wrote recently that c.n.n.

u.s. faces growing green on blue challenge what's the thesis of your article please explain it to my audience. of course we've seen dramatic rise in green on blue attacks in afghanistan which has eroded trust between the coalition forces and the afghan security forces we know that the core mission and afghanistan right now is to train and straighten the afghan security forces so they are able to take security responsibilities and prevent the return of the taliban al qaeda once foreign troops are gone but now with dificid and trust that important pella off this strategy is in question and indeed the according to the eye itself. the taliban has been responsible for twenty five percent of the green on blue attacks but the rest of that results from. personal grievances cultural and religious and

it is a war fatigue adders but i think that it is also important not to exaggerate the level of threat from the taliban infiltration because there are hundreds of contacts between the afghan forces and the coalition forces on a daily basis and they are still not the common trends we know that this is the signature. strategy by the taliban to create this distrust because they know that the afghan security forces will be a permanent threat to their strategies and they know it as a foreign troops are leave it sounds right yes foreign troops are leaving michael how would you respond to what our guest our other guest in washington said well i agree with with him for the most part but i think that the threat is a little more serious than the outline is so serious that the united states certainly has suspended some of its training activities and it is actually caused a decrease in morale well michael if i could jump in here real quick isn't that

really the last trump card the u.s. and its coalition partners have is to train these people that's the last thing they have. please go ahead well you're you're absolutely right and i think that the taliban has been very clever and figuring this out and they're actually undermining what it is supposed to be a long standing long term effort by the united states it doesn't necessarily mean that the united states is going to completely pull. afghanistan i think it may mean that we're going to have delay in some departures but that the trust element is certainly there and and the the intent i think of the united states would be to try to keep and prop up the afghan government for as long as possible because once i self troops leave it's only going be a question of time before their government and i think a lot of this is being you getting ahead of us you let me go to my can be root here

i mean if if the u.s. and its allies can't train afghan security then why stay well exactly i think this is the central point i mean i don't think so much the training was a trump card our i think it was frankly the last card the last of the dice or of simply the events of withdrawal i don't think i've any serious intention of delaying a pullout i think i will go in twenty fourteen because they want to have they've lost the will to fight this war because the west has lost it frankly we haven't done what we set out to do no matter how many times we tried to redefine the mission we failed in every category and finally now we can even trust the people fighting alongside and the people we expect to contain the situation after we leave so i think i don't honestly believe that we have any more options we've used them all up and frankly this is just a fig leaf to say we're staying it's train them this proves that this statement saying we're going to suspend the joint patrols means we are trying and as you've mentioned several train in the model so we doing ok i mean what else are we doing to be there now let's go back to washington go ahead. peter i didn't mean to

downplay the implications of the rise in green blue attacks because as my colleague mentioned. we already see a restriction in joint operations which is significant from the military mission there and also there are political implications to that both in europe are also here in washington because the war is already very much unpopular but what i meant was that the recent said backs that we've seen in afghanistan should not the fact that we've had tremendous progress in afghanistan over the past three years there has been significant improvement in the size and quality of the afghan security forces three years ago we had a very poorly equipped and trained. security personnel of about one hundred ninety thousand now the number is three hundred fifty thousand there are leaving about fifty percent of the operations in the east and south and also taking responsibility for security of about seventy five percent and all over the country

and also as a result of the surge we saw that the taliban were pushed away from their. strongholds in saudi and afghanistan so that's why it's important that we stay the course we and the international community the main committed to afghanistan to sustain again made over the past three years and also the transition process needs to be condition based gradual and orderly in order to succeed that i think that the world community has a very good chance of success and i understand that their strategy there should be very benign so it's not just with broad brushes right there if i go back to michael in washington what do you think troops there american troops british troops think now i mean fine fieri in practice and all of this stuff in washington london and all that but their lives are it's stake for people they know. well that's absolutely correct and i think that even our leadership in the united states and

the defense department has commented on the fact that it has caused them demoralizing the troop morale and consequently. not going to have an effective fighting force as a consequence i think what the united states is going to probably attempt to do is as a begin to pull out they're really going to be counting on other countries in the region to come in and fill that void. to provide the security as you may know that the karzai government made an arrangement with the indian government to begin to train afghan forces one size leaves which is really. standing isn't it it's a really popular very popular and it's really created it's going to create a real problem and of course the the afghan taliban is a proxy for the pakistani government you know mike in beirut you know what about the karzai government i mean how strong is that again when we start withdrawing i mean is karzai going to get on the last plane. five that we get on the last plane

but to go anyway after that after the elections in twenty fourteen solid us are in place which are i think that they probably will but just to pick up on a couple of points about these improvements again hearing about i mean speaking earlier this year lieutenant general cody scott scott a party is a forgive the response the ocean he's the second highest ranking soldier in afghanistan at that so i was just moved back to washington during the summer he actually said in that only one percent of afghan battalions could operate independently and that was this year he said that so it is fifty percent of afghan battalions operating independently of nato troops comes from it is a mystery to me i mean i think we've got to be realistic about what we've achieved here ok we haven't achieved in eleven years a great deal we're talking about very small pluses over an eleven year period you know basically we just have to accept the fact that you know this isn't a withdrawal it's a retreat in this retreat in the face of a war that's unwinnable by any criteria i don't think anyone expected

a clear cut victory for either side in this but what they really didn't expect was the fact that the west of mishandled this so badly that it's led to now to them basically leaving as they did in iraq are still doing it with so between the legs ok and we can't pass that up any any any other way i mean we talk about improvements again just as one point two thousand the two thousand american soldiers killed this week in afghanistan and the three years ago the figure is something like eight or nine hundred so that's doubled in three years and that's the same for the british troop numbers that number that's has doubled in the last three years that's not an improvement by any of stick men shouldn't we should really say it is men in washington respond to the improvements. yes i think that we are when we are talking that not more than one percent of the afghan security forces are independent we are judging them by their western standards but there has been improvement and afghan security forces and i don't think that we can just we're not going to. be frightened which action by standard.

sort of dropped just so judging by what i stand and i do agree with you that is the taliban terribly well at the moment so. what the western stand would get in there is actually not not not winning the war either so if i can come up with that standard then i disagree whether i should i want to thank you. let me go ahead go ahead right i agree with mike on one thing that the afghan security forces still remain reliant on the coalition forces when it comes to support will primarily the air power because that. force is almost nonexistent and also when it comes to just take this applies the chain of supplies over there and i think that if they call a show of force this in the next two three years help the afghan security forces with the air power and also the supply chain of supplies so if they become independent i believe that they can take the war themselves michael in washington i mean trusting the karzai government to mean there's not much trust or not much love there anymore. no and i think the i think corruption still really is supreme in

that in that government and as a consequence i think karzai who is is basically going to step down that once is term and is looking for survival and he has been paving the way and talking to the pakistanis trying to do something to with the recognition that up the taliban is going to have to be included somehow in that in his government structure and i think that he's trying to keep something alive there and keep it going and keep the telo and work with the taliban although i think the taliban realize that it's just a question of time and they're going to probably take over whenever they whenever they ice out and leave a little less we're going to short break and when we return we'll talk about the taliban after a short break we'll continue our discussion on afghanistan. by

truckster. where the road. as a carpenter. farmer . as an assistant. as a friend. as

a relative. delivering post and delivering good. news. download the official location cell phone language stream quality and enjoy your favorite. t.v. is not required to watch on t.v. all you need is your mobile device to watch on t.v. any time the. wealthy british style.

market. can. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's cancer for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines two kinds a report. and you can. start. and. welcome back to people go to mind you were talking about the u.s. led military presence in afghanistan. and. ok mike about to go back to you in beirut the time has come to sit down and negotiate a withdrawal with the taliban as much as you don't like it's time to do it to do it it's time for the neighborhood to mend itself it will be very bloody and very messy but only the neighborhood can do this agree or disagree. oh i agree entirely that

instead of the west of that they know this themselves that they had negotiations. with the taliban which broke down at some point they're trying to quite desperate inside believe because they want to tie the taliban inside to go generations again to provide some kind of a fig leaf for when they exit in twenty fourteen so i mean yes it's always been time to sort of the taliban because militarily that this was unwinnable ok i made a bet in washington why do you argue against dealing with the koala bear. was a question about the consolation where the taliban are the government you know is part of the withdrawal of western forces because the taliban are staying western forces are leaving ok those are the two knowns the talks yes the talks with the taliban is nothing new indeed the united states has tried negotiations with the taliban over the past three years but it has had no results so far as a government has tried it very aggressively since two thousand and three but the

taliban response has only been increased violence and also there have refused to cut ties with al qaeda and even come to sit. on the table with the afghan government and accept afghan government as the government they did to mitt system in the country so now that the foreign troops are leaving i think that the taliban have even less incentive to talks i don't think that it's possible to reconcile with the core ideological leadership of the taliban but it is possible to integrate a large number of the foot soldiers and also the mid-level commanders who are fighting in afghanistan by offering them political and financial incentives but that only happens when they are convinced that the current system in afghanistan is sustainable and the world community that is committed to i think you didn't you just hear what you just gave an argument to withdraw even earlier didn't you. no i did it i said that the world community should remain committed to afghanistan and

that with convinced portions of the taliban that they will not win militarily and then when they come to the table i think that the president obama is. setting timelines really and they're kept a military and political mission in afghanistan because that gave the taliban an incentive that to just wait out there for in chips and not counted a table and continue fighting and it also these deadlines persuaded countries like pakistan to kenya continue support for its proxies like the taliban rather than to bring it on table and only a long term committed commitment from the international community can change those calculations michael in washington where do you come out on this. but i think i think there is two levels of activity that are that are emerging number one the taliban just has to wait it out but number two it's going to mean that pakistan is going to try to assert its influence through the taliban and basically take over meantime you have india coming in that is going to try and provide security

services but also now the chinese have offered to train afghan forces security forces so it's basically becoming much more of a regional effort with the united states receding but staying on the on the periphery because afghanistan for the united states is strategically important to be iran and also toward containment of china so that the united states is going to want to let the regional powers basically come in and do their thing they will probably moderate the taliban somewhat because of that interactivity but ultimately the united states is going to think about working alternately with what emerges from this from the chaos that we're seeing right now mike in beirut when you think about that it's just going to get worse and worse and worse so why should the west stay there. when indeed what we shouldn't i mean i agree with agnes point that the

west is basically it's a bankrupt check in negotiations now with the taliban because it's already said it's leaving in two years so as i said before what do you say is your west negotiator sitting face to face the taliban would you say stop killing more troops or leave in two years it is a conscious make no sense in that sense that any right. i do i think what we're looking at leaving behind in twenty fourteen in afghanistan is not a can so what we we actually arrived to try to stamp out we're going to leave a country the size of going to be divided between the taliban and local warlords and what's left of the administration of karzai or very worst a country that's really in the throes of civil war. yeah i think the west has a problem but it hasn't iraq i mean i think the room we left really votes have between our legs saying everything would be fine it was fine for the couple weeks for the coming months before we left because we negotiated peace well they'll do that briefly the taliban i'm sure and then when they leave what happens next michael did you want to jump in in washington yeah yeah i don't think i don't think

ultimately the situation in afghanistan is going to is going to get into a an all out civil war because the regional powers in that area it's to their benefit that it meant that that not happen they cannot have that instability in that region that's why you're going to see india and china and pakistan ultimately coming together to try to work this thing out and bring out something that they can live with without. becoming a total quagmire and civil war and i think that china is very concerned about it india is very concerned about it the united states is probably going to work through china and through india to assert its influence and try to. get the best outcome all discussions with taliban is basically ceased from from what i can gather and because of the united states recognizes that there's there's no new. goshi asian because of the because taliban feels that it has the upper hand and

it's holding on and it's continuing attacks along with the with what it's now doing to the i surf troops so i think that it's going to be realigned the united states is going to be relying more on working through its own proxies if you will india and china michael it with the scenario you just gave is a western military use of power in that scenario that you gave. i think more of intelligence more. arms per se probably equipment to help train probably working through the indians and and coordinating in somewhat with the chinese i think that for the united states. afghanistan is going to be important whether it will actually have a physical presence in afghanistan remains to be seen but i think there will be some contingent of u.s. presence in afghanistan but not to the point that we see right now only because you're going to still probably have some drug drones flying around every once in

a while and things of that sort were good at that i mean what do you think about that scenario that something ready to go right ahead please. i don't agree with my michael that the united states should rely on neighboring countries of afghanistan post two thousand and fourteen i don't think that china or india is willing to fill the military vacuum which of the left by the end is that united states they don't have the ability and capabilities of doing that yeah we have seen the chinese interest in afghanistan but that has mostly been economic and so has been india's yes iran and pakistan can play a very crucial role post a thousand and fourteen but and far she has data packets any interest in afghanistan is at cross-purpose when it counts thirty years interests that are x. that well as i watched the taliban. go ahead michael john i'm not suggesting they're going to say i'm not going to i'm not suggesting they can send troops and they will send trainers in to work with the existing with with what they have right

now and then incorporate perhaps the taliban into the afghan security forces whether it's a police order or a situation that means as volatile and as bad as it is now and if it's even deteriorates in future i don't think that the advisers alone whatever that would be from the united states are from neighboring countries like china or india can can't carry out their mission properly might well it's the same pattern is that the route let's go to beirut go ahead mike so i was just i would actually agree with me there and add another and that pakistan is an eternal problems on his own without having to deal with problems in afghanistan as well so i mean i think a scenario of the regional powers stepping in to fill a vacuum in any sense is is really optimistic in many ways you know and we've created a problem here you know we want to solve we probably solve it partly we haven't solved it entirely we create another set of problems that can be very very difficult to deal with in two years the difficult enough to deal with now frankly

ok so i don't see the reason why i was suddenly applying applying a bomb to all this michael in washington july. i think i did in my story and i could stand for michael in washington going. you know i think that i think it's to the pakistani interest to try to bring a little stability to the region after all they regard afghanistan as their historical area of influence and so i think it's going to be to their their betterment and to to to work with china with whom they have very close relations by the way to try and bring some kind of stability to afghanistan it may not be the picture that the united states likes but it's going to be something that the regional powers can live with alternately go ahead. i think that the outcome in afghanistan is also important for stability of pakistan if the taliban count's back to afghanistan and topple the kabul regime i think that will also be although i saw it on your article. are there they don't come back there are there.

the taliban in pakistan or in afghanistan and afghanistan the taliban are geographically constrained just to parts of eastern and southern afghanistan flowing out of a very very real their influence is very real and all a small parcels they can create they don't have significant military presence they don't have a hole there in the area or they ran the years in the so failed they have failed to regain their lost territories that they lost during the surge of troops in this out ok might give me an optimistic scenario last forty seconds. think the optimistic scenario is the one that and earlier which is the division between basically a couple taliban controlled areas which is most of the rest of the country and those regions that are controlled by local warlords. i don't really see an optimistic act in the one that perhaps contains itself within the region. and how they can be policed but i don't think

a regional powers could do it but by the methods by good intelligence and things like that i think we made a mess of this we've gone in there we should've done the right thing we haven't we've lost and we're retreating that's the best scenario all right on that note gentlemen many thanks to my guest today in washington and in beirut and thanks to our viewers for watching us here see you next time remember cross talk. if you. want to. see the. science technology innovation all the developments around russia we've got the future covered. by horse.

by tractor. by car for the road. as a carpenter. as a stove setter. a farmer. as an assistant. as a friend. as a relative. delivering post delivering. never profit from. coming. in.

right now. shells become income. a piece of art is still. very. good laboratory. to build a. mission to teach me. only. a mission. cretaceous free free.