this is a volunteer for years and you'll find that most health of the kids are focused more on today's consequences of massive dollars behind marketing junk food from food and beverage rather than whatever unintended consequence is just talking about i don't think there's any negative unintended consequences of getting an hour of exercise a day course making healthier food i was talking about well and you know not to you know that it wasn't going to go ahead. but when you talk what michelle obama has done is positioned herself as first mom in chief and i think as a physician and as a mother i applaud that because what she has done is added a very commonsense approach to this but if we get back to the original topic and talk about fat taxes i think first of all people need to understand what a fat tax is first of all there's a great misperception that a fat tax is a tax on fat people and that's not what we're talking about what we're talking about is not using a tax as a punitive measure but using

a tax on foods that add no value to our nutritional scope and our nutritional intake as a motivational factor and yes what michelle obama is doing with the let's move campaign is motivational the tax adds a further motivation because when people are confronted with a choice between doing what's good for their waistline versus what's good for their wallet they're going to choose what's good for their wallet and what we need to understand as a society is that we need to separate the public health health motivations from the increasing tax revenue motivations and say ok let's use these sin taxes as it wore on foods which absolutely had no nutritional value and then let's progress to something like they did in denmark were considering a fat tax on saturated fat and we saw lots of failures in that tax because it wasn't really well thought out but i think we can learn a lot more from our failures than our successes do. if you want to jump in there go

right ahead i think we can learn yeah i think we can learn thank you i think we learned that the we learned that the fat tax it and yes it's not a tax on fat people it's a tax on foods that certain people don't well essentially this is a tax on foundational isn't it really let's be honest it is a tax you know it's a tax on everybody it's a well no it's a tax on it and i did that i decided to give you a very right like. ok you just may have different. issues point sorry for jumping in jeff go ahead. thank you it is a tax on everybody it is a tax on very thin people who exercise a lot and might occasionally want to enjoy a coca-cola you're taxing them too this is a a really bad idea to solve a complex problem you know we've got the first lady doing very reasonable things and then you've got people way out in the left who saying that the obama administration is too far to the right that should tell you where maybe

a reasonable approach is down the middle yes i from the right indorsing most of what the first lady has done you've got people in the very far left trying to control how we live with fat taxes with limiting advertising they're against marketing the people who are pushing these taxes and me said it very directly or against corporations the first lady has decided we need to work together with corporations work with everybody everyone has to see to take. care why can't i mean i didn't follow it. was going to be your first of all i can't imagine i can't imagine what it would mean to be against corporations i have pro-capitalism and i think everyone when you are make a buck but i don't think that i don't think that adults should target children it's inappropriate for someone to try to have a direct relationship with someone's child who is not their own and that's what you see marketers are adults children or children i don't think that we should have

adult marketers trying to establish his direct relationships and influence the behavior of children that's inappropriate durbin debating that since the carter administration so i'm absolutely against marketing to children but i think that we can even tell you about us. here for state tax was quite broad the tax is quite broad in denmark it went after raw ingredients and i think that that was a move to far butter cheese milk having to pay seventy five extra cents on a pound of butter is a bit much when you and stead go after went down it was talking about earlier the ubiquitous. not essential products so chips donuts cookies cupcakes things like that being tax i think that even though even more sense and it's a shame in denmark rather than modifying the tax they're now saying let's abandon it completely and let's not look at sugar and i hope that the pendulum will swing back and they'll come up with a more moderate effort then they could join a jumping ahead yeah and what i want to emphasize here is that doctors in general

are in favor of these taxes and doctors represent the full political spectrum as far as i'm concerned this is not a political issue this is a public health issue and we need to be very clear about obesity in our health care costs have skyrocketed i mean he's talking about about targeting children we know that when healthy behaviors a started in children they become healthier adults we also know that teenagers are much more price sensitive when making decisions this is a regressive tell that's all true people are opposed to that for that basis but the fact is and a regressive tax is one that disparate proportionally affects people with lower discretionary income but i would like to argue the opposite position and that is that it disproportionately benefits people with less proport discretionary income we know that is a general american so you know many turn away and eleven percent no doubt i would think that you. know you could you know that. it's going to lead percent

of their grocery bills on beverages and that's not counting milk milk is in the dairy category so right off the bat i can cut everybody's grocery bill by saying you don't need to drink you're going to have rich products ok you've got to go to the break yes. come on jeff go ahead. this is such a paternity list approach approach that we can change how eternally live like like like we just. maternalistic paternalistic this is you know in america that's not the way we do things we want to encourage people to make better decisions give them better choices make healthy decisions easier but not change how people live that's a different world view we've got here ok now we do need to change how people live and we have to you reckon if we did it with some ok just we've done it with we even did it with soda in the one nine hundred seventy s. in terms of putting a deposit fee on soda bottles to encourage recycling and now recycling is part of

our culture the fact is over thirty state anyone i have soda taxes me jump in my question my question for my question for jeff is that i agree people adults should be allowed to make whatever decision they want about their own body however right now we all as a society are picking up that tab if he wants to continue having adults make all the decisions they want about themselves how is he recommending they cover those costs because right now we all jump ahead and help cover those health care costs is he suggesting we allow them to continue to damage their bodies but also leave them without any health care support to deal with the resulting health consequences ok that's a very good place to go to a short break folks and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the fact that state or do. you believe we.

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as a. welcome back across the uk i'm sure my. you were talking about the fact times. ok jeff and i to go to your i'm a former smoker ok i smoked almost three packs a day now i quit for for health reasons but if i'd been living in the united states i would have quit for money reasons ok so what's the difference between food and tobacco. we could talk about the different for tween food and tobacco all day long because there are no we don't we don't have all day long so give me weekends are ok . well we we need food to live we don't need to back go to live so i mean that's like an easy way to separate yeah but ok our food i'm going to dance to them but obesity in children to their cereal recently kills me

exactly we're not denying that we're not denying that but if you are one of the major same concerns come on ladies let's go first go ahead. well let me first answer mimi's question from the break where she says we need to separate companies from communicating through marketing with children me forgets to that's not let. me finish hasn't even made the point yet go ahead maybe for me forget one or two very important people say what you want to do we talked about paternalistic or maternalistic she wants the government to supplant parents we haven't heard the word parents in this conversation except for the government maybe we have to talk about individual responsibility and we're talking about kids that's the role of parents and making sure that their children weren't how to digest marketing information responsibly there is a role for parents here that that you think is just you know you don't know the

name and even begin to do that till around age eight to twelve so children under that is allowed to have no business being targeted by adult marketers. jumping i'm quite confident right a parent quite confident that means that children don't drink soda and i can assure you my children don't drink soda or any sugary beverages either so the question is how do we really doesn't want us around other parents and getting back to michelle obama she said a beautiful example for our country and this first of all one way we do it is we talk about it we talk about the relationship between food and health but we get much more attention when we talk about the relationship between food and money so let's talk about some facts the fact is the average obese person in the united states accrues twenty five percent more health care costs than a normal weight person the fact is that our health care costs related to obesity now exceed our costs related to tobacco abuse and alcoholism the fact is we lead the world in the united states among having the highest percentage of obese adults

and children so something's not working we've got to make a change we've been talking about the health benefits tanning and normal weight for years as doctors now we've got to talk about the finance. benefits i can save a family of four thirty per cent off their grocery bills right off the top because most american families are eating thirty percent too much in terms of portion control i can save them an additional eleven i just. don't buy sugary we don't rely on all dairy it. jeff we go on with these arguments we can go on with these arguments all day long let's establish obesity is a very serious public health problem it affects the entire society the question today is whether the government ought to supplant parents whether the government ought to be making decisions for people by changing the cost of food you know i'm against is not an option issue. there's a difference between a decision and it is incentive it's a paternalistic ok it's

a me me me me and weight change and we've been so we've. been i am let me ask the question first ok on this program we've been told listen to parents ok but most parents are obese. well that's absolutely true this issue is about of preparedness even age five target that's when eating an exercise habit habits are established in body composition is established and many adults are not taking care of their own bodies not if they're obese already been there with a bit of arranging to do it they have a higher incidence of pregnancy problems higher incidence of delivery we even have a higher incidence of birth defects among we're not challengeable than of the o.p.'s so you have a full range of issues that society is picking up not to mention the toll on the children themselves they are un you know there are victims of this and innocent victims that need to be protected and we answer nobody have that obligation so when parents are failing to keep their children safe then we must we have to see id when

any of the indians and or a child you say we. part of do when you and i said what is it that we're ok jeff go ahead reply to me going if i could i could jump in just be clear when you say we as a society you mean the government i agree we as a society need to work together as the first lady is doing with you just you when you say you were talking eagerly you knew it was a. gun pointed to my mouth because i've heard her said i said we are never going to get elected i've never been to meetings to really want to speak up in our schools we need to speak up in our communities and yes the government we need to encourage the government to help protect children as we do in a police force as we do in child services anything apart like building should be a safe environment for a child jeff and i when the moderate opposition vironment for children done it could go ahead and i don't believe there is. i think there's two totally different sets of issues everything mimi says is correct and

everything just as is an interesting point of view but i think the it's not an if then proposition we all agree complement obesity is our number one health problem. and it has tremendous social and medical and financial cost to our society i'm saying the government should consider these taxes because the government needs to be a parent i'm saying parents need to be parents doctors need to get the word out and media people need to get the word out but the government should consider these taxes because the government is picking up the price tag that's a totally different issue about the motivational aspects here and again as a physician i think we need to celebrate out in the public however getting and i said i'm sure i mean as an issue what is your personal choice as. though you've said i want to figure out how to pay for that jeff go ahead on the day of the position you don't like a done as a physician you probably also know if you're arguing that because food puts

a cost on society we ought to have a tax on it just like we've had tobacco taxes you know good and well but the government has had less discipline than parents and children alike and spending that money the right way to baguio taxes have gone up that's not true and there's just i don't know the money and they really don't usually get it i think because you're a question of the way and. the basis of your. the basis of your argument is we need more we need to return that money back to the government but we know from real data they have to say that they were never an issue of what we should do with their taxes so that's a great question and here is what i think we should do with that tax revenue and if we look at denmark which is a real life example they generated two hundred twenty million dollars in tax revenue from their fat tax in one year and just remember for an american audience for example denmark is the size and population of the city of miami or the state of wisconsin all right so the issue is what to do with that tax revenue was also a problem with the denmark model it just went to the general government coffers i

would like to see and professor brownlee who raised this issue in the media in the one nine hundred ninety s. proposed i would like to see those tax monies raised from these sin taxes used to subsidize foods that are healthy like that stumbles or used to redress if you would like but in the real world you've got. we've got us data we've got us a major government really and we need. all of you are experts here you've shown that ok but if i go to mimi what do you do when a society is boarded with propaganda to eat garbage how do you stop that. yeah it's really quite tough one as you know and i've said before i'm against marketing to children i think we've got to call the question on that also it is a constant onslaught of messages to eat more and eat unhealthy foods and i love that we were occasionally accused of being

a food nanny i believe there's two types of food nannies those of us who don't really have a profit motivation and would prefer people eat healthier and have healthy lives and those who are food nannies who have a profit motivation to shove more food down your throat every minute of the day those kind of nannies are having a detrimental effect on our entire population and again the price tag associated with that is a huge problem for all of us to address and if three quarters of our health problems are due to our lifestyle choices we can no longer ignore this and pretend that the government can't get involved government is involved the government is involved with food pricing the government is involved with subsidies and the government is involved with paying a big portion of this health care price tag the government and that price tag means all of us the government isn't some abstract concept it's our taxes paying for people's personal choices and that's a problem gage if you want to reply that i would love to thank you for the

opportunity if we had if we've learned anything from the tobacco wars you hear language like mimi's where food companies are shoving food down your throat ok we've learned something from that which is you can't have wars you can't demonize industry have industry fight back you need to work together to come up with solutions the first lady's campaign let's move how. would you work with are you telling people buy less of your product as a capitalist why would they want to do that. movie industry well do you guys know you know there's a will and if you are going to play. he's always been a serious point. the first lady has worked with bird's eye to have more marketing to make fruits and vegetables more appealing to children these are ways wal-mart has worked together with the first lady to have lower calories lower calorie choices more apollo to bowl to children there are ways to work together with industry to actually make good as i agree with you and working with the women you

know reading well wait i agree with you jeff that working with industry those are good examples of incremental change but there's no working with end of story where the coca-cola is in the patsies are going to say your right so does bad all children should be doing drinking water for has low fat i disagree with him every night you know you can see where do you want to shut him down i want to show them around here tonight is not i know i don't i never should you know anybody and what about a business that's where you are if you really are you know they don't like staring at the program give her the last word thirty seconds companies like if you look at companies like coca-cola and pepsi they have responded to health initiatives most of those companies and other beverage companies have huge bottled water businesses if you look at how companies and corporate america respond there is a bigger and right in energy during a sense for straight las there formulations across that i write for experience to be i think voice i don't thank you very much many thanks today to my guests in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and

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