let. me. good afternoon welcome to capital account i'm lauren lyster here in washington d.c. these are your headlines for october seventeenth two thousand and twelve last night was the latest debate between the two main contenders for u.s. president and what were some of the economic grand plans we heard about. day one i will label china a currency manipulator the way we're going to create jobs here is not just to change our tax code but also to double our exports. ok so increase exports to whom exactly the eurozone the u.s. is largest trading partner is contracting and major emerging markets are slowing

down and starting a trade war with china mr romney really the largest foreign customer for u.s. dead where if the economy headed if this is the best politicians can come up with that is if you even believe carry out these plans is possible and among likely us voters the economy ranks as the most important and government ethics and corruption ranks second after that so we're always top of the bed last night where were the too big to fail banks and crony capitalism i could go on but we'll talk about what major economic issues tied in with corruption have been missing from the debate later in the show plus we hear about likely voters but what about the non voter class in the us some people that are disillusioned by the lack of choice when it comes to the candidates pandering to entrenched business and financial interests happens on both sides so we'll hear from joel bomani daily reckoning managing editor on what nonvoters can do and why he thinks more and narco capitalists like

himself are coming out of the woodworks let's get to today's capital account. last night obama and romney faced off in a debate that would likely remind many non voters many of whom i know watch this show or are sometimes on this show why they don't vote or if they do vote why they don't feel like there is a candidate for them looking at what likely voters care about most according to a recent rasmussen poll the economy remains by far the top issue on voters' minds on a list of the top ten issues that they regularly survey and i'd also like to point out that government corruption is second along with health care government

corruption ranks second with likely voters in terms of importance never mind the nonvoters so where was the discussion last night of of lobbying of special interests of corporate welfare of the favorable treatment for connected too big to fail firms on wall street that have their important business codified by dodd frank under obama and are likely to see an even a lighter touch by romney what about the serious conversation of slicing into the sacred cow of military spending and the major firms that benefit from it what about a more fair tax system discussion not one that benefits connected special interests well perhaps we didn't hear about it because when it comes to these issues the candidates are really not very different obama me and roe bamma is how our guest puts it i spoke to joel bowman from argentina he's managing editor for the daily reckoning and i asked him what areas specifically he sees these candidates as the same and more importantly perhaps why he feels this is the case. we're going to get

is the first thing to point out is that we have to remember that the. individuals whether they're. whatever the. true distinction between them they're essentially from a certain class. so i think essentially one. we're saying it is typical or would have been disqualified a long time ago in any racist where honesty and wisdom it was was measured in anyway so. aside from that i have as we noted. virtually the same paymasters you brought up the military wall street the fed and these guys are more or less toeing the line for people that don't appear on debate night you know with . you know with a nice applauding audience and such are these are people that are better off to the side and and who the public really don't get to see very much except. in the

expression of the actions that the mr o'neill mr obama mentioned tag when i mean when you say paid to lie you mean because of special interests that are putting their campaign. absolutely. i mean i think if you have a look back at the platforms on which recent presidents ran or if you want to go back a little further you can see that there's a vast distinction between what. these presidents were saying during campaign season and when they were out on the road drumming up support for their party and what they actually do while they're in office so it's probably the most obvious example would be a church which is running on a platform of nation building back in the two thousand election and we spent more or less the entirety of his subsequent presidency. embroiled in a couple of wars. and other covert missions abroad so

this there was a shoot just. discontinuity between the rhetoric create election and what we actually saw come into action so you know it's not to suggest some popcorn and have a lot of these guys when you know when they're going about this sort of script to tos and for years. on mainstream television but the actual reality on the ground is very very different from what these guys say and then just a dovetail on your bush example obama just picked up the mantle quite nicely too i mean so much of what he promised did not he didn't follow through with when he was elected and to use wars i mean he campaigned on ending wars he got us into more of them but i want to talk about degrees that if these represent the same choices the same paymasters are we seeing that anti keep getting them to give an example you have wall street last time around they were spending more on obama's campaign this time around they've thrown their weight in cash behind romney to a far greater extent so does this just enable wall street to just keep raising the

bar in terms of the support from the administration within the white house. right absolutely i mean you know wall street are doing exactly what you'd expect wall street to do and they're hedging their bets. i think it's probably wants to be political candidates. as estimates for wall street i mean we often talk in the daily reckoning about the tunnel being a dog directly from d.c. to to run it is wall street very convenient or probably now more determined happened but it's absolutely no question that there is a very very symbiotic relationship between these two. between these two situations it's two entities and you and i and i realize i just kind of made an assumption that wall street assumes are romney will be elected we have no idea what will end up happening but both have shown that they're not really willing to take on wall street i mean dodd frank kind of codified the status quo for the too big to fail firms and you've written about

a nonvoter class in your writing and i'm wondering how much of it you think is a result of the issues we're talking about that the politicians doing betting a special interests and the impact that that's had on people's lives or their feeling that they're represented by anybody in washington. absolutely you know that's that's a great point and i think what we're seeing right now with the advent of the internet and new communication technologies and the dissemination of information really at warp speed around the world is a kind of i guess kind of a good moment for our for our time for our generation where you know you can go into the internet anytime one day and any millions of people are posting already posting stories about about drone attacks in pakistan for example for to take one example or. being arrested for holding. slightly less than mainstream powerful views in seattle right now so so really i think the public are

are becoming more aware. if you know this kind of canned response. charade of a summit that the quality center parading around didn't and i think what will happen is that they're eventually get me get fed up with these attacks on their integrity basically and they're realizing that this is little more than our own then the circus. and i think they're they're going to get fed up and we're going to see some real heat on the street i think so so you think that social unrest is going to be the outpouring it sounds like what do you think will be or should be the response from non-voting class in terms of what they did you want to election day do you think that they should not vote for example. i think if you have i think if you have anything else on your agenda on election day. maybe barring and emergency appendectomy or something then you should absolutely staying

home from. your from should choose any anything else i mean take to take a loved one out to dinner leave a generous tip. do something useful but as far as going to. to validate the process by which a majority of people get to boss around. a minority of people simply because they have a larger vested interest in it one of the other candidate is is i think that's the moral and it's you know the whole argument of world you know we need to choose the lesser of two evils but i would only advise that people don't be party to evil at all recognize it for what it is and sort of more attention to the good work that is being done in the private sector rather than what's being done at the taxpayers' expense in the public sector and often as we discussed earlier not

without. or not with the expressed permission of the go to class ok so if your view is to not vote and that your time is better spent and your money and your has everything taken your girlfriend or boyfriend out to dinner rather than going to the polls then what do you think is an effective way to try and enact change or try to have the kind of liberties or our treatment or life that you want do you think it's trying to change this system do you think it's protests in the streets that you suggested may happen do you think it's going to argentina be an ex-pat what do you think jafo. well i mean big down here and you know this is an even more flagrant example of. governmental oppression in many many ways. so you know i would not advocate so we would i would never take any of the system down here but becoming sort of having some kind of

a permanent tourist arrangement works for some people but you know obviously that's a bit fringe and that's not for everyone i would think that it might be worthwhile encouraging people to concentrate their efforts and their time on democracies that that matter the democracy of information for example we see huge examples of this on the internet in particular with peer to peer lending which i learned of this in the daily reckoning before money lending that is there's also peer to peer rentals there's peer to peer cryptocurrency is coming out of there are a peer to peer entertainment feeds. you know people are doing a lot of really really cool things that don't have you know a stuffed suit on a stage you know you piano you know about going to you know cut this tremendous percentage off of. you know projected spending or you know whatever they're there

are control group goals taught them where they would play very well if you want to and so there's this there's a vast array of things that you can do for yourself and in the private sector between voluntary. individuals rather and get leave all that riff raff alone it's not it's not worthy of decent people. more on that and goldblum an anarcho capitalist philosophy animal many managing editor for the daily reckoning also still ahead there are lots of people are picking apart elements from last night's presidential debate but in tonight's loose change we will discuss what economic or not discussed pretty much all of them and argue stating that first. closing market numbers.

and. the battle. over. here is mitt romney trying to figure out the name of that thing that many americans call a dollar. i'm sorry i missed the guy who cares an awful lot of money you sir are a fool you know what that is my self but i don't want us to defeat terrorism the only ball that chris. can secure building out of. you

know the corporate media distracts us from what you and i should care about because there are profit driven industry that sells us sensationalistic garbage because of breaking news i'm having martin and we're going to break the set of. the books. so the conversation about elections is often framed in terms of voters what drives them what they care about what they can hope for depending on who they elect but let's talk more about the nonvoters ok here's a look at voter turnout in presidential elections it was just up of fifty five or

sixty percent in two thousand and eight depending on whether you're looking at voting age folks or those of the voting age folks that are actually eligible to vote and that was the highest turnout since the sixty's or seventy's depending on which numbers you look at but that still leaves a hefty portion of the population that is not voting and some like our guests are our guests are and are capitalists and he was talking before the break about some tactics involving the democratization of currencies of information that kind of enable people to live the life they want regardless of the who is in the white house we talked a little more about anarchy and also the role of the internet in the things he's talking about take a look. i mean i think the first thing too. that disappears viewers of perhaps some of us is is this notion of anarchy being you know some molotov cocktail hurling. you know kids that are that are aggressive against other

half are individuals this you know that is this is one of those terms has been hijacked by the mainstream media in service of the states and it's what anarchy really means i think this is it that it's been made the point to be made before but it's important to point out is simply from the greek and marcos which means and without a leader arco so it really just means without rule freedom to contract with whomsoever you wish and free to engage in enterprises that are perceived by both voluntary bodies as mutually beneficial so i do think with that being said the internet is an enormously useful tool in this but that's not to say that's so the local grassroots movements which we are seeing around the united states and abroad. you know just getting together with with people to start businesses i read and there was a comment recently from one of the candidates for bobby or of american men who was

about. to write it. garaged carriage start ups or start up businesses that have it it derived well i mean that's exactly the kind of you that somebody that is beholden to regulation would have isn't it but it is not so we can do it there and in the private space that's a good thing so i'm curious because i don't know if it's just perception but it seems that i read and hear more is it's a part of an iraqi fran people like yourself there and people that write about finance and the economy. but having out of the woodwork coming out of work i'm wondering if you think that these views have become more appealing in recent times because of how poorly the government now functions we have sixteen trillion dollars of debt in the united states held by the government dead they don't really have any political will to come to an agreement on how to deal with that as just one of

a myriad of examples like again. yes absolutely absolutely i mentioned a good and very moment around generation earlier but you know i was reading on it sort of this really random internet the other day doing some research and it's amazing the amount of of younger people that are courting lysander spooner or or you know some of the some of the great leaders of the and are capitalists because i guess sort of their cause for liberty this is information that really was sort of stuffed into very academic sectors of society in the past and it's now entirely accessible for curious younger minds who are really just fed up with with the allusion of choice that they're offered in the public sphere you know these are people lots and lots of young disenchanted by this for example when there were

a sicko this you know that caricature version of george bush which is it was in many ways correct it's kind of gun toting hake and they voted to hope to change the obama well you know because i came in on the spirit wings of a nobel peace prize and proceeded to drone the heck out of numerous countries in the middle east pakistan being most obvious of those but joining campaigns in the sudan joining campaigns in yemen i mean people who voted for this guy people who have. an obama bumper sticker next to a peace sign on their. you know on their energy saving car immediately turning around and say well hang on a second. you know this is there is some kind of it this very in congress and you know the looking today there must be a better alternative and that's where i think people are coming to. very very

deep distrust with the choices that they're given the false limit that they've given and then look you want to alternative political theories which i think is very encouraging and you get more of a framework with which to view political theory into kind of like move the discourse forward or do you see it being an actual governing political philosophy. self governing. certainly but as far as. it would be oxymoronic to think for example that there would be. an archaic capitalist. political candidate standing up on stage next next to these guys that have better things to do with or with their time. and as you said these ideas are ones confined to academia but now they are out there they are accessible they're on capital account that was joel bowman with that interview he's managing editor of the daily reckoning.

well sort of a loose change what do you say dimitri katrina looking forward to a long list or as am i right so you know the saying dimitri there are two things you can be sure of in life death and taxes well maybe in the presidential debates this time around you can be sure of talk of deficit and taxes because those are pretty much top on the short list of economic issues discussed some jobs plenty of china blaming but so much that matters most in our view wasn't touched or wasn't discussed seriously or honestly to get us into that is mitt romney let's hear him talk about what he proposes for getting rid of capital gains for what he considers a middle class. if you're getting interest from a bank if you're getting

a statement from a mutual fund or any of the kind of investments you have you don't have to worry about filing taxes on that because the be no taxes for anybody making two hundred thousand dollars a year and less on your interest dividends and capital gains. there will be no taxes but there will also be no interest payments on your savings account more or less we have zero percent interest rates and that brings me to the federal reserve which wasn't touched i don't think at all last night that he actually said. to your savings won't be taxed and i just thought that's so ridiculous and even if you didn't say that explicitly which i think you did i think he still took from it. like it's still it's implied and. of course the most important thing as you said is the photo of federal reserve and the rate of interest if there's no interest if you can have an interest bearing account with the prison make if you don't have to pay taxes on it you're not going to have any savings and in point of fact the biggest detriment to them if they were talking about the middle class the whole my yeah

what's the number one thing that's most important for the middle class question that to be able to say it was of course of the need to make money but if they make money and they can't say that's not capitalism you can't have capitalism and not have savings it's not possible otherwise there's a feudalism which is just to give credits on the plantation to your workers right where they can come back every day for a coke and pepsi and maybe some i don't know some food or something right and i also think what's really disingenuous is the way that he talks about cutting the capital gains tax interesting come taxes zero for what he calls the middle class because really how much does that affect the middle class and i feel like this is just cover for him to keep capital gains right where they are for the high income earners as opposed to a discussion about a more equitable fair tax system because if you make your money as a doctor in a more traditional way make you can make much more money but you'll be taxed a lot more compared to if you're an investor and you're not on capital gang that's . eighty percent running and singing about this whole thing i'm not i'm up for

raising taxes in general i mean there is there is an issue of the deficits and what you get to do it properly address that but in general i'm not for raising taxes i don't believe in giving money to kleptocrats i think that would be better off you know having basic services but that aside the what people like romney that's where there's this whole one percent versus ninety nine percent is a false dichotomy this rich versus poor people identifying is how much money you make it makes you rich it's not like that it's how you make your money and also are you on the regressive line of the taxation pool and what are you warren buffet or are you are you able to pay less taxes and then some guy that makes vastly less money than you now how is that how can that's once again you putting a dynamic in place fame amount of money as you but in a different way right and you create there and that's that and that's one argument that we have or i have often with some other people that want to have redistribution mechanisms clunky why do you want to have taxation then

redistribution a crappy way especially through a highly inefficient government that has all sorts of crony capitalism and problems going on the meter i just want you there for one second because i want to move on to obama to be fair here because there are disasters on both sides so let's listen to what obama talks about in terms of what is going to generate growth. i think what grows the economy is when you get that tax credit that we put in place for your kids going to college i think that grows the economy i think what grows the economy is when we make sure small businesses are getting a tax credit for hiring veterans who fought for our country that grows our economy . dimitri is that is that a good growth plan for the economy you know what broke obama so is going to judge this point no i mean obviously the circa one doesn't grow the economy clearly giving tax breaks to veterans i don't see how that grows the economy at all and so those are going to hire that employee over a different employee i'm not saying it's bad but i'm just saying that doesn't incentivize them to create jobs that i think change the environment that would make

that and the time to have some central planning president or several but whoever pushing buttons and giving such subsidies a stimulus was the better of this battery maker yes they went bankrupt they want to give two hundred fifty million dollars to i mean you get two hundred fifty million dollars to cover this bankrupt if you are if you were in the private side the market to make. it so you know when he was criticizing mitt romney for you know and with a lot of girls so let's just show the audience our top five list of the top five economic issues that were missing last night the federal reserve we touched on too big to fail banks should be pretty explanatory i mean we need a healthy banking system for a healthy economy too big to fail is arguably not very healthy regulatory enforcement and punishment ok there are regulations on the books they are not being enforced so much talk of dodd frank or obamacare but what about enforcing regulations not just having them tax fairness versus rates we just mentioned and was honest discussion about hacking into military spending so much and i'm very happy ending as i cannot even really tell chance imperiled the climb to going straight down all right read above or home read of our own because that's all we

have time for thanks so much for watching make sure to come back tomorrow and in the meantime you know you can follow me on twitter like us on our facebook page watch us on you tube or on hulu and have a great night. it's . says.

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