markets why not canada. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max keiser for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to kaiser report. i'm sam sacks in washington d.c. filling in for tom hartman who is in chicago tonight for the third party presidential debate is going to air right here on r.t. after the show but first here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture. you name the war and obama in romney agree on it looking at american history we shouldn't have expected anything different in last night's foreign policy showdown a full recap coming up of the debate or non debate in florida monday night and new

reports out suggest there's a fifty fifty shot ohio will determine the outcome of this election so if you're a republican it's time to head out to the buckeye state if you plan to steal it from mitt romney. monday night's debate you know maybe we're we'll watch mitt romney desperately try to create some sort of rhetorical differences between himself and president obama on our nation's foreign wars but ultimately we all learned that there are no real differences we all learn that both men are pretty much on board with what's going on in afghanistan and what's going on all around the middle east north africa and asia with our drone wars monday nights agreements sparked outrage on the far left in the far right with those who see the wars as atrocities and who are fed up with both democrats and republicans when it comes to military misadventure. but my

question is what else did we expect all throughout our nation's history war has never been a partisan issue american troops have been marched off to die warplanes deployed to drop bombs and tanks dispatched to shelled villages all with the approval of both major political parties and eight hundred forty six the mexican american war was approved with bipartisan support in congress and house voted one hundred seventy three to fourteen and eighty ninety eight the spanish-american war was approved with bipartisan support in the house of representatives with a vote of three ten to six a declaration of war against germany and world war one was approved in the house by a bipartisan vote of three hundred seventy three to fifty eight and more and austria-hungary was approved three hundred sixty five to one and then came world war two when war was declared on japan germany italy bulgaria hungary and romania with only one dissenting vote in the house of representatives congress approved the use of military force in vietnam in one nine hundred sixty four by

a bipartisan vote of four hundred ten to zero congress approved use of military force in afghanistan more than a decade ago in a bipartisan vote of four hundred twenty to one and in two thousand and three congress authorized the use of force in iraq and a bipartisan vote of two hundred ninety six to one hundred thirty three which was actually one of the most partisan war votes in our nation's history republican and democratic presidents have both presided over war and have both received bipartisan support for those wars. so really what else should we have expected last night when it comes to our latest wars other than total agreement which is what we got you see on the issue of war it's not a democratic or republican problem it's sound obama or romney problem it's an empire problem and empire and the endless bloody military engagements that accompany empire have been fully embraced by both political parties for quite

a long time one sole exception being george mcgovern's democratic campaign for president in one thousand nine hundred two which promised to end the war in vietnam . he got creamed this bipartisan embrace of empire exists despite the fact that both political parties must know full well that every single sovereign nation in the history of this planet that has pursued the course of empire be it the greeks the romans the ottomans the french the british you name it as eventually collapsed under its own weight under the weight of empire which brings us to another topic discussed in last night's debate the outsourcing of the collapsing american economy here's bob schieffer talking about the threat posed by the chinese economy. the scope of the next segment because it's a very important one it is the rise of china and future challenges for

america. and it's not just china it's developing nations all around the world that are buying up american industries thanks to corporate predators and free trade policies every single second four thousand dollars worth of american industry is sold off to a foreign investor every single second our economy is being deconstructed packed in a box put on a freighter and shipped overseas and nowhere is this massive selloff more evident than in freeport illinois there you'll find a factory belonging to some sort of technologies a company that manufactures parts for automobiles and airplanes and that factory has been more profitable than ever in recent years employing more than one hundred seventy americans you don't know member fifth just one day before the election it will close its doors for good and those more than one hundred seventy workers they'll be put out of a job those jobs will instead go to workers in china why well because the majority owner of sense out of technologies that is bain capital that the company that made

mitt romney rich and continues to make them rich decide it's more profitable for them if they sell off american jobs to china than if they keep those jobs in the community now i want you to think about this for a second this is going to be a really close election it will be decided in a handful of states like ohio among blue collar voters now if you were president obama and you know what's happening in freeport illinois of the sense out of plant which he does know about when you just beat romney over the head with it again and again and again especially when romney says stuff like this. will also make sure that we have trade relations with china that work for us i've watched year in and year out as companies have shut down and people have lost their jobs because china has not played by the same rules. yeah he has watched year in and year out and

why didn't the president just mention since saddam call romney out for being a predatory capitalism ships american jobs overseas you see romney is the face of the outsourcing of the american economy he made his living on it he made millions hundreds of millions of dollars shipping jobs out of our country and all the president has to do is just mention since saddam tell the story of since saddam exposed mitt romney over since saddam but the president didn't in fact he didn't mention since sata in three debates he had a trump card on romney and he could have played in all three debates and he chose not to and that's because he knows and romney knows that telling the story of since other means exposing what's really happening in america it means exposing the corporate elites agenda which is to pillage the last remaining wealth in the american middle class and then invest that wealth in new developing nations and new future empires that may take the corporate form to exist long after america's

decline patriotism in the good of the community and its workers mean nothing to this corporate elite nothing to mitt romney mitt romney is a member of this predatory class and brock obama has bought into this neo liberal free trade philosophy that will perpetuate the scheme until collapse plain and simple barack obama didn't mention insider for the same reason that mitt romney didn't mention the transpacific partnership which will also lead to the further destruction of the american economy they both know if they talk about these two issues then the mask of the corporatocracy slips off and the game is up. and that's the real take home message from last night's debate democrats have always been more presidents from f.d.r. to l.b.j. to barack obama but only recently leave this generation or so and they also been supporters of shipping american unionized manufacturing jobs to low wage foreign nations that is the real difference now for more on this and the rest of last

night's debate are in turn things over to our post debate panel deal mccabe is a senior reporter with human events online richard keller progressive strategist and host of the richard thaler show and marc harrold libertarian commentator attorney and author thank you guys for joining me welcome back all of you to the show so i ran over a few issues there was a really upbeat sermon is. really only the times right now exactly so i know and i want to share with you richard the center for american progress said today that mitt romney said twenty four lies in about forty minute one minutes of speaking time was mitt romney lying to make it look like he and obama agree on these issues are there substance you know substantial differences between the two of them that i'm not seeing that were covered by romney's allies or are they really the same here well i don't think what i would argue with that i think what we saw from mitt romney last night was a person that didn't understand foreign policy he just doesn't get it i mean a great example of that is when he made the arguing about syria being you know the key to iran's ports are its key seaport even though iran is not landlocked. but

beyond that point i think what we saw from robin was something like i'm really out of my league here i'm really not sure what's going on so the best bet is to hang on to the president and hope i won't upset undecided voters and moderates which is what i'm going for now and i won't upset women either but if you look at i was got a chance to see the debate the c.n.n. and i got to watch their dial testing and if you look at some of the doubters that when the president was talking about his foreign policy and the achievements that they've made in the past four years the dials it up a month undecided voters both men and women because they both understand that you need a strong competent commander in chief and that commander if you can only come from the president president obama over mitt romney i mean yeah. i mean i guess it's a fair point somebody the commander in chief obviously knows these issues more and and sounds more authoritative or intelligent talking about them but mark what do you make of of the debate last night in the you know in lockstep that mitt romney and obama are when it comes to drone war when it comes to pulling out about dana stand when it comes to you know dealing with iraq first of all i think it was

pretty boring debate if it's even a debate i think the real debates third party debate which is coming up on our t.v. after the show i guess but the bottom line here is if an undecided voters were looking for a reason or looking for a difference in the two candidates to make up their mind this debate didn't give it to them they're both interventionist they're both guys who are going to have our troops all over the place there they support all the bases that we have we're still in all these countries i don't think there are huge differences here i think the president did a good job which is of course you're going to which is to fall back on i've been the commander in chief and the war so you know you don't always want to make a change i didn't see much difference here and they didn't talk about the big war they should've which is the war on drugs i thought it was a snooze debate i think most people were flipping over to monday night football or the baseball game back to i beg to differ here and here's why mark the real there's a couple reasons i think what we saw from president obama last night was listen i understand i didn't get us into these wars george w. bush put his butt into both of these wars and i came these were already on my desk since taking office i've cleaned up one war i'm working on cleaning up the second

war and beyond that the number one f.b.i. enemy for the past twenty years is now dead i'm willing to move heaven and earth to protect the american people and i'm also willing to move heaven and earth to kill somebody who killed three thousand americans and i think that's the argument that resonated last night and that's the commander in chief think romney made a point that the way he ended the iraq war was bad and then he's completely jacked up the war in afghanistan just not true let's not try out first of all the really what we want into what george bush is the reason for going into iraq are questionable to begin with but in afghanistan we wanted to take out al qaeda and take up the taliban under president obama most of the taliban lieutenants and the internet or dead. the drone attacks and we're removing our troops do you think we're stronger now than we were in afghanistan i would argue that we're stronger now than we were four and then you have no problem leaving in two thousand and fourteen i have no problem having twenty four why is a little bit of the left you are wrong that why is it that american men should die to save afghanis what afghanis could be trained to save themselves because we don't want to become a base for terrorists the last time we left it alone that was the point before we

left afghanistan alone and it became a base for terrorists. we'll check on that and we've got ten seconds here we're going to take a break and we'll get back right right to this issue in just a second more of tonight's post-debate panel after the break. here is mitt romney trying to figure out the name of that thing that many americans call a dollar. i'm sorry i'm just a guy who cares an awful lot of money you sir are a fool you know what that is my terror cells in your neighborhood all want the usa to feature as a monkey on live from the crystal. consumers really going to the. you know the superman to distract us from what you and i should care about because they're profit driven industry that sells

a sensationalistic garbage he calls it breaking news i'm not me martin and we're going to break this that. this presidential election is not just about obama and romney there are also third party candidates on the ticket and they will influence its outcome see a debate among this nation's major third party candidates right here on our t.v. on october twenty third.

i will fight all the networks i also promised that i'd fight every single day in the memory. of my own father. then welcome back to our post debate panel on the panel tonight neil mccabe senior reporter with human events online richard fellow progressive strategist and host of the richard thaler show and marc harrold libertarian commentator attorney and author ok let's get back to you and i were just fighting over you know the nuance differences here between president obama and mitt romney when it comes to war but i want to i want to get something here the american people are increasingly against these wars. and at the same time both parties seem to be ramping up their support

for these wars have richard and have the democrats or republicans of misty huge opportunity in the last decade or so to be the party of no war in to collect huge benefits i mean holes i mean the reason it well i just it's a reboot. from where we were talking before you have to remember that in the two thousand and eight primaries romney was sort of the iraq skeptic of the republican candidates and even running against in this time around in the primaries he was the one who is the least aggressive. on his team now he's got all the same people who started these and i call him corporate wars because to me that's really what's going on here behind these wars so how can we trust him i mean or any of them for that matter to be to be someone who could end these wars or get us out of this decade i mean or end a war by winning it or you can't we're not going to win any of these wars you know mark are how do we when you know there's you know that i mean we've we've won wars before it can be done again we're not going to win a war because we're not at war we're in

a we're in this endless thing we were going over there here's the problem it's stopping defense it's the department of defense what's that do it defend this country we're into nation building my democratic congressman when i have expressed many times i won't name and said we need to get. out of this we need to get out of this not a year from now not when it's good now get out we're sixteen trillion in debt and we said we're going to get out look it's going to be chaos when we get out but that's a decision we have to make as a country but anyway i mean knowing it's going to be chaos is going to be chaos to be so let's just say what is now here's the thing some of the reasons that we're in in this is you know from my congressman. literacy rate in afghanistan the low national identity of the afghanis you get into nation building that's what we do that the president on this point is right with that we need to get back to building this nation we're too far in debt we'll never get out but i disagree with you richard a little bit look the president said hope and change we're going to get out when i take office one four years later i understand he got different information the idea when he took office his deal was we're getting out of the of course we should we shouldn't be talking about as we should and a whole three years ago whoa whoa hold on

a second first argument is none of us are in the situation room nobody knows what the briefings of the president are getting now that george bush or barack obama barack obama took office that i'm to do the best to get us out these wars and take our people out of harm's way when he went in that he created a plan he talked to the generals that we need to get a plan to take us out of these wars he took us out of one war he's getting ready to go that way all of the plan the generals wave one second everything that we saw last night in the debate for mitt romney is not only am i not going to get out of the war that we're already in but i think i think we should just bomb iran and there's exactly we heard from mitt romney last night you're going to take them to another war down because they are they're the ones who want to prop up the military complex in this country but rather want to have a two trillion dollar military build up when there is no act of their own right so on that on that issue here and i want to play a clip here from the debate from last night it was romney just attack the president over cuts to the defense department and this is what the president said. i think governor romney maybe has to spend enough time looking at how our military works you mentioned the navy for example and that we have fewer ships than we did in one

nine hundred sixty well governor we also have fewer horses and bayonets because the nature of our military has changed. ok so then there's a chart that's going to come up here in just a second that's going to because i think there are this is the one area where there is a pretty big difference between mitt romney and barack obama because two trillion dollars is a lot of money and that is what they plan to do with the defense department budget with the defense department's budget romney wants to increase it by two trillion dollars of the next decade the president basically wants to keep it at the status quo slightly increasing and there's the sequester ration in place which will cut it which the president said was i'm going to going to have to worry about why do we need two trillion dollars more in defense spending right now well i mean i know i haven't added up all the pencils but i'm just saying we need a strong military a strong military that we have now we need to do what we need to planes we need. to project power over to that so we reject all of our our our our air carriers currently don't project power the fact that many we don't hold out and we are you know worked at the fact that we have on man drones all across the world bombing

al-qaeda doesn't project power if you come back here we have the number one economy in the world and particularly where you can carry pretty groupers on are going to realize you can't carry paratroopers on a drone we don't want to carry paratroopers out how is you going to get them places we take the drone the drone leaves the aircraft carrier but like the president i say on the ground i think the problem i think that i don't know who we have to project power to i don't know is there is there a particular nation that we have that's not our to or are we trying to do so what do you do want to point out terrorists that are scattered around the border but i don't think are afraid of are describing governors are having i don't know where the threat might be coming from but that's the nature of the clear no i mean the nature of the military is it has to be on the shelf it's expensive there's a lot of equipment you have to have professionals who are trained i didn't i get that in a time in maybe nineteen twenty years nineteen thirty years we're going to have these massive militaries being sprung up all around the world but nowadays when especially when you guys are calling for austerity and trying to shred medicare or

anywhere else all they want all of them want to give two trillion dollars to the defense department well i mean it's just that. we need to play. we need new tankers. i'm going to know when you know we are where carriers only know we're in a new we need to know a gauge we're going to have and we're going to run towards cyber you don't have anything that isn't funny you know we need to maintain ten active duty divisions in the army where are you getting this from we're not fighting russia even though mitt romney things work with our number one so you don't know what you we're doing we're fighting a group fighting a guerrilla warfare style war here that's we're fighting terrorists terrorists unafraid of our military they came in at a level with regard to the fact that we have a large military how we fight them with intelligence with drone attack that was already you know i was going to you can't have done beating this on the ground has nothing to do we have to have grown we need more growers we don't need or want to ground whereas you have to what i hear on the air where we're going to defend what our last word on don't you understand on this there has to be on the show real quickly i have it ready to go on the show are you going to be ready to go there you

know what my name is here is that i was i disagree with richard a little bit this idea that we're not the situation room of course we're not in the situation room we're never going to know everything this is the problem with undeclared wars when this country's at war should be declared the way the constitution directs we don't need to know all the information but we should have spoken on this it seems to me that the election was a big time the american public war i would think it would or would like it was declared the way the constitution directed what i saw when i was like five wars having what moral house i have to live there's been a lot of mars in my life like you're not i remember declare you know that all it says in the constitution is that the house declares war yeah so if the house approves the budget there's a war yet so it should be doesn't to the constitution like war should be some sort of passively declare ok well everybody has usually asked well how to represent was yet you know it wasn't our you know bunch of our allies but the worry was it were not all the war was in the blood i don't know where and sort of took world war two the clutch but the constitution i want make this point the last point caressa to should does not say there has to be a declaration of war ok we're not where let's go here let's get off war here

because i really don't think there's much of a debate on the war anyway as we've had more of a debate over war here than there was last night as i was citing. then let's say it wasn't for a trade here and i mentioned at the beginning and i want to ask you this question did richard. why doesn't the president mention some sort of when he's in these debates because he knows that romney's not going to turn around and attack him on something like t.p. because romney supports that stuff it seems like such commonsense political move smart move right there and i get that sam i think i'm pretty sure that the campaign had an argument about that i think what the president's trying to project is a distinction between him and romney going to what he's going to do and not as there are negatives on that rob that's why the commercials are for that to be advertising for the president last night talked about what how his plan differ from the romney how we're going to hire one hundred thousand teachers in the classroom how we're going to create a million manufacturing jobs here in america and that's the argument of undecided voters and. the american voters want to hear how we're going to rebuild this country what the kerning

a million jobs by embracing more free trade is not not exactly the right idea but is anyone worried that both parties just like they've embraced war have seemed to brace these free trade policies that are causing fifty thousand we like. everyone i mean the military to hold on there's a distinction let me do what i do for the very latest let's write about was about as i'm talking about last night the president is so upset that china is going to sell us cheap tires like but why does he have little study licenses little's that you mentioned you know every day i'm talking about and massive trade agreements that are you pay every year here's a everybody supposed to supposedly there's this global warming thing that we need solar panels for and yet the president puts tariffs on solar panels only makes solar panels more expensive because he wants south america so your payroll company has to be able to protect his friends i want us all what i do to protect american industry like ok is that if the goal is global warming we should have cheap sold off i think i think we missed the great point that you just made you said thank you

a hold on i interrupted the caller talked about you know who cares about the tires i think you can say i like the tires that i do i do like the tires that. people and they throw it out and they don't work but the time is going to this country the fact the present for texting the american people from mass that's what you guys on if you're watching tyrant americans i know beyond your if you think for a minute that obama had the f.d.a. check out these chinese tires so they want to stop them they want to because they were unsafe it was because he's going to win ohio ok stop right marco to bring you in here because we're talking about some topics that were talked about and you mentioned one right off the bat there not a word on the latin american drug trade in our our drug war here in the united states that's fueling it absolutely you know we need to talk about the drug war this is a huge war we've talked about the afghanistan being our longest war in a different sense it's not our longest war this drug war has been going on easily since one nine hundred seventy since the controlled substances act the ridiculous scheduling of marijuana as a schedule one putting people in jail it's not just about the drug war it's about mass incarceration it's about

a lot of other issues that come with it the bottom line there is i don't think they want to talk about it i don't think that mitt romney wants to talk about it because i don't think that he's lockstep i think he's lockstep more with the party than the people on things like marijuana legalization and i have to admit i think this is an area that president obama a lot of people have said this is one area that we thought he was going to do something and he sort of floated some stuff at the end of his term but i thought he was going to do something on the drug or at least legalization of marijuana which would alleviate a lot of the tension early on so i think it's something i want to stay away with from till after the election i think that's a good point i think we'll see but i think we'll see the president take it up in the next term but beyond that when we see the president do on the drug war as he got rid of they got rid of the minatory the mandatory minimums for crack cocaine versus go first to regular cocaine which is a big step in stopping mass incarceration the problem that we have mass incarceration is countries private prisons that fund republican candidates like jan brewer who is wanted by a private prison where when you when you actually checks your card or you don't pass the card check it's a new prison was three hundred dollars

a night to stay there and i think once we get money out of our politics and we stop republicans from taking money from private prisons will be that will make a step in the right direction to solve a massive course. racial problems that doesn't mean we should legalize drugs and some of us who are parents and some of us are concerned about kids want to keep these things off the streets which drugs of them i don't know but look at all we want to keep we have the rest our last twenty dollars should read to keep elite like coke and marijuana illegal in off the streets is dollars well spent with what are less i don't want kids smoking pot and coke so ok fair enough so this was the first time in three debates that global warming wasn't mentioned since nineteen eighty eight we have just ten seconds left does that mean the oil barons and their fuel but you know fossil fuel funded scientist have one yes or no i don't think anybody believes in global warming anymore well they know they have no one and if there's some global warming i think it's a nuanced topic then hard to get into soundbites i think they just stayed away from it thanks no one believes in global warming except every scientist neil richard

martin thanks so much they can make sense because they have after the break as usual ohio is playing a central role in the election this year and could make or break the election for either president obama or mitt romney so of course republicans are going to try to steal it right. this presidential election is not just about obama and romney there are also third party candidates on the ticket and they will influence its outcome see a debate among this nation's major third party candidates right here on our team like over twenty third.

i will fight all that i also promised. but every single day on earth you. take a. moment. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything is ok. i'm tom harvey welcome to the big picture.