with the barter law on the book take a lesson these are not new laws these laws have been on the books for quite some time you can look at topic for twenty or publication five twenty five that really speaks to bartering but with the vicissitudes of the economy. the internal revenue service is really looking very closely at these exchanges and i know a lot of people say a fair exchange is no robbery for our purposes it may in fact be a taxable event so for let's say legal purposes they may not look into the sufficiency of an exchange but for tax purposes it's becoming a very closely scrutinized issue and for our audience explain what fair exchange what you mean when you say that well that would be if let's say i traded you something that had a monetary value of one hundred dollars and you gave me something that had the value of two thousand dollars ok would be

a an even exchange now for legal purposes it may be a valid exchange but it could very well be a taxable event particularly for you receiving this item that is worth two thousand dollars now when you only had if you were to look at it as skin in the game one hundred dollars so the remaining you know one thousand five hundred dollars could be taxed as regular income ok and this is all we've been the case but now the i.r.s. is starting to enforce it or go after people that are not doing this more often all this right they're certainly looking at it much more closely and it is a regular question that is coming up with frequency an audit and examinations because when you engage in a barter transaction you're required by law to file what's called the ten b. and if you don't. do that you are running afoul of our existing tax laws now if you

look at the example that i just gave you lauren where it is a disproportionate exchange and you do not report that you could even be criminally prosecuted under internal revenue code seventy two zero one they could make an argument and it might be a very good argument that you were attempting to evade or defeat a tax because there's a lot of people who just don't seem to want to accept that when you exchange one item for another you may create a tax liability ok so now let's take this one step further and what does this have to do in your view with precious metals well that's a really interesting thing you see you have people who are by collecting perhaps even hoarding gold when they are making these exchanges or let's say in the event we had a economic disaster or hyperinflation of some stripe which could be brought about

by any number of reasons now that gold is something that is or silver is something of real value whereas the dollar is just backed by a promise so let's say you have an example of hyperinflation and these are just you know hypothetical figures let's say a loaf of bread now is selling for two hundred dollars and you were to exchange. one hundred dollars worth of gold real value for that two hundred dollar loaf of bread you will have a taxable event of one hundred dollars and that's something that should be of great concern to people who are in this forum who are collecting these precious metals additionally when they swap in exchange they are required to file these ten ninety nine is you know i'm a tax practitioner my experience is a lot of people are deficient in this filing requirement because they are. they

want to be under the radar if the government were to really ratchet up perhaps put tremendous pressure on the providers of these coins and bullion and certificates and such they perhaps could go after them very much like they're going after the foreign banking right now maybe open up a window for a limited immunity so people will now turn themselves in voluntary disclosure program and then after that it's imagine it would fall like dominoes ok so a couple things i want to get into is that first do you see any evidence that the i.r.s. is looking into this at all what you're describing with precious metals and and not sort of thing going after it in the same way that they've gone after foreign banks do you see any evidence yet or this is an idea of what could be down the pipeline if a number of things happen well there certainly is a degree of conjecture to what i'm saying however there is a recent case where an individual who was involved in some unrelated tax crimes was

forced in fact to sell approximately eighty thousand dollars worth of gold coins and immediately tender that money over to the service it also triggered a significant taxable event just because he paid the government this money did not mean he was got any sort of tax abatement so let's say he purchased this gold hypothetically again at three hundred dollars an ounce and now it is appreciated too you know over two thousand dollars an ounce he had to pay taxes on the difference that case just played out only a few months ago ok so now if you follow the tax law when you when you file all the paperwork that you're supposed to do in regards to anything that you're doing with your precious metals everything is fine right this is just for people that are evading that you know that's very true but it also raises some very gray area questions for instance a lot of people keep their precious metals. abroad and the law is not

entirely clear on disclosure of what you have than what you don't have and obviously many people wish to remain anonymous the way it used to be with swiss banks and such and now we see that these banks are cooperating with the federal government and people who are not turning themselves in are subject to some very very heavy handed penalties and this is something that i think is most certainly on the radar and that we're going to see coming in the next coming months and in the you know the immediate future this is very interesting and then also one step further why do you see anything that would indicate any kind of reason to believe there would ever be confiscation by the government of precious metals as we saw in one nine hundred thirty three when the government confiscated most of everybody's gold well it also happened in one nine hundred seventeen and we do have good legal precedents for it let me pause

a scenario and it medically this too is conjecture but it's not outside of the ambit of possibility let's say we were to have a catastrophe that eclipsed katrina whether it be a detonation of a dirty bomb or a nuclear event or a crop failure or a sudden and terrible loss of fifty percent of our oil and all of a sudden now the dollar really has no value you can walk with a handful of dollars into a store and no amounts to trade well the government needs to shore up support in that and they can't have a competing currency for instance silver or gold or something with a real value. undermining their interests when such an event like that happens and there's two provisions both for during the war and one for non-war purposes the government certainly could and has. done before take your private possession make

it their own that whether or not you're compensated for it or how much you're compensated for it remains to be seen but i don't think it's unrealistic additionally lauren you have several supreme court justices right now who are on the record as saying they will look and consider and weigh far and wall when crafting their decisions you know in australia they had a law on the books until nine hundred seventy seven saying they could take physically take your gold and give you their paper dollars in exchange whether you wanted to accept it or not and they only suspended that law they never abolished it they never repealed it so i don't think it's an unrealistic event that could happen ok and just real quickly before we go short of a hyper inflationary scenario where people are trying to do actual business with gold and use that as money short of

a scenario where government is going to confiscate precious metals because there's a disaster do you think there are concerns is what i'm hearing that people that own gold actually need to be considering about in terms of the way that the i.r.s. is looking at gold or maybe increasingly changing the way that it wants people to deal with and report their gold holdings i do i think it is falling under closer scrutiny on a regular and daily basis and i would imagine that these pen gender i'm sore involved in raising the maximum amount of taxes and profit or whatever you want to call it for the government we're looking at this as one of the sweetest plums of all there you have it that was david selig federal tax practitioner for selling and associates. and still ahead we'll talk to job oh man about the war on whistleblowers but today focus on a whistleblower without actually in the government good graces and why the i.r.s.

is involved but first your closing market numbers.

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iran tight rope pushing china and russia as occupy anger spreads the two parties still dictate will there be change this election a close guy every day to november fifth on artsy. more news today violence is once again fled up the phone these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. china operations are all day. welcome back sticking to taxes that the foreign account tax compliance act is

slated to go into effect in a few months now why well an aide to senator max baucus the senate finance committee chairman who sponsored the two thousand and bill was quoted in the wall street journal saying foreign tax evasion is a drain on the federal budget worth tens of billions of dollars and it puts an unfair burden on law abiding american taxpayers to fill that gap however that arguably puts an unfair burden on banks all over the world who've had to cough major money for compliance forms reports it could cost financial institutions one hundred million dollars in compliance and as the wall street journal reports banks risk a penalty equivalent to thirty percent of a bank's u.s. income if just one person is over looked into of course the smaller the bank the harder it's hit now the unintended consequence is now many foreign banks don't want to deal with u.s.

citizens at all and according to reports ex-pats are unable to open accounts or they're getting letters in the mail saying their accounts have been closed and they're increasingly going as far as to settle their tax bill with uncle sam once and for all and renounce their u.s. citizenship and while some have meanwhile accuse the obama administration of engaging in a war on whistleblowers on the contrary being a whistleblower for the i.r.s. appears to pay off quite handsomely in this whistleblower dynamic is something i spoke about recently with daily reckoning managing editor jill bowman take a look when of course famous example that many people cover and talk about is bradley manning who exposed the military's. secrets and he was awarded with solitary confinement however you have another was a blower that you write about this happened about a month ago we had bradley burke and feld who wow he was a whistleblower and he was awarded one hundred million dollars the difference is that he gave the government information that helped them find the information of

more than four thousand americans with swiss bank accounts at u.b.s. so why do you think there is a lesson from these two stories and what do you think that lesson is. well that there was great fun into. this how to bradley's and as far as whistleblowers was one of those convenient sort of arguments that describe really work what the true feeling of the state of the government whether it's obama or romney or whoever is currently occupying that. down and should see in the belly of the beast into the sea. it's that it was one of those examples that just said hey this is clearly whose side we're on so as you mention when one individual comes to the aid of the state. to the detriment of the private information of product lines private citizens that are going about their business then you know over certain this guy's

water one hundred million dollars plus check i mean this is this is obscene. at the same time when you know somebody comes out in opposition to the government and remember this is the case of grover the manning was in a case of. a military soldier divulging information to the iraqi population or to the afghan population i mean these or individuals know what's going on every day because it's you know they're going up at the sky wondering if they can be the next. what they were what he was really doing was disclosing information about the state to the american people. who are whether or not they voted for paying for this enormous military. expansion its military budget which is now seeing the united states occupy military bases in one hundred seventy countries around the world and. this is that this was just one

of those it's a tile in a much much larger mosaic of misery and destruction that the state is. subjecting individuals to not just us but all over the world yeah and with bradley burke and filled with that bradley this wasn't just helping this day this wasn't just a you this is the i r s two which is an agency that i've seen really expand its reach around the globe i mean the international banks have been upset with new regulations to put it very lightly i'm wondering if you think that the i.r.s. as expansion and its expanded reach has more to do with the fact that the government's broke and that the i.r.s. need to collect money or how much it has to do with a more general expansion and more general mission creep that has happened more broadly with the government whether we're talking about undeclared wars or spying

on citizens be a patriot act that just gets reinstated without much of a discussion by lawmakers. that's a good point you know i think it's probably a little of both but you know the i.r.s. is one of the one of the violent probably along with the t.s.a. and it's in the dear chosen well it's one of the violence but it's a good competition for worst agency state but there is probably something to do with the boston uncontrollable experience of. this state's. sixteen plus really dollars you mentioned i think this is. you know this is kind of the haymakers strategy. we see with boxes when they're kind of being they're going to be knocked around a little bit they're kind of getting desperate people are starting to realize that geez are. you know this study is to realize hey i don't think that we are as free as that you know as we're told that we are. and when i start looking for some

. you know. so there's a model alternatives that don't involve a republican or a or a democratic super hero ok so i think the state is in sort of what we're going to see is a loss clutches and we're going to see. you know as the as far as default sent and trying to actual crisis upcoming i think we're going to see this brought it to much much higher relief ok and real quickly before we go you measure the t.s.a. so i just have to ask you're in argentina you have a great story i'm told what can argentinean states. americans who just go like to the slot or through those t.s.a. body scanners. well if you know what to say you don't want to be making any sudden movements. in the in lines in airports in the united states but yeah i did have a friend e-mail me

a little anecdote which i thought was rather amusing recently he was on his way from new zealand coming in through the customs here it is a sample i'm going to say descent it's you know this is this is kind of typical of the way that public affairs are conducted down here where the customs officials were were drastically undermanned you know to use another state that is that is broken and will soon be realized to such so they didn't have the manpower to be able to you know to man all the scanners and after a few seven four seventh's flew into lines go particularly long. and then when i was a process these people the. well you can eat. five hundred times since basically storm to get. through the other side i mean this is something that you would absolutely not see in the united states. but it's part of those things

where. it's going to eventually do you into chinese descent to you know it's kind of the you know the american credit card if countries around the world that are internet credit is to the united states start realizing the very dire financial situation that the united states government is in. and you know just don't show up for that next going to action and you know you're going to see very very drastic cuts to public services in the united states and then if as job i'm in says u.s. government spending really has to be cut then maybe we'll see those argentine style lines at the t.s.a. that was joel bowman managing editor for the daily reckoning.

all right let's wrap up with loose change dimitri co phoenix how many times you think you've been google dimitri shirtless. i hope money talks well. well boy i've got a story for you because this really shows where america's priorities are these days v.p. a presidential candidate paul ryan has been one of the top trending stories on google but it is not because of politics. people googling to paul ryan the new york times campaign blog says the term paul ryan shirtless is google that nine times more often that paul ryan budget. how is that for caring about the nation's finances in the grand plans in order to balance the budget but also i mean what's really special this happened when obama was president to that show the pictures from hawaii yeah he wanted to do that and like i don't really get

it was the big deal about paul ryan's body i know this isn't a this isn't the thing that we're going for here but that just shows how much people don't care about the budget that paul ryan shirtless is that much more scintillating and you contend that i mean when he's like obviously not you know margaret. it says a lot about what you like or cares about you like that i've noticed since i've moved. from the only hollywood for unattractive otherwise qualified human beings who are people who don't deserve to have any spotlight shined on them get plenty of it and like all these people who are looking for media coverage or exposure or get in the paper or press coverage like paul ryan like p.m.g. who is you can use like brad pitt like lifting weights as you think is like arnold schwarzenegger's and that is what the real you know this is like ok what i've done vacation. is. a lifting for time magazine what was were i draw the line and i were joking because it led to the thing is that it

wasn't however i do want to point out that there are other options that don't often get covered however there is a third party candidate debate that r.t. is broadcasting tomorrow or tonight i believe and i just thought it was quite interesting to look at some of the third party candidates what they say about what they would do for the budget and looking at project vote smart political courage tests for all of these candidates for the justice party the green party the libertarian party the constitution party one thing i know they all have in common do you support reducing defense spending to balance the budget all yes i guess that's why they will always see these be their party candidates because that doesn't isn't going to. we're going to answer what are you in are we going to see what they look at with their shirt off that isn't important to your johnson or with a shirt off i'd like to know that the like someone i'm interested maybe if there was a public interest in that we would see more headway made in the mainstream by these

third party candidates better they should be doing see that's the thing that's a big mistake that your johnson has done he hasn't actually he should too should streak make it across the white house lawn there you go you want to get press coverage america then that's your best oh yes that's the best we've got wrong you should be running around waiting for the capitol building go straight and then you'll be invited to participate in the presidential nomination of the a.b.c. all right we'll leave it there for now because that's all we have time for thank you so much for watching and be sure to come back tomorrow and in the meantime you know you can follow me on twitter out lauren lyster you can like our facebook page it's right there give us feedback catch and he shows you missed it you tube dot com slash capital account all respond on friday plus you can see it's an h.d. on hulu and from everyone here thank you so much for watching and have a great night.

for sure is that so much of. which of course is right on the. candidates probably can mitt romney revealed little major difference between the two in their approaches to security and foreign affairs many clean. sheets good lumber tour. was easy to build on its most sophisticated robot which on fortunately doesn't give a darn about anything tunes mission to teach creation why it should care about humans and. this is why you should want your only dog. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so silly you think you understand it and then you. you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you. are welcome to the big picture.

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