would likely remind many nonvoters many of whom i know watch the show or are sometimes on this show why they don't vote or if they do vote why they don't feel like there is a candidate for them looking at what likely voters care about most according to a recent rasmussen poll the economy remains by far the top issue on voters' minds on a list of the top ten issues that they regularly survey and i'd also like to point out that government corruption is second along with health care government corruption ranks second with likely voters in terms of importance never mind the nonvoters so where was the discussion last night of of lobbying of special interests of corporate welfare of the favorable treatment for connected too big to fail firms on wall street that had their important business prada fired by dodd frank under obama and are likely to see an even a lighter touch by romney what about the serious conversation of slicing into the sacred cow of military spending and the major firms that benefit from it what about

a more fair tax system discussion not one that benefits connected special interests well perhaps we didn't hear about it because when it comes to these issues the candidates are really not very different obama me and roe bamma is how our guest puts it i spoke to joel bowman from argentina he's managing editor for the daily reckoning and i asked him what areas specifically he sees these candidates as the same and more importantly perhaps why he feels this is the case. we're going to get is the first thing to point out is that we have to remember that these individuals whether they're elephants. whatever the. true distinctions between them they're essentially from the same class. so i think essentially what we're seeing. the people who would have been disqualified a long time. you know in any race where honesty and wisdom it was was measured in

any way so. aside from that i have as we noted. virtually the same paymasters you brought up the military wall street the bed and these guys are more or less toeing the line for people that don't live here under a night you know with. you know with a nice applauding audience and such are these are people that are better off to the side and and who the public really don't get to see very much except. in the expression of the actions that mr romeo mr obama eventually take when i mean when you say paid to lie you mean because of special interests that are fighting their campaign. absolutely. i mean i think if if you have a look back at the platforms on which recent president scran or indeed if you want to go back a little further you can see that there's a bus distinction between what. these presidents were saying during the campaign

season and when they were out on the road drumming up support for their party and what they actually did while they're in office so it's probably the most obvious example would be a church which is running on a platform of nation building back in the two thousand election and we spent more or less the entirety of his subsequent presidency. embroiled in a couple of wars. and other covert missions abroad so this there was a shoot this. discontinuity between the rhetoric create election and what we actually saw commit to action so you know it's not it's a difference of popcorn and have a lot of these guys when you know when they're going about this sort of scripted to sit for hours. on mainstream television but the actual reality on the ground is very very different from what these guys say and then just a dovetail on your bush example obama just picked up the mantle quite nicely too i

mean so much of what he promised did not he didn't follow through with when he was elected and to use wars i mean he campaigned on ending wars that got us into more of them but i want to talk about degrees that if these represent the same choices the same paymasters. are we seeing that anti keep getting them to give an example you have wall street last time around they were spending more on obama's campaign this time around they've thrown their weight in cash behind romney to a far greater extent so does this just enable wall street to just keep raising the bar in terms of the support from the administration within the white house. right absolutely i mean you know wall street are doing exactly what you'd expect wall street to do and they're hedging their bets. i think it's probably wants to be political candidates. as best it's for wall street i mean we often talk in the daily reckoning about the tunnel big dog directly from d.c. to to run it is wall street urchin being it or probably now more determined

happened but it's absolutely no question that there is a very very symbiotic relationship between these two. between these two situations it's two entities and i realize i just kind of made an assumption that wall street assumes there are romney will be elected we have no idea what will end up happening but both have shown that they're not really willing to take on wall street i mean dodd frank kind of codified the status quo for the too big to fail firms and you've written about a nonvoter class in your writing and i'm wondering how much of it you think is a result of the issues we're talking about that the politicians doing betting a special interests and the impact that that's had on people's lives or their feeling that they're represented by anybody in washington. absolutely you know that's that's a great point and i think what we're seeing right now with the advent of the internet and new communication technologies and the dissemination of information really at warp speed around the world is a kind of i guess kind of

a good moment for our for our time for our generation where you know you can go into the internet any time one day and any millions of people are posting already posting stories about about drone attacks in pakistan for example for to take one example or. has been arrested for holding. slightly less than mainstream powerful views in seattle right now so really i think the public are are becoming more aware. of you know this kind of canned response. charade of a summit that the qualities of parading around didn't and i think what will happen is that they're eventually get me get fed up with these attacks on their integrity basically and they're realizing that this is little more than are in the circus. and i think they're they're going to get fed up and we're going to see some real

heat on the street i think so so you think that social unrest is going to be the outpouring it sounds like what do you think will be or should be the response from non-voting class in terms of what they did you want to election day do you think that they should not vote for example. i think if you have i think if you have anything else on your agenda on election day. maybe barring and emergency appendectomy or something then you should absolutely stand home from . from cheese and me anything else i mean take to take a loved one to dinner leave a generous tip. do something useful but as far as going to. to validate the process by which a majority of people get to boss around. a minority of people simply because they they have a larger vested interest in it one of the other candidate is is and i think that's

the moral and it's you know the whole argument of world you know we need to choose the lesser of two evils but i'm i would only advise that people don't be party to evil at all recognize it for what it is and sort of more attention to the good work that is being done in the private sector rather than what's being done at the taxpayers' expense in the public sector and often it's going to certainly not without. or not with the expressed permission of the voter class ok so if your view is to not vote and that your time is better spent and your money and your has everything taking your girlfriend or boyfriend out to dinner rather than going to the polls then what do you think is an effective way to try and enact change or try to have the kind of liberties or treatment or life that you want do you think it's trying to change this system do you think it's protests

in the streets that you suggested may happen do you think it's going to argentina be an ex-pat what do you think jafo. well i mean big big down here and you know this is an even more flagrant example of. governmental oppression in many many ways . so you know i would not have a kate so only would i would never take any of the system down here but becoming sort of having some kind of a common interest arrangement works for some people but you know obviously that's a different in that's not for everyone i would think that it might be worthwhile encouraging people to concentrate their efforts and their time on to more who sees that that matter the democracy of information for example we see a huge examples of this on the internet in particular with peer to peer lending which i learned of this in the daily reckoning before many many many is also peer

to peer rentals there's peer to peer cryptocurrency is coming out there are peer to peer entertainment feeds. you know people are doing a lot of really really cool things that don't have you know a stuffed suit on a stage you know you piano you know about getting you know cut this trim this percentage off of. you know projected spending or you know whatever there there are control group goals taught them where they would play very well with the audience so there's this there's a vast array of things that you can involve yourself in and in the private sector between voluntary. individuals rather and given leave all that riff raff alone it's not it's not worthy of decent people. who are not in and goldblum an anarcho capitalist philosophy animal many of managing editor for the daily reckoning also still ahead sure lots of people are picking apart elements from last night's

presidential debate but in tonight's loose change we will discuss what economic or not discussed pretty much all of them and argue stating that first. clothing market numbers. evening. to. see.

what will change when america picks its president amid muslim rage walking the tightrope pushing china and russia as occupy anger spreads the two parties still dictate will their. close election come close guy every monday from our team beginning a solar twenty second. plug .

was the strangest attempt of a military takeover of. the us president trying to overthrow a foreign country's government. strategic games. and america recognized its defeat. if cuba managed to cope with its victory. may i leave you think you are you go but the rajab live in the cuban missile crisis games and reality. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something

else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture. so the conversation about elections is often framed in terms of voters what drives them what they care about what they can hope for depending on who they elect but let's talk more about the nonvoters ok here's

a look at voter turnout in presidential elections it was just up of fifty five or sixty percent in two thousand and eight depending on whether you're looking at voting age folks or those of the voting age folks that are actually eligible to vote and that was the highest turnout since the sixty's or seventy's depending on which numbers you look at but that still leaves a hefty portion of the population that is not voting and some like our guests are our guests are and are capitalists and he was talking before the break about some tactics involving the democratization of currencies of information that kind of enable people to live the life they want regardless of who is in the white house we talked a little more about anarky and also the role of the internet in the things he's talking about take a look. i mean i think the first thing to. disabuse viewers of perhaps some of us is is this notion of anarchy being you know some

molotov cocktail hurling. you know kids that are that are aggressive against other individuals this you know that is this is one of those terms has been hijacked by the mainstream media in service of the states and it's what anarchy really means i think this is it that it's been rather point to be made before but it's important to point it out is simply from the greed and arcos which means and without leader arko so it really just means without rule freedom to contract with him so if you wish. to engage in enterprises that are perceived by both voluntary what he says mutually beneficial and so i do think with that being said that the internet is an enormously useful tool in this but that's not to say that sort of local grassroots movements which we are seeing around the united states and abroad. you know just getting together with with able to start

businesses i mean and then it was a comment recently from one of the candidates for a bombing or of i'm not terminal was about. to write it. garaged carriage start ups or start up businesses that have it derived well i mean that's exactly the kind of you that somebody that is beholden to regulation would have it isn't it but it is not so we can do there in private space that's a good thing so i'm curious because i don't know if it's just perception but it seems that i read and hear more is it's a part of an iraqi fran people like yourself there and people that write about finance and only economy. but coming out of the woodwork yeah coming out of work i wondering if you think that these views have become more appealing in recent times because of how poorly the government now functions we have sixteen trillion dollars

of debt in the united states held by the government dead they don't really have any political will to come to an agreement on how to deal with that as just one of a myriad of examples like a give. yes absolutely absolutely i mentioned a good and very moment tragedy aeration earlier but you know i was reading and sort of this really ran to the internet the other day to some research and it's amazing the amount of of younger people that are according lysander spooner or very rough bud or you know some of the some of the great leaders are and are capitalists because i guess sort of their cause for liberty this is information really was sort of stuffed into very academic sectors of society in the past and it's now entirely accessible for curious younger minds who are really just fed up with with the allusion of choice that they're offered in the public sphere you know these are

people lots and lots of young disenchanted by this for example when there were a sicko this you know the caricature version of george bush which is was in many ways correct this kind of gun toting headache and they voted to hope to change the obama well you know dick i came in on the spirit wings of a nobel peace prize and proceeded to drone the heck out of numerous countries in the middle east pakistan being the most obvious of those but drowning campaigns in the sudan dragging him pains in yemen i mean people who voted for this guy people who have. an obama bumper sticker next to a peace sign on their. you know on their energy saving car immediately turning around and saying well hang on a second. you know this is there is some kind of it this very in congress and

you know they're looking to do there must be a better alternative and that's where i think people are coming to. very very deep distrust with the choices that they're given the false limited they've given and look you want to alternative political theories which i think is very encouraging and you get more of a framework with which to view political theory into kind of like move the discourse forward or do you see it being an actual governing political philosophy. self governing. certainly but as far as. it would be oxymoronic to think for example that there would be and are and are very capitalist. political candidates standing up on stage and it's next to these guys that have better things to do with or with their time. and as he said these ideas are once confined to academia but now they are out there they are accessible they're on capital account that was joel bowman with that interview is managing editor of the daily reckoning.

well sort of a loose change what you say to me trick i mean i don't look forward to a long list or as am i right so you know the saying dimitri there are two things you can be sure of in life death and taxes well maybe in the presidential debates this time around you can be sure of talk of deficit and taxes because those are pretty much top on the short list of economic issues discussed some jobs plenty of china blaming but so much that matters most in our view wasn't touched or wasn't discussed seriously or honestly to get us into that is mitt romney let's hear him talk about what he proposes for getting rid of capital gains for what he considers

a middle class. if you're getting interest from a bank if you're getting a statement from a mutual fund or any of the kind of investments you have you don't to worry about filing taxes on that because the be no taxes for anybody making two hundred thousand dollars a year and less on your interest dividends and capital gains. there will be no taxes but there will also be no interest payments on your savings account more or less we have zero percent interest rates and that brings me to the federal reserve which wasn't touched i don't think at all last night that he actually said. your savings won't be taxed and i just thought that's so ridiculous and even if you didn't say that explicitly which i think you did i think he still took from it. like it's still it's implied and part of what of course the most important thing as you said is the thought of federal reserve and the rate of interest if there's no interest if you can have an interest bearing account with the prison make if you don't have to pay taxes on it you're not going to have any savings and in point of

fact the biggest detriment to them if they were talking about the middle class the whole my yeah what's the number one thing that's most important for the middle class question that they would be able to say well it was not a course of the make money but if they make money and they can't say that's not capitalism you can have capitalism and not have savings it's not possible other otherwise there's a feudal ism which is just to give credits on the plantation to your workers right where they can come back every day for a coke and pepsi and maybe some i don't know some food or something right and i also think what's really disingenuous is the way that he talks about cutting the capital gains tax interesting come taxes zero for what he calls the middle class because really how much does that affect the middle class and i feel like this is just cover for him to keep capital gains right where they are for the high income earners as opposed to a discussion about a more equitable fair tax system because if you make your money as a doctor in a more traditional way make you can make much more money but you'll be taxed a lot more compared to if you're an investor and you're not on capital gang that's

. eighty percent i'm going to see in about this whole thing i'm not i'm up for raising taxes in general i mean there is there is an issue of the deficits and what you have to do it properly address that but in general i'm not for raising taxes i don't believe in giving money to kleptocrats i'm not for it i think that we'd be better off you know having basic services but that aside the what people like romney that's where there's this whole one percent versus ninety nine percent is a false dichotomy this rich versus poor people identifying is how much money you make it makes you rich it's not like that it's how you make your money and yet also are you on the regressive line of the taxation pool who are you warren buffet or are you are you able to pay less taxes and then some guy that makes vastly less money than you now how is that how can that's once again you putting a dynamic in place fam amount of money is you but in a different way right and you're clearly there and that's the and that's one argument that we have or i have often with some other people that want to have

redistribution mechanisms. why do you want to have taxation then redistribution a crappy way especially through a highly inefficient government that has all sorts of crony capitalism and problems going on dimitry i just want to hold you there for one second because i want to move on to obama to be fair here because there were disasters on both sides so let's listen to what obama talks about in terms of what is going to generate growth . i think what grows the economy is when you get that tax credit that we put in place for your kids going to college i think that grows the economy i think what grows the economy is when we make sure small businesses are getting a tax credit for hiring veterans who fought for our country that grows our economy . dimitri is that is that a good growth plan for the economy you know what broke obama so. we're going to judge this point no i mean obviously the second one doesn't grow the economy clearly giving tax breaks to veterans i don't see how that grows the economy at all and so those are going to hire that employee over a different employee i'm not saying it's bad but i'm just saying that doesn't

incentivize them to create jobs that don't change the environment that would make that and the time to have some central planning president who are pushing buttons and giving such subsidies or stimulus was the better of this battery maker yes they went bankrupt they want to give two hundred fifty million dollars to i mean you get two hundred fifty million dollars to cover this bankrupt if you are if you were in the private side the market to me. when he was criticizing mitt romney for you know and with a lot of girls so let's just show the audience our top five list of the top five economic issues that were missing last night the federal reserve we touched on too big to fail banks should be pretty explanatory i mean we need a healthy banking system for a healthy economy too big to fail is arguably not very healthy regulatory enforcement and punishment ok there are regulations on the books they are not being enforced so much talk of dodd frank or obamacare but what about enforcing regulations not just having them tax fairness versus rates we just mentioned and on this discussion about hacking into military spending so much on the kerry banning

as like not even really tell chance imperiled the climbs are going straight down all right read about her home read of our own cause that's all we have time for thanks so much for watching make sure to come back tomorrow and in the meantime you know you can follow me on twitter like us on our facebook page watch us on you tube or on hulu and have a great night. download . the creation. choose your life stream quality. and enjoy your favorites from alzheimer's now a t.v. is not required to watch artsy all you need is your mobile device to watch r.t. any time.

gold fever. turns thousands into slaves. much but also among others involved in the monsoon and since i started working at the moment i stayed. multi-nationals. cash cow to be milked dry i think that in this country metallurgy has an environmental cost which is an accepted local business was labeled illegal and controlled by criminals you know in order to protect our lives our families and to work in peace.